Nde's

[KT45]

To show that we all go to the same place and go there the same way, that the body exits the body in the same way.

 

It's hard for a hardly-ever-speaking-and-therefore-word-unfriendly person like me to explain it, so I'll compare it to if everyone went through something different. If everyone went through a different experience, it would be similar to the hallucinations experienced in dreams and actual drug experiences - they may contain the occasional shared symbols but bear no close resemblence to each other. It would be easier then for me to accept that the NDEs would be hallucinations or the products of a failing system then.

That reminds me. A lot of people who go through alien abduction have the same expierence too!!! This clearly makes their argument stronger

[The Sage Nabooru]

That reminds me. A lot of people who go through alien abduction have the same expierence too!!! This clearly makes their argument stronger

 

Thank you for showing that smartasses prove nothing but their own asshood. There are more mature ways of making points, beyond the teen level.

 

I am open to the possibility that NDEs are just physical manifestations of a dying brain; however, I choose to believe that that is not so having taken in the evidence.

 

I do believe people can have hallucinations and believe that they're NDEs; for example, I wouldn't believe anybody who had one on the operating table while under the happy sleep. Not that I'm saying they're lying or that they absolutely did not have one, I'm saying that I couldn't completely trust it.

 

Research into the afterlife cannot stop at the NDE level. When I look at it I take the entirety of the experiences I know of and can reasonably verify into account. One important thing to consider is, why is it that when people experiencing an NDE re-enter the body, it is because they are told to "go back"? If a person were on the emergency room stretcher and their brains got zapped back to life, wouldn't their "hallucination" end rather abruptly, rather than having an entire process of being re-introduced to the body and re-entering it?

 

There is also the very nature of NDEs. Why is it that people consistently see their own dead relatives and friends and various spiritual/religious figures - NOT living relations, business acquaintances, etc.? Hallucinations and dreams hardly bother to make their experiences unique in such senses or are concerned with such detail.

 

I believe that whatever we experience we call forth. NDEs are similar enough to show universality of life after death, IMO, but individual enough in their details to show that what each person experiences is dependent on what they expect, the consciousness of that person, etc.

 

Also any medical person can tell you that brain damage is permanent. Once a portion of the brain "dies" - is deprived of oxygen and fails - there is effectively speaking no going back for that particular part of the brain. That is part of what makes strokes so terrible. If a portion of the brain is decimated by a stroke, the therapy is not reviving that part of the brain, it is training other parts of the brain to do the work of the failed part. If an NDE were caused by a failing brain, then it would result in at least a permanently damaged brain, especially considering how long NDEs can last and how long a body can lie effectively "dead" on the table until they are over. Also people who do experience brain damage - those who have strokes, for example - don't report the same kind of supernatural experiences or depth of experience that NDE survivors do.

[KT45]

Thank you for showing that smartasses prove nothing but their own asshood.

your welcome

On a serious note the similarities between alien abductions and NDE's are very similar. Both have similar expierences, both involve something beyond are comprehension, both happen in coma and or sleep like states where the brain isn't functioning normally. Why is are NDE's taken more seriously than Alien abductions?

 

There is also the very nature of NDEs. Why is it that people consistently see their own dead relatives and friends and various spiritual/religious figures - NOT living relations, business acquaintances, etc.?

I'm pretty sure that there were some who saw there living relatives. These probably dismissed as hallucinations since they don't fit into what people would consider an NDE even though they had the same physical symptoms and expierence.

 

If an NDE were caused by a failing brain, then it would result in at least a permanently damaged brain, especially considering how long NDEs can last and how long a body can lie effectively "dead" on the table until they are over.

But pilots doing G-Force test expierence it too and they don't recieve brain damage as far as I know. It might not be caused by a failing brain.

[euphgeek]

I'd like to hear an NDE that you find to be credible. Another reason why it seems fake is because in every expierence they always see the people you've read, heard about or lived with. Never anyone new. Christians see Jesus, Buddhist see buddha, Athiest see there mommies. Americas will see angels since this whole country is obsessed with christianity (atheist and christians alike) and hindus will see Ganesh. You will never hear of an american seeing and elephant like creature with a human body and many arms. Tt just seems like your mind gathering information it already knows about while going into a euphoria state in order to make your death seem less tramatic. It really seems explainable to me.

 

So anyway can u tell me one that you find interesting or plausible?

