Totallyatpeace Posted June 17, 2005 Share Posted June 17, 2005 If hell were not part of the Christian Faith, would you have still walked away from it? What else would have to go for you to be able to accept it? Tap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fweethawt Posted June 17, 2005 Share Posted June 17, 2005 If hell were not part of the Christian Faith, would you have still walked away from it? Yes. What else would have to go for you to be able to accept it?Tap The rest of the lies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandora Posted June 17, 2005 Share Posted June 17, 2005 Wow. Very good question!!! But the answer is still yes, although the doctrine of hell is one reason I left, the claims that Jesus is the saviour still hold no ground. However, a Christianity that recognizes the manifestation of God in other religious might have.... but I guess this is kind of related to hell. Then again, the historical problems would keep me away. I don't want to be bound by a "religion". I would be a devout UU if that were the case. (you know, they also revere Jesus as well). Ba'hai would be another option. Religions need to evolve in spirituality. Christianity doesn't do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MalaInSe Posted June 17, 2005 Share Posted June 17, 2005 If hell were not part of the Christian Faith, would you have still walked away from it? What else would have to go for you to be able to accept it? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I would have. I still wouldn't believe it. If hell were the problem, I would be a Buddhist. I've dabbled, but I find I don't believe that either, although it's a lot easier to believe than Christianity. I don't think that there's anything about it that would make me want to return to it. There's just not a whole lot that I find enticing. Ren Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qadeshet Posted June 17, 2005 Share Posted June 17, 2005 “If hell were not part of the Christian Faith, would you have still walked away from it?” Absolutely. There are many liberal denominations that have abandoned Hell. These churches are losing converts to the Fundamentalists. Without Hell the Christian dogma falls apart, for there is nothing to save us from, and no need for the sacrifice on the cross. “What else would have to go for you to be able to accept it?” Since the entire Bible is full of contradictions, the Bible has to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JP1283 Posted June 17, 2005 Share Posted June 17, 2005 Even without hell, Biblegod is so damn wrathful. Certainly not worthy of worship IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fweethawt Posted June 17, 2005 Share Posted June 17, 2005 I started another thread in relation to this one here. If you'd like to read it, CLICK HERE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigile Posted June 17, 2005 Share Posted June 17, 2005 If hell were not part of the Christian Faith, would you have still walked away from it? What else would have to go for you to be able to accept it? Tap Of course. Truth is the standard. Nothing less. I didn't walk away because I didn't like the doctrine. I walked away after a long and careful search and weighing of the evidence to determine what was true. In the end faith crumbled easily. Your question doesn't really make much sense from where I sit. You ask as if christianity were a commodity or an asset of some sort, like a car. For example, if the car were blue instead of red, would you decide to keep it? What if the car were turbo charged? People accept christianity because they believe it not because they weigh its pros and cons against other religions and beliefs. I don't believe it anymore, nor is it possible for me to ever believe it again. Jesus said that you have to have the faith of a child. Well, I'm grown up now and I can't return to my childlike innocence. I now know too much and cannot erase what I know, nor do I want to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
been borg again Posted June 17, 2005 Share Posted June 17, 2005 good question, I am party convinced if I grew up in a liberal christian faith, I would still be a christian, that is, I would not have had so many literal paradoxes to think about, like hell and freewill and etc. If I had been taught a more universalist/symbolic perspective of christianity, then it would not have caused so many logical paradoxes. People say the crux of christianity is in the Resurection of Jesus. I disagree, it is for sure the Doctrine of Hell. Without Hell, Christianity falls apart into pieces. I love the concept of Gods unconditional Love (if there is a God), but the doctrine of Hell destroys , by default, any concept that God is anything but a monster. If there is a God, I would bet my eternal destination that God is not the tribal intolerant monster that the Old Test. makes him out to be. i mean come on, who gives a flying shit who eats shrimp or works on Saturday? What a crock of shit. If there is a God, I assume he understands very well the motivations of so many people, that is 99% of us humans do what we do because we desire happiness. nobody deserves or wants hell. How depressing to think otherwise Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NimbusBirdMgp Posted June 17, 2005 Share Posted June 17, 2005 ... The Hell Factor wasn't why I stopped believing. I think that my present life has been experiencing Hell along with the Religion being in contradiction to the answers of this present life. It got to where it all seemed like manipulation to life by its standards and not what is the real standards this world has for us. I want the real aesthetics this life has to offer us, than a Religion that tries to taboo and prevents us from