Hitler Was A Christian...?

[Lightbearer]

http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/1121/p09s01-coop.html

 

One finds the same inanities in Mr. Dawkins's work. Don't be fooled by this rhetorical legerdemain. Dawkins and Harris cannot explain why, if Nazism was directly descended from medieval Christianity, medieval Christianity did not produce a Hitler.

 

 

Hitler was protrayed as a Christian knight on a Crusade, everything the Nazis did was mystical and ceremoniously equated to the Knights of Christiandom

 

 

Sympols of crosses decked the Third Reichs memborbilia

 

 

German translation:"God is with us"

 

This whole website seems to have alot of evidence to show Hitlers personal Christiain beliefs.

 

http://www.nobeliefs.com/Hitler1.htm

 

"Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord." -- Adolf Hitler

 

 

Hitler was a direct result of Christainity.

[Fonkey]

Hitler was a direct result of Christainity.

 

Just because Hitler was a Christian does NOT mean that Christianity is to blame for his atrocities.

 

You may as well argue that because he spoke German, therefore Hitler was a direct result of speaking German. Or because he was heterosexual, Hitler was a direct result of Heterosexuality. Or because he was a vegetarian, Hitler was a direct result of Vegetarianism.

 

ZOMG!! Straight german vegetarians are so evil!!

 

Also, keep in mind that dictators will often exploit the public's ideologies to further their own cause. Presenting himself and his cause as essentially Christian would have been very helpful in winning the support of the people. His personal views may well have been different. Josef Goebbels (Hitler's Propaganda minister) wrote in his diary in 1930:

 

The Führer is deeply religious, but deeply anti-Christian. He regards Christianity as a symptom of decay.

 

There are other examples of Hitler expressing anti-christian sentiments in private.

 

As for the images posted, I see no reason to equate the knight image with the Crusaders (who would have had crosses emblazoned on their chest). The Iron Cross on the pendants was the symbol of the German military since the 1800's. Recall that Germany has a long history as a Christian nation, and that a vast proportion of its cultural symbols (both visual and linguistic) has its origins in Christianity.

 

I'm not convinced, but it doesn't really matter. There's always the OT atrocities, as well as more than a millennium of Christian states persecuting minority religions (beginning with Theodosius in the late 4th century, and going up until who knows when).

[crazy-tiger]

Also, keep in mind that dictators will often exploit the public's ideologies to further their own cause. Presenting himself and his cause as essentially Christian would have been very helpful in winning the support of the people.

Whether Hitler was Christian or not, the Christian Germans went along with him, even throwing their full support behind his cause.

Hitler wouldn't have been able to present his cause as essentially Christian without Christianity ALREADY containing most (if not all) of his cause)

 

So, instead of just one bad apple spoiling the rest, you've now got a nation of bad apples who were already spoiled before Hitler came along! (a point that is missed so often when people try to argue that Hitler was just pretending to be a Christian)

 

 

 

Now... I'm not saying that Christianity was the cause, but attempting to disown someone for their beliefs just because they did stuff you're not happy with is an attempt to paint your beliefs as whiter than white...

[Everglaze]

Nah, Hitler wasn't really a true Christian . He may have found the idea appealing, but his "views" were different. He saw Jesus as the role model that fought against Jews or something along those lines.

[crazy-tiger]

Nah, Hitler wasn't really a true Christian . He may have found the idea appealing, but his "views" were different. He saw Jesus as the role model that fought against Jews or something along those lines.

Of course... just like the Catholics, the Crusaders, the Inquisition, people who burnt witches, ones who bomb abortion clinics and kill doctors, George W Bush, Jerry Falwell, Fred Phelps, Kent Hovind...

 

 

None of them are Christians anymore... now that they've managed to tarnish Christianity's good name.

[Lightbearer]

I didn't really make an arguement, just a statment and some pictures/quotes. It was 4 in the morning(12 hours ago) and I wanted to put that stuff down so I can come back and elaborate further.

 

I began to look for Hitlers religious ideas last night after reading this

 

http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/...k/2006/1117.asp

 

Where they, as usual, equate Hitler to atheism and evolution. They didn't even quote Hitler, just Darwin and said "Hitler did this!" and I remeber Hitler wanted to be a priest when he was a kid so I looked it up and found this site.

