Dreams and subconscious fear

[MikeT]

 

I find it frustrating that I have developed a cavalier and even principled position in my daily life against the religion I was brought up with over the last 15, but can still wake up from a dream under the belief that I am being attacked in some spiritual way, and then find myself calling on the man from Galilee to help me out, which in my dream world seems to be the only option. Usually this is a situation where I am sleeping in some strange position, either lying on my back or when I don't have good circulation and therefore feel uncomfortable in some way. In my dream I perceive there must be a spirit pressing me down against the bed, and calling for help seems like the best option. Does anyone who has grown up in a pentecostal or other extremist church get dreams that they are unable to shake off? 

 

I would hope that if I was angry enough or frustrated enough in my waking hours that I would then find some way to bring some conscious awareness into my dreams but am not sure if this is possible. It seems even if I have some awareness I am dreaming and need to wake up that only the fear part of the brain seems to be operating.

[Positivist]

30 minutes ago, MikeT said:

In my dream I perceive there must be a spirit pressing me down against the bed, and calling for help seems like the best option. 

You may have a sleep disorder, such as sleep apnea, or something else that makes you feel like this.

 

I too have had some weird dreams--mainly of being shot and mortally wounded at close range--and as I am "dying" (in my dream) I call out to Santa the FSM Jesus. I guess old habits die hard!

[MikeT]

22 minutes ago, Positivist said:

You may have a sleep disorder, such as sleep apnea, or something else that makes you feel like this.

 

I too have had some weird dreams--mainly of being shot and mortally wounded at close range--and as I am "dying" (in my dream) I call out to Santa the FSM Jesus. I guess old habits die hard!

 

I might try replacing the man from Galilee with Santa or someone else. Great idea!  Thor sounds like a convenient God to use instead.

 

That sounds like a brutal dream. It reminds me of a "close range" dream my dad had when he was bayoneted through the chest and pinned to the ground. 

[Positivist]

On 9/14/2017 at 4:24 PM, MikeT said:

I might try replacing the man from Galilee with Santa or someone else. Great idea!  Thor sounds like a convenient God to use instead.

 

Meh, what's the harm in grabbing that cognitively familiar security blanket? Hell, you're asleep when you're calling out to The Diety, so you are neither responsible nor in your right mind for whatever words come to your (dreaming) lips!

[MikeT]

 

Just a note on this. I sometimes listen to youtube videos of rainfall to help me sleep. A few nights ago I fell asleep lying on my back with both headphones in my ears. I woke up to one of these dreams that would usually have turned into a fear based / demonic type dream, but this time I had no fear. The dream and sensation of waking didn't feel like it was associated with fear. I can only guess that the sound of the rainfall interfered with the way my mind usually processes the feelings associated with sleeping in an uncomfortable position and dreaming. Not practical all the time, but it seemed to have a positive effect.

[florduh]

For many people listening to ASMR vids on YouTube promotes peaceful sleep better than music does. Worth a shot if you haven't tried it.

[MikeT]

ASMR works for certain people, but I don't get the feeling other people describe. Rainfall sounds can give me that sensation. I have listened to ASMR just to hear guided visualisations but not for sleep.

[♦ Fuego ♦]

It takes time to reprogram the subconscious mind, where the fears seem real and imagination is the same as reality. I've had several of the dreams where I'm only half asleep, so my muscles are immobilized (a safety feature of sleep to help us not harm ourselves or others). Trying to say the name of Jesus, but only getting a murmur through paralyzed muscles. But as an ex-Christian, I no longer want to invoke Jesus for anything. I regard the faith like the Manson family cult, something reprehensible. But my mind had 30 years of daily programming to respond a certain way.

