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Goodbye Jesus

Uniqueness Points Towards Christianity


Guest end3

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5 hours ago, end3 said:

 

Yes, all those.  And because we are different, the methodology is to legislate equality.  These legislative efforts are our attempt to assuage the process of actually doing what we are called to do, knowing them.  This then leads to grace, understanding and love.   But you go be different over there....you make me uncomfortable in my surroundings.  Here, I'll send you something so we can be equal/loved.

 

 

 

It remains for you to justify your claim that we are called to do anything, End.

 

It also remains for you to justify your claim that we are all different and unique.

 

You take both of these things as givens.

 

Please provide evidence to justify your two claims.

 

Thanks,

 

BAA.

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On 29/09/2017 at 3:18 PM, end3 said:

If we assume God absolute, then each expression of God would be absolute, i.e. unique.  Check.

 

You are basing your argument on unsupported assumptions, End.

You've assumed that we are called, you've assume that we are unique and now, in response to Florduh's input, you are making a threefold assumption.

 

1.  God exists.

2.  This God is the Christian God of the Bible.

3.  This God is an absolute.

 

So you've now got five (5) unjustified assumptions running simultaneously in your argument.

 

Once again, there is no check or checkmate here.   :nono:  

 

 

 

 

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6 hours ago, end3 said:

If we assume God absolute, then each expression of God would be absolute, i.e. unique.  Check.

If each individual is absolute, then there is no need for love, grace, relationships, cheeseburgers, or... god.

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9 hours ago, end3 said:

If we assume God absolute, then each expression of God would be absolute, i.e. unique.  Check.

 

The bible wants Unique thought and belief.

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2 hours ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

If each individual is absolute, then there is no need for love, grace, relationships, cheeseburgers, or... god.

 

Only Vodka is Absolut...

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14 hours ago, end3 said:

No, I think it's pretty decent logic.  If we were equally loved, then there wouldn't be the need........being loved... equating to physical needs in most people's mind.  And besides, I used the word point rather than prove anticipating this line of thought.  

 

Study non-sequitur.  Your understanding of "logic" is obviously quite different than mine, and different from other rational thinkers.

 

However, your word salads are almost unique...not quite but almost.

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13 hours ago, end3 said:

What would you like me to say....your trials should end on year three and mine year five, and that's it, we are finished/complete? 

Apparently, I won the race.  Finished my course. 

In a wierd way my faith got me there.  When I found out my faith and works were dead.

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On 9/29/2017 at 8:22 AM, end3 said:

If we were equally loved.....

There couldn't be "love" if there was also "not love." As with every apparent set of opposites, we are really looking at one inseparable thing. Nobody could be "saved" unless others were "lost." In the end, the big picture, the higher perspective, it doesn't ultimately matter.

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On 9/29/2017 at 1:22 PM, end3 said:

No, I think it's pretty decent logic.  If we were equally loved, then there wouldn't be the need........being loved... equating to physical needs in most people's mind.  And besides, I used the word point rather than prove anticipating this line of thought.  

 

Pretty decent logic?

 

A logical argument cannot begin with faith - as this one does, End.

It has to begin with logic, use logic and end with logic.   Faith can play no part in a logical argument.   If your argument begins with faith and then uses logic, based upon that leap of faith, then your argument is not properly logical.  It's invalid.

 

https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/tools/lp/Bo/LogicalFallacies/31/Appeal_to_Faith

 

Description: This is an abandonment of reason in an argument and a call to faith, usually when reason clearly leads to disproving the conclusion of an argument.  It is the assertion that one must have (the right kind of) faith in order to understand the argument. 

Even arguments that heavily rely on reason that ultimately require faith, abandon reason.

 

Logical Form:

X is true.

If you have faith, you will see that.

 

Example #1:

Jimmie: Joseph Smith, the all American prophet, was the blond-haired, blue-eyed voice of God.

Hollie: What is your evidence for that?

Jimmie: I don't need evidence—I only need faith.

 

Explanation: There are some things, some believe, that are beyond reason and logic.  Fair enough, but the moment we accept this, absent of any objective method of telling what is beyond reason and why anything goes, anything can be explained away without having to explain anything.

 

Example #2:

Tom: Did you know that souls ("Thetans") reincarnate and have lived on other planets before living on Earth, and Xenu was the tyrant ruler of the Galactic Confederacy?

Mike: No, I did not know that.  How do you know that?

Tom: I know this through my faith.  Do you think everything can be known by science alone?  Your faith is weak, my friend.

 

Explanation: It should be obvious that reason and logic are not being used, but rather “faith”.  While Tom might be right, there is still no valid reason offered.  The problem also arises in the vagueness of the appeal to faith.  Tom’s answer can be used to answer virtually any question imaginable, yet the answer is really a deflection.

 

St. Bingo: You need to massage my feet.

