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  1. Today
  2. Freed


    I fear God because He can send me to Hell for eternity. But it could be worse.
  3. For the sake of discussing Australian politics briefly, what is your affiliation Robert? I know you're retired from the Australian government. Party affiliation? Independent of some type? Just curious.
  4. Yesterday
  5. Major point many of us make to christian apologist's. Sometimes the comeback is that they used to be atheist then found jesus. A way of finding equal footing of experiencing both sides. But, more often than not, the apologist was never intellectually knowledgeable about atheism, a well informed atheist, or intellectually atheist upon question and cross examination. Pushing back the equal footing of experience tactic in these cases. If they know very little about the history and intellectual content of atheism, and you do have all of this experience behind your position taking, then they can no
  6. I’d be hesitant to kick anybody’s crutch away, even if I’m convinced it’s a crutch of false beliefs. Without it, they might end up thriving as many of us have, but they could also end up in a world of hurt and misery. I wouldn’t want to be responsible for contributing to the latter. On the other hand if somebody asks for help in letting go of the crutch, I’d be ready and eager to help. And that’s how we operate at Ex-C: we don’t go looking for crutches to kick. People come here at some point in the deconversion process. Maybe they’re already convinced Christianity is not truth, or maybe
  7. Not me. I used to suffer from Hadephobia which is the fear of hell, which seems to be more common. I guess I feared the consequences rather than the actual being apparently delivering the judgement. Kind of how you might fear jail more than actually fearing the judge. I guess I have a more complicated relationship with religion. I do far it's incursion and resulting consequences of inserting itself into the public sphere and politics. I think it is ultimately more harmful than good, and I do actively fight against it's incursion into the public sphere, but I still hold the value th
  8. Talking to a Christian online and he said "Atheists are evil. They see religion is a crutch, helping people through life and providing support and yet they want to kick that out from under them. Some people need that support, some people find great benefit in it and yet on these discussion boards there are always atheists trying to destroy that positive energy in peoples lives." Initially this argument sounded quite reasonable but I could see several good reasons to fight against the idea of a crutch: - The Dumbo effect. People believe they need the crutch because they have never
  9. Interesting! I was once a member of IONS, about twenty years ago, and would attend local meetings. I was going through a "New Age" phase at the time.
  10. Beings like Satan were assumed to exist by cultures that needed an explanation for why bad things happened. This was at a time in human history when the only possible explanation for why complex things existed was that a powerful being created them. A god. So you had a god who created all the good things. But what about the bad things? Some cultures developed the idea that there were good gods and bad gods, fighting it out with humans as recipients of their benevolence or malice, depending on which deity was dominant at that moment. In Judaism originally, bad things only happened to peop
  11. Yep, you've covered most of the highlights. Free will is a flimsy excuse. When I went through this I would try to say that free will is not the freedom to choose among all imaginable choices but simply the freedom to choose among the available choices. So this god could had omitted the "evil" aspect and everyone could have chosen just fine from all the choices that existed. Just like choosing desert. Would you like cake or pie? Both are good choices. You don't need to add a third, sort of secret, poison option for a true set of choices. Nor does adding this danger make anyone really "a
  12. Yep. To my way of thinking, if he actually existed, God is not perfect. His creation was not perfect, or part of it would NOT have become Satan and turned on him. It is all a bunch of gibberish.
  13. For what it is worth, (nothing?) speaking of "scientific" studies on prayer, I attended an IONS (institute of noetic sciences) conference about 20 years ago. They set up an experiment where they planted 2 patches of grass in identical conditions, using identical seed, and gave them identical care. They had some people in another state pray for one patch as they were growing, but not the other, and measured the growth. They said the patch that was prayed for, grew slightly better. HA! I immediately started praying for the grass in my pasture!
  14. I've been wondering about if there really is no demon and it's all just God. I've made a similar post/different website and now I have a little more closure to determine whether I sound logical or not. What always bothered me is how if there were no evil then no one would have a reason to worship God. Christians love using free will as an excuse to say why evil is in the world but in my opinion having free will doesn't mean being evil. Also if humans true nature is to be evil, (without free will) then doesn't that mean that's God's true nature too? Adam and Eve had no k
  15. I use a tablet and accidentally touched my own "quote" button, if that is what you were referring to. Sometimes I hate these touch screens. I was wanting to encourage freshstart in her nursing career during this very trying time.
  16. A casserole might help their psychoneuroimmune response as well...not the green bean casserole, though.
  17. Today I read your thread and I thought about prayer, which seems to have mixed scientific experimental results... I'll just say mostly negative results. Then I thought about the placebo effect and how there is good scientific evidence about how it is helpful. So I googled prayer and placebo effect and happened upon 'psychoneuroimmunology.' https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/305921 Several articles mentioned that a reduction in stress had a positive physiological effect on the immune system. In the 1980s neurons were discovered as part of whatever organs are respo
  18. Hello all you atheists (and theists) out there! Today Matt Dillahunty is joined by DB Ramsey, author of “Speaking of God We Don't Know Sh*t”. Mr. Ramsey’s book takes a look at religious practices and god beliefs, learn more at https://www.dbramsey.com/ Our first caller, Michael in CO is engaged to a Christian who wants to baptize his daughter and make him go to classes about it first. No one should be forced to participate in religion. Making you go to classes seems more like she is trying to change you. Decide what you are comfortable with and have those discussions with your wife. Paul in En
  19. The biologist seems to make the case for religion being an important evolutionary help to people, or the religion would fade to nothing. I made the following comment. Times at the beginning of statements are when someone just made a point in the video. My feedback based on 30 years of fundamentalist belief that ended 12 years ago: 2:40 But the message of oneness from DMT bears no resemblance at all to the religious rules that Moses is said to have delivered. There are two versions of the 10 commandments (Exodus 20:2-17, Exodus 34:12-26) and neither has any
  20. Last week
  21. I suffered through a lot of Deitiphobia during my freshman year of college.
  22. ... or, I might add, to changing anybody’s mind right here. Especially once it gets heated. Spoiler alert: it almost always gets heated. ^^^^^ This! ^^^^^ The political arguments are usually among those of us who are “Fully Deconverted“. The fact that we’ve reached this state is testimony to the success of this site. But when we have nothing new to add regarding deconversion, that’s when we spend our energy on this peripheral stuff. Peripheral to the purpose of this site. And sometimes it cause us to neglect new members and their needs. As well as making potential n
  23. There's value, sometimes, in changing the world. Also, in just shooting the shit. And, also, sometimes, in just shutting up.
  24. Oops, sorry, yeah missed that. I don't pick up on subtly or social cues sorry so you do have to be straightforward with me. Awkward on the internet... pain in the ass real life. As a quick viewpoint from me: I enjoy discussing politics with people I'm familiar with and know. So that's where ToT fills that need. I'm not interested so much in some random strangers opinion on some forum. So you could say Ex-C is still helping from this point of view. However, as always, we will respect your wishes. This thread is getting to the point where its just a case of waiting and seeing what ha
  25. Who else suffers with this???
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