Jump to content
Goodbye Jesus

So If The Trust Was Broken...


Guest end3

Recommended Posts

Seems like if we were not indoctrinated into Christ, then we likely came there as a result of needing something....reformation, peace....trust.  If our relationship with Christ or the church then went bad, well, that would be a double whammy.  But the point would be, I'm not sure that would make the Christian concept any less valid.  I say this because we probably still go look for trust and fellowship and confirmation.....making that overall true.  Hence ExC, a place to restore the lost trust...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Super Moderator

I trust lots of people. I just don't trust their various beliefs in Christianity, Judaism, Islam or Scientology. They are well meaning, trustworthy people, but I couldn't share their beliefs even if I wanted to.

 

As far as I can tell, deciding on Christianity or similar belief as the Truth comes from social conditioning or the emotional hook. I know of no one who makes an intellectual decision for "revealed" religion, Christianity in particular.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

22 minutes ago, end3 said:

Seems like if we were not indoctrinated into Christ, then we likely came there as a result of needing something....reformation, peace....trust.  If our relationship with Christ or the church then went bad, well, that would be a double whammy.  But the point would be, I'm not sure that would make the Christian concept any less valid.  I say this because we probably still go look for trust and fellowship and confirmation.....making that overall true.  Hence ExC, a place to restore the lost trust...

 

For me Ex-C is nothing at all about restoring anything with the exception of my sanity - which xanity circumvented for a while.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I joined up because my (then) wife was a Christian. I quit because of the oppressive mind control. I come here because I'm a nerd that's too lazy to bowl.

 

The Christian life works great for some.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

58 minutes ago, MOHO said:

 

For me Ex-C is nothing at all about restoring anything with the exception of my sanity - which xanity circumvented for a while.

My point

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, end3 said:

Seems like if we were not indoctrinated into Christ, then we likely came there as a result of needing something....reformation, peace....trust.  If our relationship with Christ or the church then went bad, well, that would be a double whammy.  But the point would be, I'm not sure that would make the Christian concept any less valid.  I say this because we probably still go look for trust and fellowship and confirmation.....making that overall true.  Hence ExC, a place to restore the lost trust...

 

The facts (largely) caused me to stop trusting Jesus Christ, End.

 

It's impossible for me to un-know, un-learn and un-realize what I now know, have now learned and now realize. 

 

So, even if I came to Ex-C looking to trust others, that still wouldn't rewrite the facts and still wouldn't cause me to start trusting Jesus again.

 

 

 

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Super Moderator

Seems like if she had not molested by her dad, then she likely became a stripper as a result of needing something....intimacy, peace....trust.  If her relationship with men or the clients then went bad, well, that would be a double whammy.  But the point would be, I'm not sure that would make the Third Wave Feminism concept any less valid.

 

I couched your logic into different terms so that you could see how misinformed and misguided it is.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

Seems like if she had not molested by her dad, then she likely became a stripper as a result of needing something....intimacy, peace....trust.  If her relationship with men or the clients then went bad, well, that would be a double whammy.  But the point would be, I'm not sure that would make the Third Wave Feminism concept any less valid.

 

I couched your logic into different terms so that you could see how misinformed and misguided it is.

I don't believe the logic is the issue.  If you will look, the process is the same......the difference would be the participants. 

 

We still seek "rebirth" and caring relationships.  And as you have somewhat pointed out, perseverance, faith, and grace are essential items to our current dilemma.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, end3 said:

I don't believe the logic is the issue.  If you will look, the process is the same......the difference would be the participants. 

 

We still seek "rebirth" and caring relationships.  And as you have somewhat pointed out, perseverance, faith, and grace are essential items to our current dilemma.  

 

What humans seek (meaning, personal intimacy, belonging, caring relationships, etc.) can be well explained by our evolution.

 

There is no real need to attribute any of these things to supernatural causes or agencies.

 

Unless you want to confirm what you already believe by faith (and not evidence) about the supernatural.

