Poll: Is This Abuse?

[L.B.]

Hello all,

 

Those who have read my posts know that for reasons I cannot explain fully right now, I am still employed full-time with a church. I used to be a full-fledged, card-carryin' borned-againer, but I have deconverted personally even if professionally, I am still employed there. I cannot simply quit, hoever; the church owns the house I live in with my family and they pay for every expense we have except phone and car insurance. It's not like I can just announce that I'm leaving and let that be that.

 

Long story short, here's my current situation:

 

Aside from the duties I am expected to perform, I also lead the singing of the congregation and have provided "special music" (read: showing off for the Lawrd). Now, after having had some conflicts with the leadership of the church over some of my departmental decisions, I have finally come to the conclusion that there are some things I just have to "suck up" and take as part and parcel of the job, even if I don't like them; things like:

 

Early office hours that no one else has to keep

Those hours having nothing to do with my actual job, which is an evenings-only job

Having to dress a certain way on official work days like Sunday (not really a big deal)

 

Now, however, even though I am conforming in those ways and trying to be as agreeable as I can, I am ALSO being told that I MUST lead the singing and play special music. There is NO reason why I may not without it being a BIG problem. The music thing is NOT in my job description and it has no bearing on the job I do at all. Yet, when I opted not to perform at an ALL-special-music night because I needed a break, having had a lot of stress lately, the pastor came to me and said, "Ohhh, so you need a break from praising the Lawrd?", as if it's unthinkable to NOT want to sing sometimes.

 

So here's the question... I am basically being told that if I DON'T sing and lead the songs, even if everything else about my job was fine, the leadership would take that as a serious problem; I might even have my job threatened.

 

Is that a form of spiritual abuse? I'm the "anointed" or "gifted" singer and I MUST do this because it's God's will that people be "blessed" by my singing? If I don't want to, it's a "spiritual problem"? I'm not allowed to ask NOT to do it for a week or a few weeks just 'cause I need a breather?

 

I think it's cultish. Remember, I don't agree with their theology, and I DON'T teach their theology; (I DO NOT teach against it either, on their dime, that would be totally dishonest) I am free to come up with my own lessons, and they are all based on generic, human-centered morals and the goals of any decent person, like honesty, love, integrity and peace. Not INcompatible with some of Xtianity, but certainly, I don't teach Jayzus as Lawrd or any of that anymore.

 

So, am I being USED to make the sheeple happy with my singing and being kept around even though we are at odds in so many other ways? Permit me a little immodesty, but I am the best singer in the church, no question. I have 20 years' experience in both secular and religious settings, and have had offers to record and so on. I don't MIND singing for them, in the sense that I am their best singer and that my leading helps the group to sing better and encourages them, but it scares me that I am not allowed to imagine needing a break from it.

[SWIM]

You sound like you *are* being used and abused, but more so by yourself then by them. You *know* better, you are allowing yourself to live indefinitely in *conflict*. You are de-converted, yet you still enable the monster known as the church by actively helping them spread and grow.

 

This is similar to declaring you *hate* terrorism while taking a hand in IED manufacture, after all, *you* aren't the one setting it off, so what's the harm?

 

I fully understand you are trapped. You are trapped in a world you wrapped around yourself before de-conversion. I have a lot of sympathy for you, but now you are "sleeping with the enemy of free thinking". You owe it to yourself to do this:

 

Suck it up, do lip service or whatever you need to do to stay covert for *now*, but you also need to be *actively* searching realistically for a way out. don't let the lure of an easy life make you sell out your conscious. You will find life is pure hell because of the constant inner betrayal of your own self, and the good life you think you have with a *free* house is actually a nightmare, trapped existence.

 

Good luck to you. Do the right thing. Withdraw. Just my opinion, and you know what they say about opinions...

[Deva]

L.B. I have read a number of your posts and, stepping out on a limb a bit because I don't of course know you personally, it seems like you are being torn apart inside by continuing to be employed by this church.

 

I have to agree with Michael. Given the problems you state, it would be best for you to withdraw. Not easy by any means. Having your livelihood tied to something you disagree with on principal so much is just not sustainable in the long term unless you can find some way to reconcile it in your mind; not let it bother you so much, and continue to go on just for the sake of keeping a roof over your head. You say "I cannot simply quit, hoever; the church owns the house I live in with my family and they pay for every expense we have except phone and car insurance. It's not like I can just announce that I'm leaving and let that be that." That is being held like a whip over your head. Of course, just my opinion for what it's worth.

