Im A Christian Again

[OnceConvinced]

Here's a story for you Justyna:

 

It's the story about the boy who cried "Jesus is coming".

 

Once upon a time there was boy who cried, "Jesus is coming!"

Everybody rushed to greet their loving savior Jesus, but found he was not there. The boy had been lying.

A year later he did the same again. "Jesus is coming!"

Everybody came ready to witness the glorious return of their savior, but once again he wasn't there.

A year later the boy did the same again "Jesus is coming!"

Everybody from every where around came running, but found Jesus was not there.

Year in and year out this boy claimed Jesus was coming and every time it turned out he was misleading them.

Then one day Jesus did return. The boy cried out "Jesus is coming!"

But no one believed him. So all those people were thrown into hell and tortured for all eternity.

Jesus said to the boy. "Why did you mislead these people for so many years? Why did you tell them I was coming when I wasn't? You gave them false hopes and warnings for years, so it's no wonder they didn't believe you once I finally did arrive. So it is your fault that they are now being tortured by me in the pits of Hell. For that, you shall join them and may it teach you a hard lesson for lying year in and year out."

 

The moral of the story?

 

You can't blame people for not believing you when you are continually warning them of things that never happen. So only you can be held accountable for their disbelief.

[EdwardAbbey]

Well I decided to leave the church and God when I first joined this site about a year ago or so. I wanted to be free from everything, I wanted to think of myself, I wanted to live the way I saw it fit. Well I did. I really didnt go off the rails or anything, but I stopped going to church for a while, stopped reading the Word and just did what I wanted. I used bad words, I saw bad movies, I said what I wanted and did not aplogize. It wasa all good in the beginning. I was determined to "break-free." But after a while I felt empty, I felt like my life had no meaning, and I longed for God again. I gave it a long time. I tried to be in a relationship, I tried to focus on my studies, I tried to go out and socialize and it all didnt do anything for me. I was wondering, all over the place. I wasted my time and resources. I was in want of something deeper, and I felt weary from searching all the day.

 

God never let me go. Through it all, He has been here just waiting for me to come back. I started goin to church again, reading the Word again, and spending quality time with Him. It was what I needed. I never felt better. My life is not perfect but I am starting to get happy again. I dont understand why I had to go through that, but I did. I was so determined to leave God, but He didnt let me.

 

What do you mean when you say, God never let you go? Did he grab you by the shoulder or hold your hand, literally? Or was it all in your mind only?

[Guest Justyna]

I guess this thread has ran its course.

 

The bottonline is this: Never say never. I never thought I would be an ex-Christian, but I was. Likewise, no one here can say they are NEVER going back to Christ. Stranger things have happened in life, and God can do all things

[Guest Net Eng]

I guess this thread has ran its course.

 

The bottonline is this: Never say never. I never thought I would be an ex-Christian, but I was. Likewise, no one here can say they are NEVER going back to Christ. Stranger things have happened in life, and God can do all things

 

I'm saying never.

 

When you see the evidence that all this shit is made up by human hand you cannot go back.

[Mr. Neil]

I just heard the rusty creak of an escape hatch.

[Shyone]

I guess this thread has ran its course.

 

The bottonline is this: Never say never. I never thought I would be an ex-Christian, but I was. Likewise, no one here can say they are NEVER going back to Christ. Stranger things have happened in life, and God can do all things

 

I'm saying never.

 

When you see the evidence that all this shit is made up by human hand you cannot go back.

I'm trying to imagine what kind of mental gymnastics I'd have to do to believe anything Christianity has to say.

 

1. Bible written by man, borrowed material from older primative cultures that worshipped false gods.

2. Mistakes and errors, contradictions, and this includes the crucial elements of the scheme of salvation.

3. Prayer is ineffective - a real life contradiction to the gospels.

4. Dead men don't come back to life.

 

So I can spend my life trying to believe something clearly false and wrong, put my faith in something obviously flawed, and worship a god so I won't wind up in an imaginary hell.

 

How is this possible to believe?

[Realist]

I guess this thread has ran its course.

 

The bottonline is this: Never say never. I never thought I would be an ex-Christian, but I was. Likewise, no one here can say they are NEVER going back to Christ. Stranger things have happened in life, and God can do all things

 

... EXACTLY! Justyna's run out of ideas and of course her non-existent god is not able to assist!

[Realist]

I just heard the rusty creak of an escape hatch.

 

... Amen brother! Amen!!

[Mr. Neil]

What's the difference between a God that doesn't do anything and something that doesn't exist?

[Ouroboros]

I guess this thread has ran its course.

