No, Watch This Video

[chefranden]

 

I think that it plays a bit fast and loose here and there. For example its insistence that it going to just lay out the facts and let the viewer decide while at the same time being snide and condescending to the believer -- kind of the opposite of Kevin H. Many of the parallels with other saviors seem a bit of a stretch. For example, I've never heard of that Mary's womb became crystalline. That's got to be a rather obscure tradition.

 

I won't argue that the story is not another Zodiac story. I think that is pretty clear, but I'd still like to check the references of some of their material.

[Dhampir]

Yeah, even I got a feel for some of the stretches there, however, most of what I saw rang very true to me, as if it were expressing thoughts that I never had the knowledge or ability to put into words before.

[Ouroboros]

I'm sorry, but I have a hard time with the "Noah Arga" thing. Can someone confirm that this tradition actually existed and really had that transliterated word? Sometimes when things sounds to close I suspect it's made up. It might not be, but just like someone made the comment about Amun-Rah (and not Amen-Rah).

 

--edit--

 

I'll take the last part back. Amen or Amun are both valid.

[MQTA]

Found part 2! In 6 parts though... 2.1, 2.2, etc.. 2.6

 

http://youtube.com/watch?v=_kcKInudkq4&amp...chard%20dawkins

[Sheratan]

But to ease things a bit, I placed them at http://www.hamal.nl/movies/TheRootOfAllEvilPt1.avi and http://www.hamal.nl/movies/TheRootOfAllEvilPt2.avi.

 

those 2 links give me errors and close my windows media player down

 

To make sure, I checked the md5sums of both files on the server and compared them with the ones on my local machine (which play nicely with mplayer on Linux) and they are identical. If anyone else is having problems with these files on Windows Media Player, I would advise BSPlayer (Adware) which seems to be a versatile media player.

 

Cheers,

Rob

[Sheratan]

It might not be, but just like someone made the comment about Amun-Rah (and not Amen-Rah).

 

--edit--

 

I'll take the last part back. Amen or Amun are both valid.

 

Well, maybe Amen-Ra is also correct, but I still have serious doubts that this name was the origin of the word "Amen" that is being used in prayers. I've googled both Amen and Amen-Ra and I could not find a distinct connection, quite the contrary. But besides this and other stretches, the movie also contains factual errors (like the one I previously mentioned about the "precession of the equinox" being caused by the Sun's path in our galaxy). So while I agree with the makers of the movie that Christianity has a strong foothold in mythology, I think they did a bad and easily debunkable job of portraying it.

 

Cheers,

Rob

[Ouroboros]

Well, maybe Amen-Ra is also correct, but I still have serious doubts that this name was the origin of the word "Amen" that is being used in prayers. I've googled both Amen and Amen-Ra and I could not find a distinct connection, quite the contrary. But besides this and other stretches, the movie also contains factual errors (like the one I previously mentioned about the "precession of the equinox" being caused by the Sun's path in our galaxy). So while I agree with the makers of the movie that Christianity has a strong foothold in mythology, I think they did a bad and easily debunkable job of portraying it.

Agree. I doubt the Amen came from Amen-Rah. I think the Amen-Rah worship stopped some hundred years BCE, so how could it be connected?

 

I kind of missed your comment of the equinox before, you say the astrological ages are not changed by the motion of the solar system in the galaxy? What is causing the change of the equinox being in one of the constellations? The tilt of the solar system?

 

And I think also they could have made a better job. But it's a good starting point for discussion!

 

--edit--

 

Oh, I found it. It's the tilt of the Earth axis that changes. Not the sun or the solar system.

[jjacksonRIAB]

But still, it does happen for three days and that was the point.

 

I'm not going to assume they knew as much about then it as we do now. Wasn't their explanation that the Sun was further away? Well that is true. It's further away from a stationary point on the surface (tangent line) and at that time those religions centered around the Middle East, whether the earth is tilting or the Sun is physically further away is just a matter of relativity, but I thought the point was more the three days deal along with the three days resurrection. The astrological references from the Bible, however, were clear.

 

As for Amen, I thought that was from the OT, so whether it was BCE or not is irrelevant due to the fact that Judaism existed well before then and it told a bunch of lies in connection with Egypt too. A lot of stuff was passed on from older religions to Judaism. Also with older languages, the spelling doesn't "map" correctly to the Latin alphabet, even in modern times. Ex. Usama and Osama are both correct spellings. Probably not so much spelling as pronunciation, but even so that gets butchered over time as well.

 

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01407b.htm

 

I. In the Holy Scripture it appears almost invariably as an adverb, and its primary use is to indicate that the speaker adopts for his own what has already been said by another. Thus in Jer., xxviii, 6, the prophet represents himself as answering to Hananias's prophecy of happier days; "Amen, the Lord perform the words which thou hast prophesied". And in the imprecations of Deut., xxvii, 14 sqq. we read, for example: "Cursed be he that honoureth not his father and mother, and all the people shall say Amen". From this, some liturgical use of the word appears to have developed long before the coming of Jesus Christ.