The most plausible ones I hear are where there is medical evidence, like an EEG machine that confirms that the patient was flatlining, and/or credible witnesses, like a doctor who can verify the things the person witnessed while they were near death. Also, many children's NDEs because they have very few if any preconceived notions about death or what heaven is supposed to look like. People whose lives change for the better are also more plausible.

 

Like I say, I'm willing to keep an open mind about this. And if science one day proves once and for all that there is no life after death, it will not bother me a bit. It's just that the skeptical arguments are not very convincing to me.

[Guest Mr. XC]

This topic has come up before. There were some scientific like discussions around it and it seemed like NDEs was the body's reaction to loosing touch with the physical senses, but I was not completely satisfied with the reply that the inner parts of the brain keep on ticking while the outer parts shut down. The brain is such a resource hungry organ that without blood constantly going through it, I think it would completely shut down in a matter of 30 seconds or so.

 

Plus, according to some studies mentioned in the other topic, people came back with greater appreciation for life, higher self-esteem, greater compassion, etc. I find it a little strange that harming an organ like the brain would produce positive results such as those. Of course, being able to see our own body from a birds eye perspective (especially with the eyes shut!) cannot be explained by any scientific exclamation that the brain is just somewhat inactive.

 

Warning: Crazy theory alert; read with skepticism. One of my theory's is that the physical world is a collective projection (example: dream) of a single mind that perceive itself as separate entities called souls. The mind is good at dreaming. The physical brain is more of an receiver of the soul, but since the physical world is derived from the collective mind, really everything receives the thoughts of the mind, including things we do not consider to be alive. Since the souls true nature is the mind, dreaming an alternate reality is natural. When the brain rests at night, that is because the soul rests from interacting with the body and does its own thing. During an NDE, you experience a dream that is far more powerful because the soul is far more disconnected from the physical body. You create your own dream, which is why you have to be careful what you believe in. A sinner deserving of hell is a very bad belief to hold. In the article from NBC10, the girl was able to draw pictures of her resuscitation while she was "dead" because she was watching the collective dream (what we experience as the physical world). I have yet to hear a good scientific like exclamation for how someone can see the world (let alone from outside their body) when the parts of their brain that receive their ability to hear, see (while their eyes are shut no less!), and feel is totally inactive. Also, since this is all done in the mind, you can expect it to be different for everyone including not having an NDE at all. So it is very doubtful that NDEs will be explainable by science anytime soon. This will mean that there will always be skeptics who try to dismiss NDEs despite that they have no evidence that concretely explains the whole thing. Skeptics have been wrong before, but they have also been right in the face of many silly ideas, so I advise that everyone do their own research and come up with their own theory than simply accepting someone else's (especially mine).

[The Sage Nabooru]

This will mean that there will always be skeptics who try to dismiss NDEs despite that they have no evidence that concretely explains the whole thing. Skeptics have been wrong before, but they have also been right in the face of many silly ideas, so I advise that everyone do their own research and come up with their own theory than simply accepting someone else's (especially mine).

 

There's my entire opinion on just about everything supernatural, wrapped up.

 

I would've typed it myself, but like I said, I no goodie with the wordies.

[KT45]

This will mean that there will always be skeptics who try to dismiss NDEs despite that they have no evidence that concretely explains the whole thing.

What hasn't been explained yet concerning NDEs? I don't think we will ever have answers for everything but I'd still would like to know what hasn't been answered.

[euphgeek]

This will mean that there will always be skeptics who try to dismiss NDEs despite that they have no evidence that concretely explains the whole thing.

What hasn't been explained yet concerning NDEs? I don't think we will ever have answers for everything but I'd still would like to know what hasn't been answered.

Just about everything, I'd say. About the only thing people on both sides of the argument can agree on is that something is happening.

[Guest Mr. XC]

This will mean that there will always be skeptics who try to dismiss NDEs despite that they have no evidence that concretely explains the whole thing.

What hasn't been explained yet concerning NDEs? I don't think we will ever have answers for everything but I'd still would like to know what hasn't been answered.

