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  2. Report post Posted 1 hour ago Thanks for the link DanForsman. I'd listened to Ken Millers presentation on this trial, but this helped get an overall sense of it. ID is such a strange movement to me, it seems like they embrace the archaeological record, and embrace microevolution, but never macroevolution. So they're left with the conclusion that every new species just poofed into existence the first time we see it appear. And then there's the inevitable question of which designer is it? Do other religions embrace this as science and then claim it's their designer, or is it really just a complicated argument made by Christians. Don't know if you got to watch this but the several day presentation put on by scientists who had volunteered to represent evolution had the judge and the media just mesmerized particularly when the altered chromosome that evolution had predicted was discovered. That engaging testimony had raised expectations for what the creationists would present. The thing that shocked everyone was how simplistic and easily disproved the "evidence" was that the creationists presented. Here was their big chance to demonstrate their alternative "science" and they had all their money and hired their best scientists but lacked the critical evidence. Creation scientists had absolutely nothing to present. The judge just ripped them in his decision.
  3. Well that's both comforting to know, and sobering that others have to go through this too. I'm glad you were able to see the light and deal with it as well. I'll have to keep my expectations realistic and understand that recovery will be a drawn out process.. Yeah this was a big one for me too. I mentioned this to my mom after she said a pastor told her that Egyptians removed Moses from their history books or something. Technically they would have removed a lot more than that from history books and archaeology..
  4. Actually when you posted this I had just ordered Marlene's book. I'm 4 chapters in and its just an absolute game changer for me! I scored so high on the manipulations test that it hurts haha. Thanks for the tips!
  5. Hi MOHO, It was put together over a span of about 6 years. Though I keep it updated as I like to go through certain sections myself, to remind me of the ground I've covered. I have given it recently to a select few who have talked to me over the years since I lost my faith, with the expectation that they may share it with others. So far, only crickets. In fairness, however, I imagine they haven't come close to getting through it and find it rather daunting, as it clocks in at over 1200 pages, with 4 generous further reading sections >.< That was not my original plan! Back in 2012 I planned to finish it rather quickly, thinking it might be 200 pages, and covering just the standard arguments for God that one finds in a philosophy of religion textbook (e.g., fine-tuning, cosmological and moral arguments). But I just kept going and going as I encountered new arguments and read more books. I ended up wanting to cover nearly everything, like the doctrine of Hell, the ugliness of Yahweh, the Resurrection, the origins of Christianity and religion, death, awe and wonder, meaning in life, and so on. It became a serious project. Carrier is in there, yup. So are the so-called Four Horsemen, though they actually are not really a main attraction. I'd say it's filled mostly with professional philosophers, scientists, and biblical scholars that aren't part of the "new atheism" crowd. So, yeah, they may just be looking at certain sections or have just put it aside to read when they have a lot more time. I'm not sure. Will be interesting to see how/if they respond.
  6. Thanks for the link DanForsman. I'd listened to Ken Millers presentation on this trial, but this helped get an overall sense of it. ID is such a strange movement to me, it seems like they embrace the archaeological record, and embrace microevolution, but never macroevolution. So they're left with the conclusion that every new species just poofed into existence the first time we see it appear. And then there's the inevitable question of which designer is it? Do other religions embrace this as science and then claim it's their designer, or is it really just a complicated argument made by Christians.
  7. Welcome to Ex-C, @Luke6188. Regarding the anthology that you put together (are putting together?)? Have you presented it to your fams? I'm interested in their responses as attempts to introduce concepts from Carrier, Hitchens, Hawkins, Minwel et al to family members have led me to the conclusion that folks have to be questioning already to really appreciate enlightenment on that level. Perhaps the mere mention will cause them to question - down the road. Fodder for another topic, that. Welcome again and hope to hear more from you. - MOHO (Mind Of His Own)
  8. I never know how to feel on things like this. I don't really care for what I see as censorship but at the same time it seems that whenever you use someone else's service you're at their whims as far how things are implemented. So no matter what side you're on you really shouldn't ever get too comfortable. mwc
  9. Hi Luke Welcome to Ex-C. Glad to have you with us. Your experience will be helpful for new deconverts.
  10. I expect you know that some crazies in the Toronto Blessing period did actually claim this (and not just that video that was debunked)! ..... Maybe limbs don't grow back but tonsils can: https://www.healthline.com/health/can-tonsils-grow-back Take THAT , non-believers. (haha) Praise be to Jebus! Hallelujah Amen. Glory to the highest. See he has put into our designed DNA a way to regrow tonsils... that really aren't too functional... but PRAISE GOD. What's that? Your limbs were blown off by a mine and you want them to grow back? Sorry, God only does tonsils because tonsils are important.