 

Finally, we may note that the word Amen occurs not infrequently in early Christian inscriptions, and that it was often introduced into anathemas and gnostic spells. Moreover, as the Greek letters which form Amen according to their numerical values total 99 (alpha=1, mu=40, epsilon=8, nu=50), this number often appears in inscriptions, especially of Egyptian origin, and a sort of magical efficacy seems to have been attributed to its symbol. It should also be mentioned that the word Amen is still employed in the ritual both of Jews and Mohammedans.

 

Could it be Egyptian in origin?

[Ouroboros]

But still, it does happen for three days and that was the point.

Are you referring to the equinox in correlation with the astrological ages?

 

No, the astrological age is somewhere between 2000-3000 years each time, depending on which constellation we're talking about. They're not the same size, and there are different systems to separate when one end and the next one starts.

 

You maybe are thinking about the winter soltice. That's 3 days. When the longest night starts turning to longer days.

 

As for Amen, I thought that was from the OT, so whether it was BCE or not is irrelevant due to the fact that Judaism existed well before then and it told a bunch of lies in connection with Egypt too.

Was "amen" in the OT? Okay, I had forgotten that.

[Sheratan]

I kind of missed your comment of the equinox before, you say the astrological ages are not changed by the motion of the solar system in the galaxy? What is causing the change of the equinox being in one of the constellations? The tilt of the solar system?

 

And I think also they could have made a better job. But it's a good starting point for discussion!

 

--edit--

 

Oh, I found it. It's the tilt of the Earth axis that changes. Not the sun or the solar system.

Indeed, the earths axis makes kind of a wiggle (just like a spin toy does) once every 26000 years which results in the fact that in a couple of centuries the star Polaris will be too far apart from the celestial north pole to still be considered the "pole star". The tilt still stays at 23.5 degrees though. It also result if a shift of a position of the vernal equinox (which happens arount March 21) along the ecliptic line (i.e. the path of the sun in the zodiacal constellations). While this was in Aries around 2000 years ago, it is presently in Pisces and on the verge of going into Aquarius - which is where the "age of Aquarius" is derived from.

 

Cheers,

Rob

[Sheratan]

But still, it does happen for three days and that was the point.

 

I'm not going to assume they knew as much about then it as we do now. Wasn't their explanation that the Sun was further away? Well that is true. It's further away from a stationary point on the surface (tangent line) and at that time those religions centered around the Middle East, whether the earth is tilting or the Sun is physically further away is just a matter of relativity, but I thought the point was more the three days deal along with the three days resurrection. The astrological references from the Bible, however, were clear.

 

As HanSolo already pointed out, the precession bit is something else. The 3 days they mentioned referred to their assumption that the winter solstice was the model for the ressurrection story of Jesus, since the sun stands still for 3 days before resuming its path northwards. Even though the sun doesn't "stand still" for 3 days (the solstice is calculated to a precision of seconds), I can imagine that the Iron-age and Bronse-age people lacked the tools to notice that precision and could very well consider the solstice to take 3 days, but if the winter solstice was a model for life after a 3-day death, where then is the death after 3-day life that is modeled after the summer solstice? Both happen every 6 months.

 

I am very well aware that Christianity and Judaism have their origins in other myths that predate them, but the claims in the movie are unsubstantiated and streched to say the least. They claim a lot of things and expect me to just accept that dogmatically. Well, I just un-learned to do that. And if I see a clear error in the material that is presented, I consider the material junk and look forward to something more substantiated. If the Bible claims Jesus was born during the reign of Herod the Great (Matthew ch. 2) while the same Bible claims that he was born while Quirinius was governor of Siria (Luke 2:1-2) and we know that Quirinius became governor appr. 10 years after Herod's death, then I disregard the Bible as authorotive on the historicity of Jesus. Similarly I disregard "The Naked Truth" as authorotive on the origins of Christianity.

 

As for Amen,

 

--snip--

 

Could it be Egyptian in origin?

 

Very possible, but still it had been a Hebrew word for quite a while, including its own meaning before it was used in Judaism, so to stipulate that the use of "Amen" in Christian and Jewish prayers finds its origin in the Egyptian worshipping of Amen-Ra is, to say the least, far fetched.

 

Cheers,

Rob

[Sheratan]

It also result if a shift of a position of the vernal equinox (which happens arount March 21) along the ecliptic line (i.e. the path of the sun in the zodiacal constellations). While this was in Aries around 2000 years ago, it is presently in Pisces and on the verge of going into Aquarius - which is where the "age of Aquarius" is derived from.

Pictures say more than a thousand words, here is a screendump of the program "xephem" where you can see the current position of the vernal equinox.

 

Cheers,

Rob

[jjacksonRIAB]

You maybe are thinking about the winter soltice. That's 3 days. When the longest night starts turning to longer days.

 

Ah, I get it.

 

Where did they mention the equinox?

 

Bah, yeah I read Sheratan's eariler post and I recalled that they said something about the sun moving through the constellations. I get what you're talking about now

 

Sorry 'bout that.

 

Here's what I read.