I agree about it being unlikely that we will ever have the answers. To get a concrete explication, you would have to explain how the mind works and verify its operation during an NDE. Since there has been an example of where someone was in a coma for several years and their brain completely rewired itself, putting the centers for various operations (motor control, language, visual processing, etc.) in very unique places, studying the mind is very difficult. Until we can simulate the entire mind in a computer program, and have a human like personality being emulated perfectly by a computer program, then I doubt our understanding of the brain is sufficient to concretely prove or disprove NDEs. Technology is growing quickly, so I would not be surprised if we have these resources in 10-20 years. Although finding the correct program will be exceedingly difficult unless we find the exact operation of brain cells and correctly simulate their interaction and growth within the computer program.

 

It is very difficult to come up with an exhaustive list because you would have to know the answer to know the appropriate questions to ask and answering one question could bring about many more questions.

 

A through study of brain activity would be a good start. According to "JGJ@ReligionisBullshit" in a similar topic of NDE's, EEGs are only the beginning since they only measure strong cortex activity. I guess it is possible that you can have enough of your brain active to produce an NDE without registering anything on an EEG? I am not an expert in this. Anyway, EMRI (or simply magnetic resonance imaging, MRI) or Electrical Property Enhanced Tomography (EPET) would help measure the deeper parts of the brain and would be very helpful for studying NDEs and brain activity. If there is no activity found, then the only scientific explication is that the entire NDE was produced during the dying process and reviving process of the brain. Considering that an NDE may have a lot of content, I hardly find this explication conclusive. However, some people have reported that dreams may produce experiences that last for much longer than the actual dream (example: taking a quick nap for 10 minutes, but the dream has about an hour of content). But still, I think it takes more resources for the brain to produce more complex and more detailed dreams than it does for simple, not so detailed dreams; Resources that may or may not be active during some part of the NDE.

 

Some of it simply cannot be explained by conventional science. Such as how a little girl who had an NDE was able to produce a "blow-by-blow accurate description of her own resuscitation, but from a bird's eye point of view." I do not know of any natural or scientific explication for this.

[KT45]

Just about everything, I'd say. About the only thing people on both sides of the argument can agree on is that something is happening.

It would probably be easier to say that scientist have a few explainations but boths sides can't agree.

 

Some of it simply cannot be explained by conventional science. Such as how a little girl who had an NDE was able to produce a "blow-by-blow accurate description of her own resuscitation, but from a bird's eye point of view." I do not know of any natural or scientific explication for this.

Dr. Morse is a respected pediatrician. He was a skeptic about the issue of life after death until he was confronted with a story he couldn't explain away.

 

"She was what you would call clinically dead," explained Morse. "She was under water for 19 minutes."

 

After the 7-year-old girl was resuscitated, she started drawing pictures.

 

"What she described to me was not a hallucination. It was a blow-by-blow accurate description of her own resuscitation, but from a bird's eye point of view," said Dr. Morse

How hard is it to describe how you got brought back to life after having been under water? It was more than likely CPR and any kid who has watched an episode of baywatch could have guessed it. Also if she described the people who were around her at the time then all she would have to do is look around. More than likely the ones close to her saved her.

 

As far as a birds eye view it's really not that hard to imagine. Look around in the room you are in right now. Now image seeing it from above. It's not that hard. (Well it might be for some, I took drafting classes so it might be easier for me to visualize). All of it still seems explainable to me.

[Guest Mr. XC]

Some of it simply cannot be explained by conventional science. Such as how a little girl who had an NDE was able to produce a "blow-by-blow accurate description of her own resuscitation, but from a bird's eye point of view." I do not know of any natural or scientific explication for this.

Dr. Morse is a respected pediatrician. He was a skeptic about the issue of life after death until he was confronted with a story he couldn't explain away.

 

"She was what you would call clinically dead," explained Morse. "She was under water for 19 minutes."

 

After the 7-year-old girl was resuscitated, she started drawing pictures.

 

"What she described to me was not a hallucination. It was a blow-by-blow accurate description of her own resuscitation, but from a bird's eye point of view," said Dr. Morse

How hard is it to describe how you got brought back to life after having been under water? It was more than likely CPR and any kid who has watched an episode of baywatch could have guessed it. Also if she described the people who were around her at the time then all she would have to do is look around. More than likely the ones close to her saved her.

 

As far as a birds eye view it's really not that hard to imagine. Look around in the room you are in right now. Now image seeing it from above. It's not that hard. (Well it might be for some, I took drafting classes so it might be easier for me to visualize). All of it still seems explainable to me.

