Why Do Christians Have Health Insurance?

[EdwardAbbey]

If prayer is so powerful why do Christians have to rely on health insurance?

 

If Christians believe with all their hearts and minds that just by praying and/or laying hands on people who are sick, that God will miraculously heal them, then why bother depending on doctors and hospitals at all?

 

Why not just pray to the Almighty to not only heal everyone who is inflicted with cancer but abolish this dreadful disease altogether?

 

And while your engaged in such a prayer, why not request and ask God to kindly abolish all diseases and be done with it?

 

In my not so humble opinion, prayer is nothing more than a superstitious excercise in futility and it fails every time. The main reason is that there is no God that exists and has never existed at all.

 

Prayers go no further than the human brain. I'm also amazed at all the typical fundamentalist cop outs that I hear from Christians in their desperate attempts at continually trying to prop up their prayer myth.

 

Here are just a few of those cop outs that are nothing more than hypocracy that is so common in fundyism:

 

Prayer is not a magic mantra that grants all our wishes. Prayer is to align ourselves with God's will, not to persuade Him to bend to ours.

 

All prayers are answered. The answer just might not be one that you like.

 

The following was in response to the passage from Jesus own words:

Ask, and it will be given you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. For every one who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened. Or what man of you, if his son asks him for bread, will give him a stone? Or if he asks for a fish, will give him a serpent? If you then, who are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father who is in heaven give good things to those who ask him!

you're applying a teaching made in one context and applying it to a different context. It's not Jesus' words that are wrong, it's your application of them.

 

It's statements like these by fundamentalist Christians that makes it so obvious they are not being honest and are just lying to themselves and others. They know full well that prayer is pure bullshit and superstition at best.

[Scott]

Prayer is not bullshit. God hears prayer. I do believe it is possible to heal the sick, cast out demons, and do whatever Jesus said we can do. The problem is people do not truly take the words of Jesus into themselves. They may believe for salvation, but they can't imagine being able to heal the sick. Now, it wouldn't actually be us who do it, but if we use the name of Jesus and go by the power of the Holy Spirit, we can do anything, if it be the will of the Father.

[Antlerman]

Prayer is not bullshit. God hears prayer. I do believe it is possible to heal the sick, cast out demons, and do whatever Jesus said we can do. The problem is people do not truly take the words of Jesus into themselves. They may believe for salvation, but they can't imagine being able to heal the sick. Now, it wouldn't actually be us who do it, but if we use the name of Jesus and go by the power of the Holy Spirit, we can do anything, if it be the will of the Father.

There's the little built-in out. "if it be the will of the Father". Modern healing have been shown to be fradulent, other "healings" are natural but viewed as miraculous by those who want to believe. Again, as has been asked Oh so many times, show me an amputee who has regrown an arm!

 

BTW, if the verse you cite is to be taken literally, then it in fact would be the will of the Father, so you really can't say that when Pastor Bob fails to regrow an arm with only the name of Jesus spoken while waving his hands over the victim's face, it is because it wasn't the Father's will. If in fact it wasn't the Father's will, then where is God's compassion for those who believe in him --- all Christian amputees everywhere since the begining of this faith system?

[Scott]

That kind of power was granted to anyone who truly believes in the Son of God. Christians want the will of God to come to pass. Sometimes, something we want to happen, are not the will of God. God doesn't have to do everything we want to prove to us He loves us. He proved it in His Son.

[Antlerman]

That kind of power was granted to anyone who truly believes in the Son of God. Christians want the will of God to come to pass. Sometimes, something we want to happen, are not the will of God. God doesn't have to do everything we want to prove to us He loves us. He proved it in His Son.

I'm saying there are no miracles, no healings. You cite a verse as to promising healings, which was said for what purpose? Does that purpose no longer exist? Where's the beef? Where's the mircle-growth arm on an amputee? If God's love is proved in his Son, then why promise you can do miracles? Again, where's the arm?

[Checkmate]

"If it be thy will" is the Biggest Cop-out Ever!