 

But then one night about 6 years ago, my mind set me up with a test to see what I would do. It was one of the most profound dreams I've had:

 

I dreamed that I was in the kitchen of my old house from growing up. I was with my brother. Moonlight was coming through the window. Out the window was the night sky, but like a detailed artist's rendition with many moons like line drawings. I said "Am I dreaming? How can I be dreaming, this seems so real." Yet, the image of many moons didn't fade, but grew more detailed. I had to investigate! I went to the back porch to go outside, but the back porch area was dark, and the light wouldn't turn on. The light not turning on has always been a clue in my dreams that I was about to confront "evil". I noticed that the image of the sky changed when I looked out the back porch window versus the back porch door screen. It changed from a regular image to fog when I looked from through the glass to through the screen. I realized that the amazing moon visual was an illusion specifically to lure me onto the back porch.

 

A little boy was there laughing in the semi-dark. He was "the devil" and I caught him as he ran by and tossed him to the ground and put my foot on his chest. I could feel the standard "evil power" starting to immobilize me and I tried to squeek out the name of Jesus, but then realized what I was doing. I am an ex-Christian. I said clearly out-loud, "I don't need Jesus to do this. I need to do this." I had my foot on his little chest. He giggled joyfully and ran out the back door while "saying" to me "careful, you're about to sin". I thought for a moment and then I replied, "There is no sin." He kept laughing and running around in the moonlight as I watched.

 

I asked him, "You're me, aren't you?" (not so much a statement as a question) Part of me spoke this question to him carefully, still confronting the old fear of asking questions of demons. Parts of the dream are fading now. He stopped and looked at me, and laughed while standing next to a winter-time rose bush, no flowers but full of thorns. He smiled and embraced it. There was no pain. He ran by me and I caught him again and purposefully swung him into the thorns. He yelled "Ow!" 

I said, "It hurts if I do it, but not if you do it." I realized then I didn't need to hurt him/me. He wasn't an enemy. I am him, we are one. My intent created the pain. He is also able to do things that I cannot.
 

Somewhere after this I awoke.

 

Last night I had been thinking about how I used to be able to feel a change in spiritual power when I crossed a state line. I realized last night that I felt it because I expected to feel it. I had been taught about demons and angels setting up boundaries, and aligning themselves with areas. I realized this was a childish imaginary thought, but I had made it "real" by believing it. In my dream, I returned to my childhood fears. I didn't need a savior this time. I am both the devil and god and neither, there is just one. The world that seemed so real then is illusion. This makes me laugh.

 

My mind wanted to know what I would do with "evil", what I would do with its desires and dreams. Would I still punish it for being itself? No, not anymore. I think I have a lot to learn from this "child".

[MikeT]

Nicely told, Fuego. I particularly like your description of the light and  saying the man from Galilee's name through paralysed muscles. It always comes out as a murmur. 

 

I think the ability to confront things or become aware of your dream and stick with it is a determined quality. I believe part of the reason I wake up straight away when realise I am dreaming is that I fear being in that dream world, probably because of the bad dreams I've had in the past. The last time I realised I was dreaming I did not have the conscious awareness of what is fiction and fact. In my dream world even an awareness I am dreaming does not make the blurred lines any clearer between religious conditioning and demons supposedly pinning me down so I can't move.

 

Partly it could be giving into fear on my part. I was told from a young age that dreams could be altered or influenced by demons so I guess I fear the world of dreams by default. Trying to engage your full capacity for thinking when being fearful in a dream probably has its difficulties but may also be a choice I make. 

[MikeT]

Anyway, an update on this. A few weeks ago, I managed to do something similar to Fuego. When I was waking up I felt the pressure on me and was about to call on the man from Galilee when I instead said to myself "I don't believe in this."

 

The gap of a few second between saying that to myself and actually waking up was a terribly lonely feeling. I still had the doubt that I may be being attacked or have some medical situation and that the inability to call on the name was a more vulnerable situation to be in. So, I guess praying in that context just hides the true fear which is being alone and vulnerable.

 

So, about a week ago a lady I met then told me about a talk she had heard on this kind of stuff. Apparently sleep paralysis is a common thing and has led to many folklore myths in many cultures from Vietnam to Canada. See here

 

So I guess I should have Googled this stuff. Anyway realising the points I made in this thread made it into my subconscious and were there before I woke up is something of a victory.