Yes, because 6-year-old girls love to pay attention to Baywatch (sorry for the sarcasm, but it seems appropriate). Maybe it was just me, but those shows were not that appealing to me at that age. There is also the issue of what the parents let the kid watch. Plus, I would assume that Dr. Morse (note the Dr.) would know the difference between guessing what a resuscitation would look like vs. giving the actual account. Otherwise, he know he would be made a fool if the evidence were not strong enough. Take a look at the quote that I gave again. "blow-by-blow" means that she followed the exact process. "Accurate description" means that the doctor was able to verify important details. "Her own resuscitation" means that the process that she described was unique to her situation. You had the benefit of a drafting class to visualize viewpoints that are not your own. This is a 6-year-old. I saw a child drawing pictures of animals this morning. She was around 6. They were not that reflective of real life.

[euphgeek]

Just about everything, I'd say. About the only thing people on both sides of the argument can agree on is that something is happening.

It would probably be easier to say that scientist have a few explainations but boths sides can't agree.

Not even all scientists can agree about the explanations, though.

Some of it simply cannot be explained by conventional science. Such as how a little girl who had an NDE was able to produce a "blow-by-blow accurate description of her own resuscitation, but from a bird's eye point of view." I do not know of any natural or scientific explication for this.

Dr. Morse is a respected pediatrician. He was a skeptic about the issue of life after death until he was confronted with a story he couldn't explain away.

 

"She was what you would call clinically dead," explained Morse. "She was under water for 19 minutes."

 

After the 7-year-old girl was resuscitated, she started drawing pictures.

 

"What she described to me was not a hallucination. It was a blow-by-blow accurate description of her own resuscitation, but from a bird's eye point of view," said Dr. Morse

How hard is it to describe how you got brought back to life after having been under water? It was more than likely CPR and any kid who has watched an episode of baywatch could have guessed it. Also if she described the people who were around her at the time then all she would have to do is look around. More than likely the ones close to her saved her.

 

As far as a birds eye view it's really not that hard to imagine. Look around in the room you are in right now. Now image seeing it from above. It's not that hard. (Well it might be for some, I took drafting classes so it might be easier for me to visualize). All of it still seems explainable to me.

If I remember correctly, she described medical instruments being used on her that she could not have possibly seen before (if it's the same one I'm thinking of). She even knew which doctor had put a tube down her throat.

[KT45]

Yes, because 6-year-old girls love to pay attention to Baywatch (sorry for the sarcasm, but it seems appropriate).

Yeah baywatch was the first thing that popped in my mind. Well anyway if she was swimming then she probably had a swim class and saw a demonstration or one of those charts that most pools are required to have.

 

would know the difference between guessing what a resuscitation would look like vs. giving the actual account.

It's a step by step process. No guessing involved.

 

This is a 6-year-old. I saw a child drawing pictures of animals this morning. She was around 6.

My little sister is seven. I'll ask her to draw a birds eye view of her room. I'm not being rude I seriously want to know what will happen.

 

Not even all scientists can agree about the explanations, though.

I'm pretty sure they agree the symptoms can be reproduced and that it is caused by some sort of trauma to the brain.

 

If I remember correctly, she described medical instruments being used on her that she could not have possibly seen before (if it's the same one I'm thinking of). She even knew which doctor had put a tube down her throat.

The news article that XC gave no mention of medical instruments. Can you find that NDE moment for me. About the tube down her throat, I've never had anything down my throat so I wouldn't know but after they took it out I can imagine there would be a slight sensation of pain. If I woke up with a sore throat and doctors around me I would guess they stuck a tube down my throat.

 

 

Yes, because 6-year-old girls love to pay attention to Baywatch (sorry for the sarcasm, but it seems appropriate).

Yeah baywatch was the first thing that popped in my mind. Well anyway if she was swimming then she probably had a swim class and saw a demonstration or one of those charts that most pools are required to have.

-EDIT-

Oh and some kids do enjoy watching the discovery channel, the health channel etc.

 

would know the difference between guessing what a resuscitation would look like vs. giving the actual account.

It's a step by step process. No guessing involved.

 

This is a 6-year-old. I saw a child drawing pictures of animals this morning. She was around 6.

My little sister is seven. I'll ask her to draw a birds eye view of her room. I'm not being rude I seriously want to know what will happen.

 

Not even all scientists can agree about the explanations, though.