experiencing the life in its more meaningful ways. There has been discovered things about this world, that the Religion wouldn't allow, if it had the power of its ways on everyone through out history. One would have to admit that these people where heretics of the Christian Religion. To have the Science that we know of it today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogmatically_challenged Posted June 17, 2005 Share Posted June 17, 2005 If hell were not part of the Christian Faith, would you have still walked away from it? What else would have to go for you to be able to accept it? Tap <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Read the Jefferson bible and you''l be close to what I think has to go. I maybe..maybe would make Christianity my tradition( not a belief) if the bible were cleaned up of all the ignorance and cruelty. What would really be left though but a few pages and a scattering of passages? heh. Just think. If there is a creator and you hold it in awe you are undermining your own aspirations by believing that that book is a true account of the creator. Why not explore what Quakers are up to? Your soul would flourish in thier worldview. Thats the kind of person you really want to be. I say that because I think deep down inside you really don't like some of the things bible god is said to have done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totallyatpeace Posted June 17, 2005 Author Share Posted June 17, 2005 Why not explore what Quakers are up to? Your soul would flourish in thier worldview. Thats the kind of person you really want to be. I say that because I think deep down inside you really don't like some of the things bible god is said to have done. A link? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caretaker Posted June 17, 2005 Share Posted June 17, 2005 Well, it personally wasn't Hell that pushed me away. It was the lack of a logical basis for me. So Hell being removed would not have made an immediate difference. On the other hand, how different would Christianity be if Hell wasn't a part of it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totallyatpeace Posted June 17, 2005 Author Share Posted June 17, 2005 Your question doesn't really make much sense from where I sit. You ask as if christianity were a commodity or an asset of some sort, like a car. For example, if the car were blue instead of red, would you decide to keep it? What if the car were turbo charged? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> My question is actually a result of what some other Christian members are posting currently on Ex-C. I see the Christian doctrine being softened to attempt to make it more appealing to everyone. So I decided to ask the question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogmatically_challenged Posted June 17, 2005 Share Posted June 17, 2005 Western Quakers For Peace A Webpage worth checking out. In our area. Some quakers are deists and atheists but not most. I think thier nuts but I also think they are more emotionaly intelligent than I could ever be. The only thing I have in common with them is I am a hardcore pacifist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlinfmct87 Posted June 17, 2005 Share Posted June 17, 2005 Hmm. I'm not alltogether sure this thread applies to me, since I never was in Christianity to leave it. However, I'll do my best. Hell, while it is a barbaric doctrine, is not my sole objection to Christianity. Many of the doctrines have been used to make a hell on earth many times throughout history, even into the present... sometimes by taking things out of context, most by taking things literally. Then there is the whole creation story of Genesis... I could never swallow that. Adam living to 900 years old?? I heard some people believe he was 90 feet tall... with Eve being a standard female. Yes, they had kids. Nevermind the point that science has blatantly blown Genesis out of the water. The whole thing has a very bad taint to it... yes, there are beautiful things in the Bible... there are also many, many hideous and immoral things I could never accept honestly. Merlin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerise Posted June 17, 2005 Share Posted June 17, 2005 No Hell wouldn't make a lot of difference if there is no God either. So I guess my answer would be "yes" and "nothing, I'd just have to be shown some proof". Of course, "accepting Christianity as a valid religion" is a lot different from "worshipping God" in any case. Once I have proof of there actually being a god, it would have to prove itself to be worth worshipping before Miss Cerise gets down on bended knee, if you know what I'm sayin'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted June 17, 2005 Share Posted June 17, 2005 If hell were not part of the Christian Faith, would you have still walked away from it? What else would have to go for you to be able to accept it? Tap The Hell concept was an extremely small part of the reason why I de-converted. Maybe it was a step on the way before de-conversion, but it was not the reason. Actually way before I de-converted I had already changed my view on Hell. The last years I was a Christian believing that Hell did not exist. That everyone would come to Heaven. So I was already a heretic. What has to go for Christian Faith to be acceptable to me? Everything! I’m not certain if God exists or not. But I’m certain that if he Do Exist, then he will not be according to any particular religion. You can take pieces from the Bible and all religions if you want to, but to only follow one, then you make a mistake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sokudo Ningyou Posted June 17, 2005 Share Posted June 17, 2005 If hell were not part of the Christian Faith, would you have