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About This Club

con·tro·ver·sy / noun / disagreement, typically when prolonged, public, and "occasionally" heated. "the announcement ended a protracted controversy. This "club" has almost nothing to do with recovering from Christianity. You may find here partisan and controversial political and social issues. Please confine all such non-religious discussions to this area. Feel free to play here, but please respect differences of opinion and keep discussions civil. Discussions will be allowed to continue only as long as mutual respect is maintained.
  1. What's new in this club
  2. I grew up in the southern US. As south as the continental US gets, the Florida Keys. In the 70's. It was a blend of liberal sail boat hippies, drug runners, and conservative christians. My family was of course conservative adventist's. I remember getting NRA hats for presents. Everyone was republican in the family. But the churches were more split on the mainland, up in the Broward County area. I remember church members debating around about politics and there were a lot of democrats. I went to boarding academy in Orlando, which, had it's fair share of liberals in the church and s
  3. This is the final result of what essentially started up in the 80's with NWA and the, "fuck the police," sentiment. And the carried on into the 90's with Ice-T's, "Cop Killer." Have a listen to, "The Other White Meat." *Explicit Lyrics* There has been an unmistakable trend that started in the 80's with gansta rap, where criminal gang banger's who saw cops as an obstacle to their unobstructed crime sprees, wanted to shoot cops down. These cops are getting in the way of their crime. So they have to go. It has gained momentum through several generations n
  4. I Agree man alot of this is fabricated BS and as far as im concerned it is for the purpouse of delibrately starting a race war
  5. All good points, buddy. I don't want you to get the wrong idea. I realize that there exist's racism in the world. It's just that I've watched it digress my entire life time. And don't believe what the liberal media is pushing about racism. That's all. It doesn't have to be any bigger a deal than that.
  6. Honest dialog can reach the point where the only option is to agree to disagree. This thread has clearly reached that point for me. I’m bowing out of this discussion.
  7. I don't see that it is necessary for the job, but the job attracts the attitude. Authority correlates with control, and controlling attitudes are not always the best approach to situations.
  8. When you have spent your life studying human development, and personalities, you understand that certain professions attract certain personalities. And you understand peoples motivations and how these personalities tend to act in different situations. It is not an exact science, but you learn to tell when something just might be true. My "opinion" is that O.J.simpson killed his girlfriend, but the "facts" in court didnt support that. The tobacco companies argued that there was no evidence to support cigarette smoking was unhealthy or addictive, but for decades many people had
  9. Both sides need some lessons in how to treat everyone with respect.
  10. I'm not aware of that. I am aware of Trump saying that cartels and criminals who cross the border from Mexico to the US are documented raping and carrying out crime. Of course fear factor is what it's aimed at, so while glossing over the actual context of whatever was said, your point is correct about fear as a driving force for political coercion. In this exchange I know that both Dave and I, at least, have asked several people what they expect to find as a level playing field. What playing field are they discussing? Equal rights stands at this point. No one has shown ot
  11. Yes, I'd like to emphasize this. To any new comers reading this, or even old comers (is that a thing?) many of us here are friends, as our mutual friend Mark used to say, "across the miles", and have known each other for years. Thus many of our disagreements, while appearing to be an interwebs slag match is actually just friends and acquaintances disagreeing with each other like one might expect to find around a table at a bar... the forum being the table I guess in the analogy. There are also conversations going on behind the scenes as well. Yes, and as I pointed out, I
  12. Yes, there's no way that I know of that we can find hard data on people being pulled over for minor traffic violations. Which is why I said before that I "assume" more white's, by default, are probably pulled over for minor traffic violations. Just because of the differences in population, like with the police shootings data. So the situation, objectively, is that we know more white people are shot by police than black people, according to the difference in population numbers between white and black. The same is likely true of minor traffic violations. I'm framing this without an
  13. An authoritarian attitude, IMO, is necessary due to the nature of the job and the type of people the police often have to deal with. I will agree, however, police unions, like all unions, consider protecting their members their number #1 priority. That can result in poorly performing officers retaining their jobs when they shouldn’t. I see where 2 California Sheriffs Deputies were ambushed in their patrol car and shot. They may not survive. A crowd gathered outside the emergency room chanting, “Die cops Die”. If you were a police officer, how would you feel about that? Do you think it wou
  14. An interesting finding in a Pew Research center study in 2017 called "Behind the Badge." 72% of police officers say poorly performing officers are not held accountable. I have always questioned these internal investigations, no matter what kind of organization it is. Another interesting survey was done in 1972 by Robert Balch called, "The Police Personality:Fact or Fiction". It says police tend to be authoritarian minded. I can see that approach "rubbing some people the wrong way" in a democratic society who insist on their rights. HA! It got me arrested when 19 years of age.