I'm pretty sure they agree the symptoms can be reproduced and that it is caused by some sort of trauma to the brain.

 

If I remember correctly, she described medical instruments being used on her that she could not have possibly seen before (if it's the same one I'm thinking of). She even knew which doctor had put a tube down her throat.

The news article that XC gave no mention of medical instruments. Can you find that NDE moment for me. About the tube down her throat, I've never had anything down my throat so I wouldn't know but after they took it out I can imagine there would be a slight sensation of pain. If I woke up with a sore throat and doctors around me I would guess they stuck a tube down my throat.

[OnceConvinced]

Sure there may be a lot of similarities in people's stories, but it's still very hard to get past the differences. For these experiences to be real Heaven and Hell have to be the same for everyone surely? But they're not. There are always differences, so they are either dreams or halucinations, based on their beliefs, things they have seen on TV, stories they have read and that sort of thing.

[euphgeek]

Not even all scientists can agree about the explanations, though.

I'm pretty sure they agree the symptoms can be reproduced and that it is caused by some sort of trauma to the brain.

Right, but they don't agree about the explanations, is my point.

If I remember correctly, she described medical instruments being used on her that she could not have possibly seen before (if it's the same one I'm thinking of). She even knew which doctor had put a tube down her throat.

The news article that XC gave no mention of medical instruments. Can you find that NDE moment for me. About the tube down her throat, I've never had anything down my throat so I wouldn't know but after they took it out I can imagine there would be a slight sensation of pain. If I woke up with a sore throat and doctors around me I would guess they stuck a tube down my throat.

Yes, but would you be able to point out the one doctor out of a team of doctors working to resuscitate you who stuck the tube down your throat? Would you at six years old be able to give an accurate description of the medical procedure? Note that we're not just talking about CPR here, but a doctor at a hospital with advanced resuscitating equipment. And remember, she gave such an accurate description that it caused her doctor, an avowed skeptic of NDEs to change his mind on the matter.

 

Sorry, but I can't find that NDE, since I don't know the child's name and I originally saw it on a television show like Unsolved Mysteries or one of those informational programs they show only once where they present both sides.

[Guest Mr. XC]

Sure there may be a lot of similarities in people's stories, but it's still very hard to get past the differences. For these experiences to be real Heaven and Hell have to be the same for everyone surely? But they're not. There are always differences, so they are either dreams or halucinations, based on their beliefs, things they have seen on TV, stories they have read and that sort of thing.

The point that I was making in my prior posts was that NDE's allow you to experience a dream of your own making. So an NDE does not give truth, but what your imagination thinks that you should see when you die. So what is seen in an NDE is not really proof of any particular religion. Although we do have some examples of where people who experience NDE's see their own body from a perspective other than their bodily eyes (such as bird's eye). This in itself is very interesting.

[KT45]

Yes, but would you be able to point out the one doctor out of a team of doctors working to resuscitate you who stuck the tube down your throat?

I'd guess the one that was closest to me

 

Would you at six years old be able to give an accurate description of the medical procedure? Note that we're not just talking about CPR here, but a doctor at a hospital with advanced resuscitating equipment. And remember, she gave such an accurate description that it caused her doctor, an avowed skeptic of NDEs to change his mind on the matter.

 

Sorry, but I can't find that NDE, since I don't know the child's name and I originally saw it on a television show like Unsolved Mysteries or one of those informational programs they show only once where they present both sides.

You have to understand that I can't go off of accounts I have not heard or read about, especially one off a show like unsolved mysteries (no offense). The article I was given by XC only said that the girl was underwater for 19 minutes. There was never any mention of medical equipment. You should be able to find the NDE account based off of the name of the doctor in the article. Otherwise I will just be agruing points that may or may not be true. I need a source.

[euphgeek]

Yes, but would you be able to point out the one doctor out of a team of doctors working to resuscitate you who stuck the tube down your throat?

I'd guess the one that was closest to me

Yes, but you'd be guessing, and have a high probability of being wrong. And if I remember correctly, the one who put the tube down her throat was not the main doctor, the one that would have been closest to her when she woke up. According to the article, she was not guessing, she knew. Besides, a six-year-old would not have the advanced reasoning skills that an adult would have, nor would she be able to convince a doctor with a series of guesses, the odds of her getting every single one of them right purely by chance being roughly the same as the odds of every single person on this planet and one fried egg being suddenly and instantaneously relocated to Pluto.

