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Goodbye Jesus

Glad to be Back - reintroduction


Deva

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6 hours ago, SkipNChurch said:

Hi Deva, pleased to see you posting with this buncha scalliwags and other social square pegs/oblong hole sorts!

 

kevinL

Kevin and Florduh:  I am back but you know, I can only take so much. A little less drama, please.  But that goes with being a Moderator, as I am sure you know. But this place is like none other, and its home for me.  Its great, really.

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Hi Deva, good to see you again, it's been awhile. I was wondering where you'd gone. I joined this site a full four years after deconverting. But like you, I've got to say that being here has been much more helpful than I imagine therapy would be. It was entirely accidental that I found out there was a whole community based on the status of being a former Christian. I'm glad you're back, and I hope it's to stay for awhile!

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8 hours ago, Bhim said:

Hi Deva, good to see you again, it's been awhile. I was wondering where you'd gone. I joined this site a full four years after deconverting. But like you, I've got to say that being here has been much more helpful than I imagine therapy would be. It was entirely accidental that I found out there was a whole community based on the status of being a former Christian. I'm glad you're back, and I hope it's to stay for awhile!

 

Thank you Bhim! I remember you.

 

  I didn't leave for any reason such as getting into Christianity again, but that did happen a bit later.  After some major stress (hurricane threat last October and stuff going on at work) I started in with the catastrophic thinking that I am subject to, and began to think of going back to church.  I visited a Congregational Church that reminded me of my grandmother's Methodist Church and it did help to calm me down with that atmosphere. So, I joined it, but only stayed a short time. 

 

Then I started entertaining the notion of becoming Catholic, because I am a sacramentalist (one who can easily see the sacred in objects). I looked at some books and videos. Now, thankfully, that train of thought is gone.  When I am comfortable and have plenty to keep me busy I don't go off the rails like that.  I thought it would help to come back here and write when, or if, I get these ideas again.

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Welcome back Deva, I myself am a recent deconvert that has got a lot of help from this site. I noticed you joined our chat as well, stop by more often 😉

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14 hours ago, Deva said:

 

Thank you Bhim! I remember you.

 

  I didn't leave for any reason such as getting into Christianity again, but that did happen a bit later.  After some major stress (hurricane threat last October and stuff going on at work) I started in with the catastrophic thinking that I am subject to, and began to think of going back to church.  I visited a Congregational Church that reminded me of my grandmother's Methodist Church and it did help to calm me down with that atmosphere. So, I joined it, but only stayed a short time. 

 

Then I started entertaining the notion of becoming Catholic, because I am a sacramentalist (one who can easily see the sacred in objects). I looked at some books and videos. Now, thankfully, that train of thought is gone.  When I am comfortable and have plenty to keep me busy I don't go off the rails like that.  I thought it would help to come back here and write when, or if, I get these ideas again.

 

I can understand the desire to go back. Unlike you I didn't grow up with Christianity, so maybe the pull is weaker. But after returning to Hinduism, over the years I've remembered and re-encountered many of the things that drove me away in the first place. The embrace of pseudoscience, the lack of introspection, an absent moral center, and the generally foolish, disorganized nature of my native faith community all remind me of the things that were missing in Hinduism which I thought I would find in Christianity. Thus far I have yet to so much as step into a church. I regularly tell myself "you tried that, and it didn't work." However the desire to return is always there in the background, I suppose.

 

At the risk of mislabeling you or projecting my own thought process, might I suggest that some of us simply have a favorable predisposition towards the sacred and the liturgical. Just as you've considered Catholicism, I've often considered the prospect of being an Eastern Orthodox Christian (both before and after my deconversion). I don't believe in God, and I certainly don't believe in the vile character Jesus, but sometimes I feel it would be nice to be part of a religion I can take seriously. Alas, if the Reformed Baptist faith didn't satisfy whatever the heck it is I'm looking for, I doubt the Orthodox will do any better. It's a fortunate thing indeed that people like us have this place!

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On 8/17/2017 at 5:20 PM, Bhim said:

 

I can understand the desire to go back. Unlike you I didn't grow up with Christianity, so maybe the pull is weaker. But after returning to Hinduism, over the years I've remembered and re-encountered many of the things that drove me away in the first place. The embrace of pseudoscience, the lack of introspection, an absent moral center, and the generally foolish, disorganized nature of my native faith community all remind me of the things that were missing in Hinduism which I thought I would find in Christianity. Thus far I have yet to so much as step into a church. I regularly tell myself "you tried that, and it didn't work." However the desire to return is always there in the background, I suppose.