 

The current explanation for why we see this precession of the equinox is that the tug of the Sun and the Moon acting upon the Earth’s bulge (<1% wider at equator) causes the Earth to gyrate so that the pole axis slowly traces a circle in the sky over about 24,000 years – give or take a few thousand years. The Lunisolor Precession theory was developed before any knowledge of binary prevalence or star phases. While this theory is one method of explaining the observed phenomena, it is still unproven and produces a number of enigmas.

 

I don't know much about astronomy. Is the Lunisolar Procession theory well-established, or is the above speculation?

 

There are other links for YHVH to the Sun God, though -one seems to be that the Gawd of the OT could not be looked at directly, like the sun. AMEN also was used as a noun in the Bible, not just an ejaculation. AMEN meaning truth. Christ said "I am the Amen"; sounds close to "I am the way, the truth, etc", which is also what Horus (Amen-Ra) said. Of course it can only be speculated.

 

But I think to say the word AMEN had only roots back to Greece or Judaism and not beyond is also equally far-fetched, though not too far fetched as with the former, for of course we make up new words all the time, though they are usually bastardizations of older words.

[Ouroboros]

I don't know much about astronomy. Is the Lunisolar Procession theory well-established, or is the above speculation?

The equinoxes, solstices and the astrological ages are established. Of course the signs etc doesn't have any effects on our life etc, but processions in and out of the constellations is happening.

[jjacksonRIAB]

I don't know much about astronomy. Is the Lunisolar Procession theory well-established, or is the above speculation?

The equinoxes, solstices and the astrological ages are established. Of course the signs etc doesn't have any effects on our life etc, but processions in and out of the constellations is happening.

 

No I know processions are established, but the mechanism of processions, whether it occurs due to the moon. There is apparently also the idea of binary stars that could account for it.

[Ouroboros]

I'm not sure what you mean... That the moon is the cause of the change of the tilt of Earth? It could be, I'm not sure. The Moon's gravity must have some effects on Earths spin and path around the sun. Kind of wobbling. And the other planets do too, but with much smaller impact of course.

[Misterspock1]

The Naked Truth

 

Ties the myth and resurrection of Jesus to other earlier Gods, and explains their connection to the Zodiac. Almost two hours long, written and produced from a Deist perspective.

 

Guaranteed to offend the religious.

 

Thank you. It was VERY enlightening.

[Sheratan]

Here's what I read.

 

The current explanation for why we see this precession of the equinox is that the tug of the Sun and the Moon acting upon the Earths bulge (<1% wider at equator) causes the Earth to gyrate so that the pole axis slowly traces a circle in the sky over about 24,000 years give or take a few thousand years. The Lunisolor Precession theory was developed before any knowledge of binary prevalence or star phases. While this theory is one method of explaining the observed phenomena, it is still unproven and produces a number of enigmas.

 

I don't know much about astronomy. Is the Lunisolar Procession theory well-established, or is the above speculation?

 

Hey, I learned something new too. I wasn't aware of the binary prevalence theory before, I will look into it. Take note that I am not an astronomer, I even have no academic education. I'm just a sysadmin with an interrest in astronomy. That said, I have a difficulty to imagine a current or former binary companion of the sun to be causing this, unless this companion was within a range of a couple of AUs (AU is the mean distance of the earth to the sun). I think if that were the case we would have a lot of tell-tale signs left in the current paths of planets in the solar system.

The lunisolar torque seems much more likely to me, since indeed the earth is not a perfect sphere (is bulges outward at the equator due to its rotation around its axis) and since neither the sun nor the moon is in a perfect plane with the earths equator, they will exercise an uneven force on different parts of the earth. It seems to me to be a likely source of the precession.

 

Cheers,

Rob

[Lunar Shadow]

very cool video JJ thanks for sharing

[Knightley]

I just saw it today, it was intriguing. I'm not sure if I can buy the stuff about the zodiac because it seemed like it was a stretch, so at this point I'm keeping my mind open, but it was definitely a learning experience if anything. I also don't like how they use the bible to justify unbelief, that's as bad as xians using the bible to justify everything they believe in. If people are going to justify unbelief then they better use other resources and have evidence to back up their proofs. That's all. I'm sorry but having been in xianity and believing blindly for so long, I just need proof for anything valid. That's why I like science.

[Lunar Shadow]

doing a little research on the video I have come to the conclusion that it really is not a relyable source bacause it is based on 19th century egyptology, so it is depratly out of date and it is filled with half truths. be weary.

[Knightley]

I finally had the chance to watch those Richard Dawkins videos and they're much better imo. It was fun watching those fundies get their panties in a bunch

[Variable]

I watched the Richard Dawkins video. The part where the pastor yells at Richard Dawkins and tells him to get off his property for calling his children "animals" has had me laughing at work every 5 minutes. I'm glad Richard Dawkins actually has a sense of humor. Some of these scientists are just ssssoooo serious.

[Guest EACguy]

The Naked Truth

 

Ties the myth and resurrection of Jesus to other earlier Gods, and explains their connection to the Zodiac. Almost two hours long, written and produced from a Deist perspective.

 

Guaranteed to offend the religious.

 

Anyone has a written transcript of this?

[Guest Seeking_Intellectual_Honesty]

marvelous!