Would you at six years old be able to give an accurate description of the medical procedure? Note that we're not just talking about CPR here, but a doctor at a hospital with advanced resuscitating equipment. And remember, she gave such an accurate description that it caused her doctor, an avowed skeptic of NDEs to change his mind on the matter.

 

Sorry, but I can't find that NDE, since I don't know the child's name and I originally saw it on a television show like Unsolved Mysteries or one of those informational programs they show only once where they present both sides.

You have to understand that I can't go off of accounts I have not heard or read about, especially one off a show like unsolved mysteries (no offense). The article I was given by XC only said that the girl was underwater for 19 minutes. There was never any mention of medical equipment. You should be able to find the NDE account based off of the name of the doctor in the article. Otherwise I will just be agruing points that may or may not be true. I need a source.

Then you should be able to find it, too. Besides, there were clues in the article, as pointed out to you by Mr. XC and myself that bring up points you have not addressed.

[Matt]

This is really interesting, but honestly guys the Aetheist NDES with the whole hell thing shook me. Honestly, i dont really mind as long as their isnt a 'hell', place with eternal tourment for ANYBODY!. AMEN???...keep goin

[KT45]

Yes, but you'd be guessing, and have a high probability of being wrong.

High probability? Come on you can't be serious. The number of doctors in a room is around five or less (you know to avoid clutter). 20% chance of getting it right.

 

And if I remember correctly, the one who put the tube down her throat was not the main doctor, the one that would have been closest to her when she woke up.

Source

 

According to the article, she was not guessing, she knew.

A lot of people believe they know something with all of there hearts. Doesn't believe it true. Besides as long as it's not verified that it was nothing more than a CPR procedure then why should believe other wise.

 

Besides, a six-year-old would not have the advanced reasoning skills that an adult would have, nor would she be able to convince a doctor with a series of guesses, the odds of her getting every single one of them right purely by chance being roughly the same as the odds of every single person on this planet and one fried egg being suddenly and instantaneously relocated to Pluto.

If it's a well know procedure like CPR then no guessing involve. Your analogy is a stretch.

 

Would you at six years old be able to give an accurate description of the medical procedure?

I had to take a test on CPR in elementary school and swimming classes as a child so yes.

 

Note that we're not just talking about CPR here, but a doctor at a hospital with advanced resuscitating equipment.

Source.

 

And remember, she gave such an accurate description that it caused her doctor, an avowed skeptic of NDEs to change his mind on the matter

I guess I need the "blow by blow" account to convience me

 

Then you should be able to find it, too.

Why should I look for information to help benifit your case? That's like telling a murder suspect to find evidence to prove that he is guilty. i see no reason to go on a goose chase to find an article on a supernatural case that you claim exist but aren't willing to look for.

 

Besides, there were clues in the article, as pointed out to you by Mr. XC and myself that bring up points you have not addressed.

What hasn't been address? I gave a reason for everything provided except the birds eye view. I'll get back to you on that when I ask my 7 year old sister to draw a birds eye view of something like my room.

[Piprus]

This is really interesting, but honestly guys the Aetheist NDES with the whole hell thing shook me. Honestly, i dont really mind as long as their isnt a 'hell', place with eternal tourment for ANYBODY!. AMEN???...keep goin

 

It's a fascinating topic.

It's true that most people who come close to death do not report any NDE while unconscious, and there really isn't a whole lot of consistency to the experiences. (I have to admit I'm not real current on the topic, my readings on it were done some years back) Some report seeing and/or hearing dead relatives, some report angels, some report seeing jesus, some recall a bright light, some describe floating above the scene, some recall emotions either of terror or pleasure, and so on.

The limited evidence so far points to some kind of dream state, with a likely physiological basis. It could originate with a rapid drop in brain oxygen or glucose, both of which the brain is extremely sensitive to, and may reflect the person's emotional state at the time of the event. But we don't have enough information to make any reliable judgement at present.

 

As to the atheist NDE, well, many atheists, especially those who are ex-fundie christian atheists, can certainly be expected to remember how we were terrorized in our childhoods by the depictions of hell. Some memories may be buried, but they're still there. And, if a person realizes their life is in imminent peril, panic could trigger the mind to produce a horrific dream state as the brain chemistry gets upended. Just a possible natural explanation, and I for one will seek to exhaust every possible natural explanation before considering a leap to the unlikely realm of the supernatural.

