Adam + Moses + My Dad = Insanity

[Seeking]

So, my fundy parents were here for a week for a visit. During this visit, when trying to convince me of the inerrancy of the Bible, my dad said in complete seriousness:

 

"Adam lived 900 years and was an eyewitness to everything that happened in the first part of Genesis, and he told Moses about it, and Moses wrote it all down."

 

 

I was stunned speechless. I mean, I know my parents are literalists when it comes to the Bible, but seriously?!? Even they should be able to figure out the fundamental flaws in that! If he truly believes that, then he must think Adam rode in the ark with Noah! He also must be disregarding the basic math: According to Genesis, Adam lived 900 years, but the flood was 750 years after the Bible says Adam died, and Moses was around 900 years after *that*!

 

My opinion of my dad's intelligence has dropped another notch or two.

[dagnarus]

Has your dad actually read the bible?

[Deva]

That sounds exactly like something my father would say. This is I refuse to discuss religion with my parents. They absolutely believe everything their preacher tells them and read the Bible like it was today's newspaper. God said it, I believe it that settles it type of thing.

 

There is no reasoning with this kind of certainty.

[Shyone]

That's kind of scary.

 

It reminds me of a patient that said he could project blue lights from his eyes. I smiled and carefully walked away.

[Brakeman]

Hmm. I don't know.. maybe he thought Adam didn't live 900 CONSECUTIVE years?

[dB-Paradox]

That's kind of scary.

 

It reminds me of a patient that said he could project blue lights from his eyes. I smiled and carefully walked away.

HOLY SHIT, I can't can't stop laughing! Fuck me, that's funny!!!

[OpheliaGinger]

Hmm, no. Gawd told Moses the finer details.

[Skepticaldude541]

Hey, no discrepancies here. God just didn't mention Adam being on the ark or living 1,300 extra "secret" years. Yahweh is sneaky like that, leaves out important details.

[dB-Paradox]

Hey, no discrepancies here. God just didn't mention Adam being on the ark or living 1,300 extra "secret" years. Yahweh is sneaky like that, leaves out important details.

Don't you mean El is sneaky like that? Or no, wait....he changed his title from El to Yahweh with Moses, so you're right. But what about Baal? Yahweh has Baal-like properties, such as being the storm god. No, wait....he used to have Baal-like properties, but after he kicked the shit out of Baal, he became a still small voice. What about the council of gods that Yahweh sits on? Maybe those gods are the sneaky ones? No wait....Yahweh destroyed those gods, too. Okay, I'm confused. Was Israel monotheistic or polytheistic? Who are we even talking about again?

[★ Citsonga ★]

Speaking of the alleged long lives and such, I once did some calculations with the genealogies and realized that Methusela, supposedly the oldest living person ever, died the same year as the flood. Now, if long lives were supposedly rewards for righteousness, as the OT claims, then why wasn't Methusela found righteous by gawd when he was looking to wipe out the world? Why was Noah the only righteous man found? Was the oldest living person a vile, wicked heathen who drowned in the flood?

[★ Citsonga ★]

Sorry my first reply was off on a tangent. It was just something that crossed my mind.

 

"Adam lived 900 years and was an eyewitness to everything that happened in the first part of Genesis, and he told Moses about it, and Moses wrote it all down."

 

WOW! It's hard to believe that any literalist familiar with these stories would make that ridiculous of a gaff!

[Shyone]

Speaking of the alleged long lives and such, I once did some calculations with the genealogies and realized that Methusela, supposedly the oldest living person ever, died the same year as the flood. Now, if long lives were supposedly rewards for righteousness, as the OT claims, then why wasn't Methusela found righteous by gawd when he was looking to wipe out the world? Why was Noah the only righteous man found? Was the oldest living person a vile, wicked heathen who drowned in the flood?

I guess he died of (super)natural causes.

 

Perhaps he died of fright from the thunder. Or was struck by lightening. Or died of old age the day the floods started...

 

Interesting speculation.

[Franko47]

That's kind of scary.

 

It reminds me of a patient that said he could project blue lights from his eyes. I smiled and carefully walked away.

 

 

 

Oh, sorry. That was me. And that only works after a mind-meld with my cat.