[LithaB]

I think it's cultish. Remember, I don't agree with their theology, and I DON'T teach their theology; (I DO NOT teach against it either, on their dime, that would be totally dishonest) I am free to come up with my own lessons, and they are all based on generic, human-centered morals and the goals of any decent person, like honesty, love, integrity and peace. Not INcompatible with some of Xtianity, but certainly, I don't teach Jayzus as Lawrd or any of that anymore.

 

So, am I being USED to make the sheeple happy with my singing and being kept around even though we are at odds in so many other ways? Permit me a little immodesty, but I am the best singer in the church, no question. I have 20 years' experience in both secular and religious settings, and have had offers to record and so on. I don't MIND singing for them, in the sense that I am their best singer and that my leading helps the group to sing better and encourages them, but it scares me that I am not allowed to imagine needing a break from it.

 

It sounds to me like you are the victim of some passive agressive bullying. If you don't agree with the leaders' theology and you don't teach it, then they most certainly hate you with a depth of fervor that only born-again church leaders can acheive. No one can keep that much hatred bottled up, so they must find "loving" ways to express it. LIke burning someone at the stake to save their soul. Since that is no longer legal, they are finding other ways to punish your insubordination.

 

I think your only defense is to feign repentance and stay, or find another job ASAP and get the hell out.

 

Or you could get passive agressive right back at them, and start "accidentally" singing the wrong words at your special music performances.

 

"Amazing Grace, how sweet her mound..."

 

:ohmy:

[Amethyst]

Wow.

 

I would say you are definitely being manipulated. You say the church owns your house and pays for almost everything, and you will lose it if you don't do what they want. That is ultimate control.

 

You have two choices. 1, continue to let them control and manipulate you or 2, find a new place to live and a new job. There are other jobs in music on this planet, which you know. It's not as if the church is the only option.

[Japedo]

To answer you question, Yes it is abuse. But we all know that is what the cult is built on guilt, abuse, and isolation to anyone that doesn't toe the dogmatic line. Independent thought or ideas is frowned upon there is nothing new there. Leaders need to project a unity before Gawd in order to lead the sheep. They have a gun to your head, you comply with them or you and your family are homeless, I would say this is how the majority of Xtains are. Their way or the highway. Of course they will smear your name and tell everyone Satan has mislead you or some such garbage.

 

 

You probably know and see this better then most. I think you are a guy with high integrity. I believe you feel dishonest keeping on the charade. You're in a catch 22. Of course the welfare of your family comes first and foremost, I don't think anyone would openly advocate becoming homeless as a wise choice. I think if nothing else you need to figure out some sort of plan on a timeline and execute that with your wife's help. You might be able to fake it if there is a light at the end of the tunnel so to say. Did you sign a lease of some sort that have any provisions or loop holes that you can maybe capitalize on to stay there while you find another job/place to live?

 

A few things to consider maybe? Do you have any friends or family that are not so involved with the cult that would allow you guys to stay there until you get on your feet? On your time off can you possibly look for another means to support yourself and family not church orientated? Even if it is church related how about Unitarian churches or another humanist ideology that would be better suited for you?

 

It sounds like you're suffocating in oppression, They have you by the balls so to speak. For the sake of your wonderful mind and your families mind and welfare I agree with everyone else. Leave as soon as humanly possible. I know that none of us are in your shoes and this has got to be one of the most impossible predicaments. I wish you much luck with this horrific situation. I hope you also escape with little damage to you and your family.

 

 

(((( HUGS )))))

[Amethyst]

You probably know and see this better then most. I think you are a guy with high integrity. I believe you feel dishonest keeping on the charade. You're in a catch 22. Of course the welfare of your family comes first and foremost, I don't think anyone would openly advocate becoming homeless as a wise choice. I think if nothing else you need to figure out some sort of plan on a timeline and execute that with your wife's help. You might be able to fake it if there is a light at the end of the tunnel so to say. Did you sign a lease of some sort that have any provisions or loop holes that you can maybe capitalize on to stay there while you find another job/place to live?

 

Definitely agree with Japedo, have a plan before you quit. Make sure you have somewhere for you and your family to stay, at least an apartment, if nothing else.

 

Also: Are you using your home computer to access Ex-C and does the church pay for your internet too? If so, I'd be very careful if I were you.

[♦ nivek ♦]

LB,

 

Yer looking at this all incorrect and such..

 

When yer surrounded by id-jee-ots who hate and dispise you, want to lift your hair, and do dispicable deeds to you, you gotta remember that ANY WAY YOU FIRE IS GONNA HIT A BADGUY... You can't miss.

 

So a shooting battle isn't a great analogy to work this problem out with.

 

My advise? Take the King's coing until you find someone else eho will help you make as good or better a living as you are making now.