 

The bottonline is this: Never say never. I never thought I would be an ex-Christian, but I was. Likewise, no one here can say they are NEVER going back to Christ. Stranger things have happened in life, and God can do all things

I agree on that point. I can't say for sure that I won't change, but with my current insight into Christianity, psychology, sociology, science, philosophy, and many other topics, I can't see how just words would sway my views. If God does exist, and God would prove his existence to me somehow, I wouldn't be standing there denying the evident. But the thing is, right now, it is NOT evident that God exists, and is most definitely not evident that Jesus every lived, was God's son, or was resurrected.

 

In essence, words are just words, real life experiences changes our views a lot more than the blah-blah-blah we constantly hear.

 

You believe Jesus exists because Jesus talks to YOU. But Jesus does not talk to ME. So should I believe in Jesus because you believe in Jesus? What about people who hear voices from other gods? Why don't you believe them? It's the same situation but reversed.

 

Put it this way. You say you were an Ex-Christian for awhile. Why didn't you go back to Jesus immediately when someone told you that Jesus existed? Why did you have to have an experience before you changed? Are you willing to deny us the same experience and chance that you had? Are you really considering that you have the right to switch your views based on your experiences, but we are not?

[Guest Justyna]

God is doing many things....people who are ex-Chrisitans might now know because they do not associate with Christians, dont go to church and generally are not in the loop since they choose not to be. God is doing a lot in the world and in peoples lives individually.

 

How do you think the world would be if there were no Christians? I am afraid of Atheists in the sense that they can kill, do evil, and they dont see anything wrong with it. This is not all Atheists, but some of course. There is no accountability because they think there is no God, so they think they can do all sorts of bad things. We Christians (although not perfect) we try to not sin because it keeps us from Jesus, and we will also have to give an account for eveyrthing we do. If you believe that there is no God, and that you can do what you want....then you will, and not care.

[Thackerie]

I guess this thread has ran its course.

 

The bottonline is this: Never say never. I never thought I would be an ex-Christian, but I was. Likewise, no one here can say they are NEVER going back to Christ. Stranger things have happened in life, and God can do all things

 

I'm saying never.

 

When you see the evidence that all this shit is made up by human hand you cannot go back.

 

 

True. But I guess one could suffer a brain injury or an illness such as alzheimers that causes loss of memory and the ability to think rationally. That's the only situation that would bring me back to believing in nonsense.

[Overcame Faith]

God is doing many things....people who are ex-Chrisitans might now know because they do not associate with Christians, dont go to church and generally are not in the loop since they choose not to be. God is doing a lot in the world and in peoples lives individually.

 

How do you think the world would be if there were no Christians? I am afraid of Atheists in the sense that they can kill, do evil, and they dont see anything wrong with it. This is not all Atheists, but some of course. There is no accountability because they think there is no God, so they think they can do all sorts of bad things. We Christians (although not perfect) we try to not sin because it keeps us from Jesus, and we will also have to give an account for eveyrthing we do. If you believe that there is no God, and that you can do what you want....then you will, and not care.

 

Are you describing your fears of yourself? Because you surely are not describing any atheists I know.

[Guest Justyna]

Overcame Faith,

 

Of course I am not talking about anyone you know..I have no idea who you know.

 

I am making a point that most crimes are not commited by Chrisitans....but by atheists. Thats just a fact. Were there Christians that were off there rocker and killed others? Of course, but a very small percentage. I am not saying that all atheists are like this, cause they are not.

 

The point I am trying to make is that although most here do not like Christianity, can you imagine how horrible the world would be without us? Scary.

[Overcame Faith]

From where do your statistics come that most crimes are committed by atheists?

 

And I can imagine a far better world without the lies of Christianity scaring people with fears of hell and a vengeful god which doesn't even exist.

[Super FZL]

Overcame Faith,

 

Of course I am not talking about anyone you know..I have no idea who you know.

 

I am making a point that most crimes are not commited by Chrisitans....but by atheists. Thats just a fact. Were there Christians that were off there rocker and killed others? Of course, but a very small percentage. I am not saying that all atheists are like this, cause they are not.

 

The point I am trying to make is that although most here do not like Christianity, can you imagine how horrible the world would be without us? Scary.

 

Think again, Justyna. http://www.holysmoke.org/icr-pri.htm

.2% of the prison population is atheist. About 9-16% of the general population is atheist.

[Guest Justyna]

Super,

 

Isnt that just in the US?

 

Also, those prisoners who claim to be "Christians" and "Catholics" have probably never even been to church in their lives.

 

That study is useless.

[Overcame Faith]

Super,

 

Isnt that just in the US?

 

Also, those prisoners who claim to be "Christians" and "Catholics" have probably never even been to church in their lives.

 

That study is useless.

