Anglo-saxon Israel?

[Guest BackSlyder]

In my former Christian life, I ran with a group of people that believe the 10 lost tribes of Israel are actually the ancestors of modern day Europeans and European descented Americans. It is said that after the Assyrian captivity, these ten tribes migrated north into the Caucasus Mountains and into the british islands. To top it off, those who sit on the trone of England are direct descendants of the Davidic bloodine because God has to keep his covenant with his people that "the scepter shall not depart from Judah." Does anyone know if their are evidences against this veiw of history?

I often heard it said that "the graveyard of the nation of Israel was the birthplace of the Anglo-Saxon people."

 

Another point they make has to do with etymology. The word "brit" is a hebrew word meaning "covenant." The word "ish" in hebrew originally meant "man" or "men." The word "british" therefore means covenant people. Also, the word Saxon is, they claim, derived from the word "Sacca" or "Isaac" (the patriarch). The word therefore means Isaac-son (Saxon).

 

Does anyone know of any people that dispute this view of history?

[Thurisaz]

Maybe this particular brand of morontheism should first provide some evidence supporting this crap...

 

Just two things that occur to me spontaneously...

 

...so "ish" means "men"? Interesting new meaning this brings to "squeamish", "brutish" et cetera, no?

 

As for "Saxon"... several early tribes in this region of Europe honored a deity called "Saxnot".

 

I guess them morontheists lose again. No surprise, is it?

[mwc]

In my former Christian life, I ran with a group of people that believe the 10 lost tribes of Israel are actually the ancestors of modern day Europeans and European descented Americans. It is said that after the Assyrian captivity, these ten tribes migrated north into the Caucasus Mountains and into the british islands. To top it off, those who sit on the trone of England are direct descendants of the Davidic bloodine because God has to keep his covenant with his people that "the scepter shall not depart from Judah." Does anyone know if their are evidences against this veiw of history?

I often heard it said that "the graveyard of the nation of Israel was the birthplace of the Anglo-Saxon people."

I've heard similar theories in the past. Not this one specifically though. History bears none of this out (it only provides support for 2 whole "tribes"). Judah was a crap heap compared to its neighbors. The "captivity" was probably the best thing that could have happened to it. Israel was much better in comparison and their being destroyed allowed Judah to rise and make claims like their was once a King David that unified our two lands...so we should rule you again. Too bad that the far north, around Galilee wasn't fully converted (at sword point) until around the 2nd century BCE so there really wasn't anything to scatter. Maybe they scattered in waves? Anyhow, there were plenty of people roaming around the area of Europe by this time so it's all wishful thinking.

 

Another point they make has to do with etymology. The word "brit" is a hebrew word meaning "covenant." The word "ish" in hebrew originally meant "man" or "men." The word "british" therefore means covenant people. Also, the word Saxon is, they claim, derived from the word "Sacca" or "Isaac" (the patriarch). The word therefore means Isaac-son (Saxon).

Neat. So you take a word from another language and totally mis-apply it. Good reasoning.

 

Does anyone know of any people that dispute this view of history?

Yeah. You can go through a lot of pain to track down who went where and when (like I awkwardly did above) but I'm pretty sure that some simple DNA tests would blow this theory right out of the water just as it did to the Mormon's claims. I don't think that anyone really actively disputes this view of history (which seems to be what you're looking for) because it's silly and it's up to the proponents of the theory to prove it's plausible.

 

mwc

[Jun]

In my former Christian life, I ran with a group of people that believe the 10 lost tribes of Israel are actually the ancestors of modern day Europeans and European descented Americans. It is said that after the Assyrian captivity, these ten tribes migrated north into the Caucasus Mountains and into the british islands. To top it off, those who sit on the trone of England are direct descendants of the Davidic bloodine because God has to keep his covenant with his people that "the scepter shall not depart from Judah." Does anyone know if their are evidences against this veiw of history?

I often heard it said that "the graveyard of the nation of Israel was the birthplace of the Anglo-Saxon people."

Another point they make has to do with etymology. The word "brit" is a hebrew word meaning "covenant." The word "ish" in hebrew originally meant "man" or "men." The word "british" therefore means covenant people. Also, the word Saxon is, they claim, derived from the word "Sacca" or "Isaac" (the patriarch). The word therefore means Isaac-son (Saxon).

 

Does anyone know of any people that dispute this view of history?

 

The word "British" is the adjectival form of Britain. It's is derived from the ancient Greek Pretannic.

- Wikipedia.

 

The earliest inhabitants of the islands now known as Great Britain and Ireland are described in Greek and Roman sources as Preteni, the origin of the Latin word Britannic.

- Wikipedia.

