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Goodbye Jesus

In Transition


Seeking

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Since I haven’t fully deconverted, I don’t know if I’m allowed to post my story-in-progress here. If there’s a better place for it, feel free to move/delete.

 

My (long and probably too detailed) story thus far:

 

I grew up in a strong Christian family, and we all attended a smallish Baptist church in the upper-Midwest. I realized I was a sinner and accepted Jesus as my savior at age 5 or 6 and was baptized around age 11. My family was very involved in the church; my father was the choir director, my mother ran children’s church. I went to AWANA from age 5 onward and was active in the youth group once I reached my teen years. I attended church every Sunday morning and evening, Bible study/AWANA Wednesday evenings, and youth group on Saturdays. I believed everything I was told 100%. I sang in the choir and joined various youth outreach ministries. All of my friends were friends I knew from church.

 

While I was growing up, I was pretty happy. I was home-schooled for most of my pre-college education, and I had good relationships with my parents and siblings. In addition, I had a fun bunch of Christian friends that I spent a lot of time with. I did my devotions regularly but found myself bored stupid with the Bible readings; I’d rush through those so I could get to the interesting part – the devotional with anecdotes. I’d pray, but it always felt like I was just talking to the inside of my head. My motives/desire to go to church all revolved around the social aspect – seeing my friends.

 

At age 18, I left home for college, and it was there that I began feeling truly disgruntled toward God. I attended a small, reformed-Presbyterian, very Christ-centered college where, in addition to my normal class load, I sang in the choir, went to church every Sunday and chapel on Wednesdays, and had Bible classes each semester. But I realized at that time that other people talked about joy, thankfulness, peace, loving God, how God had changed their lives, and so on…and I felt none of that. We would have prayer groups, and I loathed having to pair up with someone and pray aloud, because I had nothing to say. I realized that I only read my Bible because I was supposed to. I only went to church because my friends went. Church was an obligation, not something I enjoyed or looked forward to. While I loved the pastor and the people, I couldn’t care a bit about the sermons – I don’t remember learning one single thing. Same for the OT and NT studies classes. However, I still believed everything in the Bible.

 

A few years after college, I got married to a great man (we are still happily married). We attended a Lutheran church (Missouri-synod) for the first few years of marriage, and I was even the interim music director for about a year. Once they found a full-time director, however, I told them I wouldn't be coming back. I had come to realize that the only reason I was going to church was so I wouldn’t feel guilty for not going to church. That seemed like a very bad reason, and dishonest.

 

For the next six years, my husband and I were churchless. While I felt guilty every single Sunday morning, I felt no true desire to return. A church service held no interest for me, but I did occasionally look into finding a church-based Bible study. Since I had no emotions for God, I decided to appeal to my intellectual side, so I attended a Greek NT translation class for two years. Over the course of the study, I translated the book of 1 John. Due to my love of languages, I found it to be quite an interesting and enjoyable process, but all the verses about loving God really reinforced the reality that I do not feel any love – or other positive emotion – toward God.

 

From my high school years onward, there have been many times that I’ve begged God to help me feel something. Help me feel Him in my life; help me have a desire to be close to Him; help me want to obey Him and love Him and learn about Him; give me faith to believe He’s there. Nothing has changed. Years of prayer and begging have changed me not a bit, except to harden my heart and make me doubt: After all, why would God not want me to love Him? Hebrews 11:1 says “Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things unseen.” Well, I have no faith, so I have no evidence. Where does that leave me?

 

Due to this complete absence of evidence of God in my life, this history of unheard/unanswered prayers – prayers that seem to be in line with what God would want – I have begun to wonder if I am one of the unlucky un-elect. I have long wanted to believe, grow, feel peace, love God, praise Him – everything the Bible says I should do and everything I see and hear in the godly people around me. But my heart is dead.

 

Of course, this has led to countless theological questions. When I read the Bible, I don’t feel enlightened or inspired or interested or thankful; I feel frustrated, confused, and like things just don’t make sense. I have often found myself thinking, “Why do we think these particular books were the right ones to put in the Bible? Why do we trust that Paul, for example, was inspired by God and not just writing his own deluded thoughts? And why on earth are books like Hebrews in the Bible, when scholars don’t even know who the author is?” More and more often, I find myself wondering, “How can people believe this?!” 1 Corinthians 1:18 says, “For the word of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing…” Apparently that’s me. I try to talk myself into believing, but that turns it into works-based faith, which is un-Biblical. Besides, I’ve always enjoyed my brain’s rationality, and forcing myself to believe something that I find unbelievable is ridiculous.