still walked away from it? What else would have to go for you to be able to accept it? Tap I'm with Merlin on this one; having never actually been a Christian, it's more of a "Why didn't you ever believe?" for me. But the fact remains that even the lack of Hell wouldn't be sufficient enough to lure me in, considering the hypocrisy I've seen almost daily in my life that Christians around me perpetuate, and the fact that the principle book is rife with ignorance and tall tales. If we believe in a jolly red fat man flying around the world in one night to deliver toys after we're seven years old, we're certifiable; but believing in a tiny ark saving two of each creature, a gigantic tower attempting to reach Heaven, people living into their triple digits easily, and, well, a Trinity that's more of a Quad is perfectly reasonable? The basic idea of loving thy neighbor as yourself, treating everyone from the lowest to the highest with equal respect, and basically being a good person without the fear of godly reprisal is an excellent start, however. But I can do that on my own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSpooky Posted June 17, 2005 Share Posted June 17, 2005 I was Wiccan, and Wicca as I practiced it was all about love and good feelings. But I still walked away from it because it simply wasn't true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eccles1:2 Posted June 17, 2005 Share Posted June 17, 2005 I was never really bothered about Hell; I didn't think about it. I also never really considered all the blood and thunder in the OT. No, I just moved slowly away from it all until one day a speech by Douglas Adams clinched it for me. The whole thing just stopped making sense. I then found that if you question the infallibility of the bible, it all unravels like a bad piece of knitting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clearview Posted June 17, 2005 Share Posted June 17, 2005 At first my answer was "no", but upon further examination, I realize that I probably would not have questioned my faith were there no hell doctrine. The reason for this is because, when presented with concepts such as speaking in tongues, being "saved", the correct version of the bible, etc., that the born-again community is so involved in (I was raised Catholic), I started to wonder where all these things came from and if they were true. So I read all I could find all over the Internet, and what came up time and time again was that people who believed in false doctrines go to hell. Upon "learning" that, I studied harder and harder, read the bible, prayed, and though about it constantly, so I could find THE way. Not so much to avoid going to hell, but in order to do the right thing. Obviously, what I found was that it was all bunk and that there was insufficient evidence to belive in ANY of it, much less one particular sect. I wasn't so much afraid of hell, because I never spent one moment of my life thinking that I was going there... Until the moment I realized that I couldn't believe. That's when I freaked out, but that's another story. To sum up, I wouldn't have cared enough to try to figure out exactly what I should believe and therefore wouldn't have come to the place that I am were it not for hell. I would still be taking what I had been taught for granted and would not have questioned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveL Posted June 17, 2005 Share Posted June 17, 2005 Good question TAP, It certainly kept me fearful during my childhood. The devil and the eternal fire scared the crap out of me. I went to a Catholic School, so it was all I really knew. When you're a kid you believe what adults tell you. It didn't change much until I left school. There was a big wide world out there to see and live in. The whole concept seemed to become irrelevant. I also became an adult with thoughts, feelings and opinions of my own. There was just other stuff to do and think about. It was just like a kids fairy tale along with Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zfunkman Posted June 17, 2005 Share Posted June 17, 2005 If hell were not part of the Christian Faith, would you have still walked away from it? What else would have to go for you to be able to accept it? Tap <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yes. Hell is just one of biblegod's injustices that make absolutely no sense. The story of Genesis is an obvious Lie. The story of Noah is definately a Lie. The story of Job is ruthless and brutal. All of the stories where biblegod instructs soldiers to kill all the women and childeren in the Cananite cities is just monstrous. And then there is all the contridictions of so called biblegod. Its time for Humanity to grow up and move on from religion, all religion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mythra Posted June 17, 2005 Share Posted June 17, 2005 The doctrine of hell is one of the main things that kept me a Christian for so long. I was afraid of hell. I followed Pascal's wager. Eternity is a very long time. I stayed a christian just to be on the safe side. TAP, you have no idea how courageous the people are here. To look past the fear of hell and start to examine the evidence with an open mind. We believe so much that Christianity is a deception and a man-made falsehood, that we are willing to risk eternity on it. Every one of us knows that if we are wrong, we will pay a horrible price. And it's scary sometimes. But, we continue to assert that christianity is utterly false. And we poke fun at God and Jesus. What does that tell you about our convictions. As it says in the scriptures, "to thine own self be true" Or, was that Shakespeare Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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