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  2. Sorry, I actually thought you made an universal claim. That is why dialogue us good. I agree and think divine hiddenness is a nonsense argument. Another subject for another time, brother.
  3. Posting this here bc I figure everyone will see it here. Has anyone talked to MOHO or Geezer recently? Some of us have noticed they haven't been around since last year and they are older members. Just kinda wondering if they may have fallen ill or something...... If somebody knows them in real life. maybe ya could just check on em and let us know if they are OK.
  4. What are your thoughts on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Havana_syndrome#:~:text=Havana syndrome is a set,unspecified attacks causing these symptoms.
  5. With respect to this comment: " My sweet mother wanted to post something along the lines of "the more you speak the Truth, the more people will attack you for it" supporting the anti-gay posters." Jesus (Way, Truth, Life - according to Christians) ought to be obvious (imo) and not something you have to search for, look up in a book, or have faith in. So you took my comment out of context and applied it as a universal claim (I do that sometimes, lol). God should either be as obvious (self-evident) as my chihuahua, my kitchen, or anything else that is generally accepted as existing in everyday life and for practical purposes. Or people are just wasting time. Sometimes truth is hidden. Is God hidden? Will we find him? I bet we dont. Other times truth is obvious. The truth of the existence of the stop sign at the corner of my street is undeniable. It's there. I've seen it, touched it. And so have others. Maybe other people are imaginary? Maybe the fact that the stop sign and well, all matter is mostly empty space between the electron and the nucleus leads to a conclusion that nothing is real at all. Maybe all is illusion. All is false.
  6. But in that case, the more you speak against a group's ideology, the more you will be attacked by that group. It is not about truth and lies it seems to me. If you go in a mosque and start cursing Muhammad expect pushback. Or death if you are in Saudi Arabia.
  7. That is easy to explain. Paul's admonition in Romans. For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error.
  8. No, truth is not self evident. Not at all. If ut was, science would be useless, debate would be useless, trials would be useless, police investigion useless, lots of therapy, useless. Truth is hard to define, hard to get. Our perception are failible, our thougts as well. Our memory as well. A lot of our "self evident truths" are just unexamined assumptions. Sorry, I could n't disagree more with a statement than "Truth is self evident". I think it is wrong philosophically, scientifically, psychologically and any another eay and a very dangerous position to hold, that actually stifles gathering and testing knowledge, produces arrogance and oppresion. I actually think truth seeking and observation is harder to educate and takes more effort than indoctrination. To teach and learn.
  9. There was an ascetical Orthodox book that warned that righteousness is often a cover for vainglory. That was one book that helped in that period. It was called On spiritual deception by Ignatius Briancheaninov, a russian bishop saint from 19th century.
  10. Well, for depopulation covid is such a bad one. It severly effects only a small part, but can leave chronic issues. And, again, they do not NEED microchips to infl your behaviour. Pure factual technology is that the brain functions with electromagnetism. It would be feasible to install powerful antennae and transmit some frequency, avoiding having to install 7 billion microchips with so many chances of failure. No, I do not think 5 g will do it, but yes, modern technology, AI, nuclear and biological pose new , unknown risks. Either for destruction or control. An average Joe does not stand a chance. I often think, in this line, if the CIA wanted to kill me, I don't have a chance anyway. I mean, if Bill Gates actually posses that power and tech I m f*ckd. Regardless of any tin foil hats I buy. . If I were religious I would wholly trust God to protect me, not prance around pretending not getting a vaccine will save me from modern tech.
  11. Yesterday
  12. Hello, You seem quite normally all over the place :)). It is like the dam broke. Until the water settles you can expect, well, the unexpected. At first it is more of a just react and survive than plan ahead probably. So no pressure to do smth right now might be a good idea.
  13. @AntiChrist I think this is the same concept and warning in Buddhism against STRIVING, false attachment or delusion, or indoctrination by authority of others instead of proof and reason behind our choice to accept. There is nothing wrong with universal beliefs that come naturally. We all believe in some sense of truth or justice, that is faith based but we inherently hold naturally without striving. We believe what we remember from the past, or dream at night. Though we cannot prove what we dreamed, we generally believe each other. Someday, how people talk about spiritual experiences will be accepted as normal, like discussing the meaning of dreams without any need to argue or prove. When beliefs get so biased they conflict and exclude others, that is what harms relations and communication. As long as we forgive differences, we can all have our own beliefs and process. And just learn to listen to the raw concepts someone means, not get caught up in the language they use to express their thoughts, whether religious, political or neutral. Thanks for the referral and link! One of my favorite mentors quit his Baptist pastoring at 19 and became a lifelong atheist advocate for prison reform, still teaching free grace abd forgiveness for humanity sake but without religion the Bible God or Chr