 

IF it must be in God's will FIRST, then what is the point of praying? If ONLY His will is being done, then why pray? Why ask? What you want doesn't matter.

 

IF you Christians are supposed to be filled with His Spirit to begin with, then don't you ALREADY know His will? If so, then why pray? Shouldn't you already know what the answer is going to be?

 

This prayer crap is just that...CRAP.

 

"Jesus" says that you may ask for ANYTHING in His name (another possible escape hatch for failure), and He WILL do it. There's nothing ambiguous about this. You Christians create all of your apologetic excuses in a vain attempt to rationalize failure for prayer. None of this is real. You'd have better success if you just tossed a coin, or wait for a flying monkey to zoom into your house with the answer to your "prayer" in a manilla folder.

 

You need to grow up and stop behaving like children disappointed in Santa Claus for failing to bring your toy. You humans are an embarrassment, and I'm getting REALLY tired of listening to you all drool incoherently.

 

This IS the 21st century, for fuck's sake!

[roman]

1. That kind of power was granted to anyone who truly believes in the Son of God. 2. Christians want the will of God to come to pass. 3. Sometimes, something we want to happen, are not the will of God. 4. God doesn't have to do everything we want to prove to us He loves us. He proved it in His Son.

 

1. I feel sorry for you that you can't see that you just declared yourself to be a superstitious believer in magic.

 

2. The "will of God" is not something that can "come to pass" or not.

 

3. "Is," Scott. "Something," the singular subject, requires the singular verb "is." Take a course in English. It will help you in your Xian Walk. Then learn Greek, and Hebrew.

 

4. Have you ever heard of the Johannine Comma? Look it up, and study it. Prayerfully, of course.

[nick5]

Now, it wouldn't actually be us who do it, but if we use the name of Jesus and go by the power of the Holy Spirit, we can do anything, if it be the will of the Father.

Funny how when prayer "works", it's only for stuff that could have happened anyways, without prayer.

 

Oh, and

Prayer is not bullshit.

 

Yeah, it is.

[Checkmate]

Scott, something tells me that you have not yet checked out my favorite web site "Why Won't God Heal Amputees?" Not to worry. I'm here to offer you yet another look at it. Here's a link to a video clip titled Proving That Prayer Is Superstition. Do yourself a huge favor and watch this. It's not long and it is easy to follow.

 

I'll give you the synopsis of the video: Prayer is as effective as a Lucky Horse Shoe.

[KT45]

I do believe it is possible to heal the sick, cast out demons, and do whatever Jesus said we can do.

The problem is people do not truly take the words of Jesus into themselves.

Sometimes, something we want to happen, are not the will of God.

 

Christians are amazing you know. With wordings like this they can believe all they want even if nothing will happen.

 

Lets say for instance a little girl is dying and the family prayed for her but she died anyway. Christians faith in miracles aren't threatened because "it wasn't the will of God".

 

Lets say you here about a story on the news about a woman who died of cancer but prayed everyday. Christians faith in miracles aren't threatened because "she didn't truely take the words of Jesus into herself". They don't know that for sure but it's not like the woman will come back to life to defend her faith.

 

Or lets say a bunch of christians, Millions and Millions of christians pray really hard for an amputees arm to grow back. but nothing happens. There Faith isn't hurt because "we shouldn't have tested the lawd our god".

 

with this kind of thought process they can be trapped forever believing in miracles and having a truck load of excuses for why they didn't happen.

[Piprus]

Prayer is not bullshit. God hears prayer. I do believe it is possible to heal the sick, cast out demons, and do whatever Jesus said we can do. The problem is people do not truly take the words of Jesus into themselves. They may believe for salvation, but they can't imagine being able to heal the sick. Now, it wouldn't actually be us who do it, but if we use the name of Jesus and go by the power of the Holy Spirit, we can do anything, if it be the will of the Father.

Yeah...it's bullshit all right. And you can believe it's possible for a pig to fly, and probably do. Why not? You sure believe in a lot more nonsense than that...