 

At the risk of mislabeling you or projecting my own thought process, might I suggest that some of us simply have a favorable predisposition towards the sacred and the liturgical. Just as you've considered Catholicism, I've often considered the prospect of being an Eastern Orthodox Christian (both before and after my deconversion). I don't believe in God, and I certainly don't believe in the vile character Jesus, but sometimes I feel it would be nice to be part of a religion I can take seriously. Alas, if the Reformed Baptist faith didn't satisfy whatever the heck it is I'm looking for, I doubt the Orthodox will do any better. It's a fortunate thing indeed that people like us have this place!

 

Having been in India I can realize how devout many Hindus are, and that they have been brought up to revere spirituality.

 

Looking forward to our future discussions with the realization that neither of us are bent toward confrontation, where logic rules, education is highly respected, and where religion and emotions are not involved :)

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Welcome back Deva! About the wavering with belief, I still find my mind pushing forward Christian songs unbidden. Odd how I can be out of the church for 10 years and still have it burble up, but that comes from 30 years of conditioning.

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On 8/19/2017 at 1:57 PM, pantheory said:

 

Having been in India I can realize how devout many Hindus are, and that they have been brought up to revere spirituality.

 

Looking forward to our future discussions with the realization that neither of us are bent toward confrontation, where logic rules, education is highly respected, and where religion and emotions are not involved :)

 

Heh, quite right! I don't think either of us seek to be overly argumentative. Probably why we can have friendly discussions in spite of our vastly different professional opinions concerning astrophysics. :)

 

Regarding the devotion of Hindus, this is an oft-cited attribute of my people. We are raised to see the divine in everything, and are ready to display obeisance to any god or philosophy upon our first encounter. It's a positive attribute in that we are tolerant of a wide variety of worldviews, and simultaneously a negative one in that it leads to an illogical and self-contradictory theology, and in that it precludes any fundamental, governing morality. Upon looking at my own religion critically, I'm better able to understand the reasons why I found the alternative of Christianity so attractive, but given my experience with the latter faith I now am more appropriately guarded against succumbing to it again.

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Thanks Bihm for your lengthy reply.

 

"........ our vastly different professional opinions concerning astrophysics."

 

I expect our opinions concerning astrophysics are very similar. But our opinions concerning theories in modern physics, I expect are very different. Mathematics generally aside, I am a non-believer for the most part, and expect that you are a mainstreamer for the most part.

 

Yeh, IMO Christianity is generally harmless, and sometimes does a lot of good concerning charitable works. But some sects of Christianity also promote anti-social behavior concerning non-believers, most promote proselytizing which can be socially annoying, and sometimes they can cause harm to the believer who follows the faith, as well as causing psychological problems for some or many individuals. Similar pros and cons could be said about most other religions, right?

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On 8/14/2017 at 3:32 PM, Deva said:

I joined this forum in 2006, after spending a couple years reading it and not posting anything.  Then after I started, I really got into it!  I guess I poured my heart out for about 8 years.  This site is better than any therapy I have ever been to (I have see three therapists so far).  I still struggle with Christianity and I probably always will. It is very hard to totally free oneself of fundamentalism when raised in it.  What I can say after all these years is that I at least know when I am going downhill.  That is, the old program in my brain kicks in, creating fear and then leading to the desire to re-enter some form of church where I can again feel safe, but boxed in and just following old programs that don't serve me.

 

I became a Buddhist in 2008.  The particular kind of Buddhism I got into was Tibetan, and I also have had difficulties with that, but I still think there is some truth in it, and it isn't oppressive to me like Christianity.  Buddha said to try his method out and not just blindly believe.

 

I have many old friends here, and I recently thought it just would be a good idea to reconnect with everyone.

 

I would say, don't struggle with BS, there are much more rewarding things to do.  Buddism is also a philosophy, for this reason its tenets can be considered as a positive. "...at least I know when I am going down hill, " Yes, to know oneself is of utmost importance. As the saying goes " “He who knows others is wise; he who knows himself is enlightened.”

 

Anyway, welcome back Deva, although I must admit I did not realize that you were missing in action since I spend most of my time here in the science vs. religion sub-forum.  Drop by sometime soon :)

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