 

From memory the early inhabitants of Britain spoke the proto-Celtic language (Gàidhlig, Welsh, etc) the Anglo-saxons when they arrived in Britain around the 5th century spoke a few forms of the proto-Germanic language (Old English).

 

The Angles migrated from Denmark and the Saxons from northern Germany. The Frisians and Franks migrated mainly from the low countries and north-western Germany.

[Lycorth]

The Aryan Nations were keen on teaching a form of that. Any secular or mainstream Xian scholar has enough evidence to debunk such tripe.

 

All it is is wishful thinking by Gentiles with a Jesus fetish wanting to roleplay as The Chosen™ because they can't accept their thoroughly non-xian Pagan history

[Artur]

*

[Sceadugenga]

Ahhh yes the "Christian Idenitity" beliefs, which is basically some bizzare and twisted combination of fundamental dogma and white power racial crap - enjoyed a breif flash in the pan within the fringes of British christian society, mainly in groups opposed to Britain's abolition of slavery, most called themselves "British Israelities"... however this fucked up theology found a fertile ground across the pond within the different white power groups in the US following the Civil War, and as others have said it is still flourishing in those groups (ie. Aryan Nations). Basically it's allowing them to combine their religious or sectarian hatred with racial hatred; except instead of it being a group philosophy, it's now a theology preached from the pulpit.

[R. S. Martin]

Very interesting thread. Thanks for all the info on where "we" come from. Somehow, I don't think it's from ancient Israel. But it sure would make sense that I descended from Pagans in northwestern Europe. Some branches of my family can be traced back to Germanic lands (Austria/Germany/Switzerland) after the Reformation. This part of the family has been in North America for about three centuries.

 

There's another part of my family (great-grandmother) that I don't know how to trace back further than the last three generations before me. It would not suprise me if I were to learn somewhere along the line that I have Native American blood. Surely, with three centuries on North American soil, someone had sex with a Native that ended in a pregnancy if not marriage. The Mennonites claim to have lived peacefully with the Indians.

 

I have reason to think that the unaccounted ancestory may have been German Lutheran and I think Lutherans were more into missionary activity than the Mennonites. This could have made for very intimate relationships with Natives, of the kind that pass genes to future generations. Then again, someone from that side of the family said our great-grandmother had Jones blood. That would have been English, wouldn't it?

 

Thus, I may be distantly related to some medieval German or Anglo-Saxon monarch and/or a Mohawk Chief, but very unlikely that I have any of King David's genes.

[Sceadugenga]

Then again, someone from that side of the family said our great-grandmother had Jones blood. That would have been English, wouldn't it?

 

Jones - more like Welsh or Wessex region of England.

 

Thus, I may be distantly related to some medieval German or Anglo-Saxon monarch and/or a Mohawk Chief, but very unlikely that I have any of King David's genes.

 

Anything is possible.... but this is extremely unlikely.

[R. S. Martin]

Then again, someone from that side of the family said our great-grandmother had Jones blood. That would have been English, wouldn't it?

 

Jones - more like Welsh or Wessex region of England.

 

Thus, I may be distantly related to some medieval German or Anglo-Saxon monarch and/or a Mohawk Chief, but very unlikely that I have any of King David's genes.

 

Anything is possible.... but this is extremely unlikely.

 

What is unlikely? That I am related to some long-dead European head of state or North American Native chief? I agree. But I consider it more likely than that I am related to King David of the OT. I think the topic of this thread is to explore whether or not we pale-faced Caucasians could possibly be the ten lost tribes of Israel and I am saying I don't think so.

 

EDIT: Well, or all things, I see this is Post #2000 for me. Seems worthy a little celebration, or at least passing notice. In my life I have often been accused for saying more than my share. Don't know if this is the case here but I have seen others with a very high number of posts so I guess it's acceptable here.

[R. S. Martin]

What happened that this thread got stretched? Usually that happens when someone posts a link that is too long. I don't see any such link and I can't imagine what else would do it. Any ideas?

[HuaiDan]

Oh let it die already. BS, no offense, we all get some misinformation sometimes, but the OP is the sillliest tripe I've heard in a long time.

 

On a side note the etymology of "britain" beyond Greek or Gaelic could be interesting. Haven't seen any yet. But that doesn't support the idea that brits are semites.

[Jun]

Oh let it die already. BS, no offense, we all get some misinformation sometimes, but the OP is the sillliest tripe I've heard in a long time.

 

On a side note the etymology of "britain" beyond Greek or Gaelic could be interesting. Haven't seen any yet. But that doesn't support the idea that brits are semites.

 

The Gàidhlig word for Scotland was Alba and has no connection to the word "Britain."

[HuaiDan]

Woefully ignorant on this, but I was under the impression the Britons were the southern celts. I'm just not clear on whether the brit prefix is celt origin or greek or latin.