 

About a year ago, I met with a counselor from our current church (we’ve been attending for about two years). We discussed this issue, but his focus was so heavy on emotionalism (vs. logic) that it made me very uncomfortable. I shouldn't have to turn off my brain to believe in God. I recently met with another counselor at church, and when I told her that my life was pretty blissful – except for this religious dilemma – she said, “Well, it won’t always be blissful. Something’s going to happen in your life to bring your heart back to God, and I pray it happens soon.” WTF? Is she praying for bad things to happen to me??

 

In all other areas of my life I am happy. I have a fantastic husband whom I love very much. I have a wonderful family (parents, et al; no kids, thankfully!). I love my job; it’s a joy to go to every day. But I have been on the fence with my beliefs for nearly 20 years now, and I am sick of it. This whole situation with God is wearing me down. It needs to be resolved.

 

Toward that end, I’ve been reading a lot, some books and articles from Christian apologists, some from the “other” side. In the last couple days I’ve also read dozens of the deconversion stories here. I am amazed to see how many people have already gone down the road I fear I’m currently on. However, I’ve decided to quit relying on others to explain away the problems of Christianity, and instead, I’m going to let the Bible speak for itself. While I’ve read the entire Bible in the past, I’ve never read it with a truly open mind. So, today I bought a 5-subject notebook, and I’ve decided to read the Bible cover-to-cover, noting all writings about heaven and hell, positive and negative attributes of God, election vs. free will, faith, and _______. I haven’t decided on a fifth topic, yet. (Do you have any suggestions?) I’m hoping that this little exercise with help me clarify my questions/problems with Christianity, one way or another.

 

Anyhow, I know this has been a very long-winded post, but I felt the need to get it out there. If you got this far, thank you for reading. :)

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Welcome, Seeking.

 

I am quite familiar with the path you're on. Study of the Bible and its history, along with useless begging for god to help me with my faith has ultimately led me to atheism. Sure, there was a short detour through other religious thought, but once I started thinking rationally there was no turning back.

 

I hope your journey isn't too painful.

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First of all, welcome!

 

When I read the Bible, I don’t feel enlightened or inspired or interested or thankful; I feel frustrated, confused, and like things just don’t make sense.

That is exactly how I felt every time I tried reading the Bible. I never gained any knowledge out of it. Or if I did, it would be the opposite of what I was being told at my local church. That's one thing that led me down the path to my de-converson.

 

While I’ve read the entire Bible in the past, I’ve never read it with a truly open mind. So, today I bought a 5-subject notebook, and I’ve decided to read the Bible cover-to-cover, noting all writings about heaven and hell, positive and negative attributes of God, election vs. free will, faith, and _______. I haven’t decided on a fifth topic, yet. (Do you have any suggestions?) I’m hoping that this little exercise with help me clarify my questions/problems with Christianity, one way or another.

I tried starting a similar project earlier this year. I bought a $10 NIV Bible from Wal-Mart and decided I would try to read it straight through, cover-to-cover. I wanted to highlight every verse that I thought was absolute nonsense or that I thought I could never bring myself to agree with. That way, I would be able to flip through the book at the end and actually see how much of it I couldn't accept. Unfortunately, I never even got out of Genesis, and I've since put my project on hold. I got too frustrated because I was marking almost every other verse, and an ever-increasing amount of college studying hasn't helped, either. :Hmm:

 

Anyway, I would love to hear about your documentation as you read through the Bible. Maybe we can compare notes if I decide to start back up. :P

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I'm impressed with your study! You will find a few former calvinists on here (me, for one!). Don't be afraid to really question. And you shouldn't have to turn off your brain for anything. So use it and explore the questions you have. I couldnt' believe it when my former pastors wife said she believes the apostle creed because of all the learned men that came before and studied it. "So, don't think for yourself " was the message I got in that one. Let us know how that study goes! ANd for a fifth topic, how about prophecies or micracles? Just a thought!

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I too deconverted after reading the bible. The more I studied it on my own, the more my reason kicked in. Welcome to the forum!

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Welcome, Seeking! It's really cool that you studied Biblical Greek, I only took a semester of it but loved it and have always wanted to take some more classes in it.

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Hi Seeking, and welcome.

 

You have been offered some good advice so far from people who have been down a similar path.

 

For me it was the Bible itself that provided the parachute for me to bail out of the meme of xtianity and religious dogma. As a seminarian I began to study it more critically apart from church dogma. I began to question the motives and ultimate plans of biblegod. The more I read and the more I asked "WHY", the less sense it made and more cruel biblegod became.

 

I ultimately came to the same conlusions as Thomas Paine did in "The Age of Reason", available all over the internet. As you set out on your study, I for one would urge you to take a peek at Paine's reasoning. At least, having begun your study with a literal lifetime of influenced understanding you can meter that with sage words from a wise person that examined the scope of the bible from reason alone.