 

 

Anyway, it's intriguing that people have this desperate need to believe that these Biblical stories and themes are completely true. Everyone else's mythologies (Greeks, Egyptians, Assyrians, et al) are apparently all bullshit to the Bible Christian, except for the Hebrew myths. This rather profound dissonance just never occurs to many of them.

 

The indoctrination is so very thorough.

[Seeking]

Anyway, it's intriguing that people have this desperate need to believe that these Biblical stories and themes are completely true. Everyone else's mythologies (Greeks, Egyptians, Assyrians, et al) are apparently all bullshit to the Bible Christian, except for the Hebrew myths. This rather profound dissonance just never occurs to many of them.

 

In the course of that conversation with my parents, they also said that I was "clearly trying to put God in a box, to limit him." I asked, entirely seriously, "Are you trying to limit Zeus?" The deer-in-the-headlights look I got from them both was hilarious!

 

They asked me where my morals could possibly come from, if not from "God's unchangeable word," and I said "It all boils down to 'Do unto others as you would have them do unto you,' which predates the Bible." My dad said, "I'm pretty sure that first appeared in the Bible." My husband piped up and said, "No, it was found in Confucian philosophy thousands of years before the Bible was written." My dad's replied: "I doubt that."

 

When I told them about my recent study of the OT, and how I found contradiction after contradiction, my dad said, "No, there are no contradictions in the Bible." I said there were, and he said, "No, there aren't." I told him I had kept track and had a lengthy list of them which I'd be more than happy to show them, and then he said, "Well, in YOUR opinion there are contradictions."

 

He also went on a tirade against evolution. He said "Evolutionary scientists take genetics to a certain point, and then they turn to magic!" He was utterly serious when he said that, the irony of that statement completely lost on him.

 

There truly is no reasoning with some people. And to think - I used to believe my dad was a really smart guy.

[StevoMuso]

And to think - I used to believe my dad was a really smart guy.

In your Dad's defense he probably is really smart, but he simply does not have enough information. My Dad has 3 engineering degrees, a Master's degree, and an engineering PhD specializing in patent law. He was also chairman of Mensa in Pretoria for many years and is considered by many as "really smart". He is still a fundamental Christian and simply walks out of the room if I say anything about religion. He doesn't want to know. But IMO there is a huge difference between "ignorance" and "stupidity". Ignorance is simply the lack of knowledge, while stupidity (again IMO) is the inability to gain knowledge.

 

I'm pretty sure your Dad is actually a highly intelligent man who has sadly been indoctrinated to the point that he doesn't wish to gain knowledge that may hurt his faith. He has the ability to gain knowledge but doesn't want to. Does that make sense?

[Seeking]

he doesn't wish to gain knowledge that may hurt his faith. He has the ability to gain knowledge but doesn't want to. Does that make sense?

 

Yes, that's probably true. I remember I used to be terrified to learn anything that might add to my doubts, almost to the point of putting my hands over my ears and saying, "La, la, la, I can't hear you!" Perhaps that could explain his attitude.

 

It's difficult with my father, however, because his two favorite topics are politics and religion, the two things I cannot agree with him on in any way. He is not only extremely narrow-minded religiously, he is also one of those right-wing conservative Americans who thinks Sarah Palin is great and assumes anything said/done by a liberal must be evil. He is turning into a conspiracy theorist in his old age. It's frustrating, but there is nothing I can do about it.

[★ Citsonga ★]

And to think - I used to believe my dad was a really smart guy.

In your Dad's defense he probably is really smart, but he simply does not have enough information. My Dad has 3 engineering degrees, a Master's degree, and an engineering PhD specializing in patent law. He was also chairman of Mensa in Pretoria for many years and is considered by many as "really smart". He is still a fundamental Christian and simply walks out of the room if I say anything about religion. He doesn't want to know. But IMO there is a huge difference between "ignorance" and "stupidity". Ignorance is simply the lack of knowledge, while stupidity (again IMO) is the inability to gain knowledge.

 

I'm pretty sure your Dad is actually a highly intelligent man who has sadly been indoctrinated to the point that he doesn't wish to gain knowledge that may hurt his faith. He has the ability to gain knowledge but doesn't want to. Does that make sense?