(I can't wait 'til we get a thread started on demons, that oughta really be a humdinger)

 

Pardon me, this is a colosseum thread...perhaps my prior post was more like a Lions Den entry.

 

My think on the OP...I honestly think most christians really don't believe in healing by prayer. But they do believe in holding health insurance coverage, as I'm sure the records will show. The reason of course, is that health insurance, physicians, nurses, and hospitals are pretty dependable. Prayer is as dependable as a dead plow horse.

[Antlerman]

My think on the OP...I honestly think most christians really don't believe in healing by prayer. But they do believe in holding health insurance coverage, as I'm sure the records will show. The reason of course, is that health insurance, physicians, nurses, and hospitals are pretty dependable. Prayer is as dependable as a dead plow horse.

I'm surprised no one has offered the view that God is answering prayer by providing qualified physicians, nurses, and hospitals. Of course that response is a little more reasonable than healing through the Almighty God interrupting nature in response to little Mary's sweet prayer for grandma, but that also begs questions like why didn't he help those poor bastards that had doctors sticking leaches on their eyeballs for cures for whatever they couldn't understand. Good for us today, but too bad for them yesterday; or good for them tomorrow who find the cure for AIDS, but too bad for us today. Oh well, ain't faith a funny thing?

[quicksand]

Prayer is not bullshit. God hears prayer. I do believe it is possible to heal the sick, cast out demons, and do whatever Jesus said we can do. The problem is people do not truly take the words of Jesus into themselves. They may believe for salvation, but they can't imagine being able to heal the sick. Now, it wouldn't actually be us who do it, but if we use the name of Jesus and go by the power of the Holy Spirit, we can do anything, if it be the will of the Father.

Scott, I'll give you a test. Pray that I become a Christian 3 days after you read this. And I mean a real Christian, which can only be Protestant, republican, and conservative of course.

 

Or whatever flavor you want. I don't care. Just pray for it, and if you have the faith of a mustard seed, the mountian (me) that you move to god will be easy work. Since god hears all prayers, that being said, all prayers are the will of the father. No exceptions.

 

If that doesn't work, your not a real Christian so you can bugger off.

[EdwardAbbey]

Prayer is not bullshit. God hears prayer. I do believe it is possible to heal the sick, cast out demons, and do whatever Jesus said we can do. The problem is people do not truly take the words of Jesus into themselves. They may believe for salvation, but they can't imagine being able to heal the sick. Now, it wouldn't actually be us who do it, but if we use the name of Jesus and go by the power of the Holy Spirit, we can do anything, if it be the will of the Father.

 

Not only is prayer bullshit but so is the so called imaginary power of the Holy Spirit you guys keep asserting. If it's so powerful then why don't you visit the hospitals and start closing them down by healing the sick there eh? you know damn well why you don't go there is because you know it doesn't work yourself. There is no holy spirit, there is no God, there is no Jesus and prayer fails every time because it is pure BULLSHIT!

 

 

 

 

Scott, something tells me that you have not yet checked out my favorite web site "Why Won't God Heal Amputees?" Not to worry. I'm here to offer you yet another look at it. Here's a link to a video clip titled Proving That Prayer Is Superstition. Do yourself a huge favor and watch this. It's not long and it is easy to follow.

 

I'll give you the synopsis of the video: Prayer is as effective as a Lucky Horse Shoe.

 

LOL, You took the words right out of my mouth Mr Grinch! that's the site that gave me the idea for this topic!

 

Prayer is also as effective as a lucky rabbits foot too but not for the poor lil rabbit eh?

[EdwardAbbey]

 

Oh well, ain't faith a funny thing?

 

It's not only a funny thing but it is a stupid, ridiculous and mindless thing.

[Scott]

Scott, something tells me that you have not yet checked out my favorite web site "Why Won't God Heal Amputees?" Not to worry. I'm here to offer you yet another look at it. Here's a link to a video clip titled Proving That Prayer Is Superstition. Do yourself a huge favor and watch this. It's not long and it is easy to follow.

