A Christian's inerrancy challenge

[iprayican]

Go ahead, take your best shot. One scripture at a time I will attempt to prove that the Bible is inerrant which seems to be one of the biggest roadblocks to having faith that it could be the Word of God. Please respect that I am only one person and can only accept this challenge if you are patient with me in answering one of your challenges at a time. After I have posted a response, you can all take turns with your rebutal. One against how many? I think this will be a fair test of my confidence in the Bible. It will be like David standing up against Goliath, or Joshua and the Walls of Jericho or Samson and the jawbone of an ass. Let the challenge begin.

[Celsus]

Which nativity narrative is correct, Matthew or Luke's? If you claim both are, please explain how the holy family could be in Egypt and Galilee at the same time? Reference here, http://geocities.com/creationist_eac/nativity.htm.

 

Bruce

[LloydDobler]

Which story about Judas' death is correct?

 

1Early in the morning, all the chief priests and the elders of the people came to the decision to put Jesus to death. 2They bound him, led him away and handed him over to Pilate, the governor.

    3When Judas, who had betrayed him, saw that Jesus was condemned, he was seized with remorse and returned the thirty silver coins to the chief priests and the elders. 4"I have sinned," he said, "for I have betrayed innocent blood."

      "What is that to us?" they replied. "That's your responsibility."

 

    5So Judas threw the money into the temple and left. Then he went away and hanged himself.

 

    6The chief priests picked up the coins and said, "It is against the law to put this into the treasury, since it is blood money." 7So they decided to use the money to buy the potter's field as a burial place for foreigners. 8That is why it has been called the Field of Blood to this day. 9Then what was spoken by Jeremiah the prophet was fulfilled: "They took the thirty silver coins, the price set on him by the people of Israel, 10and they used them to buy the potter's field, as the Lord commanded me."

 

18(With the reward he got for his wickedness, Judas bought a field; there he fell headlong, his body burst open and all his intestines spilled out. 19Everyone in Jerusalem heard about this, so they called that field in their language Akeldama, that is, Field of Blood.)

[LloydDobler]

I think this will be a fair test of my confidence in the Bible. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

By the way, as long as you are willing to lie to yourself and believe any possible explanation for the nonsense in the bible, this will go nowhere. We understand this, but are entertaining your silly notion anyway. If you turn out to be an honest person, your eyes will be opened to the reality that the bible is heavily flawed.

[Guest JP1283]

It will be like David standing up against Goliath, or Joshua and the Walls of Jericho or Samson and the jawbone of an ass. Let the challenge begin.

 

Talk about having a martyr complex.

[Mythra]

What is this? A joke?

 

Oh, I can't resist. If for no other reason than the entertainment value in watching the calisthenics.

 

Romans 3:10 As it is written, none is righteous, no not one. No one understands, no one seeks for God. All have turned aside; together they have become worthless; no one does good, not even one.

 

Romans 3:23 For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.

 

vs.

 

 

Luke 1:5 In the days of Herod, King of Judea, there was a priest named Zechariah, of the division of Abijah. And he had a wife from the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elizabeth. And they were both righteous before God, walking blamelessly in all the commandments and statutes of the Lord.

 

Job 1 In the land of Uz there lived a man whose name was Job. This man was blameless and upright; he feared God and shunned evil.

[Checkmate]

May I just say that this is the most ludicrous and arrogant proposition ever uttered by a Christian.

 

I'm sorry. I know that this is the Colosseum, but really! Everyone KNOWS that we'll simply dog pile iprayican. Bombarding him/her with scriptures, and then s/he will cry "foul!". Citing that we "unfairly" overwhelmed him/her. Yadda, yadda, yadda. This has been a recording.

 

Sigh!

 

But that's fine. You want to issue a challenge? I'll play along with the gag. I really don't care if you answer my riddle or not. (I know you can't do it. No one can.) Here it is:

 

It's called The Easter Challenge. (Also known as Mission:Impossible.)