  14. Hey, I'm glad that you managed to pull yourself out. Congratulations!
  15. Do you live with these people? Or just in the same town maybe? Really your beliefs are none of their business. So if anyone asks point blank you can always say, "My beliefs are rather personal." You dont have to answer a question Yes or No. From looking at posts by other people in similar circumstances I have concluded that it's much less drama if religious nuts only suspect a loved one of non-belief. But when you come out, the major drama follows. There is nothing morally wrong with lying about being a Christian. What IS morally wrong is trying to emotionally manipulate you into keeping a belief system. What IS morally wrong is feeling like you have to hide your real beliefs due to evil Christianity's self defense mechanism. On the one hand it's nice to keep your bond with your family, on the other hand .... antichrist and the illuminati. I would put some physical distance between them and you so you dont have to deal with religious BS on a daily basis with them. You can love them from afar. At some point lying about being a Christian may become more annoying than the family bond. You can also make new family ties with non-religious friends and love interests. If you come out at some point and they all go bonkers over that, that's on them. They will need to deal with it. It's not your problem. You can also tell them how they are going to interact with you or you will not interact at all. Religious passive aggression or aggressive aggression will be met with 'no contact'. edit. I moved far enough away from my parents so I could enjoy living my life. They werent religious, just annoying in other 'parenty' ways. edit. Once you find yourself emotionally detached, on your own and more autonomous as an adult you might find it fun to push their Jesus button by coming out. Watch all hell break loose and have a good chuckle over it. edit. It can be difficult to not want to please your parents, but the beliefs they have contain a component of evil. A religion that makes people afraid of their family's reaction to them thinking differently is evil. The family wont view it that way, of course. edit. Christianity describes that evil in its own bible: Matthew 10:34-35. Good luck.
  16. Sensitive as I am to your current situation, I agree with florduh. Pretending to be something you're not will lead to considerable unhappiness for you; and, if discovered, will make others feel deceived and manipulated. It may be best to come out slowly, in stages; but, eventually, the truth will out.
  17. Welcome to Ex-C! You're really just beginning what can be a long and convoluted journey for some, but perhaps we can help move things along as you get more comfortable with reality. It's early in the game but be advised I am one of the few who insists that honesty is the only viable option for those who deconvert. A love or relationship based on lies serves neither party. Good luck.
  18. Very well said. Our minds get programmed by our parents and family culture in deep ways, and often they aren't good ways. As children, we expect the adults to have a good grasp of reality and help us become prepared to deal with life. Now that we are adults, we can see that nope, adults are often just a mess and pass that on to their kids. But recognizing that and making a conscious choice to be different is our most powerful ability, even if the changes are slow baby steps. Fear is the base power of religion, and that is what duped me into first believing. I was a kid afraid of monsters and saw an advert for "The Exorcist". Scared the shit out of me and led to 30 years of hardcore faith. But it was a childish decision based on Hollywood special effects, nothing more. All of the years of studying the scriptures and trying to find the presence of God were a constant shell-game of belief despite evidence smacking me in the face that there was nothing real about the god I was seeking, and the scriptures that purport to be historical documents are made-up stories. We stick with it for so long because of the social bonds we form with other believers and family. Breaking out of such a social circle can be difficult, but becomes easier when we can shift to another circle. We do need human support, and finding new friends with similar interests can help re-orient the mind and emotions. I used to be a terribly invasive person because church was teaching me that we had to pursue holiness or be damned. That kind of attitude isn't tolerated outside the church except in other kinds of cults and families. When I left church I began learning about music and began hanging out with other amateur singers, performing on stage and hiring instrumentalists. They became one of the social circles for me. When you get involved in things you enjoy, it naturally provides opportunities for relationships. Dance lessons were another fun way to meet others and let go of the church programming. But it does crop up in my mind and emotions occasionally. The songs, the phrases, the mannerisms of people I used to consider important. That's ok. It no longer has a hold on me, but was part of my life experience for decades. So welcome, and I hope we can be helpful to you in finding your strength and forming new paths in life.
  19. Glad you came here and shared. I think you'll find that deconversion can sometimes be a long process and there may be questions you'll continue to have. I hope you'll stick around. I think you have to take things one step at a time. As you grow more and more away from cult-thinking, you might find it unbearable to be anything other than authentic to yourself, or you may find a "comfortable zone" where you quietly disagree, but not really rocking the boat. (I am still in that zone, much older than you). But I'm hoping to one day finally take to heart the fact that if other people emotionally abuse me simply because I don't believe in the invisible things they believe in, that is entirely their problem and not mine. Also if I want to see real change away from harmful religious zealotry in my lifetime, I need to be part of the change. But . . . one step at a time. Best to you.
