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Goodbye Jesus

Living without absolution


diggindiddy

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Hello everyone. It's been a while. I've been doing great (thanks to the great support you have all given me 1 year ago when I started deconverting), but i'm going through a difficult period. I have been working in therapy and alone on my self-image, and I think that some dark shit that were wandering below the surface have abruptly bursted out. I started feeling childhood-strength like feelings of self hate, and I am very, very depressed. I can't do anything around the house, I have cooked only once in 10 days, nothing appeals to me, everything other than lying down feels like hardcore cardio training. It's like everything in me, body and psychism, is shouting at me real loud "You will deal with this shit, like, NOW".

 

I think that one of the things that give me a particular hard time is that nobody ever teach me how to live with your mistakes. In my family, if somebody ever upset you, you have to forgive. It's mandatory, because if you don't forgive, god will not forgive you either and you will burn in hell. The person asking for your forgiveness or apologizing is not even required, I was educated believing that holding a gruge, for any reason, was for some reason even more horrible that anything that could ever have been done to me. I grew up being scared of my anger, because it was something that could get me to hell. Maybe my family is some kind of extreme with that, I don't know... but I know that we were not allowed to stay mad for any reason, and if somebody apologizes, we are not allowed to ever, EVER, talk again about it and make the person feel guilty.

 

This has been an issue with my companion, because he was not educated like that. When I screw up, he stays mad at me for as long as he feels like it. He waits for his anger to tone down and forgives me only after that. And he remembers... well, what feels to me like EVERYTHING. He sometimes talks to me again of things that happened like ten years ago and just by remembering, he seems mad again. I know that this is a normal behaviour for a normal human being. That is how emotions work, when you are not religiously brain washed to be scared of them and making them go away. I is entiteled to remember some particularly big screw up that embarrassed him and ruined his week-end, even if it is ten years ago. He is not a bad person by not making his anger go away and forgiving me right on the spot. Now that I am not a christian anymore, I get that a lot better. It's just how the normal person is, and I understand it.

 

My problem is, I can't handle it.

 

I simply don't know how to manage that. I was raised with the idea that if I ever do anything wrong and say "sorry", nobody would ever be mad at me again and never talk to me about it. My screw up would disappear in the magic blood of the perfect christ and it would be like it never happened. I don't know how to handle a life without absolution. I don't know how to deal with people who can suddenly remember something that you did that hurt them a lot and remind you about it. I feel like crap every day. Sometimes I even fantasize about living alone, away from my loving and supportive companion, just because he dares remember my mistakes and everytime he does, I can't handle it.

 

I feel like a stupid child who cannot handle his mommy being angry. Except my mommy was never angry at me... never like that... she was not allowed to. Once again, I have to learn to do something that somebody should have teached me long before I had my first period. If only I have not been raised by an anxiety-driven christian woman who was also raised by an even more anxiety-driven christian woman before that... maybe I would know better.

 

How do I cope with that ? How do I learn to take responsibility of what I did, without having thoughts of hurting myself or exiling into miserable loneliness ? I feel like I miss the manual for that. Everybody keeps telling me that I am a good person, but I cannot see that now. All I can see is all the mistakes I ever did and I don't know how to process these memories. All I can feel is this crushing guilt, regrets of all the things I should(n't) have say or done. Shit, when my deconversion started, I used to feel globally less guilt and it was fucking amazing. I never thought this backfire would come and hit me. Where do I start ? How do I learn what I don't know ? What am I missing ?

 

Thank you for having read this long litany. It means a lot to me and any advice is welcome.

XXX

DD

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Hey DD :kiss:

 

To be honest it seems unfair to me that your hubby keeps reminding you of the old mistakes. What is he hoping to gain? It is not perfectly normal to keep doing that to other people's faces. Especially ones you want to stay in your life.

 

As for the guilt.... I was raised to fear my own anger too and to force myself to pretend my own emotions weren't there.

I only very recently understood that the person who most crucially needs my forgiveness is me. Earlier versions of me need it too, right from the age that I learned what guilt is, and also the past versions of me whom I resent for having done things that hurt me.

 

I understand the physical exhaustion, getting out of bed is a big thing on those days, eating something sensible even bigger. Try to keep up some kind of basic nutrition, but obviously you need to rest now. My own periods of being stuck in bed always end in me having an epiphany. I don't know if it's the same with you.

 

One thing you can try in case it helps you see better...you can look at a memory of yourself, and say out loud,

"I, DD of today, forgive you, younger DD. May you be free and may i be free". See where you get stuck, what is the resistance you feel. See if it is reasonable or exaggerated. I do that sometimes to see why I can't forgive me, it gives me new data to work with.

 

I hope this helps, hun.

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Hey DD :kiss:

 

To be honest it seems unfair to me that your hubby keeps reminding you of the old mistakes. What is he hoping to gain? It is not perfectly normal to keep doing that to other people's faces. Especially ones you want to stay in your life.

 

As for the guilt.... I was raised to fear my own anger too and to force myself to pretend my own emotions weren't there.

I only very recently understood that the person who most crucially needs my forgiveness is me. Earlier versions of me need it too, right from the age that I learned what guilt is, and also the past versions of me whom I resent for having done things that hurt me.