 

I knew this was coming and almost posted your response for you, Justyna. It is typical. If someone committed a crime then, by definition, they can't be a christian. Therefore, no christian ever commits a crime.

 

And I suppose no christian ever lies, either, or commits adultery, or child mollestation, or steals the offerings given by the flock?

 

You ought to read what The Word is posting. According to him neither you nor anyone else is a true christian either, only he is. I guess it's just a matter of one's perspective.

[Yalta]

God is doing many things....people who are ex-Chrisitans might now know because they do not associate with Christians, dont go to church and generally are not in the loop since they choose not to be. God is doing a lot in the world and in peoples lives individually.

 

How do you think the world would be if there were no Christians? I am afraid of Atheists in the sense that they can kill, do evil, and they dont see anything wrong with it. This is not all Atheists, but some of course. There is no accountability because they think there is no God, so they think they can do all sorts of bad things. We Christians (although not perfect) we try to not sin because it keeps us from Jesus, and we will also have to give an account for eveyrthing we do. If you believe that there is no God, and that you can do what you want....then you will, and not care.

 

I've heard that argument before, and I too had that same thought even after I stopped believing in Christianity. I thought "well, I have morals, but what would happen if everyone stopped believing in God?" I thought that the belief in a god of some sort was false, yet at the same time, a good thing to have for society. It took me exposure to things like religious wars, inter-denominational conflict, bigotry caused by religious faith, etc. to change my views on that.

 

Anyway, morality comes from within. It comes from our own beliefs. One thing that strongly indicates this is the case, is how different people within the same faith interpret their faith based on their own morals. Anti-gay Christians point to lines in the Bible that are anti-gay. Christians who are not anti-gay point to lines about love, or state that the Bible says far more bad things about heterosexuals than it does explicitly about homosexuals, or state that Jesus never said anything about homosexuality.

 

Two different moral beliefs, yet both justifying their own by pointing to Christianity. So their beliefs come from within, not from God.

 

Heck, why don't Christians burn witches anymore? Why doesn't anyone use the Bible to condone slavery? It was used to both condone it and condemn it during the same time period. Both the Union and Confederacy were very Christian, and there was a lot of talk of the God of the Bible by both sides. Yet, they had opposite views on a very contentious issue. And they believed their views came from the Bible.

 

So, what would happen if everyone who is Christian stopped being Christian immediately? I think that people's morals would largely stay the same, although beliefs that literally come only from Christianity and not from personal experience or from within (such as possibly anti-gay beliefs, to name one) would vanish, as the justification for those beliefs would be gone. But beliefs that, for instance, murder or physical abuse are wrong, would still be held by everyone who already held those beliefs.

[Realist]

Overcame Faith,

 

Of course I am not talking about anyone you know..I have no idea who you know.

 

I am making a point that most crimes are not commited by Chrisitans....but by atheists. Thats just a fact. ...

 

and WHERE do you get these "FACTS" from?? See christians have no defence system available to them but to start telling untruths when backed into corners! Go check some figures on religious States in the USA for instance!!

[Overcame Faith]

I am making a point that most crimes are not commited by Chrisitans....but by atheists. Thats just a fact.

 

Justyna, if you can't support this statement with statistics from a reliable source, then how would you characterize your having made an unsupportable statement?

[Realist]

Super,

 

Isnt that just in the US?

 

Also, those prisoners who claim to be "Christians" and "Catholics" have probably never even been to church in their lives.

 

That study is useless.

 

... maybe try reading this just to help your understanding a little??

 

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article571206.ece

 

for some reason the link is not working. Here is the article "cut and pasted."

 

Times September 27, 2005

 

Societies worse off 'when they have God on their side'By Ruth Gledhill, Religion Correspondent

RELIGIOUS belief can cause damage to a society, contributing towards high murder rates, abortion, sexual promiscuity and suicide, according to research published today.

 

According to the study, belief in and worship of God are not only unnecessary for a healthy society but may actually contribute to social problems.

 

The study counters the view of believers that religion is necessary to provide the moral and ethical foundations of a healthy society.

 

It compares the social peformance of relatively secular countries, such as Britain, with the US, where the majority believes in a creator rather than the theory of evolution. Many conservative evangelicals in the US consider Darwinism to be a social evil, believing that it inspires atheism and amorality.

 

Many liberal Christians and believers of other faiths hold that religious belief is socially beneficial, believing that it helps to lower rates of violent crime, murder, suicide, sexual promiscuity and abortion. The benefits of religious belief to a society have been described as its “spiritual capital”. But the study claims that the devotion of many in the US may actually contribute to its ills.

 

The paper, published in the Journal of Religion and Society, a US academic journal, reports: “Many Americans agree that their churchgoing nation is an exceptional, God-blessed, shining city on the hill that stands as an impressive example for an increasingly sceptical world.