 

If yer good, have talent, and a good track record with employment, slide out of this gig into something else without taking a huge shit on the carpet.

 

Deconversion and unbelief can, and in your case has, left folks high and dry on the rocks. Deal with keeping self, family and bills covered, work on finding a gig that you can do that doesn't drive you mentally more nuts.

 

Keep this one, even with the problems you've mentioned for as long as you can stand it. This afternoon is a good time to start repopping the resume and getting it prettied up, readied to send out.

 

Remember this LB, our economy is taking a deep shit, we're on the cusp of seeing things fall down hard. ANY job will beat fuck outa NO job. Think hard about where you are at, where you want to go with tools and skills you own.

 

If sticking around this doesn't slay your life and you can continue to ride it, do so until you've found the next Big Thing and change rides..

 

kL

[Rhia]

Hey,

 

I'm so sorry they're giving you this crap. ((((L.B.))))

 

What I'm wondering is whether or not you have the means to start searching for a job that's not involved in the ministry. Maybe social work, non-religious counselling, etc - I think at the present time that finding a new job would be best, especially if your job is in jeopardy at the time being.

 

Yes, I think you're being abused, and taken advantage of in a really sick way; you should be allowed a break for the sake of mental health in any job!

 

Good luck to you, because as much as I can give my opinion of "run far, far away"; it's ultimately up to you just how much you can take before you break.

[Taphophilia]

L.B.

 

I think they know they have you by the balls and take a perverse delight in squeezing them. I agree with Skip. Do whatever it takes. Sorry, but even if you have to go so far as intellectual dishonesty, do it. It's not just you that you have to think about, it's your family. Send out your resume but do not under any circumstances let the church know. Buy as much time as you can in order to find a decent well paying job.

 

Taph

[pitchu]

L.B., I don't think you need my assurance that you're being used and abused, since that seems the unanimous response around here. I'll add one other thought, though:

 

Their immoral behavior toward you has released you from any obligation of having to deal with them morally. From this point on, if there's any lie you can tell ("I've been vomiting all night -- sorry -- can't come in") any leverage you can manage or advantage you can take -- anything which makes your transition to a better life easier and more efficient, imo, under these circumstances it's your right. Maybe it's even your duty to yourself and your family.

 

Good luck with everything you're facing.

[garrisonjj]

Hello all,

 

Those who have read my posts know that for reasons I cannot explain fully right now, I am still employed full-time with a church. I used to be a full-fledged, card-carryin' borned-againer, but I have deconverted personally

 

Perhaps it is abuse, however you have to eat. I view this situation a little differently from the others. Yes, if I could find an equally high paying job, certainly consider it. If not, take this as a challenge to your personal convictions and just say FUCK IT and sing your heart out!

 

Take the pay you deserve, play the part, and leave it in the church!

 

My personal analogy is attending mass out of social constraints occasionally, receiving in the state of "mortal sin" as the church views it and walking out and saying to myself, "So the fuck what?" Its all fairytales anyway?

 

That's just my take> Do what is best for you. Congratulations on your tremendous singing and musical skills. Be well!

[mwc]

First of all I agree with the others. Lots of good stuff already said. You need to plan your escape.

 

Now, however, even though I am conforming in those ways and trying to be as agreeable as I can, I am ALSO being told that I MUST lead the singing and play special music. There is NO reason why I may not without it being a BIG problem. The music thing is NOT in my job description and it has no bearing on the job I do at all. Yet, when I opted not to perform at an ALL-special-music night because I needed a break, having had a lot of stress lately, the pastor came to me and said, "Ohhh, so you need a break from praising the Lawrd?", as if it's unthinkable to NOT want to sing sometimes.

On my jobs my job description usually had the little addendum "...and any other little crap things we can think of for mwc to do." Maybe yours is different? What you need to do is find a doctor to say your voice needs a rest. Go and wear it out on purpose if need be then see the doctor. Whatever. Just get it in writing. Then show the folks and say that you told them so. You need a break. Use this time to shop for another job.

 

So here's the question... I am basically being told that if I DON'T sing and lead the songs, even if everything else about my job was fine, the leadership would take that as a serious problem; I might even have my job threatened.

The thing about churches is that if they want to screw you...they will. They hide pedophiles and other abusers so covering up something like you not doing extra chores is a piece of cake.

 

Is that a form of spiritual abuse?

What's that? You OWE "GOD!" You should be so lucky to sing for them.

 

I think it's cultish. Remember, I don't agree with their theology, and I DON'T teach their theology; (I DO NOT teach against it either, on their dime, that would be totally dishonest)

Are they aware of this? If not I smell some rationalization.