 

I agree to an extent. However, to not want knowledge about what one is basing his/her whole life on is, in my estimation, stupid. But, of course, intelligent people do sometimes do stupid things.

[★ Citsonga ★]

In the course of that conversation with my parents, they also said that I was "clearly trying to put God in a box, to limit him." I asked, entirely seriously, "Are you trying to limit Zeus?" The deer-in-the-headlights look I got from them both was hilarious!

 

Priceless!

[StevoMuso]

It's difficult with my father, however, because his two favorite topics are politics and religion, the two things I cannot agree with him on in any way. He is not only extremely narrow-minded religiously, he is also one of those right-wing conservative Americans who thinks Sarah Palin is great and assumes anything said/done by a liberal must be evil. He is turning into a conspiracy theorist in his old age. It's frustrating, but there is nothing I can do about it.

It still hurts though, these are our parents. It would be refreshing if they would stop trying to "parent" us and simply try to "understand" us. I guess it's a bit much to expect them to agree with us but perhaps it would hurt so much if they could just see us, acknowledge us, or even admit that their parenting worked to the extent that we are independent/adult enough to make rational decisions using skills they taught us.

[Shyone]

It's difficult with my father, however, because his two favorite topics are politics and religion, the two things I cannot agree with him on in any way. He is not only extremely narrow-minded religiously, he is also one of those right-wing conservative Americans who thinks Sarah Palin is great and assumes anything said/done by a liberal must be evil. He is turning into a conspiracy theorist in his old age. It's frustrating, but there is nothing I can do about it.

It still hurts though, these are our parents. It would be refreshing if they would stop trying to "parent" us and simply try to "understand" us. I guess it's a bit much to expect them to agree with us but perhaps it would hurt so much if they could just see us, acknowledge us, or even admit that their parenting worked to the extent that we are independent/adult enough to make rational decisions using skills they taught us.

There is so much garbage attached to religion that understanding may not be possible.

 

Imagine if you committed a serious crime. Would you expect your parents to "understand" you? They would be disappointed and upset, and they would "blame themselves" for your "downfall."

 

It's not that they don't recognize your decision, they think that this is a skill they did not teach. Like how to butcher a baby. It's just totally foreign to them, and associated with the exact opposite of "good."

[StevoMuso]

Imagine if you committed a serious crime. Would you expect your parents to "understand" you? They would be disappointed and upset, and they would "blame themselves" for your "downfall."

 

It's not that they don't recognize your decision, they think that this is a skill they did not teach. Like how to butcher a baby. It's just totally foreign to them, and associated with the exact opposite of "good."

Shit Shyone - that's brilliant. Never thought of it that way before. Thanks :-)

[Shyone]

Imagine if you committed a serious crime. Would you expect your parents to "understand" you? They would be disappointed and upset, and they would "blame themselves" for your "downfall."

 

It's not that they don't recognize your decision, they think that this is a skill they did not teach. Like how to butcher a baby. It's just totally foreign to them, and associated with the exact opposite of "good."

Shit Shyone - that's brilliant. Never thought of it that way before. Thanks :-)

You're welcome. It sickened me to write that. I wish it weren't like that for so many Christians. It would be easy to deconvert them if their worldview wasn't so myopic.

[StevoMuso]

It would be easy to deconvert them if their worldview wasn't so myopic.

Yeah, Bummer how myopic people tend to be so narrow-minded (hehe).

 

[Couldn't resist that chirp. I was once accused by a Believer of being "myopic" and had to look it up (not a commonly used word here in Africa).]

[Tabula Rasa]

I remember the way I rationalized how the Hebrews knew how the world was created without having been there to see it.

I figured that God told Moses during one of their chats on MT Sinai.

 

Now I know it's all bullshit, but it made a sort of sense at the time.

[Seeking]

I remember the way I rationalized how the Hebrews knew how the world was created without having been there to see it.

I figured that God told Moses during one of their chats on MT Sinai.

 

Now I know it's all bullshit, but it made a sort of sense at the time.

Yes, and that's how I used to see it, too. I could understand if that's what my dad believed, but to think that *Adam* told Moses?