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  • Our picks

    • Here's an interesting episode that breaks down popular fallacies that many theists who are knowledgeable about the arguments prefer to steer clear of: 
      • 3 replies
    • Fundamentalist Christians tend to say either you are a Christian or you are not a Christian.  That may be true for the irrational tribal identity of their churches, but it does not make sense in terms of philosophy and theology. If you read the Bible as deliberate metaphor, as symbolic allegory, not as literal history, then it is possible to retain the ethical value of the texts while accepting none of the surface claims.  The value of the Bible is enhanced by assuming the original authors did not intend that any of their supernatural poetry should be read as literal fact.
        • Like
      • 39 replies
    • One of the benefits of logic is the ability to test whether a particular proposition is true or not.  It often follows the progession: A=B, B=C, C does not equal D; therefore, the proposition that A=D is not likely to be true.  With this in mind, let's look at a particular proposition and follow the progression to its logical conclusion.  
      If logic is the absolute standard for reasoning , then everyone should either agree with the conclusion, or, if disagreeing, be able to point out a flaw in the logic.  Let's begin:
      PROPOSITION: god is both all-loving and all-powerful. 
      OBSERVATION: Evil exists
      A. If god is both able and willing to prevent evil, then evil would not exist.
      B. If god is neither able nor willing to prevent evil, then god is neither all-loving nor all-powerful. 
      1. If god is able to prevent evil, but not willing to, then god is not all-loving. 
      2. If god is willing to prevent evil, but not able to, then god is not all-powerful.
      CONCLUSION: The proposition that god is both all-loving and all-powerful is not true.
      DISCUSSION: It is possible that god is all-loving but not all-powerful.  It is possible that god is all-powerful but not all-loving.  It is possible that god is neither all-loving nor all-powerful, which raises the question: why worship god?
      But it is not possible for god to be both all-loving and all-powerful. 
        • Thanks
        • Like
      • 85 replies
    • My ex christian beliefs are as follows in 10 simple points, each of which has been the focus of one debate / discussion or another around here: 
      1 ) I believe that all religions are man made social constructs geared towards politicizing ancient mythology and folklore. 
      2 ) I believe that no one really knows with certainty the answer to the question of origins or destination. 
      3 ) I believe that the bible is demonstrably false from the outset as a guide to the truth of the universe or the human condition. 
      4 ) I believe that anything basing itself on the assumption that the bible is true is automatically false, as the bible is demonstrably false. 
      5 ) I believe that morality is an evolved concept which continues to evolve and has never been static or handed down from on high. 
      6 ) I believe that the morality of the biblical writings is long since outdated and mostly irrelevant to modern society. 
      7 ) I believe that modern scholarship has revealed the truth about the biblical writings and the evolving theistic concepts contained therein. 
      8 ) I believe that it's both intellectually honest and well intended to expose what truths can be demonstrated about the bible and christianity, through counter apologetics. 
      9 ) I believe that as painful as it may be at times, it's ultimately for the greater good that christianity and similar religions are losing membership and declining into the future under the weight of their own growing lack of relevance. 
      10 ) I believe that humanity doesn't need the fluff and circus show of religion in order for people to do what's right, be decent, and get along. 
      What do you believe???? 
        • Thanks
        • Like
      • 71 replies
    • Is there sufficient evidence to believe complex life could have evolved on its own from non-life without some intelligent creative force?  Is it at all plausible that some intelligent being, perhaps from another universe, could have been the creator of the complex life on our planet (and any other planet in this universe that may have complex life) using evolution as a tool? 
      • 67 replies
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    • mwc
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  • Recent Status Updates

    • DarkBishop


      Happy St. Paddy's day all you non-saint-believing hooligans!!! 🙂
      · 2 replies
    • Joshpantera


      Merry Christmas ex-C Falls!!!!
      Ju ju's peddles, ju ju's peddles!!!
      · 1 reply
    • DarkBishop


      Well I'll be damned! (Pun intended) I just reached the Illustrious "Grand Master" Rank! 😃 who'd a thunk it? 😊 
      · 2 replies
    • DarkBishop

      DarkBishop  »  Deidre

      Well Hello Deidre, its been a long time. Kick back your heels and stay awhile. 🙂
      · 6 replies
    • DarkBishop


      Thanks Rev!! Gotta give a fist bump on that 🙂 👊 
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  • Recent Posts