 

You're being squeezed because of how much of you they control. Others have said it. Find a way to not sing for them to save your sanity and get out of there. You're finding out what "selling your soul" really means and far worse than the hell they're peddling.

 

mwc

[Piprus]

LB,

 

Like everyone else, I agree...you are being used and abused in this situation. Of course, in a way you're using the church as well, because you're not being genuine. But I'm wondering if the church leaders are suspecting something. Perhaps there's been some gossip behind your back that you're unaware of and they're putting you to the test. They may already be thinking you're really a closet atheist or agnostic just along for the ride. They may be hitting you with some genteel torments to entice you either to come out in the open or leave. Such things happen all the time when an employee becomes an undesirable for whatever reason.

 

In any event...no doubt about it. Best thing to do is plan your exit and go for it. It could be rough going at first, but peace of mind and the meeting of the challenge will be your strengths.

 

Good luck LB.

[R. S. Martin]

Now, however, even though I am conforming in those ways and trying to be as agreeable as I can, I am ALSO being told that I MUST lead the singing and play special music. There is NO reason why I may not without it being a BIG problem. The music thing is NOT in my job description and it has no bearing on the job I do at all. Yet, when I opted not to perform at an ALL-special-music night because I needed a break, having had a lot of stress lately, the pastor came to me and said, "Ohhh, so you need a break from praising the Lawrd?", as if it's unthinkable to NOT want to sing sometimes.

 

That's emotional manipulation, guilt-tripping. He knows it's not in your job description so that's all he's got at his disposal. He absolutely needs your talent to get folks to show up for his program--otherwise folks won't show up and his program will be a flop and his own paycheque will suffer. And well, we know how that works. If he want's a music festival at which you will perform he needs the decency to get your consent to perform before he plans it.

 

Since he has neither the decency to ask your consent, the maturity to accept that you need a breather due to being over-worked, nor any of the other good qualities of respect that normal people need to show each other for good human relationships esp. when it concerns expecting stuff outside job descriptions, maybe he needs to be reminded. What would happen if you calmly reminded him of your job description and that singing was not part of it?

 

If the entire leadership is as immature as the pastor, I can well see that your job may be in danger, and that is indeed abuse. I understand there is a contract and I would think the contract is carefully spelled out regarding what both sides must contribute. Anything over and above that should require negotiation when all parties are mature and respectful of each other. That is my thoughts on the matter. I have not yet read the other posts.

[R. S. Martin]

I read the thread now. I think Piprus may be right--they're smelling something and they're testing you. By his sneering remark about needing a break from praising the lord the pastor was putting you on the spot--or trying to. My guess is you were too smart for him but it's wearing you down.

[par4dcourse]

Sounds like a vegan in a meat packing plant. Sooner or later somethings got to give. Better to be prepared.

[South2003]

You will find life is pure hell because of the constant inner betrayal of your own self

 

Now ain't that the Truth!

[white_raven23]

Two choices.

 

Suck it up and be their bitch.

 

Start sending out resume's, start taking some classes leading directly to an employable vocation (hint: economy may be in the toilet, but folks are still going to drink = bartending school), do something to get the ball slowly rolling to get your ass out of there.

 

Even if you haven't come clean to your wife about your deconversion, you don't have to give that as your reason for looking for a job elsewhere. You can always tell her it's time to stop living off the church's "kindness".

[Guest CBenjaminHaag]

Abused? Maybe; manipulated, indeed.

 

In my church days I heard words like "annointed" tossed around with such nonchalance that they rapidly lost all meaning...along with my second favorite, "Godly."

 

At the risk of asking an obtusely inspired question, do the church powers-that-be know about your deconversion? Seems a tad hard to play the "annointing" card when you seem to have washed off the ointment, as it were.

 

Ideology aside, if you are being required to take time to do what is outside your job description, it seems to me that you deserve either a new job description or a get-out-of-music card. Unless the churchites know that your living scenario puts you at a bargaining disadvantage, which of course would be shitty in the extreme.

 

Benjamin

[L.B.]

Benjamin said:

 

"Unless the churchites know that your living scenario puts you at a bargaining disadvantage, which of course would be shitty in the extreme."

 

Well, they ALL know our living situation... we live literally across the street from the church, to the degree that the average person could easily break a window in the house with a rock from the front steps of the church.

 

UPDATE: The pastor gave the board a list of my "weaknesses"... he made statements on this list that neither the board nor I understood in our latest meeting. The pastor refused to explain any of the statements to any of us, simply telling the board that after the meeting, if I had questions I was to see him.

