Wow, you are singing a NEWsong!

A few years back Sam Keen said something that gave me a new way of defining experiences similar to the one you describe.

“-- a sudden reorganization of perceptions, in a more economical manner, attitudes, and dispositions which results in a relaxation of inner and outer conflicts and in liberation of previously bound energies for projects and relationships which are satisfying to the maturing self."

That viscerally defines for me the “event” of grace found in common human experience.

When I give up my dualistic fancied notions, grace “happens!”

A grace that the traditional Christian view sorely misses!

That is a succoring song I can sing!

“-- a sudden reorganization of perceptions, in a more economical manner, attitudes, and dispositions which results in a relaxation of inner and outer conflicts and in liberation of previously bound energies for projects and relationships which are satisfying to the maturing self."

I love this...and yes,I agree asanerman, GRACE is a concept that seems to have EVADED the "christian" mindset and thinking ironically. Thanks for replying...I enjoy your writing and thoughts.

What's funny about this is that what one experiences in how we are free to choose love and our beliefs from within, without the external 'thou shalt' pressures of religious dogma, rightly can be called a true salvation. I too am surprised at how much of what the lingo Christianity uses in quoting Jesus means something rather constricting to them, rather than freeing.

It's ironic that on the outside of the chains of that religion prison, the there is real actual meaning in many of these sayings, rather than a twisted imprisoning rule. I honestly believe the early Christian movement was originally about breaking religion's hold on the human soul, but like all else that humans do, they took it in its popularity and made another religion out of it, imprisoning God and themselves within it. And now here we are, too, breaking that yoke and finding true salvation.

I honestly believe the early Christian movement was originally about breaking religion's hold on the human soul, but like all else that humans do, they took it in its popularity and made another religion out of it, imprisoning God and themselves within it. And now here we are, too, breaking that yoke and finding true salvation.

I "feel" liberated from the bonds of the christian dogma. I am considering RE read the bible and find MORE OF THE TRUE MEANING...as I have said before, Jesus would "roll over in his grave" to hear how "his words" have been so twisted...he came to "give us life" and christianity today has taken this to "only christians HAVE life" and the life that they have, we HAD and deemed as prison and FREED ourselves (as I think the REAL Jesus would want for us, really). They can't understand it...thanks for commenting Antlerman...I appreciate your thoughts...

I then told her that I "really love Jesus, even yet...I mean that with all of my heart. I still believe that Jesus is awesome and love him.

I "feel" liberated from the bonds of the christian dogma. I am considering RE read the bible and find MORE OF THE TRUE MEANING...

NEWsong,

I was born into the Western mythos of a savior-oriented Christianity (soteriology), where there is a dividing line between believer and non-believer, saved and lost, condemned and forgiven.

My "liberation" was gained as I dared to venture into the wisdom traditions (including the early Christian Wisdom tradition), where salvation was a "bestowal" (conveyed as a gift) of life and to be saved was "to be made alive!"

The focus was on the path (praxis). What the Wisdom Master (Jesus, among others) did within themselves (Unified, Single-One, made whole, integrated) could occur for anyone willing to venture the path.

As I strayed (fell from grace) from my soteriological roots I ventured into the Gnostic Gospels, that remarkable range of recently rediscovered gospels found in the Nag Hammadi collection. From the Gospel of Thomas, the Gospel of Mary Magdalene, form the Syriac liturgies, form the African desert fathers and mothers, from Celtic poetry and Chinese sutra the same "Wisdom" (sophiological) message speaks; "You too must become, you too must do the work for yourself!"

I am astounded by the "weight" of truth coming forth form so many strange and magnificent places!

saner

It is the strangest of things. Today as I meditated, of all things came to mind "the Lord's Prayer". Abruptly the words of it took on a new illumination that made sense, in no way ever repeated in Christianity's traditions I know of. The focus, intent, heart, and meaning had frankly little to do with your traditional Christian reduction of it to some paternal petition. It was a devotion to a liberation of souls from the illusion of our self-imposed prisons of our minds and hearts, into true self-realization. I can scarcely put it in words, but my impression was almost as if any real meaning of it had been lost for 2000 years, though I'm sure some few souls here and there 'got it'. Quite interesting. So much of what you say is just that. They speak the words, and the meaning isn't even close.

Abruptly the words of it took on a new illumination that made sense, in no way ever repeated in Christianity's traditions I know of.

Again, thanks for your clarifying and affirming words. I think that there is MUCH in the Bible, much more than I realized while I was a christian, that resounds with wisdom of the ages...truly, I am wondering if WE are the "true christians" as Jesus intended...lol...

It was a devotion to a liberation of souls from the illusion of our self-imposed prisons of our minds and hearts, into true self-realization.

Thanks again Antlerman...

@asanerman...I am so sorry that I did not reply to your comment...you said:

I am astounded by the "weight" of truth coming forth form so many strange and magnificent places!

I find this to be wonderfully overwhelming; that after I review "what I HAD learned" that I will continue to venture into the "forbidden" texts that is sure to really open up my world view and provide wisdom beyond what I can comprehend at this point. I am in for an adventure...thanks!!!