Not_Scarevangelist Posted December 15, 2007 Share Posted December 15, 2007 Hello, dear ex-christians, christians and all readers of the forum! I registered a minute ago (though I've been reading the articles for a while). I'm from a small country in Eastern Europe. That means that I'm supposed to be an Orthodox Christian. But I'm not, I'm Protestant. And I do believe in Jesus. However, when I was young I didn't believe in any Gods. Well, I thought that after death we disappear, we fall asleep or whatever you name it. And I was scared of it. I was scared of the unknown. Then suddenly I started to believe in God and found Jesus. I knew that Jesus was supposed to save me from death, because the wages of sin is death. But, sooner or later, someone told me that unbelievers won't die but will suffer concious eternal torment in hell. That was what I couldn't accept. I can't believe that a loving God will send billions of people in Hell suffering forever and ever and with no end.And I find it weird that there are a lot of people (including my girlfriend) who accept this as something normal. Then my nervous breakdown started... But it didn't last for long. Now... I know that nobody is going to be punished literally for ever and ever. I discovered, that Jesus is the saviour of the world, not just a few. Praise the Lord, Jesus Christ, who indeed wants to save all of us and who won't punish anybody forever! That's why I came... To share the good news with you. And if you accept Jesus again, you will learn how to serve him... not because you're scared of him but because you trully LOVE HIM with your heart. Yes, there is God. Yes, God is Love. Yes, Hell is an invention of the Church and it's a false teching. Yes, some day all will repent. Some - in this lifetime, others - in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deva Posted December 15, 2007 Share Posted December 15, 2007 Yes, there is God.Yes, God is Love Yes, Hell is an invention of the Church and it's a false teching. Yes, some day all will repent. Some - in this lifetime, others - in the future. Great, another halfway xian. If there is no hell and God is love, why the need for repentence? Do you believe in the atonement? Do you accept sin? Does God just punish for a little while instead of for eternity? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not_Scarevangelist Posted December 15, 2007 Author Share Posted December 15, 2007 Well, it's not like "there is no hell". There is judgement. The bible says that our God is fire. We take it seriously. So... better to repent and not taste the wrath of God. Also, Universalism is more like an idea. Maybe there will be annihilation for some people. But most certainly I don't believe in everlasting torment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWIM Posted December 15, 2007 Share Posted December 15, 2007 Well, it's not like "there is no hell". There is judgement. The bible says that our God is fire. We take it seriously. So... better to repent and not taste the wrath of God. Also, Universalism is more like an idea. Maybe there will be annihilation for some people. But most certainly I don't believe in everlasting torment. Oh yeah, better be safe then sorry eh? bwahahahaha pascal's wager keeps so many in bondage, its foolish! Why not read up on it? http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/theism/wager.html There is a gazzillion links on it too. Dig, learn, stop being "skeered", get you an "ain't skeered" bumper sticker and stop all that non-sense. Hey, If you don't eat at Burger King, you will end up in the great fry-vat after you die. Look above at that sentence. There it is in print. "I" claim it was inspired by god. Now the ball is in your court. Eat at BK or burn. So, where you gonna eat tonight? See how damn stupid that is? It's EXACTLY the same wager. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWIM Posted December 15, 2007 Share Posted December 15, 2007 That's why I came... To share the good news with you. Either you cannot read, a child, or a complete MORON to think a large group of EX-CHRISTIANS have not "heard" the fuckin retarded "good news". I somehow missed that when I first replied to you. And its "heresy" not Herecy... Fuckin dumbass... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not_Scarevangelist Posted December 15, 2007 Author Share Posted December 15, 2007 Well, now I see the fruit of your atheism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWIM Posted December 15, 2007 Share Posted December 15, 2007 Well, now I see the fruit of your atheism. Yup, and we see the "fruits" of your ignorance and lack of common sense, fruitcake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not_Scarevangelist Posted December 15, 2007 Author Share Posted December 15, 2007 never mind, I don't care Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWIM Posted December 15, 2007 Share Posted December 15, 2007 Sorry, bashing on me doesn't help. LOL I am not "trying" to help you, just pointing out the obvious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not_Scarevangelist Posted December 15, 2007 Author Share Posted December 15, 2007 The obvious... the obvious... well, I see the obvious. The creation... Do you know what the Bible says about it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not_Scarevangelist Posted December 15, 2007 Author Share Posted December 15, 2007 Doh I found it. Quoting the forum. The Bible calls all those who do not believe in its god a fool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWIM Posted December 15, 2007 Share Posted December 15, 2007 The obvious... the obvious... well, I see the obvious. The creation... Do you know what the Bible says about it? Do you know I don't give a rats ass what it says about it? It's a manmade book. Mildly interesting at best. And yes I know what it says about it, was in that twisted religion years ago, am 46 and read it several times. Have you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not_Scarevangelist Posted December 15, 2007 Author Share Posted December 15, 2007 Yes, it's a manmade book but it's inspired by God. Don't you know that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted December 15, 2007 Share Posted December 15, 2007 But I do hope that more Christians could wake up and see it the way Not_Scary does, because I doubt that all Christians can de-convert. If they at least could get off their fundamentalist attitude the world would be a bit better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWIM Posted December 15, 2007 Share Posted December 15, 2007 Yes, it's a manmade book but it's inspired by God. Don't you know that? Oh no I didn't