 

Can you all see the control battle going on here? The board wants someone that will be a busybody making the church look good to the fundies (cue the senior pastor). The senior pastor wants someone he can order around because otherwise he has no one that must report to him like he has to report to the board (that's where I was supposed to come in). The pastor then makes statements that he doesn't explain, trying his best to force the board to depend on him instead of the other way around. The biggest problem is that the last guy in my job was an unmitigated asshole who made unreasonable demands and made the idea of a job like mine a bitter thing for the board to deal with. So now I'm stuck between a board and a pastor who are getting into pissing matches, and all the while, as soon as I ask questions or assert my positions on anything, they go into defense mode and threaten me with firing unless I submit.

 

Check this scenario out, guys:

 

Boardmember: How do you feel things are going (after reading the list of my weaknesses)

 

Me: I think things are going well. I am challenging my class members with probing questions and they are growing in their ability to think.**

 

Boardmember: Have you ever heard the phrase "no spin zone"? Don't put a spin on the situation.

 

Me: I'm not spinning. You asked how things are going. What I said is true of my ministry regardless of whether these other issues are true or not.

 

Boardmember: Hrrrumph.

 

**NOTE: I DO challenge my class members with probing questions that force them to think. I love asking how the polar bears and koalas and so on could have made it to the mid-east and Noah's ark.

 

Anyway, the battle continues... I stil have to try and address the idea that I don't want to do the singing thing, at least not right now... somehow, the board never let us get around to that topic at the last meeting.

[Mongo]

For starters... your situation sucks. My sincerest sympathies.

 

Ben, I'm going to break from the pack here but please understand, I think you have a lot of issues to consider here and I don't think your thinking processes have been adequately challenged. So I'm going to challenge your thinking. Try not to be offended. If you disagree, fine. It is your life, make your own choices.

 

And you DO have my sympathy but I don't think you have thought this through.

 

To be a fundy is to be abused. Are you more abused than others? Well... yes but you and your wife have had your hands on the rudder. I think that point is irrelevant.

 

I don't live my life without injury. When I am hurt, I take steps to heal my wounds or I make accommodation for what cannot be healed. Yes... I do swear at the hammer or saw but I know that it was *I* whose hand that guided the tool just as you and your wife have placed yourselves into the church.

 

Yes it sucks but you need to seriously ask what are *you* going to do to heal these injuries?

 

What I find fascinating about your story is that I have yet to hear you say, "I can't wait to get out of there". Hell, you haven't even said, "Do you think I should leave?" (Answer is "Hell yes"!)

 

So I am forced to assume (correct me if you like) that you are trying to find a way to:

1 keep your teaching job

2 live in harmony with a bunch of fundamentalists

3 feel good about yourself

 

I hope I'm wrong but if I'm not, then I think you are fooling yourself. For your own good, pull your head out of the sand and start making a plan.

 

Mongo

[BlueGiant]

Ummm, so your housing and employment are based upon two entities that are engaged in a power struggle and aren't afraid to use you and/or your family as a bargaining chip...yeah, I think it is time to GTFO of Dodge. And find a new job. You're going to be subject to whatever bullshit they feel like as long as they have you like this.

 

Not like I need to tell you this, but be careful. You're in a room full of snakes, you're going to get bit, and if they found out about your current beliefs...yeah. Definately get a contingency plan ready just in case.

 

I'd also check your contract and local laws regarding eviction/housing in your area. If they try to boot you before you're ready to leave, you're going to have to fight them.

 

And good luck.

[L.B.]

Thanks for all the encouragement, folks. Actually, the fact is that I CAN'T wait to get out of there. The big prob is that my wife and I have 2 small kids and another due in January. We make decent money with no mortgage or utilities to pay, but it's still not enough to do everything we need to AND save up to move (works out to about 12 bucks an hour). We have already agreed that we are NEVER going to darken the door of a church again when we get out of this fucking mess. Please understand that I am doing everything in my power to keep a roof over our heads without tipping my hand and giving them a reason to evict us immediately. The sense of how delicate and fragile this situation is cannot be fully expressed in words. Please continue to offer advice and encouragement... I appreciate it. If anyone lives in New Jersey, please feel free to send me a private message and point us in the direction of housing or loans or whatever we can use to get a plan and some resources together for the inevitable confrontation and move that will come in the near future.

 

Be well. I will update you all as things develop.

[PandaPirate]

I would say to use this as a learning experience and to NEVER let anyone have that much control over your life. Make sure that in the future YOU own your house. YOU own your car. YOU are the only one you have to answer to. You can create the life you want and that may involve risk.