To Hide, or Not to Hide

[whatisthisabout]

A lot of people I love are Christians. I understand that their desire to “save me” is coming from a place of ultimate kindness. However, it also feels smothering and offensive at times. I feel offended that I am automatically presumed to be the one that is wrong and in need of saving. It bothers me that my viewpoints are not given the space to be considered when I have spent YEARS of my life considering Christianity…reading books people have given me, watching videos, attending speaker events. Can you imagine giving a Christian a book about Atheism and asking them to consider it!? I feel like a Christian would likely think the devil is working through me and trying to sow the evil seeds of doubt.

        

I also didn’t realize just how much Atheists are despised and feared. I am not scary. I am actually quite mild. I am just a thinker, questioner, and have concluded that Christianity is not plausible after years of consideration.

 

I work near a city and ride the train to work. One time I was having a conversation with a friend about religion. I was talking about the Panopticon and how IMO god is like the guard, who may or may not be, at the center. My Christian friend responded to me with a simple unthoughtful “Well, that’s not how God is.” and someone on the train shouted out “AMEN!” I had no idea anyone else was listening, it totally surprised me. I love to read on the train and one morning I wanted to grab Dawkin’s “The God Delusion” but decided to leave it home. I thought about the previous incident, and about all the bizarre people I’ve seen on the train, and foresaw how reading this book on the train, with the title exposed on the cover, could potentially be dangerous.  

 

I told a dear family friend that I am an Atheist and simply don’t believe, that I can’t believe even though I’ve tried so hard to, because it doesn’t ring true for me. She started crying. And told me how sad this makes her. I didn’t expect her to cry and I realized how careful I need to be when telling people.

 

My aunt has spoken to other members of the family about me and her worry that I might not believe in god. She is distressed over it and doesn’t know what to do. She is the strongest believer in the family, the most involved, the most deeply convinced. I don’t want to hurt her by disappointing her. She is like a mother to me and once told me God promised her that all her children will be saved, including me. I can’t imagine her ever deconverting and I accept that. Sometimes I feel sad about the aspects of her life, her nature, which she has suffocated due to religion but ultimately it’s her choice and she is doing ok overall. I just wish I could express this part of myself to her more freely, but when I have gently tried I notice she either pulls away afterwards, or sends me home with Christian books to read. But lately, because I think she is realizing that she can’t “save me”, she’s gotten more passive aggressive and mocks my lack of belief or asserts her belief in a matter-of-fact way. I want her to accept me “as is” because if I die tomorrow, I will only ever have been who I am today. It is very unlikely I will ever become her best version of me…a married, Christian, family person. It’s just never felt like my path.

 

I feel like I am seen as flawed, incomplete, mislead, wrong, inferior. I realize now that MANY people see Atheists as morally devoid, lost, and even…evil. This really upsets me. I don’t want to be stereotyped as monstrous when I’m actually very kind and loving. I have a sense of right and wrong because I can think. And I would even say that my approach to right and wrong is a more fair approach because I see these concepts as malleable and changeable, which keeps me open-minded and considerate of challenging ideas. My perception of morality isn’t unchangeable, and I think that is a good thing.

 

I feel silenced. And I wonder if it’s safer/easier to be that way. Idk. I have a deep need to “be myself” to be accepted and loved for who I really am, but at what cost? Maybe I just can’t be my whole self with certain people. Maybe I need to “find my tribe” and only be open with other similar heathens : ) 

 

Do you hide your Atheism? Do you selectively reveal your beliefs? How do you deal with being stereotyped in such a negative, inaccurate way? If you’ve been open, how has it been for you?

 

Here is a brief definition of the Panopticon, which I referenced earlier:

The Panopticon is a type of institutional building designed by the English philosopher and social theorist Jeremy Benthamin the late 18th century. The concept of the design is to allow all (pan) inmates of an institution to be observed (-opticon) by a single watchman without the inmates being able to tell whether or not they are being watched. Although it is physically impossible for the single watchman to observe all cells at once, the fact that the inmates cannot know when they are being watched means that all inmates must act as though they are watched at all times, effectively controlling their own behaviour constantly.

[florduh]

And Christians like to pretend that it is THEY who are persecuted!

 

Are you as entitled as anyone else to your own opinions and conclusions? Are you an equal or a subservient?

 

Yes, certain people will be hurt/disappointed/angry when you disagree with them. That is their problem as you have done nothing wrong. They often use their "disappointment" as emotional manipulation; don't fall for it.

 

Remember when gays started coming out of the closet? It wasn't until then they started to get equal treatment and protection. Their battle isn't over, but much progress has been made. Non-believers are a significant part of society, but most don't come out of the closet because Mom or Aunt Agnes would have such a bad reaction to the news that someone close to them disagrees with them.

 

I say be honest and let everyone reap what they have sown.

[MOHO]

@whatisthisabout, @florduh,

 

This conversation struck a chord with me. As I have mentioned many times on this site I came out a couple years ago but had to kinda duck back inside due to family pressure and my need for them. I say "had to" but really I "CHOSE" to. And I regret it!

 

Mrs. MOHO and her adult son from a previous marriage (not living with us) REALLY know how to turn on the guilt, shame, disappointment, and disapproval as tools to manipulate. I don't think they are even fully aware of what they are doing as they are so indoctrinated, and have been observing other church members do this for so many years, that they probably think that this is normal behavior and not the abusive treatment that it is. 