 

Without omitting ONE THING, compile a coherent single narrative of Christ's trial, crucifixion, death, burial and resurrection. You MUST use as your source all four gospels, the book of Acts and 1 Corinthians 15. Omit no detail.

 

I'll even be fair. You've got a YEAR to complete your assignment. (Should you choose to accept it.)

 

Warning: IT CAN'T BE DONE! No Christian to date has been able to do it. Are you game?

[LloydDobler]

Mythra, don't forget Noah!

 

This is the account of Noah.

      Noah was a righteous man, blameless among the people of his time, and he walked with God.

 

Oh the irony of ironies, one of the first things Noah does after the flood....

 

He gets hammered and passes out naked. What a righteous dude.

 

20 Noah, a man of the soil, proceeded to plant a vineyard. 21 When he drank some of its wine, he became drunk and lay uncovered inside his tent.

 

And, of course, his son immediately commits a sin (seeing his father naked?), which his grandson is then cursed for...

 

24 When Noah awoke from his wine and found out what his youngest son had done to him, 25 he said,

       "Cursed be Canaan!

       The lowest of slaves

       will he be to his brothers."

 

    26 He also said,

       "Blessed be the LORD, the God of Shem!

       May Canaan be the slave of Shem.

 

    27 May God extend the territory of Japheth;

       may Japheth live in the tents of Shem,

       and may Canaan be his slave."

 

So what was the point of all that world destruction if sin was just going to come right back into play again? Shouldn't they have been righteous for at least ONE generation before plunging back into evil again?

[Asimov]

Go ahead, take your best shot.  One scripture at a time I will attempt to prove that the Bible is inerrant which seems to be one of the biggest roadblocks to having faith that it could be the Word of God.  Please respect that I am only one person and can only accept this challenge if you are patient with me in answering one of your challenges at a time.  After I have posted a response, you can all take turns with your rebutal.  One against how many?  I think this will be a fair test of my confidence in the Bible.  It will be like David standing up against Goliath, or Joshua and the Walls of Jericho or Samson and the jawbone of an ass.  Let the challenge begin.

 

No it's not, it's one of the biggest claims of being a roadblock. It doesn't matter if the bible is inerrant in terms of contradiction that doesn't mean that what is stated is true or actually happened.

[scotter]

It's called The Easter Challenge.  (Also known as Mission:Impossible.)

 

Without omitting ONE THING, compile a coherent single narrative of Christ's trial, crucifixion, death, burial and resurrection.  You MUST use as your source all four gospels, the book of Acts and 1 Corinthians 15.  Omit no detail.

 

On the Easter Challenge, again I highly recommend the book I mentioned in the Jesus as Messiah thread (I have no interests associated with the book!)

 

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0195154622/

 

If you readers get a chance to read the origins of the gospels about source M L and Q, you will understand the Easter Challenge puzzle is not necessarily a puzzle in the first place for non-believers; but - for Christians who claim Biblical literal inerrancy, the burden to synchronize the Easter stories is still on your side.

 

IprayIcan, the book is sincerely recommended to you also.

 

The thing is, if you a Christian who has read the book and would like to use the book to explain why Easter Challenge is not necessary, then you are risking a compromise on your faith after reading the facts listed out.

 

Tapping into this book will change you (as a Christian): either you get frustrated, or you become a softer, more liberal Christian. So if you like to preserve your faith as it is now, don't tap into it.

[Heimdall]

Matthew 2:1 Now when Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judaea in the days of Herod the king, behold, there came wise men from the east to Jerusalem,

 

Luke2:1 And it came to pass in those days, that there went out a decree from Caesar Augustus that all the world should be taxed.

2:2 (And this taxing was first made when Cyrenius was governor of Syria.)

2:3 And all went to be taxed, every one into his own city.

2:4 And Joseph also went up from Galilee, out of the city of Nazareth, into Judaea, unto the city of David, which is called Bethlehem; (because he was of the house and lineage of David:)

2:5 To be taxed with Mary his espoused wife, being great with child.

2:6 And so it was, that, while they were there, the days were accomplished that she should be delivered.