Tina: Why?

St. Bingo: My child, you will only see that answer clearly through the eyes of faith.

 

Exception: No exceptions -- the appeal to faith is always a fallacy when used to justify a conclusion in the absence of reason.

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On 9/26/2017 at 1:13 PM, end3 said:

Isn't the fact that we are unique individuals, point towards Christianity and the Christian message....

 

We have our very own inspirobot on here, how fun! :P

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On ‎9‎/‎29‎/‎2017 at 4:05 PM, TheRedneckProfessor said:

If each individual is absolute, then there is no need for love, grace, relationships, cheeseburgers, or... god.

Absolute in uniqueness.  God created humanity "a little lower"...yet it appears a portion of that absolute.  And there is this... 5They do not know nor do they understand; They walk about in darkness; All the foundations of the earth are shaken. 6I said, "You are gods, And all of you are sons of the Most High. 7"Nevertheless you will die like men And fall like any one of the princes."…

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On ‎9‎/‎29‎/‎2017 at 9:38 PM, padgemi said:

Apparently, I won the race.  Finished my course. 

In a wierd way my faith got me there.  When I found out my faith and works were dead.

I don't know your specifics P.  Not sure how you conclude that faith produces dead works. 

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On ‎9‎/‎30‎/‎2017 at 9:12 AM, florduh said:

There couldn't be "love" if there was also "not love." As with every apparent set of opposites, we are really looking at one inseparable thing. Nobody could be "saved" unless others were "lost." In the end, the big picture, the higher perspective, it doesn't ultimately matter.

Apparently it does matter.  3This is good and pleasing in the sight of God our Savior, 4who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. 5For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,…

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43 minutes ago, end3 said:

Absolute in uniqueness.  God created humanity "a little lower"...yet it appears a portion of that absolute.  And there is this... 5They do not know nor do they understand; They walk about in darkness; All the foundations of the earth are shaken. 6I said, "You are gods, And all of you are sons of the Most High. 7"Nevertheless you will die like men And fall like any one of the princes."…

 

Why would Gods  need to worship other gods? Thanks for reminding me that I am a god. I’ll be enjoying eternity in my own private heaven with some hot babes. 

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On ‎9‎/‎29‎/‎2017 at 9:32 PM, sdelsolray said:

 

Study non-sequitur.  Your understanding of "logic" is obviously quite different than mine, and different from other rational thinkers.

 

However, your word salads are almost unique...not quite but almost.

Maybe a function of reading people, feelings, when we were children.....this causes this, that causes that......parenting at it's best.  Idk, I don't have a decent way to describe it.  Types maybe, analogous patterns make things true.  Very frustrating to purists like BAA.  (No offense BAA, wish sometimes I had the energy to explain how A leads to D in my thoughts).  

 

 

 

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42 minutes ago, end3 said:

Maybe a function of reading people, feelings, when we were children.....this causes this, that causes that......parenting at it's best. 

...

This is an incoherent sentence.

 

...

Idk, I don't have a decent way to describe it.

...

Apparently not.

 

...

Types maybe, analogous patterns make things true.

...

More incoherence.

 

You should consider spending time learning how to write coherently.

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18 minutes ago, sdelsolray said:

This is an incoherent sentence.

 

Apparently not.

 

More incoherence.

 

You should consider spending time learning how to write coherently.

I quit high school.  I haven't graphed a sentence in approximately 40 years.  I lean towards prose because it doesn't demand the specifics.  I do, however, believe that communication is vital for understanding.  As I preach "knowing" others, one would think I would make a better effort....

 

   

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2 hours ago, end3 said:

Maybe a function of reading people, feelings, when we were children.....this causes this, that causes that......parenting at it's best.  Idk, I don't have a decent way to describe it.  Types maybe, analogous patterns make things true.  Very frustrating to purists like BAA.  (No offense BAA, wish sometimes I had the energy to explain how A leads to D in my thoughts).  

 

 

 

 

No offense taken, End.

 

Nor am I frustrated.

 

However, I do hope you can see that what I do here isn't personal.  I'm just using the skills and knowledge I possess to help my fellow members.  

 

Thanks,

 

BAA.

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5 hours ago, end3 said:

Absolute in uniqueness.  God created humanity "a little lower"...yet it appears a portion of that absolute.  And there is this... 5They do not know nor do they understand; They walk about in darkness; All the foundations of the earth are shaken. 6I said, "You are gods, And all of you are sons of the Most High. 7"Nevertheless you will die like men And fall like any one of the princes."…

 

Nice reference here to the Canaanite pantheon that wasn't quite obliterated from the bible.

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6 hours ago, end3 said:

I quit high school.  I haven't graphed a sentence in approximately 40 years.  I lean towards prose because it doesn't demand the specifics.  I do, however, believe that communication is vital for understanding.