 

Natural explanations for these things are quite sufficient.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

End: "If our relationship with Christ or the church then went bad, well, that would be a double whammy.  But the point would be, I'm not sure that would make the Christian concept any less valid. "

 

I dont understand. If our relationship with Christ went bad why would the Christian concept remain valid? Why do you feel the Christian concept is valid?

 

Unfortunately I think the Christian concept just isnt really analyzed  prior to one's indoctrination. And once you're in it you're afraid to analyze it so, after a while,  people who aren't really on fire for Jesus may just become emotionally inactive over Christianity or dump it altogether.

 

Humanity created the Christian concept and Christ too... so we're probably good on our own. :)

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Super Moderator
6 hours ago, end3 said:

I don't believe the logic is the issue.  If you will look, the process is the same......the difference would be the participants. 

 

We still seek "rebirth" and caring relationships.  And as you have somewhat pointed out, perseverance, faith, and grace are essential items to our current dilemma.  

The problem with the logic is that it simply feeds confirmation bias.  Every bad experience any woman has ever had with a man is "proof" to the third wavers that men are evil.  You're using the same logic here.  We all had "bad" experiences with the church, therefore christianity is true.  You sweeten the deal by throwing about words like "trust" and such; but that doesn't change this spade into a shovel.

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

49 minutes ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

The problem with the logic is that it simply feeds confirmation bias.  Every bad experience any woman has ever had with a man is "proof" to the third wavers that men are evil.  You're using the same logic here.  We all had "bad" experiences with the church, therefore christianity is true.  You sweeten the deal by throwing about words like "trust" and such; but that doesn't change this spade into a shovel.

 

 

50 minutes ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

The problem with the logic is that it simply feeds confirmation bias.  Every bad experience any woman has ever had with a man is "proof" to the third wavers that men are evil.  You're using the same logic here.  We all had "bad" experiences with the church, therefore christianity is true.  You sweeten the deal by throwing about words like "trust" and such; but that doesn't change this spade into a shovel.

 

Right, the millions of people that deal with this same scenario feeds the bias.  The discrepancy I see is attributing it to Christianity.  Regardless, as it sits, Christianity describes the human condition very well.   

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Super Moderator
3 minutes ago, end3 said:

 

Right, the millions of people that deal with this same scenario feeds the bias.  The discrepancy I see is attributing it to Christianity.  Regardless, as it sits, Christianity describes the human condition very well.   

It certainly describes the human condition as well as Third Wave Feminism describes masculinity.  Perhaps the reason that these issues are attributed to christianity is simply because christianity is flawed.  Keep in mind, a true free-thinker is open to the possibility that a "god" exists; we simply don't see any credible evidence.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, midniterider said:

End: "If our relationship with Christ or the church then went bad, well, that would be a double whammy.  But the point would be, I'm not sure that would make the Christian concept any less valid. "

 

I dont understand. If our relationship with Christ went bad why would the Christian concept remain valid? Why do you feel the Christian concept is valid?

 

Unfortunately I think the Christian concept just isnt really analyzed  prior to one's indoctrination. And once you're in it you're afraid to analyze it so, after a while,  people who aren't really on fire for Jesus may just become emotionally inactive over Christianity or dump it altogether.

 

Humanity created the Christian concept and Christ too... so we're probably good on our own. :)

I think M....Christ is the ultimate friend....graceful when we make a mistake but offering advice through the Bible and the Spirit.  The problem with the church is the human aspect as we are well aware.  I can readily understand the church aspect going bad, but place the human in charge of the relationship with Christ. 

 

I feel the concept is valid as there are so many examples of people wanting to restore their self-worth and their relationships with others regardless of the particular association group.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Super Moderator
1 hour ago, end3 said:

I think M....I am my own ultimate friend....graceful when I make a mistake but accepting advice from the people with whom I surround myself.  The problem with the church is the separation from the human aspect as we are well aware.  I can readily understand the church aspect going bad, but place the human in charge of the relationship with myself and with others. 

 

I feel the concept is valid as there are so many examples of people wanting to restore their self-worth and their relationships with others regardless of the particular association group.

 

Now it makes more sense to me.  

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Super Moderator
1 hour ago, end3 said:

Please quit editing my stuff.  Thanks.

