Screwing up my kids

[LostinParis]

Hello!

 

I stumbled across the Ex-Christian website earlier this year, and following an intense week of reading, listening to podcasts and watching YouTube, I no longer identify myself as Christian.

 

I was raised as a liberal Catholic. My husband came from a deeply religious, Christian Orthodox family, however in the past I would never have described him as a fundamentalist.

 

Exactly one year ago my husband suffered a mental breakdown, triggered by work stress. He began to wake in a panic every night, paranoid that god was punishing him and that he was going to hell. He lost all touch with reality and was hospitalised with psychosis. He was prescribed anti-psychotic medication and made a full recovery.

 

We both have very different perspectives on this bizarre event. I see his fear of hell/Satan/God as the main reason behind his psychotic episode. He sees God as the one thing that saved him.

 

I began to wonder if there was a link between fundamentalist religions and mental illness. I subsequently gave myself permission to research my doubts about Christianity. The resulting landslide of my Christian beliefs has been a welcome relief.

 

I quizzed my kids about what they had been learning in Orthodox Sunday School, and my youngest asked me, "Is hell real?" I was horrified that they were being indoctrinated about eternal suffering for non-believers, gay and transgender people. In the 9 years of my own Catholic schooling I don't recall hell being mentioned once.

 

I told my husband that I would no longer be attending his church, and that I wanted our kids to cease Sunday School. He broke down and cried, begging me to come back to church. I did so briefly however I could no longer stomach it. I see no good reason to teach kids about hell, and I consider threats of eternal suffering as child abuse.

 

Our disagreements over the kids have created a bitter divide between my husband and I. Each time we discuss the situation he interprets it as a personal attack. It seems like he is fighting against his rational nature, and I have since discovered a word for this: Cognitive Dissonance. 

 

Right now I am furious at myself for being so naive in the past, and I'm worried that I have screwed up my kids. Can an atheist and a fundamentalist Christian have a happy marriage?

 

Thank-you for reading and giving me a space to unload my baggage!

[Mothernature]

Hi and welcome. Your post resonates with me. I don't have the answers but am on a similar journey so I look forward to sharing ideas with you. I'm curious as to how your Sunday morning goes. Do the kids stay with you? I'm still going to church at this time as I want to know what they are being indoctrinated with and I don't have the confidence yet to stand up and fight about whether or not the kids go (I also don't want them to be caught in the middle). My husband would insist they go. How did you manage your situation?

[LostinParis]

6 hours ago, Mothernature said:

Hi and welcome. Your post resonates with me. I don't have the answers but am on a similar journey so I look forward to sharing ideas with you. I'm curious as to how your Sunday morning goes. Do the kids stay with you? I'm still going to church at this time as I want to know what they are being indoctrinated with and I don't have the confidence yet to stand up and fight about whether or not the kids go (I also don't want them to be caught in the middle). My husband would insist they go. How did you manage your situation?

 

I dread Sunday mornings, so do my kids. They hate going to church, on Saturday they begin to plead with me to lobby my husband on their behalf. They fake illness, school assignments, anything to avoid church and stay home with me. There is yelling, threats, manipulation with guilt and bribery with sweets. It's awful. 

 

I would prefer that the kids stop going to church however a compromise was reached. My husband agreed to discontinue Sunday School but continue taking the kids to church. My kids don't speak the language spoken in church, so they don't understand much of what is said. I quizz and de-program them on Mondays.

 

I'm not worried about my eldest child, he is 15, loves science and is pragmatic. He told me he believes in god and goes to confession "just in case it's true". I wonder if he has read about Pascal's Wager?

 

I have always encouraged my two daughters to think independently, to question everything and to speak their mind. I remind them that they have a voice and can choose what to believe. I reassure them that their father loves them unconditionally.

[♦ ficino ♦]

Hello LostinParis, I am very sorry to hear all this. By Orthodox, do you mean Greek or Russian or the equivalent? I am surprised to hear that Greek Orthodox churches are making a big deal about hell, if that's the group your husband grew up in.

 

My father suffered a psychotic breakdown when I was in the womb. He came out of it mostly, but not completely. He spent the next almost 60 years of his life in the conviction that he had had a mystical experience and had realized the divine part of his soul. His delusions were different from what you describe as your husband's, but yes, the schizophrenia manifested itself in religiously-shaped mental structures. there was no way to argue my father out of his beliefs. He was a good and loving man, but his remaining schizophrenia (so diagnosed decades later as still being there) and belief system--which was at bottom all about him--led him to make very bad decisions. When I was old enough, I got the financial independence that allowed me to limit the effects his decisions had on me. My mother, who had given up her career, was pretty much stuck.

 

There have been many people on this site who are married to conservative believers. I can't advise about your marriage and family from experience, but you can get many good perspectives from people on this board who have been through what you're in the midst of.

 

It sounds as though you are doing a great job of being a mother and wife and human person. Hugs, f

[LostinParis]

22 minutes ago, ficino said:

Hello LostinParis, I am very sorry to hear all this. By Orthodox, do you mean Greek or Russian or the equivalent? I am surprised to hear that Greek Orthodox churches are making a big deal about hell, if that's the group your husband grew up in.

 

My husband was raised Russian Orthodox, of the conservative variety, with a good dose of superstition. His parents believe in exorcism as a treatment for mental illness.

Was your father indoctrinated into Christianity as a young child?

[♦ ficino ♦]

Yes, my father was raised pretty strict Methodist. They signed The Pledge, everything. Later he got interested in eastern religion, Jung, and as an artist, in questions about what is the source of art? So his schizophrenia manifested itself in an amalgam of Christian and mystical imagery with my father as the conquering hero who psychically died and rose again. It was of consuming interest to him but he could never put his ideas into a form he could monetize, bless his heart.

