Mike D Posted February 2, 2008 Share Posted February 2, 2008 Here in the US, citizens are protected from discrimination by employers, housing, etc. on the basis of religion. This includes atheists and agnostics, since even though they fall into the non-religious, it's still a subset of what someone chooses in regards to religion. So, for identification purposes, atheism and agnosticism may be classified as "religions". However, these are in no way religions! When it comes to Christians and other religious people, many like to claim that atheists and agnostics "have faith" that there's no god, or they are communists or Marxists with their own "religious" doctrines, etc. This is completely ridiculous.... just because someone is an atheist or agnostic, does not make them any of these other things. So why this confusion? Is this a misunderstanding of what atheism and agnosticism is (like as a religious classification in regards to non-discrimination), or just plain willful ignorance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator florduh Posted February 2, 2008 Super Moderator Share Posted February 2, 2008 So why this confusion? Is this a misunderstanding of what atheism and agnosticism is (like as a religious classification in regards to non-discrimination), or just plain willful ignorance? I think it ignorance, both willful and deliberate, mixed with a good dose of pulpit propaganda. If we don't have THEIR religion, we MUST have some other religion. They can't fully embrace the idea that some simply do not believe there is any evidence for a god. After all, it is all so obvious to them! Legal classification under religious freedom is fine with me because it protects all of us, whether of any particular faith or none at all. I expect this may change, however. Let's hope not. Polls have already shown that most Americans would never elect an atheist for president, so the prejudice is already there and growing. Some employers have already fired employees who smoked OFF THE JOB on their own time. It's not a large jump to discriminate against the most hated minority, atheists, in the near future. - Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenny Posted February 2, 2008 Share Posted February 2, 2008 I think this subject runs along the lines of "if you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice". (Damn, but Rush is a good band!) And like Chris stated, "If we don't have THEIR religion, we MUST have some other religion." People absolutely cannot resist labeling others... even if it's a sub-category of a sub-category. I wouldn't consider atheism a religion at all. I'd call it a mind set, an ideology, a personal decision... but certainly not a religion. I say this because, ultimately, there are no "rules" other than one not acknowledge the existence of any god. This decision has little to do with what defines that person, their worth, or their actions. It's simply one's opinion - it neither makes an individual inferior or superior. Too bad the rest of the world can't understand that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JayA Posted February 2, 2008 Share Posted February 2, 2008 People who say atheism is a religion are really deluded. Religion is believing in something, period.... atheists believes in no god so there is no logical way anyone can say its a religion. by saying we have faith in no faith is a copout if you ask me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R. S. Martin Posted February 2, 2008 Share Posted February 2, 2008 I've been trying to forget it but you should have heard the telephone conversation my sister had with me. The things she accused me of believing were just plain amazing. Here's the information she had: 1. I don't believe in the Bible God of Israel. 2. I was investigating Paganism Conclusion: Ruby is an atheist. She proceeded to tell me what I believed. Can you say arrogant? It is hardly to be expected that people of that calibre can make authoritative statements of any kind about atheism. Unfortunately, they can and do vote. They can and do riot and boycott and other major social movements that disrupt the peace. These ignorant masses are a power to be reckoned with. HOW to reckon ethically with such brute power is a thorny question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MathGeek Posted February 3, 2008 Share Posted February 3, 2008 Sadly, but I don't believe in Yahweh anymore, nor do I believe in Allah, nor do I believe in Shiva, Vishnu, Zoroaster, Manichaeus, Odin, Thor, Zeus, Hera, Athena, et al. I guess with them I am an atheist. But, when it comes to believe that the universe itself is god, or that a seperate force created the universe and instilled evolution as the reigning force, or if humans are their own gods, then the jury is still out. I guess that would make me an agnostic. Using my convoluted thinking, Ruby, your sister is right in the fact that you are an atheist but that in regard to Yahweh only. She may not be inside your head, but she knows how to make an ass of herself (READ: assume). This is why I fear the rabid believer. To quote Sam Harris, a belief is like a lever once it is pulled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godlessgrrl Posted February 3, 2008 Share Posted February 3, 2008 Atheism is not a religion, it is a position on the existence of a god or gods. However, it stands in contrast to theism; in some sense, atheism describes a lack of theism. Theism isn't a default human state, but it is nonetheless the more common position: most people in the world are theists. Atheists are "without theism", so to speak - defined by our lack of what most other people have (a belief in a god or gods). A lack of theism does seem to be something that a lot of devout religionbots can't get their heads around. But if you look at the world through the lens of a religion, perhaps this isn't surprising. It's easy to assume that the rest of the world operates the same way you do. And I do think that it's possible for atheists to be dogmatic in our manner, even though we don't really have any dogma or doctrine backing up our position. It's possible for us to act like, say, evangelicals do, and become as insistent about our position as a theist might be. Anti-theist atheists are more prone to this, I think, but it does happen; and if you look like a zealot, people are going to think you're a zealot. Some wee hour thoughts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neon Genesis Posted February 3, 2008 Share Posted February 3, 2008 One problem with classifying atheism as a religion is how would you define what religion your baby belongs to if you're a Christian parent? Babies aren't born theist, they have to learn to be theists. If anything, babies are born atheists since God's existence is something they have to learn through going to church or being raised to believe so by their parents. If Christians think that atheism is a religion, then are they admitting that their babies belong to a different religion than they do even when they take them to church? Somehow I doubt they would be all that happy when you point out that their babies are atheists too, which to me shows that atheism is an opinion of the mind rather than a religious organization that you join up with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric_PK Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 It's a protection mechanism. Theists generally have the belief that their faith is totally correct (if it wasn't, they'd have a different faith), and that those of other religious beliefs "have the right idea but are a bit misguided". They generally don't voice these beliefs because it's impolite to do so, and that way they stay out of arguments. That's why you see many christians assert that Christians, Jews, and Muslims all worship the same god, when it's pretty clear they don't. Treating atheists as "just another religion", with faith similar to theirs, makes us easy to classify into their worldview. We're more deluded than (for example) the methodists, but less deluded than, say, the mormons (insert whatever sects you want), but we're basically like them, and they're used to dealing with people who believe weird things on faith (ie all theists outside of their sect). People who don't have faith-based beliefs don't fit into that scheme, and that means they're threatening. So, it's easy as a protection mechanism to claim that they have faith because then they fit into their existing worldview. My point being that there is some psychology involved. That's the same reason that you find theists telling atheists quite forcibly what atheists believe - they really *need* for those reasons to be true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centauri Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 Here in the US, citizens are protected from discrimination by employers, housing, etc. on the basis of religion. This includes atheists and agnostics, since even though they fall into the non-religious, it's still a subset of what someone chooses in regards to religion. So, for identification purposes, atheism and agnosticism may be classified as "religions". However, these are in no way religions! When it comes to Christians and other religious people, many like to claim that atheists and agnostics "have faith" that there's no god, or they are communists or Marxists with their own "religious" doctrines, etc. This is completely ridiculous.... just because someone is an atheist or agnostic, does not make them any of these other things. So why this confusion? Is this a misunderstanding of what atheism and agnosticism is (like as a religious classification in regards to non-discrimination), or just plain willful ignorance? If atheists can be classified as having a religion, then not collecting stamps can be classified as a hobby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 I want to start a tax free organization called Church of Nonbelievers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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