...

 

 

These four sentences are coherent, although #3 is a bit obtuse.

 

...

As I preach "knowing" others, one would think I would make a better effort....

 

This sentence is less coherent, i.e., more confusing than clear.

 

Yes, you communicate better when you write coherently.  You fail, at written communication, when you write incoherently.

 

 

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On 10/1/2017 at 10:41 AM, end3 said:

Absolute in uniqueness.  God created humanity "a little lower"...yet it appears a portion of that absolute.  And there is this... 5They do not know nor do they understand; They walk about in darkness; All the foundations of the earth are shaken. 6I said, "You are gods, And all of you are sons of the Most High. 7"Nevertheless you will die like men And fall like any one of the princes."…

Then individuals are not absolute.  They cannot be absolute if they are not complete within themselves.  They cannot be complete within themselves if they are "a little lower" and "do not know or understand".  Therefore, individuals are not absolute.

 

Your premise is "Individuals are unique, therefore god."  But your arguments support nothing more than that individuals are unique.

 

And, yes, you are unique... just like everybody else.

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16 hours ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

Then individuals are not absolute.  They cannot be absolute if they are not complete within themselves.  They cannot be complete within themselves if they are "a little lower" and "do not know or understand".  Therefore, individuals are not absolute.

 

Your premise is "Individuals are unique, therefore god."  But your arguments support nothing more than that individuals are unique.

 

And, yes, you are unique... just like everybody else.

"Ye are gods", "a little lower".

 

Here's the way I see it.  If God is absolute, then his creation would be a form of absolute.  Uniqueness is a form of absolute. 

 

"Ye are gods" is affirmation that the creation is a form of God.

 

"Made a little lower" is again affirmation that we are not absolute in the same sense God is absolute.

 

I haven't said that humanity was absolute in the total absolute sense.  I find it interesting that the Bible addresses these issues.....more that a coincidence imo.

 

Thx, I appreciate the comments.

 

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1 hour ago, end3 said:

"Ye are gods", "a little lower".

 

Here's the way I see it.  If God is absolute, then his creation would be a form of absolute.  Uniqueness is a form of absolute. 

 

"Ye are gods" is affirmation that the creation is a form of God.

 

"Made a little lower" is again affirmation that we are not absolute in the same sense God is absolute.

 

I haven't said that humanity was absolute in the total absolute sense.  I find it interesting that the Bible addresses these issues.....more that a coincidence imo.

 

Thx, I appreciate the comments.

 

So, you're suggesting that people are absolute; but not absolutely absolute.  And therefore god.

 

I'm not sure that really works.

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2 hours ago, end3 said:

"Ye are gods", "a little lower".

 

Here's the way I see it.  If God is absolute, then his creation would be a form of absolute.  Uniqueness is a form of absolute. 

 

"Ye are gods" is affirmation that the creation is a form of God.

 

"Made a little lower" is again affirmation that we are not absolute in the same sense God is absolute.

 

I haven't said that humanity was absolute in the total absolute sense.  I find it interesting that the Bible addresses these issues.....more that a coincidence imo.

 

Thx, I appreciate the comments.

 

 

End,

 

You are still asserting/assuming/claiming that humans are unique, without presenting any evidence that we are.

On Sept 26 I asked you to present evidence that we are unique.   "The fact that we are unique individuals.  (Evidence?)"

On Sept 29 I asked you to present evidence that we are unique.   "It also remains for you to justify your claim that we are all different and unique."

Later on the same day I pointed out that you had five assumptions in your argument, one of them being your assumption that we are unique. 

"You've assumed that we are called (#1), you've assume that we are unique (#2) and now, in response to Florduh's input, you are making a threefold assumption.

1.  God exists.

2.  This God is the Christian God of the Bible.

3.  This God is an absolute.

 

So, even if today's claim (that uniqueness is a form of absolute) is correct, unless you present evidence that we are unique - then you have no argument.

If you are right about everything else, but we are not unique - then you have no argument.  Your entire argument hangs on you presenting evidence that humans are unique.  If you cannot or will not do that - then you have no argument.   Unless you can justify your claim for the uniqueness of humans with evidence, everything you've written in this thread amounts to no more than your opinions and speculations.  

 

Yes, I realize that you might consider these words to be some kind personal attack or you might refer to me as some kind of hopeless, rule-bound purist.

So be it.  I cannot shift from this position because it's not negotiable.  I'm sorry, but I don't make the rules of logical argument - but I do my best to follow them.

 

Now, you've made the claim/assertion/assumption that humans are unique. 

It therefore falls to you to justify that claim.  Please note that your personal and subjective thoughts, feelings, speculations and opinions on this matter do not justify your claim.  The only thing that does and that makes the cut is objective evidence.  Please present this to us.

 

Thanks,

 

BAA.

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