Guest riverrunner Posted December 5, 2010 Share Posted December 5, 2010 http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2010/november/27.40.html they hardly acknowledge that we think its bs! Mostly they think we want to 'sin' or something. Why the hell would I sin against an all powervul vengeful god if I thought he existed? arrgggh! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evelyn Posted December 5, 2010 Share Posted December 5, 2010 That was an interesting read. I had to chuckle when I read this, "Only two were honest enough to cite moral compromise as the primary reason for their departures. Many experienced intellectual crises that seemed to conveniently coincide with the adoption of a lifestyle that fell outside the bounds of Christian morality." Yeah, right. Um, yeah, I finally listened to my intellectual crises and realized that xianity is BS! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darklady Posted December 5, 2010 Share Posted December 5, 2010 I remember a pastor telling me that people leave so they can divorce, and be with the 'other' person, then they return. Personally I think people leave because they engage in critical thinking. leaving a bad marriage is just a bonus. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulofSilver Posted December 5, 2010 Share Posted December 5, 2010 They got it so wrong. It's clearly because we think the Christian God is our enemy and hate him because of it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dagan Posted December 5, 2010 Share Posted December 5, 2010 I actually read the bible and saw what a pile of cobbled-together nonsense it really is. Oh wait. I mean... I just wanted to sin. That's right. Sin like crazy. Wait I really haven't sinned at all. Hmmm. Where are all my meaningless sexual encounters? Blasphemies? Drunken debauchery? Got a tally of zero going on here. Must be doing ex-christianity wrong here. Better read that article and see how it's done! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzy Posted December 5, 2010 Share Posted December 5, 2010 http://www.christian...mber/27.40.html they hardly acknowledge that we think its bs! Mostly they think we want to 'sin' or something. Why the hell would I sin against an all powervul vengeful god if I thought he existed? arrgggh! They got it so wrong! I'm not a hedonist type of person, never was, never will be. I did not have a problem with Christian morality - I didn't struggle with not having sex outside of marriage etc. So no, that's not the reason AT ALL! But if it makes them sleep better..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lunaticheathen Posted December 5, 2010 Share Posted December 5, 2010 Morninghawk Apollo (who renamed himself as is common in Wiccan practice) discussed his rejection of Christianity with candor. "Ultimately why I left is that the Christian God demands that you submit to his will. In Wicca, it's just the other way around. Your will is paramount. We believe in gods and goddesses, but the deities we choose to serve are based on our wills." lolwut? Where did they find this "Wiccan"??? This is NOTHING like what I've read in ANY neo-Pagan text. And if it's an interpretation of Thelema, they're still off. I smell the feces of a male bovine. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest I Love Dog Posted December 5, 2010 Share Posted December 5, 2010 The whole concept of Christianity is BS! Walk up to any person in the street and ask if they were born a "sinner" or their beautiful children or grandchildren are "sinners" until they "accept Jesus" into their lives! If anyone suggested to me that my children and grandchildren are nasty, horrible, disgusting "sinners" I would prolly punch them in the mouth, even though I'm a pacifist! What a heap of crap and they wonder why people are dumping Christianity in droves. Long live non-belief! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eugene39 Posted December 5, 2010 Share Posted December 5, 2010 When they cited leaving for intellectual reasons, that category would include me. IMO, no one who has seriously read the OT can still believe that Jesus was Messiah. When that pillar collapses, the whole building called Christianity falls down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deva Posted December 5, 2010 Share Posted December 5, 2010 From the article in question: Even those who adopted materialist worldviews or voguish spiritualities traced their departures back to what happened in church. Leaving for "voguish spirituality"? Committing to another religion or spiritual practice because its trendy? What a strange idea. Goes to show how all other religions are dismissed as having no value. It couldn't possibly be because some of them have a moral code or teaching superior to the Christian system either. Also what happened in church might have been a reason for some to leave but certainly not all. I am also suspicious of what the Wiccan said. I don't know much about Wicca, but have never heard this idea -- it sounds more like something coming from Anton LaVey's Church of Satan.. I think they interviewed Wiccans until they found one that said what they wanted to hear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrotherJosh Posted December 5, 2010 Share Posted December 5, 2010 What a retarded, arrogant and ignorant article! Am I surprised? No. But obviously xtians are starting to get worried because this just means revenue will be down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leinad89 Posted December 5, 2010 Share Posted December 5, 2010 Paul exhorted the church at Ephesus to strive to mature every believer, so that "we may no longer be children, tossed to and fro by the waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by human cunning, by craftiness in deceitful schemes" (Eph. 4:14, ESV). Isn't Christianity changing it's doctrines all the time, if you think of all the denominations present? Doesn't it knowingly seek out cunning ways to attract new members? How did Paul know what was right? How did the first (presumably the best) christians, Paul included know what to live after, when the new testament didn't exist? They surely didn't go for Jewish laws and scriptures? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legion Posted December 5, 2010 Share Posted December 5, 2010 Ultimately we will have to undertake the slow but fruitful work of building relationships with those who have left the faith. This means viewing their skepticism for what it often is: the tortured language of spiritual longing. I applaud the author's stated intent to establish relationships with us. However I think skepticism is not an expression of spiritual longing; it stems from a desire for veracity. Further, many of us think skepticism can be often be a healthy thing. And once we've listened long and hard to their stories, and built bridges of trust, we will be ready to light the way back home. I know of a biologist's basement which burns like the sun, so he better be prepared to be bright indeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 5, 2010 Share Posted December 5, 2010 I am also suspicious of what the Wiccan said. I don't know much about Wicca, but have never heard this idea -- it sounds more like something coming from Anton LaVey's Church of Satan.. I think they interviewed Wiccans until they found one that said what they wanted to hear. I think they just made up what they think Wicca is about, and figured their audience are xtians anyway, so who will find them out? That is my experience with xtians. I've been told Carl Sagan is a Pagan, and when I pushed the guy further (cause I am a fan of Sagan) I got him to admit he has never read any of Carl's books, and was only repeating what he had read "in excerpts" from something he got in his church. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Net Eng Posted December 5, 2010 Share Posted December 5, 2010 What pushed them out? Again, the reasons for departing in each case were unique, but I realized that most leavers had been exposed to a superficial form of Christianity that effectively inoculated them against authentic faith Here we fucking go again. The True ChristianTM argument. /sarcasm Gee if only I had the the loving concern of real christians I'd never strayed from the path. It couldn't possible be that I read the bible, researched its origins and came to the conclusion that Christianity was a myth?? /nosarcasm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foolish girl Posted December 5, 2010 Share Posted December 5, 2010 I actually read the bible and saw what a pile of cobbled-together nonsense it really is. Oh wait. I mean... I just wanted to sin. That's right. Sin like crazy. Wait I really haven't sinned at all. Hmmm. Where are all my meaningless sexual encounters? Blasphemies? Drunken debauchery? Got a tally of zero going on here. Must be doing ex-christianity wrong here. Better read that article and see how it's done! Geez, Jbbr- you're RIGHT! I feel as though I have FAILED as an EX-c.... Damn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foolish girl Posted December 5, 2010 Share Posted December 5, 2010 http://www.christian...mber/27.40.html they hardly acknowledge that we think its bs! Mostly they think we want to 'sin' or something. Why the hell would I sin against an all powervul vengeful god if I thought he existed? arrgggh! According to Ken Ham and my Husband (oh that I should string those words together)...I am just rebellious. Didn't you know? Next time he tells me that I might go and stay out all night (I'll just get a room- have a hot bath and chat with brain.) When I come home I can tell him "call me fat...I'll get fat" call me rebellious? I'll be rebellious. See how I don't really want to be rebellious? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deva Posted December 5, 2010 Share Posted December 5, 2010 I am also suspicious of what the Wiccan said. I don't know much about Wicca, but have never heard this idea -- it sounds more like something coming from Anton LaVey's Church of Satan.. I think they interviewed Wiccans until they found one that said what they wanted to hear. I think they just made up what they think Wicca is about, and figured their audience are xtians anyway, so who will find them out? That is my experience with xtians. I've been told Carl Sagan is a Pagan, and when I pushed the guy further (cause I am a fan of Sagan) I got him to admit he has never read any of Carl's books, and was only repeating what he had read "in excerpts" from something he got in his church. Yes, that is also possible. They just made it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legion Posted December 5, 2010 Share Posted December 5, 2010 The term "Pagan" for them might be a catch-all phrase for people who revere nature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stryper Posted December 5, 2010 Share Posted December 5, 2010 I think this was the most telling and honest part of the article: " Another unsettling pattern emerged during my interviews. Almost to a person, the leavers with whom I spoke recalled that, before leaving the faith, they were regularly shut down when they expressed doubts. Some were ridiculed in front of peers for asking "insolent questions." Others reported receiving trite answers to vexing questions and being scolded for not accepting them. One was slapped across the face, literally. At the 2008 American Sociological Association meeting, scholars from the University of Connecticut and Oregon State University reported that "the most frequently mentioned role of Christians in de-conversion was in amplifying existing doubt." De-converts reported "sharing their burgeoning doubts with a Christian friend or family member only to receive trite, unhelpful answers." " After reading a few of the testimonials on this site, the above is a common thread. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legion Posted December 5, 2010 Share Posted December 5, 2010 Yeah Stryper, right on. For the committed believer all doubts must ultimately prove to be unfounded. I wonder how much dust you can sweep under a rug before you find that your rug is laying on a hill of dust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chosendarkness Posted December 5, 2010 Share Posted December 5, 2010 Of course the only reason someone would abandon belief in gods that demand human sacrifice is because something's wrong with them. What a joke. I'm glad though they they're making a public record of their ignorance. In the future people will look back and be amazed and wonder how things could have been like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirPhoenix Posted December 5, 2010 Share Posted December 5, 2010 I can honestly say that I did all sorts of things that were "sinful" while I still believed, and yes, I did feel guilty for it. However, with me it was almost as if my intellectual problems with Christianity and my guilt were compartmentalized from each other. When i did have my intellectual breakthrough, I actually kept my guilt pent up for a while. One day I was sitting thinking (I really like thinking) and realized that the guilt wasn't necessary. Every ounce of guilt I ever had over doing supposedly "sinful" things like drinking, sex, etc, just vanished. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nightflight Posted December 5, 2010 Share Posted December 5, 2010 I left because I finally got fed up with the self-hatred, self-condemnation and the fear that the "Good News" fosters in spades. In other words, the "Good News" wasn't really all that good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest riverrunner Posted December 5, 2010 Share Posted December 5, 2010 I sent a letter to the editor. My suggestion is for many of you to do the same. I sent them one before I posted the link. it was something along the lines of I am not a fickle 20 something but actually studied the bible and concluded there are no miracles, prayers do not get answered other than randomly, there is no reason to think we go on after we die - in other words your (my former) religion sounds a lot like a myth. jesus yoke was easy and his burden was light. we have no yoke anymore. we have no burden anymore. why can't they see we really just don't believe its true. they have to make up a host of other reasons. they think they have their ass covered with the 'faith' thing. sorry not good enough. i don't have faith in fairies or allah or wicca or ghosts why is faith in bible any better? have you ever heard the jesus was either a lunatic, liar or lord argument put forth by C.S. Lewis? he fails to consider the fourth most likely reality: legend. jesus didn't write anything, his followers did, and they made shit up. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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