[MOHO]

Welcome to the forum, @LostinParis.

 

And welcome to the Unequally Yoked Club!

Not a club one usually WANTS to belong to but...at least we HAVE one, dammit!

 

Your situation is rough but not uncommon and, yes, you can stay married, but things will likely be different. The most <sarc> pleasant </sarc> aspect is being regarded as a Parana by my family because I am an atheist. We're talking about folks who have a deep-rooted discontent with members of other churches! Catholicism - fogetaboutit! 

 

I've learned to cope by setting boundaries and adhering to them.

     1. Going to church with Mrs. MOHO but NOT going into the sanctuary. (This will likely change soon due to my hyperactive       GAG REFLEX!)

 

     2. NOT even responding to requests to attend other church functions. ("Don't eve ASK!" is what I am truly saying)

     3. NOT responding to the typical "Don't you just FEEL the lord!?" "Will you pray over dinner?" "Don't you understand that this country is suffering because it is turning away from the lord?!"

    4. Pursuing friends outside of xiantity and motivating Mrs. MOHO to do the same.

    5. Responding with clear, concise, documented and provable (mostly) evidence that xianity is B.S. - (big help here from Ehrman, Dawkins, Hitchens et. al) when they ask why I have made this decision. Sometimes they actually listen.

 

Hope this helps and keep reading and visiting.

    - MOHO (Mind Of His Own)

 

 

[midniterider]

16 hours ago, LostinParis said:

I began to wonder if there was a link between fundamentalist religions and mental illness. I subsequently gave myself permission to research my doubts about Christianity. The resulting landslide of my Christian beliefs has been a welcome relief.

 

Christianity causes an irrational fear of a non-existent threat as a survival mechanism. It's a mind virus. I'd say it is a mental illness.

 

16 hours ago, LostinParis said:

 

Our disagreements over the kids have created a bitter divide between my husband and I. Each time we discuss the situation he interprets it as a personal attack. It seems like he is fighting against his rational nature, and I have since discovered a word for this: Cognitive Dissonance. 

 

 

 

 

Ask your husband why he feels personally attacked during these disagreements? There's a simple reason. Because Jesus is a puppet personality in your husband's head and your husband is the puppet master. Your husband and Jesus are one and the same. Just like every other Christian invents the mind of Jesus for themselves. Of course you already know this, but it might be worth mentioning.

 

You probably dont intend to personally attack your husband but really want to point out to him where he is being deluded by Christianity. Why is it soooooo important that you go to church and whyyyyyy can't you skip it? Because church is a weekly dose of a mind altering drug. It's the place where pastors and deluded congregation members all get high. It's like a religious crack-house and the pastor is a drug dealer.

 

If Jesus is the almighty and your husband was STRONG in the lord then he could skip church forever and still be STRONG in the lord, right? No? If not, then I guess in reality Christians HAVE to keep going to church to keep their programming topped off. If they dont go to church for a while, REALITY starts seeping in and their cult programming wears off. I think the fact that a Christian's  Jesus programming CAN wear off is a strong indicator that is not real at all but is instead a total crock of baloney.

 

If Jesus were real he would be with you always, right? Says right here in the bible that Jesus will never forsake you... (haha) https://www.openbible.info/topics/i_will_never_leave_you_nor_forsake_you

 

So there is absolutely no need to go to church.

 

(Cognitive dissonance may be the first step for your husband's deconversion)

 

 

[midniterider]

7 hours ago, LostinParis said:

 

I'm not worried about my eldest child, he is 15, loves science and is pragmatic. He told me he believes in god and goes to confession "just in case it's true". I wonder if he has read about Pascal's Wager?

 

I have always encouraged my two daughters to think independently, to question everything and to speak their mind. I remind them that they have a voice and can choose what to believe. I reassure them that their father loves them unconditionally.

 

You're good to go then.

[LostinParis]

5 hours ago, MOHO said:

 

I've learned to cope by setting boundaries and adhering to them.

 

 

Thank-you @MOHO, very good advice. I tend to compromise too much because I hate conflict.

[LostinParis]

4 hours ago, midniterider said:

Your husband and Jesus are one and the same.

@midniterider

Does this mean I am married to Jesus? Shit.

 

I don't wish to convert my husband, I am here looking for insight into why he thinks and acts the way he does. Ok maybe I do want to convert him.

 

I like your religious crackhouse analogy, I never thought of church like that. Spot on!

[midniterider]

8 hours ago, LostinParis said:

@midniterider

Does this mean I am married to Jesus? Shit.

 

I don't wish to convert my husband, I am here looking for insight into why he thinks and acts the way he does. Ok maybe I do want to convert him.

 

I like your religious crackhouse analogy, I never thought of church like that. Spot on!

 

I think most Christians probably have a lingering fear in the back of their mind that the whole thing is a sham. That's why church and all the other religious rituals and activities are so important. Because really there is nothing else. Jesus certainly doesn't do shit so it's all on the believer to live this silly religion. 

 

Christians keep each other programmed. Fellowship is mutual programming.  Making sure nobody uses their noggins. But then when his wife drops out and backs the kids dropping out as well .... I assume that's very threatening to his faith. There is strength in numbers but when the numbers start to dwindle and they are your own family members.... maybe he will start questioning his own beliefs. But if not, I hope you can all coexist.

 

As long as one parent instills reason, logic and critical thinking into the kids ... religious training will be null and void.