 

One thing is certain, however. Anybody who completely died, never came back to tell us anything.

[KT45]

This is really interesting, but honestly guys the Aetheist NDES with the whole hell thing shook me. Honestly, i dont really mind as long as their isnt a 'hell', place with eternal tourment for ANYBODY!. AMEN???...keep goin

I haven't seen on NDE where stayed in hell the entire NDE. Most of the time, if they go to hell, they call on jesus or look up and whoosh there in heaven. Hell is always temporary and everyone ends up in heaven. Some atheist don't even see hell in there NDEs. Here are some

http://www.near-death.com/dougherty.html

 

Here is another atheist who went to hell

http://www.near-death.com/experiences/reincarnation06.html

What can you tell us about hell?

 

Not much, but I hear it's a cool place.

 

Heat is molecules in motion, while cold is their lack of motion. Likewise, love is a fast vibration of the soul, while hate is a slower vibration. Complete love would be God, while complete hate would be death, leaving the soul extinct.

 

The temperature in heaven was just right, neither hot nor cold. But that stranger who said he'd been in hell three weeks described it as a dark, dank, chilly, frightening place. A place where everyone retains their physical desires without a way to satisfy them. For example, the glutton can't eat because he has no physical body. The alcoholic can't drink for the same reason, neither can the smoker smoke, nor the drug addict get a fix. The miser can't protect his money, and the sex-maniac, who doesn't believe in love, finds it impossible to satisfy his lust. Hell is real hell for anyone who lives only to satisfy his selfish desires.

Not so scary now huh. Don't worry about this stuff and live life.

[euphgeek]

High probability? Come on you can't be serious. The number of doctors in a room is around five or less (you know to avoid clutter). 20% chance of getting it right.

And an 80% chance of getting it wrong. That's a pretty high probability.

Source

I said, "if I remember correctly". That means I'm going off of memory because I don't have the source, which was most likely the TV show I saw.

 

If it's a well know procedure like CPR then no guessing involve. Your analogy is a stretch.

But if it's not a well-known procedure like CPR and it was in a hospital with advanced resuscitating equipment, then my analogy is dead-on.

Why should I look for information to help benifit your case? That's like telling a murder suspect to find evidence to prove that he is guilty. i see no reason to go on a goose chase to find an article on a supernatural case that you claim exist but aren't willing to look for.

So you equate looking up information to being accused of murder? And you say my analogies suck?

What hasn't been address? I gave a reason for everything provided except the birds eye view. I'll get back to you on that when I ask my 7 year old sister to draw a birds eye view of something like my room.

When you replied to this post by Mr. XC, you snipped out all of the following

I would assume that Dr. Morse (note the Dr.) would know the difference between guessing what a resuscitation would look like vs. giving the actual account. Otherwise, he know he would be made a fool if the evidence were not strong enough. Take a look at the quote that I gave again. "blow-by-blow" means that she followed the exact process. "Accurate description" means that the doctor was able to verify important details. "Her own resuscitation" means that the process that she described was unique to her situation.

 

Basically, which of the following scenarios is more credible?

 

Scenario #1:

Little girl: I saw you perform CPR on me while I was dead. You did this: (proceeds to describe CPR process).

Respected physician: Why you must have had a near-death experience! I hereby renounce all my atheistic beliefs! And by the way, I am Napoleon!

 

Scenario #2:

Little girl: I saw you bring me back to life.

Respected physician: (patronizingly) Oh really?

Little girl: Oh, yes. (Goes on to describe complicated medical procedure and actual conversations, including which people said what).

Respected physician: (stunned) How did you know that?

Little girl: I saw you working on my body from above.

Respected physician: This challenges my worldview. I should investigate this more.

[Guest Mr. XC]

Besides, a six-year-old would not have the advanced reasoning skills that an adult would have, nor would she be able to convince a doctor with a series of guesses, the odds of her getting every single one of them right purely by chance being roughly the same as the odds of every single person on this planet and one fried egg being suddenly and instantaneously relocated to Pluto.

If it's a well know procedure like CPR then no guessing involve. Your analogy is a stretch.

The given analogy is a stretch, but the account given by the child as summarized in the NBC10 article so highly improbable that it would be foolish to dismiss it so easily. A much more thorough and likely scenario would have to be given in order it properly dismiss it. Otherwise, you are throwing out opportunities for good research.