  11. And his GoFundMe campaign has been shut down. https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/international/113726953/israel-folaus-gofundme-page-shut-down Thoughts on this? Should this be shut down? Essentially it was to pay his legal bills to sue Rugby Australia for firing him because he wanted to post his religious stuff. Of course Christian's will cry foul, free speech etc (Bearing in mind these are all private companies that are shutting him down.) An interesting wider meta discussion surrounding this.
  12. Matt Dillahunty and Don Baker. Lamely Rationalizing Evil. Don talks about how the religious rationalize the evil of their religions. View the full article
  13. Yesterday
  14. Welcome aboard, Luke! FYI, I am NOT your father!
  15. Acceptance is a complex and nuanced thing. It feels good as an X Xian to talk to people with shared perspective in this matter, as it helps to feel less alone in the struggle and it helps to reassert your own sense of reality. I think this website is great in this respect. That being said, people have a variety of beliefs and attitudes. For example, although people usually avoid talking politics here, you might find that a person who deeply shares your perspective on religion will suddenly turn and fiercely disagree with you on a political opinion (or some other matter). That can feel like rejection. Ultimately it is important to learn to accept yourself and feel secure in that, and random ferocity and disagreement, in time, will feel less like personal rejection. It won't matter if you're a good X Xian. It does, however, delight me personally that you escaped toxic Xianity, and this isn't because I care whether you like me ( although it is welcome if you do ). I just personally believe more people should should do the same.
  16. Marlene Winell has done so much good research specific to many of the things you talk about. If you haven’t already do yourself a favor and get a copy of her book, “Leaving the Fold”. https://www.google.com/search?q=Marlene+Winell+videos&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-us&client=safari&dlnr=1&sei=jIUPXaDkGbHd9APho7KIAQ&stick=H4sIAAAAAAAAAONgVuLRT9c3zEguNDIxszB7xOjJLfDyxz1hKYdJa05eY7Ti4grOyC93zSvJLKkU0uFig7KUuASkUDRqMEjxcaGI8OxiYgvLTEnNL17EKuqbWJSTmpeqEJ6Zl5qTo1AGFgcA-ezAgX0AAAA&ictx=1&ved=0ahUKEwjBgrW_4f_iAhUoHjQIHeZlBN4Qw_oBCHc
  17. Demonstrating that the bible is true or false would seem to primarily involve "sticking to the text," wouldn't it? How could it be secondary? It's the text and it's truth value that we're concerned with here. Reading the texts and then analyzing to the best of our ability with everything available in this day and age at our disposal. I'm looking forward to hearing what you think about all of this.
  18. Dan, this is a primary example of the sort of thinking that I'm trying to encourage in others. Take these people to task! Do not let them logic leap with you. Hold them in the corner and don't let them out unless they successfully establish and demonstrate their foundational claims. And to date, they can't do it. The amount of special pleading involved in their arguments is astounding when you finally step back and look at the big picture.
  19. To me this bill of rights could be summed up in - You can live. Which, from experience, much easier said than done. But worth the try. I am, what else can you do except that? Even here, on the site, thoughts come up of, am I being the good, ex christian? Am I really a true one? I am having doubts, maybe I shall be rejected. The whole pattern of the high control group applied even here. Stefan
  20. And anyway, going to doctors and therapists, plus my own research, I cam to the conclusion am dealing with some childhood issues,which have been severly accentuated to the point of complete mental and physical breakdown by religious practices and thought patterns that I, and I need to emphasize this because it is not everyone s experience, have done and experienced in the last years. I see now that that deep existential and identity searching process and questions are quite natural, with their whole set of sometimes disturbing experiences of grief, doubt, confusion, anger, fear, etc.
  21. I looked at the assertive bill of rights, that’s going to help me too I think. We live in a society that seems to demand so much attention, I struggle to find my own space and my parents did just about everything to destroy my boundaries.
  22. Exactly to the point. Geography not supernatural powers determine which religions succeed. Another unrelated but significant unsubstantiated "truth" involves everything Christianity promises and spells out about immortality when we have absolutely nothing to indicate that immortality is even a viable concept. Here again Christian dogma races from zero evidence to spelling out every detail of what is nothing more than a concept. Without evidence of immortality every further assertion detailing a specific about immortality becomes just imagination with something close to a zero probability.
  23. Because they pump out babies left & right, count them as Muslims at birth, & then thoroughly indoctrinate them.
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