    • mwc
      Well, I guess we could then summarize the story as follows:        Pilate *doesn't* want to perform a crucifixion but does so anyway to placate the Jews who demand it.        Pilate *doesn't* perform a proper crucifixion removing the body early to placate those very same Jews (and because he didn't feel like it to begin with).        Something seems wrong here.        I would have to add that Pilate would have to report all of this up the chain of command.  If he literally did kill someone for treason and then showed mercy on that person and their cohorts that would not reflect on him in a good way at all.  A lot of people like to mention that Sejanus was looming large over Pilate and this is why he acted the way he did here.  That he was trying to fly under the radar.  However, Sejanus was a traitor to Tiberius and executed for it.  If Pilate killed someone for the very same crime then it likely was reported all the way to Rome (in this case Capri) since Tiberius was very much looking for such insurrections until he died so flying under the radar would be impossible once Pilate granted the request for the execution.  Again, I don't side with those who hold the position that this would have all been held secret unless the Jews were to report it and Pilate was therefor beholden to their wishes.  Pilate would report it, as was his job, and a proper execution would make him look all the better in-spite of his ties to Sejanus whereas leniency and a cover-ups would weaken his position.             mwc  
    • TheRedneckProfessor
      Indeed, @freshstart, "god" must fill the gaps.  It has to be "god."  It couldn't possibly be that the concept of an all-loving god is simply a direct contradiction to the very real problem of suffering; because that would leave a gap where faith once stood.  And who would fill that gap, if "god" is imaginary?  No, better to cling to the comforting bliss of cognitive dissonance. 
    • freshstart
      Once again, the imaginary friend of Christians, of course, needs a human to explain "his plan" (which, incidentally includes a shit-ton of human suffering).  These same humans assume that "adequate understanding" - will be achieved through either (a) the audacious ability to know the mind of their supreme imaginary friend or (b) a magical revelation after death.  In both cases, Christians blindly follow biblical doctrines that are cruel, illogical, and inhumane by most global standards. . . just because it "feels right" and because they cannot begin to fathom (or absolutely refuse to entertain) other explanations for the mysteries of life or the universe - outside of the bible. I, personally, actually do not exclude the possibility of a higher power/intelligence, call it whatever you want.  But to assume that the bible gives an accurate depiction of this higher power (if it exists at all) is making a ridiculous leap.
    • DarkBishop
      Ideally your spirit, consciousness, soul if there was one. It would be nice. But being free to live on a separate realm of existence as a free spirit sounds better. Its nice to think about and I really hope that I am pleasantly surprised with an afterlife.  But I'm not gonna base my life decisions around the prospect.    DB
    • DarkBishop
      It could of happened that way, if it even did happen. But your forgetting a key part of the story. Supposedly Pilate didn't agree with the execution. And one thing is historically accurate. There was already unrest in isreal. It wasn't long after this that they had the Jewish revolt and Rome destroyed the temple. Maybe the execution was to stop a riot and taking the body down was a mercy for Jesus (who he didn't want to execute in the first place) and his family.    If it did happen and if Pilate didn't agree with it and felt forced kill Jesus, I could see the reasoning behind letting them have the body.    But this is all hypothetical with a lot of (Ifs). We all know what the Bible says happened at the very least isn't accurate. Hell it could be that he just died of natural causes. I mean he was over 30 and that was toward the high side of life spans back then. And then his story got mixed with another person's story that was crucified, etc etc. With a dash of roman catholic finesse here and there and poof! Baby God born of a virgin in a manger.    I just think that it all started with an actual person that inspired the myths.    DB
    • mwc
      I like the way you guys are trying so hard to get a body out of a tomb when the usual Roman practice was to leave it on the cross to simply rot away and then just toss whatever was left into a ditch.  The thought that there was a Joseph of Arimathea that had enough pull to sway Pilate to hand over the body seems highly unlikely.   Josephus had enough pull with Vespasian to get three of his friends taken off crosses (two lived) but that was only because he had a lot of sway with Vespasian that he built over the war (there's no point in going into it here).        Beyond that the idea that Pilate was aware that the Jews would riot because a prisoner was left on a cross, especially over a religious festival, just means that he would account for that by his usual methods of having guards at the ready or by pushing the crucifixion back.  However, since the whole idea of crucifixion is intimidation (ie. think about the stories of lining the Apian Way with crosses after the Servile War with Spartacus) it makes sense to crucify someone in front of a large crowd (ie. so the start of Passover means a ton of people) and leave them in place so everyone can see the body on the cross as the come and go (ie. the whole point of crucifixion).  Death of the accused wasn't the entire point of the process.  So taking a body down after a few hours just to placate the Jews in the case of a person who was convicted of declaring themselves the king, or treason, seems a terrible way to send the whole message that crucifixion was meant to send.  Taking a body of the primary criminal to a tomb at this point becomes highly unlikely.        To save this whole story you have to assume that jesus was crucified, was left to rot on the cross and whatever was left was tossed into an unmarked ditch like usual.  Unless, like the satire I posted, the guards got distracted and his corpse was taken from cross but odds are that wouldn't have happened since guards would pay with their own lives in that sort of situation especially if we really do accept a case of treason which raises the stakes (so to speak).             mwc  
    • Krowb
      Recently reading up on an interesting topic of the Maori "way of knowing" and how several cultures appear to be sidelining "Western" thoughts and practices for  the local culture's alternative (read: faith based) knowledge systems.   In this case we see the Jewish people see touching of the dead as making one "unclean", but to the Maori people it makes them "sacred".  Same result though in the fact the person now lives in a kind of prohibition:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tohunga & https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tapu_(Polynesian_culture), but for the completely opposite reason.
    • walterpthefirst
      Correction!   Suffering is the product of Adam not understanding god’s warning.   And we are all paying for it.
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