 

Although many questions about the plot in the bible became insane ramblings upon further investigation, I think one observation kind of settled it for me.

 

Looking at the Plan-O-Salvation, I asked myself if there could be a better way of saving people from this alleged lifeboat to heaven. I figured that if YHWH is omnipotent then he can pretty much create any condition he desires (oxymoronic for a god to have desires, but according to the babble YHWH is more HUMAN than we are for chrissakes) he could do so EX NIHILO...so if YHWH wants human pets on the Streets-O-Gold, he creates that condition to the happiness of himself and hopefully the others around him...

 

And now, the REST of the story. According to the Plan-O-Salvation, many are asked and few are chosen. According to history more than 90 PERCENT of the poor bipeds that have travelled on this Blue Marble. That is one hell of a waste, isn't it? Am I missing something here?? So with our current Plan we have 10% making it and 90% skiing on the Lake-O-Fire for eternity.

 

Which did babblegod want? Sheep in heaven or Ice Capades in hell? Looks like the latter. So, could I, if I were in the god business, have come up with a better plan that created better results, less pain and FAR LESS waste?? Yup. I would get a 100% return on my godly investment, people would live in heaven and there would be no ETERNAL CRICKET matches...

 

Ok, that was long. But, I hope you see what I'm getting at. Don't look at the bible from the dogmatic platforms that may have been constructed for you. Look that the main stories and ask what was truly accomplished by these alleged acts of gawd and cheesesauce.

 

All the best!

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EDIT TO THE ABOVE: Duh, 90% will burn in hell.

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Thanks for a great story! I think the absolute best way to see the folly of Christianity is to read the Bible. You are definitely on the right course. The Bible was made up by primitive desert tribesmen who had little knowledge of how the world really works. Consider some of the creatures which are mentioned in the bible; witches, wizards, sorcerers, spirits, ghosts, giants, dragons, sea monsters, satyrs, and unicorns. Do these things sound real to you?

 

Other mythical oddities of the Bible include a talking snake, a talking jackass, a talking bush, 900 year-old men, a man whose super-human strength resided in his hair, 3 men who walked unharmed through fire, a man who lived 3 days in the belly of a fish, a wandering star which somehow led to a particular building, and a corpse which stood up and walked away after 3 days in a tomb. It’s irrational to believe in such things without a ton of hard evidence – yet there is none. It’s just hearsay – “well, so-and-so says” – but no one even knows who the so-and-so’s were!

 

Clearly, all this stuff was just made up. No half-educated adult living today, who was not indoctrinated in this stuff since childhood, could take it seriously or would consider even for a moment that this stuff is really history. Yes, the Bible instructs us to just believe without questioning, but how can this be sensible advice if the Muslims and Hindus say exactly the same thing about their ‘Holy’ books? If someone we don’t know says, “Just trust me,” shouldn’t we be suspicious?

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Thank you all for the warm welcome. There's a lot of interesting, thought-provoking information to be found on this site. I'm going to continue looking around here while I undertake my sure-to-be-lengthy Bible study. (I think the fifth category of study will be "puzzlements", which could include anything from miracles to inconsistencies to things that make no sense.)

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EDIT TO THE ABOVE: Duh, 90% will burn in hell.

Exactly. Would anyone really want God as your financial adviser? God: "Here, I have a great plan. It's a plan where we invest 100%. We create a whole universe with 20 sixtillions star, and billions of people with souls and free will. And we make life a complete mess and everything about religion confusing. And in the end less than 10% will go to Heaven and the rest we'll torture for eternity! Isn't that great?" ... Jesus: "Yeah, lets do it!"

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EDIT TO THE ABOVE: Duh, 90% will burn in hell.

Exactly. Would anyone really want God as your financial adviser? God: "Here, I have a great plan. It's a plan where we invest 100%. We create a whole universe with 20 sixtillions star, and billions of people with souls and free will. And we make life a complete mess and everything about religion confusing. And in the end less than 10% will go to Heaven and the rest we'll torture for eternity! Isn't that great?" ... Jesus: "Yeah, lets do it!"

 

:lmao:

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Makes you think God must have been bored out of his mind creating the world. Just imagine to exist for eternity and being a lonely sex-crazy guy and no chick, or never figure out where you came from or where you're going, what your mission is, who is on your side, or when the pizza will arrive, or just the frustration of having to pee but you're to busy to go, or you don't know where the Hell the bathroom is... (No, Hell would not be an option to relieve oneself, since it would kill the fire.) Yes, all this would make anyone go crazy... Wait, this sounds like some of the World of Warcraft guys!?!

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Welcome to the forums, Seeking.

 

I have nothing to add to the above good comments except my own hearty congratulations to you for letting your mind do your thinking.

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