 

I'll give you the synopsis of the video: Prayer is as effective as a Lucky Horse Shoe.

 

I listened to that video. I've seen those videos before. It proves absolutely nothing.

[KT45]

Scott, something tells me that you have not yet checked out my favorite web site "Why Won't God Heal Amputees?" I'll give you the synopsis of the video: Prayer is as effective as a Lucky Horse Shoe.

I listened to that video. I've seen those videos before. It proves absolutely nothing.

you dismiss a lot of stuff without reasoning behind it. Why do you believe it proves nothing?

[Scott]

I've heard some of his videos before. He knows nothing about the Bible. Do you really think God will be commanded by the will of men? Is God a magician, that He performs little tricks at our request, such us, making dice come up all six's with a prayer? That devalue's prayer and is insulting to God.

[KT45]

I've heard some of his videos before. He knows nothing about the Bible. Do you really think God will be commanded by the will of men? Is God a magician, that He performs little tricks at our request, such us, making dice come up all six's with a prayer? That devalue's prayer and is insulting to God.

he made fire come down from heaven for elijah to prove he is real and Baal is not. Wouldn't this be the same as preforming tricks at our request? How is this different from getting christians to pray for an amputee to get healed to prove he is real?

[Scott]

No matter what He does, some will not believe Him. In fact, most will not. Those who would believe Him will come to Christ by the testimony of the witnesses to Jesus. When the rich man went Hades, he asked if he could go back to the earth and warn his family. Abraham said if they will not be presuaded by the prophets, they will not be persuaded by someone coming back from the death. The same applies here. In the last days, witnesses will blow fire from their mouth and do all sorts of miracles. What will people want to do with them? They'll want to kill them, and follow the AntiChrist who is also performing signs.

[KT45]

No matter what He does, some will not believe Him. In fact, most will not. Those who would believe Him will come to Christ by the testimony of the witnesses to Jesus. When the rich man went Hades, he asked if he could go back to the earth and warn his family. Abraham said if they will not be presuaded by the prophets, they will not be persuaded by someone coming back from the death. The same applies here.b]

What does it matter if only a few believe? If christian did do this then a few would get saved and a amputee would get healed. Why not just heal the sick to just heal the sick? The person getting healed doesn't even have to believe in Jesus. Jesus healed children that were already dead. It probable that they didn't believe in him or even know about Jesus at all. i also believe he healed other unbelievers as well. But he still healed them whether they had strong faith or not. Jesus healed people before so why don't his followers heal an amputee. So again if the gain is to heal and not to "test" god then what's the problem with healing an amputee and saving a few souls?

[mwc]

No matter what He does, some will not believe Him. In fact, most will not. Those who would believe Him will come to Christ by the testimony of the witnesses to Jesus. When the rich man went Hades, he asked if he could go back to the earth and warn his family. Abraham said if they will not be presuaded by the prophets, they will not be persuaded by someone coming back from the death. The same applies here. In the last days, witnesses will blow fire from their mouth and do all sorts of miracles. What will people want to do with them? They'll want to kill them, and follow the AntiChrist who is also performing signs.

First, the story of the rich man is just a parable but it's about the only one you seem to know. You have a preoccupation with the underworld (and end times and all sorts of just plain nonsense).

 

Second, good old Abraham never existed. So no worries there. But you're right. Lazarus, jesus, all them saints that up and walked around when jesus supposedly died. None of those parlor tricks worked. The odd thing is that Abraham sure knew quite a bit for a guy who died before the prophets (as everyone is used to them) came onto the scene. One might say he is almost anachronistic in his views...but I won't.

 

You know, I think I saw one of those "witnesses" at a concert once. No, wait...it was just Gene Simmons...but it was really cool when he blew fire from his mouth. Don't quote me on this but I heard they've been gathering an army for quite some time now.