 

@florduh is spot on. We need to be what we are and man up and act like it! If other folks don't' approve then that is THEIR problem. If they stop liking/loving/caring about is then we can find others. I would not look forward to that after 20 years of marriage but I'd feel free and happy in the long run.

 

I feel another coming out coming on. It's welling up inside me.

[buffettphan]

I feel as though I could have written your post!    I don't hide my atheism anymore, but I don't shout it from the rooftops either.  99.99% of my family and friends are christians, including DFH (DearFundyHubby), daughter and her entire family and inlaws, and my 85 year old mother.   My son thinks it's all BS, so his part of the family is sane (but not his inlaws)!   

 

If anyone chooses not to be around me because they don't like that I'm an atheist, I'm at the point in life (63 years old) that I say "fuck 'em" and to be honest, I intentionally avoid some of the more vocally abrasive christians simply because I can.  I skipped a family reunion this summer and caught all kinds of hell for doing so, but it felt great!  

 

Welcome to Ex-C!

 

[whatisthisabout]

 

And Christians like to pretend that it is THEY who are persecuted!

I was really taken aback the first I heard my aunt talk about Christians being persecuted. It seemed surreal. It was sad to see my aunt, who I love so much, say something so out of touch. 

 

 

 

Are you as entitled as anyone else to your own opinions and conclusions? Are you an equal or a subservient?

This is a really good point. It's hard being the lone voice of dissent at the table sometimes, but I should defend my right to my spot at the table. 

 

 

 

Yes, certain people will be hurt/disappointed/angry when you disagree with them. That is their problem as you have done nothing wrong. They often use their "disappointment" as emotional manipulation; don't fall for it.

It's true. I haven't done anything wrong. I have always been a critical thinker, it's a big part of who I am and why I am not a Christian. Nothing wrong with that at all.   

I remember one time, on a long drive, my aunt said to me "I feel like you think that your thoughts are better then mine". This was right at the beginning of the drive, around 5am and I hadn't even had coffee yet, talk about a sucker punch! Surprisingly (sarcasm) we had been recently talking about religion and I expressed to her some of the reasons I can't believe in god. I had told her that I would like to be able to believe (don't feel this way anymore) but I can't because certain things just don't make sense. During this conversation I also asked her if she ever, even once, doubted the existence of god....and you know what she told me?....she actually said...no. I was blown away. 

 

 

 

Remember when gays started coming out of the closet? It wasn't until then they started to get equal treatment and protection. Their battle isn't over, but much progress has been made. Non-believers are a significant part of society, but most don't come out of the closet because Mom or Aunt Agnes would have such a bad reaction to the news that someone close to them disagrees with them.

 

I say be honest and let everyone reap what they have sown.

My best friend is gay, he came out in the 60's. He said at that time there was a lot more fear and people had all kinds of exaggerated ideas about gay people including viewing them in the likeness of pedophiles and rapists. How scary it must have been for people to be themselves and be honest in a climate like that. But they were, which is so inspiring. 

[whatisthisabout]

 

@whatisthisabout, @florduh,

 

This conversation struck a chord with me. As I have mentioned many times on this site I came out a couple years ago but had to kinda duck back inside due to family pressure and my need for them. I say "had to" but really I "CHOSE" to. And I regret it!

Wow, I can relate. I feel like I overexposed myself to my family by expressing some of my viewpoints honestly and without reservation. My ideology doesn't fit in with their norms. I feel like I just need some space from them, today my aunt texted me a video of a 45 minute sermon....EYE ROLL!!!....I feel like the evangelizing will never stop. I may need to be firm and flat out say how I feel about god. What a task! I feel exhausted just thinking about it.

 

 

 

Mrs. MOHO and her adult son from a previous marriage (not living with us) REALLY know how to turn on the guilt, shame, disappointment, and disapproval as tools to manipulate. I don't think they are even fully aware of what they are doing as they are so indoctrinated, and have been observing other church members do this for so many years, that they probably think that this is normal behavior and not the abusive treatment that it is. 

I don't think they are even fully aware of what they are doing as they are so indoctrinated - this 100%. 

 

 

 

@florduh is spot on. We need to be what we are and man up and act like it! If other folks don't' approve then that is THEIR problem. If they stop liking/loving/caring about is then we can find others. I would not look forward to that after 20 years of marriage but I'd feel free and happy in the long run.

 

I feel another coming out coming on. It's welling up inside me.

I just feel like spending less time with my family. It's unappealing to be around anyone who is judging you as sub-par and trying to change you to be more like them. If they can't accept me and treat me well then I don't want to be there. It's the only logical conclusion. Thankfully, I live an hour and a half away. A friend suggested day trips and no sleep overs, I am going to try that out. 

 

I'm glad to hear you are feeling another coming out coming on, let yourself out! Lol

[whatisthisabout]

 

I don't hide my atheism anymore, but I don't shout it from the rooftops either.

I think this is the best approach.  

 

 

 

If anyone chooses not to be around me because they don't like that I'm an atheist, I'm at the point in life (63 years old) that I say "fuck 'em" and to be honest, I intentionally avoid some of the more vocally abrasive christians simply because I can.  I skipped a family reunion this summer and caught all kinds of hell for doing so, but it felt great!  

I'm at this point too, It just gets more and more unappealing. I want to be around people who make me feel comfortable and respected. 

 

 

 

Welcome to Ex-C!

 

thank you!