 

And remember, she gave such an accurate description that it caused her doctor, an avowed skeptic of NDEs to change his mind on the matter

I guess I need the "blow by blow" account to convience me

 

Then you should be able to find it, too.

Why should I look for information to help benifit your case? That's like telling a murder suspect to find evidence to prove that he is guilty. i see no reason to go on a goose chase to find an article on a supernatural case that you claim exist but aren't willing to look for.

 

Besides, there were clues in the article, as pointed out to you by Mr. XC and myself that bring up points you have not addressed.

What hasn't been address? I gave a reason for everything provided except the birds eye view. I'll get back to you on that when I ask my 7 year old sister to draw a birds eye view of something like my room.

If you were truly interested in the subject, you would also help research it (and not just one side of it). The experiment with your 7-year-old sister is nice, but good researchers look at both sides. I have. While I have not reached a solid conclusion, I have concluded that NDE's remain mysterious.

 

The experiment with the 7-year-old will not prove anything conclusive (as talents vary by child anyway), it will just help you form a slightly more detailed argument.

 

What the child knew during the procedure still needs a good explication. Saying she saw it before on TV is insufficient. Another experiment to do would be to give the child a medical procedure of similar complexity to watch on TV. Three weeks later, test the child to see how detailed and accurate of an account they can document. It is well known that children of that age have very short attention spans. Of course, this still does not explain how the child knew the exact details that were unique to her scenario.

[KT45]

I said, "if I remember correctly". That means I'm going off of memory because I don't have the source, which was most likely the TV show I saw.

Right your source isn't credible

 

Why should I look for information to help benifit your case? That's like telling a murder suspect to find evidence to prove that he is guilty. i see no reason to go on a goose chase to find an article on a supernatural case that you claim exist but aren't willing to look for.

So you equate looking up information to being accused of murder? And you say my analogies suck?

My analogy is not equating looking up info to being accused of murder. My analogy is about a person looking for information to prosecute himself which is similar to what your asking me to do. You want me to find information so I can make myself look bad. Who even does that? Again I find no reason look for an account that you thought you heard on a tv show.

 

What hasn't been address? I gave a reason for everything provided except the birds eye view. I'll get back to you on that when I ask my 7 year old sister to draw a birds eye view of something like my room.

When you replied to this post by Mr. XC, you snipped out all of the following

I would assume that Dr. Morse (note the Dr.) would know the difference between guessing what a resuscitation would look like vs. giving the actual account. Otherwise, he know he would be made a fool if the evidence were not strong enough. Take a look at the quote that I gave again. "blow-by-blow" means that she followed the exact process. "Accurate description" means that the doctor was able to verify important details. "Her own resuscitation" means that the process that she described was unique to her situation.

I did talk about the patient guessing. That post didn't matter because she didn't necessarily have to guess if she knew CPR. This talk about medical equipment isn't verifiable because you have no source to back it up. And about the "her own resuscitation" the article doesn't say that it's unique so I have no reason to believe that it was. So what else hasn't been addressed?

 

Basically, which of the following scenarios is more credible?

 

Scenario #1:

Little girl: I saw you perform CPR on me while I was dead. You did this: (proceeds to describe CPR process).

Respected physician: Why you must have had a near-death experience! I hereby renounce all my atheistic beliefs! And by the way, I am Napoleon!

good job setting up a straw man. The doctor included with the account that the little girl drew a picture of a unborn brother with a big heart. The brother was born with a birth defect and he put the two together. It was a combination of things that led him to this position. For me seeing a little girl draw a picture of baby with a big heart wouldn't prove anything since most little girls draw big hearts on family memeber pictures. Also he had two different accounts (not just the one of a drowning girl) of near death expierences in the article that led him to believe NDEs might be possible. Both to me seem suspect.

 

Scenario #2:

Little girl: I saw you bring me back to life.

Respected physician: (patronizingly) Oh really?

Little girl: Oh, yes. (Goes on to describe complicated medical procedure and actual conversations, including which people said what).

Respected physician: (stunned) How did you know that?

Little girl: I saw you working on my body from above.

Respected physician: This challenges my worldview. I should investigate this more.

where in the article did it say she repeated the exact conversations. Please give me a real account so I can see if this is realistic or not.