[Jun]

It's not Gàidhlig but comes from the Greek Pretannic.

 

The Altrebate were the Southern Celts. The Caereni (from whom my family is descended) were from the Highlands (Upper-western).

 

See here - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celtic_tribes...ain_and_Ireland

[HuaiDan]

Wiki's blocked here. Haven't seen it since they blocked TOR a few weeks back.

[Jun]

Wiki's blocked here. Haven't seen it since they blocked TOR a few weeks back.

 

 

Here it is -

 

Some of the known Celtic tribes in Britain and Ireland were as follows:

 

• The Atrebates were an important tribe in Southern England.
  
• The Belgae settled various places in eastern and southern England.
  
• The Brigantes were an important tribe in northern England and the south-east corner of Ireland.
  
• The Caereni who inhabited the far western Highlands.
  
• The Caledones lived along the Great Glen.
  
• The Cantiaci lived in the area of present-day Kent and give the county its name.
  
• The Carnonacae lived in the western Highlands.
  
• The Cateni lived in the north and west of Sutherland and give the county its Gaelic name.
  
• The Cornovii (Cornish)
  
• The Cornovii (Midlands)
  
• The Cornovii (Caithness)
  
• The Corieltauvi inhabited the East Midlands including Leicester.
  
• The Darini lived in northern Ireland and the western portion of Scotland, these became known as Scotti.
  
• The Dobunni lived in the Cotswolds and the Severn valley.
  
• The Dumnonii (also Damnonii, Domnainn) occupied what are now Devon, Cornwall, Somerset, Strathclyde, and Connacht.^[1][2][3][4]
  
• The Durotriges inhabited Dorset, south Somerset and south Wiltshire.
  
• The Epidii lived in Kintyre and on the islands in that area.
  
• The Iceni, who under Boudica rebelled against the Roman rule of ancient East Anglia.
  
• The Iverni who lived in the County Cork area. It is believed by some linguists that the name Hibernia (the Latin name for Ireland) may derive from this tribe.
  
• The Lugi inhabited southern Sutherland.
  
• The Manapii lived south of what is now known as Dublin, gave their name to Fermanagh and cognate with the Manapia from the Isle of Man.
  
• The Novantes of the west and coastal area of Dumfries and Galloway.
  
• The Ordovices who waged guerrilla warfare from the north Wales hills.
  
• The Parisii settled east Yorkshire and Humberside.
  
• The Regnenses of Hampshire.
  
• The Selgovae who inhabited the north of Dumfries and Galloway.
  
• The Silures likewise resisted the Romans in present-day south Wales.
  
• The Smertae inhabited central Sutherland.
  
• The Taexali lived in Grampian.
  
• The Trinovantes and the Catuvellauni were tribes neighbouring the Iceni, and who joined in their rebellion.
  
• The Uluti (also known as Volunti) in the north-east of Ireland and Lancashire who gave their name to Ulster.
  
• The Vacomagi lived in and around the Cairngorms.
  
• The Venicones who lived in Fife and south-east Tayside in Scotland.
  
• The Votadini lived in north-east England and south-east Scotland and later formed Gododdin.
  

[Toxic]

I know some break away groups of the Worldwide Church of God still teach Anglo Isrealism, and groups like Aryan Nation believe in a Nazified version of it.

[Heimdall]

Does anyone know of any people that dispute this view of history?

 

Yeah, you are referring to a weird belief called “British Israelitism”, I have had several lengthy debates on this subject here in the early days and on Unexplained Mysteries back in 2004. This myth started in 1649 with the publishing of John Sadlers “The Rights of the Kingdom” and reached the status of being a distinct ideology in the 1700’s through the works of Richard Brothers and John Wilson with the Americans (naturally because we are a weird people) jumping on the bandwagon in the late 1700s with “The United States elevated to Glory and Honor” by Ezra Stiles. This idiocy (no substantiation at all, just some very minor coincidences of language and culture) still exists as the Bristish-Israel World Federation. All DNA studies thus far have not provided any substantiation to this theory and actually seem to refute it.

 

Woefully ignorant on this, but I was under the impression the Britons were the southern celts

I seem to recall a recent DNA study that indicated that genetically Brits are closer to the original inhabitants of Britian than the Celts, Romans, Saxons, etc. As I recall, no mention was even made of Israelites in the article.

- Heimdall

[Taphophilia]

According to the Genographic Project which is tracing man's migration throughout the world using DNA markers, a man born around 30,000 years ago in Central Asia from the Haplogroup R1, gave rise to the lineage M173. His descendants were the first large wave of humans to reach Europe. M173 is found in large concentrations in the people of Western Europe, particularly concentrated in Northern France and the British Isles where it is carried by ancestors who had weathered the Ice Age in Spain.