2:7 And she brought forth her firstborn son, and wrapped him in swaddling clothes, and laid him in a manger; because there was no room for them in the inn.

 

Herod the Great was born in 73 BCE and died in 4 BCE. Cyrenius was governor of Syria from 6 CE to 9 CE. Was your savior born twice? This is my favorite contradiction! You folks have no real idea of when your man-god was born! But don’t feel bad, early Christ Cultists had the same problem. In the second century CE, Irenaeus, Bishop of Lyons, said that Jesus was still alive in the reign of Trajan (ruled 98-117 CE) and in the fourth century CE, Epiphanius, Bishop of Salamis, said that Jesus was born before Herod the Great (73 – 4 BCE). This gives you a range from before 73 BCE to after 117 CE, 140 years! Now tell us who was right, Luke or Matthew? Let the waffling and tap dancing begin! - Heimdall

[quicksand]

One scripture at a time I will attempt to prove that the Bible is inerrant which seems to be one of the biggest roadblocks to having faith that it could be the Word of God.

Why the Bible? Since God has seen fit to offer revelation, that is direct intervention to so-called prophets from time to time -with Paul being the prime example here, why would your God even risk an imperfect being, like yourself, to possibly explain the Bible wrong? Are you inerrant? Are you somehow in step with God more than anyone else?

[iprayican]

Some of us don't know how to stay on topic, do we? I will start with the first question and work my way through the rest. Whole chapter comparisons will take some time to review, but I'm game. At least you didn't ask be to compare the OT to the NT on the first question. I'll be back with the first response. I didn't want all of you to begin making comments that I had already left or anything. I am presently working on a rather large fund raiser for children and a few other things that occupy my time but I will make time for this thread. You might have to wait a few days inbetween responses so don't be alarmed that I have abandoned you. I'm glad to see you have such confidence in my ability. To the fellow who questioned why I should take such a challenge in all of my human-ness, have no doubt, God is with me on this. I know this by experience, I've done this before with others such as your everyday Christian to the expert Professor on topics of creation science or the inerrancy of the Bible. In the end it was not I that excused myself from the debate with a respectful acknowledgement to my opponent. You see, I do not have any confidence in My ability, God's got my back.

[quicksand]

Some of us don't know how to stay on topic, do we?

It's a valid question.

 

Basically, you wouldn't have to spend your time, and in sometimes days of commentary that you've alluded to, if your God would just reveal himself and get it out of the way. But no, of course, here you are taking the rib-shots for your God, doing the heavy lifting.

 

 

God is with me on this.

Which plays into my argument exactly. Why should God choose you and not us? What makes your reading of the bible and shoe-horning into the a doctrine of inerrancy (which concedes that yes, the bible is not perfect and inerracy-apologetics is predicated on these balant problems) correct? If you choose to argue faith, you've begged the question.

 

Well, go ahead and try anyway. This will be a good for a laugh.

[crazy-tiger]

Why not try this one, Geneology in the Colosseum, or this one, Geneology in The Lions Den?

 

 

 

I really want to know what you'd have to say...

[MQTA]

maybe it's really Jeanniology

[Mythra]

I do not have any confidence in My ability, God's got my back.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

We await your divinely-inspired answers with breathless anticipation.

[Heimdall]

And remember, the answers have to be verifiable with science or history!

[Antlerman]

To the fellow who questioned why I should take such a challenge in all of my human-ness, have no doubt, God is with me on this.  I know this by experience, I've done this before with others such as your everyday Christian to the expert Professor on topics of creation science or the inerrancy of the Bible.  In the end it was not I that excused myself from the debate with a respectful acknowledgement to my opponent.  You see, I do not have any confidence in My ability, God's got my back.

You are either:

 

1. Yanking our chains

2. Extremely naive or delusional

3. Seeking to have your faith destroyed (religious suicide)

 

I look forward to the predictable outcome. Please don't become a run away like all the rest! After all, this time it's not just some man that will be debating us, but GOD himself according to what you're saying here. (I look forward to getting some real answers from him why his book is so fucked up).

