Are We Still Just Believers But With No God?

[Blamtasticful]

Over the past year I feel like I have addressed something in the deconversion process that I and I feel many other Ex-Christians wouldn't even really have thought of as an issue in this new way of living. I am specifically referring to getting over the negative things that Christians have said about us as Christians and as Atheists.

 

The most obvious thing we tend to focus on are arguments for and against the existence of god. It is the easiest and most obvious choice after all. We spend so much time focusing on the external that I feel we never fully take the time to evaluate the internal and existential struggles that we all face.

 

As Christians we were taught that man is evil and born into sin and that the only hope we have is through a savior. We reject the savior but some times still feel like we need to be saved. We feel evil and unwanted and even dare I say worthless at times.

 

In response to Atheism as Christians we were taught that without god life has no meaning and no purpose. We were told that without god we might as well give ourselves over to riotous living in gluttony, drunkenness, and shallow relationships. 

 

Let me be clear. THIS IS NOT WHO I AM. And I want to suggest to you all that it doesn't need to be who you are as well. These ideas are not secular beliefs they are religious beliefs and I will not just accept them without being insanely critical of them. It is THEIR problem that they have a morality so shallow that the moment they would believe that god doesn't exist that they feel justified in giving into darkness and falling to the depths of depravity. Well that's not me. It is they who need to use god as Viagra to get their purpose and meaning going in the morning. It is they who see themselves as inherently a problem and a parasite rather than someone who has the same right as everyone to live in the best way that they can without a heap load of baggage debt and guilt weighing them down before they even got started. 

 

We are free. But more than that we are free and NOT crippled. These things we allow to cloud our thinking unconsciously on so many topics is nothing but a mind-forged manacle. Losing religion wasn't losing everything. No, I gained the opportunity to find my own way without religious imposition. So do you still hold any of these things to be true sometimes without even realizing it? Time to truly make yourself free of religion.

[florduh]

The entirety of Western culture teaches us that we are outsiders; either a creation of some monarchical ruler or a random fluke of the universe arising through chance biological processes. Either way, we have imposed upon us a rather unhelpful view of ourselves. 

[MOHO]

9 hours ago, Blamtasticful said:

It is THEIR problem that they have a morality so shallow that the moment they would believe that god doesn't exist that they feel justified in giving into darkness and falling to the depths of depravity.

 

Two snaps, UP!

[Geezer]

I've studied religion & the bible sufficiently enough to come to an understanding that I do not need to be saved from an imaginary tyrannical God & that I was not born inherently evil. I can say with complete honesty I do not miss God, Jesus, or Religion. In fact I am delighted to get all of that nonsense out of my life. In other words I have no regrets that I am no longer a Xian.  

[Lerk]

I'm not broken, and I don't need fixing! I could use some improvements, of course, but that comes through paying attention and learning.

 

For some reason the idea that I was broken never really got to me in the first place. I became a Christian because it's what I thought I was supposed to do, not because I felt any particular guilt.

[midniterider]

I just come here for the entertainment.

[StephenW]

On 9/1/2017 at 6:32 AM, florduh said:

The entirety of Western culture teaches us that we are outsiders; either a creation of some monarchical ruler or a random fluke of the universe arising through chance biological processes. Either way, we have imposed upeon us a rather unhelpful view of ourselves. 

 

Yes, I was thinking something similar. The two opposing sides are we were either created by God as his creation, OR we are products of evolution, decendents of the apes.. I have been thinking long and hard about this question for a long time. This choice seems a lot like: "False Dilemma. (also known as:, the either-or fallacy, either-or reasoning, )"

 

Just because those are the only two choices that we are given does not necessarily mean that those are the only possible choices. Even though both sides seem absolutely certain that their side is the one and only correct choice, which seems a lot like Alledged Certainty, with both sides claiming to have indisputable evidence. Both sides are so dead set on proving their own particular side that neither one seems open to accept that there may be other options, an argument from ignorance.

 

I don't have the answer, but I am open to their being other options. 

Stephen

[Blamtasticful]

15 hours ago, StephenW said:

 

Yes, I was thinking something similar. The two opposing sides are we were either created by God as his creation, OR we are products of evolution, decendents of the apes.. I have been thinking long and hard about this question for a long time. This choice seems a lot like: "False Dilemma. (also known as:, the either-or fallacy, either-or reasoning, )"

 

Just because those are the only two choices that we are given does not necessarily mean that those are the only possible choices. Even though both sides seem absolutely certain that their side is the one and only correct choice, which seems a lot like Alledged Certainty, with both sides claiming to have indisputable evidence. Both sides are so dead set on proving their own particular side that neither one seems open to accept that there may be other options, an argument from ignorance.

 

I don't have the answer, but I am open to their being other options. 

Stephen

 

I think the issue is not so much the facts but the way that we describe them. We are used to hearing people saying that if we come from apes that you are JUST AN ANIMAL. Even while technically true there is so much negative implication. Specifically that being an animal means that we are exactly the same as an ape rather than fairly civilized humans and we implicitly accept that without realizing that we are.

 

Or take the statement you are JUST A BAG OF CHEMICALS or JUST MOLECULES IN MOTION. We don't want to claim anything supernatural so feel it necessary to accept the "JUST" statements from Christian apologists and preachers and their implications. As if we all don't know that the human being is an interesting and very complex and fascinating living creature that has invented some amazing things like no other creature ever has. So as a solution I try to practice self authoring. I state things as truly as I can about the world in an inspiring narrative fashion that avoids loaded terminology and phrases. I think Neil Degrasse Tyson kinda does this when he explains the universe as a science educator and responds to Christians who ask critical existential questions.

 

Here is an example: 

 

[ag_NO_stic]

I have done a LOT of thinking on this as I've been deconverting. I am totally comfortable with everything you said in your original post, but I have been dealing with a mild identity crisis because of these truths. I wonder who I could have been, who I'd be now, if I'd been brought up with a more realistic worldview. Would I be married at my age? With a house? Would I have had multiple sex partners? What would I have done with my education, since I grew up thinking God would never let me fail because of his plan for me....Would I hold different political views? I know thinking about these things doesn't change it, but I still grieve the potentially different me. I have already changed and matured a bit since viewing things from such a different lens....

 

I currently answer life's questions with a giant shrug and the occasional middle finger lol. Here's to hoping I continue to figure things out and grow more and more comfortable with my new life framework.

[Blamtasticful]

9 hours ago, ag_NO_stic said:

I have done a LOT of thinking on this as I've been deconverting. I am totally comfortable with everything you said in your original post, but I have been dealing with a mild identity crisis because of these truths. I wonder who I could have been, who I'd be now, if I'd been brought up with a more realistic worldview. Would I be married at my age? With a house? Would I have had multiple sex partners? What would I have done with my education, since I grew up thinking God would never let me fail because of his plan for me....Would I hold different political views? I know thinking about these things doesn't change it, but I still grieve the potentially different me. I have already changed and matured a bit since viewing things from such a different lens....

 

I currently answer life's questions with a giant shrug and the occasional middle finger lol. Here's to hoping I continue to figure things out and grow more and more comfortable with my new life framework.

 

You aren't the only one. I was homeschooled in a program with no high school diploma and therefore no chance even try to get into the Ivy League. I had to go to community college because I had no transcripts. I was still religious then so I decided to go into ministry school. I am only now at 26 starting to finish an undergraduate degree in something actually useful. Yeah I get bitter sometimes. I just try to put the past behind AND I look to turn those weaknesses into strengths. They are what give me a unique perspective and edge. Also people raised having no religion don't just have a perfect life. You still have to make something of it. I am just going to enjoy the ride.