oh great one, where is the proof of that? Hmmm... musta missed that in all these years... LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gusdafa Posted December 15, 2007 Share Posted December 15, 2007 So... better to repent and not taste the wrath of God. Repent? Repent for what? Not believing in him because of insufficient evidence? Come to think of it, if there is a hell and your god cant kill my spirit/ghost, I would like to have all my faculties while I'm there. This is because I learn a lot with time, and eventually I figure out a way to get out and waltz up to heaven to have an eternal ass kicking contest with your jesus and god. I'm the perpetual ass kicking machine when I die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not_Scarevangelist Posted December 15, 2007 Author Share Posted December 15, 2007 You don't need evidence do believe in God. He stands outside, outside the spacetime, the Universe and... I'm tired for today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not_Scarevangelist Posted December 15, 2007 Author Share Posted December 15, 2007 But I do hope that more Christians could wake up and see it the way Not_Scary does, because I doubt that all Christians can de-convert. If they at least could get off their fundamentalist attitude the world would be a bit better. Universalists are not fundamentalists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted December 15, 2007 Share Posted December 15, 2007 Well, it's not like "there is no hell". There is judgement. The bible says that our God is fire. We take it seriously. So... better to repent and not taste the wrath of God. Also, Universalism is more like an idea. Maybe there will be annihilation for some people. But most certainly I don't believe in everlasting torment. Here's the problem. Since you admit that interpreting the Bible is hard and can be done in the wrong ways, this means the message from God is very vague and hard to know for certainty. Now based on a vague and blurry understanding of God's will, we are supposed to make a decision that is eternal. In other words, God is incoherent in his deliever of the most important message we ever had, and if we get the interpretation wrong he will fry us for his own entertainment for one eternity, two eternities, three eternities, infinite number of eternities squared and times the next infinite number. Now, that doesn't sound right, does it? If his message was so important, then Christianity would be one and unified and not diversified. Unless, the interpretation of the message isn't that important for the judgment! If the interpretaion isn't that important, then perhaps even we will go to Heaven, because Christianity is just a tool or a help God gave humanity to find him, but if you decide not to, but still try your best of being a good person, he still will consider that okay in his book. Think about this. What happens to people who never heard the Gospel and don't believe in God? Will God judge them differently? If so, then isn't it a better chance to not tell anyone about God and Jesus and let them live in ignorance, since they would have a better chance of actually getting to Heaven? By you spreading your Gospel, you force their hand and if they chose not to believe, you are partially liable for their decision which would have rendered a lesser sentence if you had not told them. Judgment and Hell and free will and a blurry message, it all comes back to one thing... humans made up God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted December 15, 2007 Share Posted December 15, 2007 But I do hope that more Christians could wake up and see it the way Not_Scary does, because I doubt that all Christians can de-convert. If they at least could get off their fundamentalist attitude the world would be a bit better. Universalists are not fundamentalists. I know, and I didn't say that. What I really meant was that I wish there were more liberal/universalist Christians and hopefully no fundamentalist at all. Because it's the next best. The best would be if everyone could realize the delusion they live in, but it's hardly feasible. So my second choice is if all Christians could become less fundamentalist and more universalists. Capice? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gusdafa Posted December 15, 2007 Share Posted December 15, 2007 You don't need evidence do believe in God. He stands outside, outside the spacetime, the Universe and... I'm tired for today. If I define "outside the spacetime, the universe and... " as nothing, then he exists in nothing? Am I reading your bible wrong again? Is the holy spirit making you tired or is it because of the devil in our posts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWIM Posted December 15, 2007 Share Posted December 15, 2007 I'm tired for today. Good, don't let the door hit you in the ass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted December 15, 2007 Share Posted December 15, 2007 You don't need evidence do believe in God. He stands outside, outside the spacetime, the Universe and... I'm tired for today. I understand, but it requires a mind (a person) who see the world in symbols rather in factuals. Unfortunately I used to be that way but now I have come to a point where evidence is important to believe. Think about this: you say the Universe is the evidence of a God. Doesn't it mean that you actually think that evidence is important to believe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not_Scarevangelist Posted December 15, 2007 Author Share Posted December 15, 2007 HanSolo, don't forget that even the first coming of Jesus is a blurry message based on some old testament writings. It's all about faith. If you believe, you don't see it as blurry. You may say it's brainwashing, yes, maybe... Even early christians have been called drunk. But... it's all about faith. Not proof/disproof. I feel it in this way, you feel it in another way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not_Scarevangelist Posted December 15, 2007 Author Share Posted December 15, 2007 You don't need evidence do believe in God. He stands outside, outside the spacetime, the Universe and... I'm tired for today. If I define "outside the spacetime, the universe and... " as nothing, then he exists in nothing? Am I reading your bible wrong again? Is the holy spirit making you tired or is it because of the devil in our posts? Why do you define the outside as nothing? If we read stephen hawking essays we may come up with the idea about parallel universes, imaginery time and whatever you call it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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