 

mwc

[mwc]

I've heard some of his videos before. He knows nothing about the Bible. Do you really think God will be commanded by the will of men? Is God a magician, that He performs little tricks at our request, such us, making dice come up all six's with a prayer? That devalue's prayer and is insulting to God.

 

You're absolutely right. There's no precedence in the entire bible, a passage, that anyone could point to in order to support the idea that prayer can be used to get god to heal people on command or to cause the rain to suddenly stop falling. You win Scott.

 

James 5

 

12 But above all things, my brethren, swear not, neither by heaven, neither by the earth, neither by any other oath: but let your yea be yea; and your nay, nay; lest ye fall into condemnation. 13 Is any among you afflicted? let him pray. Is any merry? let him sing psalms. 14 Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord: 15 And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him. 16 Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much. 17 Elias was a man subject to like passions as we are, and he prayed earnestly that it might not rain: and it rained not on the earth by the space of three years and six months. 18 And he prayed again, and the heaven gave rain, and the earth brought forth her fruit. 19 Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him; 20 Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.

 

I guess you don't win after all. It's not the will of "god" but rather the "effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man" which "availeth much." Is there not a single righteous man on this entire planet that can pray for an amputee Scott? Is there no "prayer of faith" that can be said over the sick that is effective for AIDS, cancer and regrowing limbs? How about small-pox if that resurfaces? I'm not even going to go into the whole idea of altering weather patterns (Elijah stopped the rain for three years over the entire earth...how about a "global warming" correction?).

 

Take note that I included the full context for you to consider Scott. I'm not cheating the game. I have no need to do so. There are no conditions placed on any of what James writes here. We know of no other correspondence between him and his audience nor do we know of anyone else communicating with them. Just because you have the luxery of your man-made bible does not mean that these people did. The point being based on all the information we have this is the only instruction they have on how prayer works. This is the only instruction on how healing works. They can't simply whip out the bible and turn to Romans or Ephesians and clarify the position like you'll be so tempted to do. We can't even say they had the "Gospels" (meaning the big four) available (probably not). At best they might have had the Torah (the Scripture) and maybe the Tanach. So if you're going to play the context game, go right ahead, but remember what the context really is.

 

mwc

[Antlerman]

Do you really think God will be commanded by the will of men? Is God a magician, that He performs little tricks at our request, such us, making dice come up all six's with a prayer?

Turning water into wine at a wedding feast. Does that qualify as a magic trick at our request?

 

Just for giggles sometime, when you read the NT substitute the words "magic trick" wherever you see the word "miracle". "And this beginning of magic tricks did Jesus perform...."

 

You know, I think I saw one of those "witnesses" at a concert once. No, wait...it was just Gene Simmons...but it was really cool when he blew fire from his mouth. Don't quote me on this but I heard they've been gathering an army for quite some time now.

 

mwc

Absolutely! You do know that KISS, stands for Knights in Satan's Service. don't you? If you play "Rock and Roll all Night" backwards, you'll hear the actual voice of Gene's dark Lord and Master, Satan himself. Proof we are in the end times.

[Checkmate]

(Mods, I KNOW that this is in the Colosseum, but some things just HAVE to be said! My apologies...)

 

Just so. Scott, you are an intellectually dishonest nitwit. Go join Amy Marie and pretend to suck on Jesus' balls.

 

You SAY that you are here to LEARN, but you stubbornly and ridiculously deny all the proof, evidence and rational arguments we present with a cavalier dismissal of your hand, simply because we successfully debunk your faith. You've presented NO counter-arguments. You've presented no evidence to support your claims that "these people in the video" are wrong.

 

You just plug your ears (or if you're into yoga, you shove your head up your ass) and pretend that you can't see what we're saying.

 

Fine. Be that way. You've only succeeded in proving that YOU are a liar. You said you were here to have open and honest discourse. You said you were here to learn from us.

 

You're full of shit. You just want to know what arguments we have so you can better learn how to avoid them. Fuck you, Scott. You're a typical fundie brat and an idiot. I was right not to waste any time on you.