 

“In general, higher rates of belief in and worship of a creator correlate with higher rates of homicide, juvenile and early adult mortality, STD infection rates, teen pregnancy and abortion in the prosperous democracies.

 

“The United States is almost always the most dysfunctional of the developing democracies, sometimes spectacularly so.”

 

Gregory Paul, the author of the study and a social scientist, used data from the International Social Survey Programme, Gallup and other research bodies to reach his conclusions.

 

He compared social indicators such as murder rates, abortion, suicide and teenage pregnancy.

 

The study concluded that the US was the world’s only prosperous democracy where murder rates were still high, and that the least devout nations were the least dysfunctional. Mr Paul said that rates of gonorrhoea in adolescents in the US were up to 300 times higher than in less devout democratic countries. The US also suffered from “ uniquely high” adolescent and adult syphilis infection rates, and adolescent abortion rates, the study suggested.

 

Mr Paul said: “The study shows that England, despite the social ills it has, is actually performing a good deal better than the USA in most indicators, even though it is now a much less religious nation than America.”

 

He said that the disparity was even greater when the US was compared with other countries, including France, Japan and the Scandinavian countries. These nations had been the most successful in reducing murder rates, early mortality, sexually transmitted diseases and abortion, he added.

 

Mr Paul delayed releasing the study until now because of Hurricane Katrina. He said that the evidence accumulated by a number of different studies suggested that religion might actually contribute to social ills. “I suspect that Europeans are increasingly repelled by the poor societal performance of the Christian states,” he added.

 

He said that most Western nations would become more religious only if the theory of evolution could be overturned and the existence of God scientifically proven. Likewise, the theory of evolution would not enjoy majority support in the US unless there was a marked decline in religious belief, Mr Paul said.

 

“The non-religious, proevolution democracies contradict the dictum that a society cannot enjoy good conditions unless most citizens ardently believe in a moral creator.

 

“The widely held fear that a Godless citizenry must experience societal disaster is therefore refuted.”

[Guest Justyna]

This is simple to explain. Those who are in jail are more likely to say they are religious for various reasons. First of, dont forget that a prison is often a place of converson. Also if a prisioner is active in religious duties, this counts as good behavior and can help them get out earlier. It does not help any prisioner to identify himself/herself as an atheist. There are no rewards for this. So that is why I am not suprised at these results.

[Mr. Neil]

God is doing many things....people who are ex-Chrisitans might now know because they do not associate with Christians, dont go to church and generally are not in the loop since they choose not to be. God is doing a lot in the world and in peoples lives individually.

Sure! That's the reason! Sure it is!

 

Okay, Justyna. You've got an audience right here. We're paying attention to you. Whip your Bible open to Matthew 21:22. It says, in no uncertain terms, that if you believe, you shall receive whatever you ask for in prayer. No out-of-context bullshit. That's exactly what it says.

 

Pray for us, Justyna. Move a mountain. Make the toy figurine on my desk do a dance. Stabilize the climate, for Christ sake!

 

Meanwhile, I'll demonstrate my own prophetic skills. I predict that you won't do it, because you know it doesn't work.

 

How do you think the world would be if there were no Christians? I am afraid of Atheists in the sense that they can kill, do evil, and they dont see anything wrong with it. This is not all Atheists, but some of course. There is no accountability because they think there is no God, so they think they can do all sorts of bad things. We Christians (although not perfect) we try to not sin because it keeps us from Jesus, and we will also have to give an account for eveyrthing we do. If you believe that there is no God, and that you can do what you want....then you will, and not care.

Oh good, the appeal to consequences.

 

If we don't have God to keeps us in line, then we have no standard for right and wrong.

 

...and that would be bad.

 

That's always the part that gets left off. You're saying we have no moral compass, and yet you're appealing to just such a thing.

 

And beside that, if there's no God, then there's no God, which means that we have to play with the hand we've been dealt anyway. It doesn't mean anything to say that you're following the Bible, because in an atheist world, it's just someone else's arbitrary morality. And that alone completely destroys your position.

 

Morality is hard, Justyna. This isn't Staples. You don't get to press the "Easy" button.

[Realist]

This is simple to explain. Those who are in jail are more likely to say they are religious for various reasons. First of, dont forget that a prison is often a place of converson. Also if a prisioner is active in religious duties, this counts as good behavior and can help them get out earlier. It does not help any prisioner to identify himself/herself as an atheist. There are no rewards for this. So that is why I am not suprised at these results.

 

... So have YOU ever spent time in secular countries like Denmark, Finland etc?? Have YOU ever witnessed the MUCH safer environments that exist in these countries than your own?? I certainly have!