  15. You are making a big assumption when you say it was emotional. It was not. It was poorly worded, but not emotional. I was merely making a statement based on my on observations, and a private "confession" made by a cousin who had retired from police work, being chief of police at one time. With some, not all, policemen, if he/she doesn't like surfers, they just may get pulled over, and perhaps somewhat verbally harrassed. But not all these stops result in citations being issued, and nothing goes on record. I can't give you statistics on how often this happens because there is no record of
  16. While the above may sound like a heated response, I realize that actually isn't all that heated. Since you and I have discussed this already between ourselves, I may as well translate some of that back into the public forum. Just so people reading along have the opportunity to understand that we're friends and this isn't going in a bad direction or anything like that. Weezer didn't expand very well on what he meant by saying that white people are not getting pulled over minor traffic violations and white people are not getting shot by police. It was an emotional based post that ou
  17. It is definitely a convoluted quagmire. But, I think if we are going to fight for gender equality, it needs to be genuine equality. Two people made the choice; both of them should be given responsibility. It gets tricky because the man isn't going to carry a pregnancy for 9 months; but many of us would happily support the child, even without the mother, for the next 18-21 years. That is why, though I can't really articulate it well, I think the DNA issue needs to be the determining factor.
  18. Yes. One of the issues I haven't addressed is that suppose a woman gets pregnant (unplanned). She want's the baby, he doesn't. Under current law, she can have the baby, and he has to pay child support (As its called here) until about 18 years of age. So do we need to balance the law? However I see big problems with this - if it is brought in that men don't have to pay if they don't want the baby, then a huge amount of men are suddenly not going to accept father-ship of babies!
  19. Thanks, Dave, for writing this. You raise important points which are usually overlooked. One hears the cry that it is only a "minority" within the black and other communities that creates trouble, causing the reputation which leads to the whole community being victimized by Police. However, the overall response by these communities is considered to be justified when unrest happens. I suspect that the incidents are probably a detonator being used to ignite an underlying, communal animosity towards police. It is clearly a minority of police officers who beat up African Am
  20. I absolutely support assisted dying and have a general DNR in place already. Abortion is a little more complicated for me. I certainly support a woman's right to their own bodies. But we now live in an era of genetics; and, more importantly, ownership of DNA and gene sequences https://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/14/business/monsanto-victorious-in-genetic-seed-case.html. For me, this opens up a man's right to determine what happens to the 49% of the fetal DNA that is his.
  21. Tonight I read what I consider to be one of the best arguments for assisted dying. Hopefully you can read it - sometimes the local herald is inaccessible to non subscribers. http://www.gisborneherald.co.nz/column/20200911/care-not-nullified-by-choice/
  22. This should be objectively and demonstrably if true. I need to see where the constitution doesn't guarantee the rights that guarantees equally to all US citizens. For instance, where a white citizen is guaranteed a constitutional right which a minority citizen is denied. Or a female citizen is denied a right that a male citizen is guaranteed would be another primary, objective example that the constitutional rights are not equally distributed to all US citizens. Subjective opinion applied to issues that have objective facts is main problem that I see with sub
  23. I'm going to be kind here and say this is disingenous Josh. More whites are shot annually by police? Really? Thats your argument? Come on bud you are smarter than this. Any high school student with a basic statistical knowledge can see what's wrong with this argument. Lets not beat about the block. Its utter horseshit. I should not need to point this out: There are more whites than blacks in the US... like WAY more. So of course more whites as a total will get shot etc as a result of having more absolute population numbers. The total numbers by themselves tell us little
  24. Whoa, a lot of posting going on overnight. I don't have time for an in depth reply to what's been said, so here are some quick thoughts (Literally this is what crossed my mind as I was reading) I think this is a strawman. There might be some who think that the human state can be perfected, but I've never run across them. Most of us "political Progressives/leftists" merely think that we can improve constantly. Isn't this a 'rightist' ideal as well? That an individual should constantly strive to become a better version of themselves? We 'leftists' (and I only mean here in t

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