No problem; didn't mean any offense.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

19 hours ago, end3 said:

I think M....Christ is the ultimate friend....graceful when we make a mistake but offering advice through the Bible and the Spirit.  The problem with the church is the human aspect as we are well aware.  I can readily understand the church aspect going bad, but place the human in charge of the relationship with Christ. 

 

I feel the concept is valid as there are so many examples of people wanting to restore their self-worth and their relationships with others regardless of the particular association group.

 

 

Well, I would agree that the problem with the church is the human aspect. Several crazy things I was told by a few church zealots was laughable while others were just wrong. The best way to be a Christian, imo would be to avoid church zealots, avoid churches, avoid pastors. I don't want to pay for someone's house of worship or their car payment or mortgage under the guise of 'tithing 10% to God.'

 

I don't want zealots to quote bible scriptures to me while they decide what "their" (not God's) wonderful plan for my life is going to be. Really, I don't need a wonderful life plan nor do I believe there is one. Especially if God isn't going to tell me what that plan is. If God's wonderful plan is being a scripture spewing robot then, no thanks.

 

I dont want to assimilate into a church culture. I can  populate my head with my own imaginary friends who are more fun and have similar interests to me. I can develop their personalities how I like. I think the names associated with Jesus come with too much Christian culture baggage to be used for my own belief system.

 

That's just me. I'm kinda weird and enjoy it. :)

 

  I'm glad you enjoy getting whatever you get from Christianity.

 

 

 

 

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Super Moderator
19 hours ago, end3 said:

The problem with the church is the human aspect as we are well aware.

Dude, it's ALL human, starting with the ancient writings politically selected by committee to make the Bible that is the basis of Christianity today.

 

People have issues with particular churches, doctrines, pastors and such, but I venture to say most who leave Christianity do so because the theology and the writings on which they are based are found lacking. Disliking a particular Christian or disagreeing with a particular pastor or being disenchanted with the behavior of some Christians is not a good reason to scrap the religion. 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 8/2/2017 at 8:10 PM, end3 said:

Seems like if we were not indoctrinated into Christ, then we likely came there as a result of needing something....reformation, peace....trust.  If our relationship with Christ or the church then went bad, well, that would be a double whammy.  But the point would be, I'm not sure that would make the Christian concept any less valid.  I say this because we probably still go look for trust and fellowship and confirmation.....making that overall true.  Hence ExC, a place to restore the lost trust...

 

What is this? Another spin on "you're just mad at the church?" that we've heard so many times from friends and family and even nosy strangers? 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On ‎8‎/‎2‎/‎2017 at 1:10 PM, end3 said:

Seems like if we were not indoctrinated into Christ, then we likely came there as a result of needing something....reformation, peace....trust.  If our relationship with Christ or the church then went bad, well, that would be a double whammy.  But the point would be, I'm not sure that would make the Christian concept any less valid.  I say this because we probably still go look for trust and fellowship and confirmation.....making that overall true.  Hence ExC, a place to restore the lost trust...

 

What do you mean by "indoctrinated" into Christ? 

 

I'm trying to understand what you are saying here. 

 

Thanks 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Super Moderator
35 minutes ago, ironhorse said:

 

What do you mean by "indoctrinated" into Christ? 

 

I'm trying to understand what you are saying here. 

 

Thanks 

 

Ask the holy spirit to guide you and give you understanding.  Seriously, y'all are both christians; how could you not understand each other if there is ONE god and ONE truth.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

Ask the holy spirit to guide you and give you understanding.  Seriously, y'all are both christians; how could you not understand each other if there is ONE god and ONE truth.

Raised in the church

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Super Moderator
59 minutes ago, end3 said:

Raised in the church

 

Raising the question: if there really were ONE god and ONE truth, shouldn't there also be only ONE church?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 minutes ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

Raising the question: if there really were ONE god and ONE truth, shouldn't there also be only ONE church?

 

There is only one Church. 

 

There are various denominations with different views on minor issues or cultural preferences, but believers in Christ are members of the universal Church. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Guidelines.