 

One thing is the quote where the guy said "Medieval Christainity did not produce a Hitler" but in a way, it did. That's why I posted the picture of Hitler dressed as a Medieval knight. The parrells are omnious and the Nazis did have an oppession with the holy knightly thing, they even crusaded for the Holy Grail. Those whole ideas and concepts came from Medieval Christainity, which was also primitive and barbaric in it's own right sometimes. So yeah, it produced a Hilter, the Hitler, but the effects of the ideas were felt hundreds of years later.

 

It's the ideas that I'm making an arguement against.

 

In Mein Kemf, that site shows, and in his speechs and rthetoric and in his private life Hitler was very religious and expressed alot of faith in the mystical and supernatural as much as any other religionist. That sure as hell does not equate Hitler to every Christian person but it goes to show that his ideas were influenced alot by Christianity, more if not as much as the evolution-based ideas Christian Creationist always blame him for. AiG quotes Hitler all the time but they seem to leave out these quotes.

 

It makes you wonder who is the victim here, evolution or Christainity. You can't atheism because Hitler didn't appear to ever profess being an atheist. Plus when I found the article it was pointed out to me with this post on another forum where the guy refutes the claim that atheism is responisble for mass murders.

 

http://z7.invisionfree.com/capitalistparad...p?showtopic=870

 

Like other religious conservatives, Mr. D’souza gleefully demonstrates his proclivity to abandon his otherwise sensible nature when it comes to the topic of his sacred make-believe.

 

In order to whitewash the crimes of his religion, he finds it necessary to use the same brush to paint mass murderers like Stalin and many advocates of reason and individual rights, such as myself, simply because neither of us believe in a god.

 

He may as well be equating Hitler and Eisenhower, because both of them wore military uniforms.

 

The fact is that there is no essential similarity between reason-loving atheists and men like Mao. Atheism is not an ideology; it signifies only the lack of a particular idea: that of a god or gods. It doesn’t indicate an acceptance of reason, reality, or rights. It doesn’t indicate, even, a rejection of faith, just so long as that faith isn’t in some sort of god. Many a Shirley Maclaine-type does not believe in a god, but no thinking person would lump her in with a man of science.

 

Properly understood, it isn’t athe-ism, but a-theism. In other words, atheism isn’t an “ism,” but rather only the absence of a particular “ism.”

 

Of course, religions have their differences, but all of them embrace the epistemology of faith and thus advocate, to one degree or another, the abandonment of reason. As such, it is entirely appropriate to paint the religions of the world with that same brush.

 

What is that brush? In other words, what has resulted, in history, from the abandonment of reason? Even a cursory glance at the records of the ages will answer that question: every war of aggression, every dictatorship, every genocide, and every squelching of scientific thought.

 

This last is especially important because while Christianity may not have the flashy industrialized murder-factories of socialism, it more than makes up for it in the thousands of years of dark ages it has imposed upon the world. Remember, it is just as important to consider that which is unseen, as well as that which is seen. (As a fleeting look at the toll of the dark ages, consider how many died over those thousand years simply due to a lack of medicine and sanitation)

 

But even beyond this, is a most ironic reversal of Mr. D’Souza’s point: while there is no essential similarity between a dictator like Mao and an advocate of reason like Ayn Rand, there is most certainly an essential similarity between a dictator and a man of faith like Mr. D’Souza. So the crimes of Hitler, Stalin, and Mao, which he attributes to atheism, are actually crimes of unreason, which is a belief that falls in his domain.

 

Put that in your pipe and smoke it, Mr. D’Souza.

 

-Inspector

 

 

It seems to me like the blame can be laid on Christainity for this one in the same way they love to lay the blame on evolution and atheism. Plus, evolution is a scientific theory about biology, not a philoposhical or political belief system. Saying believing in evolution makes you like the Nazis or communists is like saying believing in plate tetonics makes you responsible for the deaths of people from earthquakes.

 

Because you accept a theory as valid doesn't mean you condone or justifiy the way it's used to meet the means of evil people.

 

In conclusion, about Hitler, what I am saying is his ideas were influenced just as much from Christianity as evolution... so the whole arguement they (the Creationists) try to make about atheism and evolution causing mass murders is false.