 

I understand the physical exhaustion, getting out of bed is a big thing on those days, eating something sensible even bigger. Try to keep up some kind of basic nutrition, but obviously you need to rest now. My own periods of being stuck in bed always end in me having an epiphany. I don't know if it's the same with you.

 

One thing you can try in case it helps you see better...you can look at a memory of yourself, and say out loud,

"I, DD of today, forgive you, younger DD. May you be free and may i be free". See where you get stuck, what is the resistance you feel. See if it is reasonable or exaggerated. I do that sometimes to see why I can't forgive me, it gives me new data to work with.

 

I hope this helps, hun.

 

Yes, it did help indeed, thanks. You made me realise that, for some reason, another aspect of my issue is that I don't seem to give to me the power to forgive myself. It's like it has to come from the outside, like I don't count. I feel the resistance you were talking about : if I think that my companion (or some other person, it's not only him, he's just the humain being I interact with the most since I stopped working) is mad at me, I am mad at myself. If I believe that he holds a grudge, I can't forgive myself. I have to wait on him, like only him can decide if I can stop feeling guilty or not.

 

Maybe in some weird and not very sane way, my mind has replaced god by my companion. Maybe the idea of being able to define my own rules was too much for me at some point, I had to give to somebody else the power to define me as bad or good again. See what I mean ? I don't feel like I have the right to say "ok, I get that you are (still) mad at me, but I'm not angry at myself (anymore)".

 

Thanks, you gave me a new thing to think about.

XXX

DD

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Excellent thinking DD! Right when you mentioned his behavior, I was thinking "That is a controlling behavior, not what a "normal" person would do."  And I've seen your reaction before in my wife, who grew up as a sensitive person with extremely rigid parents, so even a look from them would have her blaming herself for being stupid or wrong. Years with me have taught her how to stand up for herself and stand her ground as smart, genius level intelligent, and to not accept controlling behaviors from others. Christianity played a big role in her being the victim, since it teaches that believers should respect authority, that god could decide to unleash a shitstorm and he's right to do so regardless of what you think, and that death of self is central to pleasing god. It is an evil, pernicious belief that erodes the quality of life for millions of people.

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I think Yunea has given good advice, you need to learn to forgive yourself and have compassion for yourself, and for who you were before. We all all human and we make mistakes, it's part of life. However, we shouldn't let those mistakes destroy our self confidence in who we are. You need to give yourself the power to forgive  you instead of delegating it to others around you. When you do so, you are handing over the reins to them to determine how you feel about yourself. When this happens, they gain too much control and can actually begin to emotionally manipulate another person in unhealthy ways. 

 

 

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All I can do is echo what others have said. Yunea got it right from the get-go. I agree that forgiving yourself is very important, but I also agree that if your companion is constantly complaining about things in the distant past, then he has issues that he needs to deal with. Perhaps a good couples therapist could benefit you.

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It might be worth checking out this article: https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/friendship-20/201506/20-signs-your-partner-is-controlling

something that stuck out to me in your post is that you know it's "normal" for people to do something like what your partner does. I've realized that people who define what is normal for you are often trying to control/define your sense of normal and make you feel crazy. And since you may be the one with problems and you know your partner to be loving, it follows that you are the crazy one. Except- no!!  I was in a controlling relationship and now I am not. If that article gets you thinking, the next book to follow up with is "Why Does He Do That?" By Lundy Bancroft. Excellent book that gives insight into controlling men.  And sorry if that doesn't ring true on any level!!

 

  I understand the repressed feelings as well. My therapist gave me the book "Codependent No More" which has been a big help. I am getting better insight into what I am responsible for and what others are responsible for. On anger- other people can be angry and it doesn't mean I've done something wrong. I am not responsible for "fixing" other people's emotions. Just because others make me feel that I ought to be ashamed/feel guilty doesn't mean I have to be. My habit of picking on my self/self-torture is not my fault but I am responsible to learn to stop. And also that it's ok and normal to have a huge range of feelings. I think the key to not getting stuck is observing the feelings and letting them pass without beating yourself up about them. 

 

Also, it sounds like you may be depressed. I struggle with depression myself and an antidepressant has been a huge help!!!  Along with self-care. 

 

It sounds like you are really trying to gain insight into what's going on. I wish you the best!  Again, sorry if anything I wrote ends up being way off base. It's just what occurred to me based on my own experience. Take care-

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 7/8/2017 at 1:39 PM, diggindiddy said:

know that this is a normal behaviour for a normal human being.

 

No, I don't think that's normal at all. I agree with the other commenters here. Forgiving is more normal than not forgiving. Forgiveness isn't a Christian thing, it's a human thing. If you can let things slide that he does that you don't like, then he can do the same. Besides, who says the things he doesn't like are even justified! You have every bit as much right to be you as he does to be him!

 

It's also normal to stand up for yourself. Now that's something Christianity doesn't teach! You may very well overlook his habits that you don't care for, but don't overlook his being hard on you. Don't forgive his lack of forgiveness. Let him know he needs to cut it out.

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