[HadouKen24]

I can see how this thread is going to turn out already:

 

Non-Christian: Over-mentioned error in the Bible.

 

Christian: Cliched attempt at harmonization.

 

Non-Christian: Accusation that the Christian is twisting the words of the Bible.

 

Christian: Claim that you have to see with the eyes of faith.

 

 

Repeat.

[Kryten]

... To the fellow who questioned why I should take such a challenge in all of my human-ness, have no doubt, God is with me on this.  I know this by experience, I've done this before with others such as your everyday Christian to the expert Professor on topics of creation science or the inerrancy of the Bible.  In the end it was not I that excused myself from the debate with a respectful acknowledgement to my opponent.  You see, I do not have any confidence in My ability, God's got my back.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm sure you are undefeated in your own mind. If you're depending on the god of the bible to protect and help you, this will be a short battle. You will end up saying things like "it was a translation error" or "the original manuscript had it right", or "it's a mystery and we'll find out when we can ask God in person". Oh, and yes you must have faith to see the truth. Sure, if you TRY hard enough to believe (i.e. have faith) then you will magically have faith and believe!!

 

Start with the ones already mentioned here-- like the Easter Challenge and the different geneologies of Jesus (hint: they are BOTH for Jesus, not Mary!). Then tell me if Jesus carried his cross alone, like it says in John.

Go ahead and check the apologetic sites and we'll wait here.

[Checkmate]

....................

I didn't want all of you to begin making comments that I had already left or anything.  I am presently working on a rather large fund raiser for children and a few other things that occupy my time but I will make time for this thread.  You might have to wait a few days inbetween responses so don't be alarmed that I have abandoned you.

Then why start this "challenge"? Stop making with the excuses ALREADY. And stop puffing yourself up by telling us all about your altruistic exploits "helping the children". Blah, blah, blah. (Why can't you "Christians" ever pray or do your good deeds without sounding a trumpet like the Pharisees? Just gotta be SEEN being "holy", don't you?)

 

If you aren't up to the challenge, then why make it? If you are SO strapped for time, then why offer up your services? We didn't ask you for this "boon". Quit with the excuses and make with the answers.

I'm glad to see you have such confidence in my ability.

This is a joke right? Who the hell said ANYTHING about having confidence in you? (Or in your "god" for that matter?) We fully expect you to fall flat on your over-confident face. But please, do continue.

............

You see, I do not have any confidence in My ability, God's got my back.

Another knee slapper! You really should consider stand-up comedy. I'm in stitches.

 

But this prompts the question: IF "god has got your back", then your tight schedule should be immaterial. Just crank out the answers right quick. After all, the holy spook is dictating isn't he? You're just the glorified typist, right? (Yeah, right.)

 

Okay. I'm done now. Back to your regularly scheduled BS.

 

 

(Maybe this thread SHOULD be moved into the Lion's Den. I have the distinct feeling I'm going to have a difficult time controlling my temper in this one.)

[MQTA]

Just crank out the answers right quick.  After all, the holy spook is dictating isn't he?  You're just the glorified typist, right?  (Yeah, right.)

 

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

There's gotta be something to it. When I type up a long post it's because after I type the first paragraph, my fingers just take over. I don't know where it comes from but I Just let my fingers type and type and then I go edit the typos.

 

Must be from the Holy Spook. My fingers have a mind of their own. Sometimes they like getting me in trouble by typing first, asking questions later. LOL

 

Why do people bite off more than they can chew and then excuse it away?

[Vigile]

I can see how this thread is going to turn out already:

 

Non-Christian: Over-mentioned error in the Bible.

 

Christian: Cliched attempt at harmonization.

 

Non-Christian: Accusation that the Christian is twisting the words of the Bible.

 

Christian: Claim that you have to see with the eyes of faith.

Repeat.

 

Yup. Pretty much it.

[crazy-tiger]

(Maybe this thread SHOULD be moved into the Lion's Den.  I have the distinct feeling I'm going to have a difficult time controlling my temper in this one.)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That is the main reason why I'm not posting much in here... I just know I'm going to rip someone a new one and get into trouble for it.