 

Most of you seem to have your mind set up about Hitler and Christianity, but browse through the site anyways, it's interesting.

[Fweethawt]

The Christian Science Monitor?!?!? What's up with that?

 

This was written there, also...

The crimes of atheism have generally been perpetrated through a hubristic ideology that sees man, not God, as the creator of values. Using the latest techniques of science and technology, man seeks to displace God and create a secular utopia here on earth. Of course if some people - the Jews, the landowners, the unfit, or the handicapped - have to be eliminated in order to achieve this utopia, this is a price the atheist tyrants and their apologists have shown themselves quite willing to pay. Thus they confirm the truth of Fyodor Dostoyevsky's dictum, "If God is not, everything is permitted."

 

Whatever the motives for atheist bloodthirstiness, the indisputable fact is that all the religions of the world put together have in 2,000 years not managed to kill as many people as have been killed in the name of atheism in the past few decades.

 

It's time to abandon the mindlessly repeated mantra that religious belief has been the greatest source of human conflict and violence. Atheism, not religion, is the real force behind the mass murders of history.

 

And why do they keep rippin' on Richard Dawkins and Sam Harris? Shit! You'd think they're scared or somethin'.

[Warrior_of_god]

"Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord." -- Adolf Hitler

That was in Mein Kamph, I remember reading it.

 

but it goes to show that his ideas were influenced alot by Christianity

Not only his but the way the Nazis did thongs as well, specifically the SS. However Hitler wanted to rewrite the bible too, to add more commandments such as "Obey your leader." and to remove all references to the Jews, Jesus was not Jewish in his eyes. Hitler was influenced by Christianity yes, and he saw its power, but he did not believe in strict christianity, he believed in HIS version of it. He saw it as a belief system and a tool.

 

Hitler also sought the Spear of Destiney, the speak that sopposedly cut Jesus side.

[Jun]

Hitler was influenced by Christianity yes, and he saw its power, but he did not believe in strict christianity, he believed in HIS version of it. He saw it as a belief system and a tool.

 

Like the Roman Catholic Church, and the myriad other splinter denominations.

[Warrior_of_god]

Yes. I believe thats also why he worked with the Church in Germany. Personally I hold the Vatical and Christianity responsible for formong Odessa and helping Nazis flee Europe...

[Thurisaz]

Whether Hitler was Christian or not, the Christian Germans went along with him, even throwing their full support behind his cause.

Hitler wouldn't have been able to present his cause as essentially Christian without Christianity ALREADY containing most (if not all) of his cause)

 

Exactly. What the bastard did or did not believe in can be an interesting subject, but it doesn't really matter. Even if it was an atheist, so what? Millions of christians gladly executed each and every inhuman order it gave.

[Warrior_of_god]

What the bastard did or did not believe in can be an interesting subject, but it doesn't really matter.

True, however people see this as something that matters because no one wants to be associated with him and hist actions, theres a slight stigma to that. Thats also why members of the Hitler family chose not to continue the bloodline.

[Lightbearer]

Yeah, Warrior_of_god is right. The reason I even found this site was because, like I said, I got sick of reading that Hitler was an atheist, so all atheists are Hitler. It's a logical fallacy anyways (forgot which one exactly).

 

But indepth look at Hitlers books, letters, writings, speechs etc etc does show that he was influenced by Christainity as well and professed some kind of faith in a "Creator God". Hitler was a man of unreason and faith(antithesis of reason) so that ball falls more in the religionists' court.

 

Christainity is not Nazism but it still doesn't change the fact that they are both irrational.

[Fonkey]

Thanks for clarifying and elaborating, Lightbearer, I can see that we are probably more in agreement than not. To claim that Hitler or his Regime were the result of atheism is plain dishonest. It's also untrue that the middle ages did not produce a Hitler: the name "Third Reich" is a direct reference to the Holy Roman Empire. Hitler was religious, quite possibly a christian, certainly he seems to have been spiritual and believed in God. I wonder, though, what of his connections to Nietzche? (uber-mensch and all that...)

 

I got sick of reading that Hitler was an atheist, so all atheists are Hitler. It's a logical fallacy anyways (forgot which one exactly).

 

Affirming the Consequent, I believe?

 

Or reductio ad Hitlerum :-P