  20. Hi. First, I want to say that I'm tired as I'm writing this and my grasp on scripture might not be the most accurate. And that my post might be a little all over the place. Hopefully I'm not annoying any of you with a generic de-conversion story. I stopped by ex.christian.net years ago, back when I was still tied to my faith. Initially, I basically held nothing but contempt for you guys. And I guess I'd like to go ahead and apologize for that. Truth is, I never really was a devout Christian. Or, at least not until sometime around last year. When the lockdowns started I fell deep down the conspiracy rabbit hole. I started watching Info Wars and some miscellaneous stuff on Bitchute. I used to talk about it with my grandparents and my mom often, mainly because they were heavily engrossed in Qanon and I wanted them to stop believing that lunacy (in retrospect, it's pretty bad when even Alex Jones thinks it's too crazy). afterwards I decided Info Wars wasn't "true" enough and began subscribing to a bunch of channels on YouTube that introduced me to Gematria and further fueled my eventual meltdown. After a while, it all started to take a toll on me, and I began living in constant fear. So, I started praying more and reading my Bible, trying to get closer to God. I started watching sermons and other videos, and subscribed to several Christian channels. I bought a new KJV because I wasn't comfortable with just the NKJV anymore. Some days before my sister's wedding, I took a bunch of theology books from the free book table at their church (which I never read, I feel awful for taking them). I even stopped talking to my friends on Discord for a while because I was told to "come out and be separate". As far as I knew, I was getting on the right path. I took note of the commandments and tried to follow them. And then there were some things I didn't get. (Luke 14:26) Why do I have to hate my entire family and myself? I did look this up a good bit, and most people seemed to agree that you're not literally supposed to hate your family, simply love Jesus more than them. But while doing this I came across a rather jarring example that went something like, "If God told you to crash your car into a tree with your family, would you do it?" Was "yes" supposed to be the right answer? What the hell!? I reasoned reasoned against this psychotic question with, "no, because God doesn't order people to commit acts of murder". HOO BOY. Something that really got me was the whole concept of "death to self". At first, I assumed this meant the sinful self. But, as I looked that up, I came to know that wasn't the case. "Dying to self" means self-denial to the core, including your own personality. Now, self-denial isn't a concept exclusive to Christianity at all. But I was taught growing up that God created me with my personality, that I was "one-of-a-kind". "God made you special!" as VeggieTales always put it. And now I'm being told that my personality, my interests, my hobbies, my sense of self, are sinful, that I must "put them on an alter and kill them". I must sell everything I have and become a monk, to store up for treasures in Heaven. But why would I even want to go to Heaven if I have to sacrifice everything else to get there? To see my family? Apparently, you have to be absolutely perfect to get to Heaven anyway, which most Christians, my family included, didn't believe. So they probably weren't going to be there anyway. I can only imagine maybe three of my great grandparents being up there, not many else. And even if we were all up there, what's the point? Christian Heaven sounds like an eternal worship service. But the straw that broke the camel's back (well, less of a straw and more of an anvil) was reading about the genocides of in OT. Particularly, the Amalekites. (1 Samuel 15:3) Wasn't God supposed to love and protect children? Aren't they precious in his eyes? Did they have to go as far as slaughtering the infants? Since I started de-converting, though I've gotten better, I'm still slightly afraid of Hell, and absolutely terrified of the Bible prophesy. New World Order, mark of the beast, all that stuff. My mom drilled that into my head starting as young as 7 or 8. And it doesn't help that it's the only thing my grandmother ever talks about anymore. One night, my sister came to visit, the family stayed over and we all had dinner together. Grandmother was talking about the illuminati and the antichrist over steak. Lovely. My siblings didn't like that either, though. I think my dad actually put that best: "You keep worrying about all that mess and it'll eat you up." Also, I'm aware that you guys have a section on coming out, but I've thought over the possible outcomes, and I just can't do it. My grandparents would undoubtable despise me for the rest of their lives, my mom would have her heart shattered and pray over me constantly, and my siblings and my dad, though I do think they'd keep contact with me, would still worry and probably try to convert me back. I hate lying about being a Christian, but it's better than ruining my bond with my family. So, how can I get better at faking it? Anyway, that's about all I had to say. Glad I could get this off my chest.
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