chaddjohnson Posted January 24, 2008 Share Posted January 24, 2008 I need to blow off some steam and rant a little, and this site is currently my only resource for this. I think my life would have been so much better had christianity not reared its filthy head. I have absolutely no one at all in person who shares my views even remotely. No true friends that stood beside me through my deconversion. I hate the fact that I have to hide how I feel from everyone around me in order to avoid (reverse) persecution and excommunication. I hate the fact that I cannot talk with my parents openly about my feelings and that they feel sorry for me. I hate the fact that all my friends are/were christians. I feel robbed of so much. I have no friends anymore; I am insecure; I am hateful and unhappy and not fun to be around; I am bitter and cynical. Most of all, I feel robbed of my goals in life. As I was raised to be a christian from an early and naive age, my goals until I became an atheist were "to glorify god." Now, I have no real goals. I mean, I am great with computers, and I've gotten enjoyment from learning Linux and how to program, etc., but who cares? Someone has already done that before. I had no real life-long dreams from an early age like most kids have--like developing some new technology, or being a scientist. Pretty much all that was emphasized when I was young was god. This *royally* PISSES ME OFF. I do NOT want to be a pansy, uneducated missionary. I also believe it has also made me weak (unfit) and disorganized. Growing up convinced that I was going to be a missionary, I almost never studied; I did not care about school as I was convinced that it simply did not matter (but man it does). Along those lines of belief, science did not matter, and mathematics had little use on the mission field. Thus, I was disorganized and a slacker. Now I have been less able to do well in society. Furthermore, being in a christian society, I believe, has facilitated weakness in me. Too much reward (e.g. "Oh, it's ok"; too much "respect"; to passive) and not enough punishment makes people unable to do well in society, and it makes them pansies. It takes real-world punishment for people to learn to survive well. Now that I am older and full-grown, my neurological makeup is set, and it would be very hard to change (i.e. to become secure, happy, goal-oriented). Whenever hear christian catch-phrases or christians trying to impose their ways on society, I become very aggressive, and all the reasons I hate christians and their ideas instantly flare up in my mind (and often come out my mouth). I hate that I am this way...it goes against my philosophy, but as it is that I have no one and nothing in my life to counter this, I am unable to change this. I wish there was not such disaccord with society in my life. I have to go to a fucking bible class every other goddamned day of the fucking week. Every morning when I drive to class, my anger builds. Each time I repeat to myself the reasons why I hate these people and their ideas. And it's not just the school...it's (most of) the whole town. Every place I go--the coffee shop, the book store, school, even Walmart--I hear someone talking about Jesus or evolution or atheists, or I see people trying to sell some christian shit (e.g. some stupid christian sitting behind a table outside the entrance of Walmart, trying to make people feel guilty for not giving), or a billboard that says, "Where would you go if you died tonight?", or some stupid asshole holding up a sign at the courthouse that says "HEAVEN OR HELL". I HATE THIS...I hate having other peoples' dispositions forced on me. It is seriously enough to drive one insane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GraphicsGuy Posted January 24, 2008 Share Posted January 24, 2008 Well, I can certainly relate to pretty much all of your feelings. Definitely to the lack of goals and career "choice" that you may be stuck with. I don't have any real advice at the moment, though. I'm not sure how to deal with the anger myself except to let it run its course. As for all the Xianese stuff around you...well Xians would say that God is after you (barf). If anyone tells you that, let 'em have it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MathGeek Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 I sort of know how you feel. I highly dislike the fact that everywhere I turn my vision, I can see some reference to Christianity. You cannot escape it in this culture, and it is sad fact that one must come to grips with. You have finally awakened to rationality but the remainder of society might never do it, and there is the opposing fact that people like you and I are now will toss away the rationality because they believe delusion is far more comfortable than cold, hard truth. This may seem incorrect to you or I, because that brutal two-pronged fork called choice is the concept that rules the intellect of every shell on this island Earth. I agree with you greatly, but the world will throw the single finger salute at us because we are in the unpopular minority. That is bold and cold to put it mildy, but you are not alone out there. That may be the only comfort at this moment in your life. Right now, anything that makes you feel positive is what need to have in your life right now. Find it and hold onto it tightly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExConfusedChristian Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 Hey there, I just wanted to say hi and to underline that YOU ARE NOT ALONE. I have some non-xian friends and although they don't understand where I'm coming from completely now that I've deconverted it's so helpful to be able to tell them about it. You don't have that right now and that must be so tough. We are here and just knowing that hopefully will help. Give yourself some time - I don't think anyone is a hopeless case. I have changed tremendously over the course of a few years (no thanks to god) and it has been through determination and belief that I didn't need to stay stuck where I was. At the same time, I gave myself time and knew it wouldn't happen overnight. You know, the whole two steps forward, one step back thing. Come back and vent anytime! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreeFromReligion Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 I'm curious, are you in college? You state you're grown, but then mention going to bible classes every other day? Why? I know that it will be difficult, but you are the owner of your life and you do have the ability to change it. It may not be easy to do, but you can. You have every right to be angry and feel you've wasted your time, but you have to eventually get over it so you can get clear on what you really want to do with your life. You need to find out what things you enjoy in life. If you weren't a Christian from an early age, think about what you wanted to do with your life when you were a child. You can actually turn this around and become very excited about your life because now you don't have any religious restraints to stop you from exploring other avenues to pursue in your life. You may find yourself going down a particular career path that you enjoy so much that it doesn't really seem like work. There's a whole world that's open to you now and the only one who can stop you is you...believing you don't have any choices or that you're stuck right where you are. You're not! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TheTruthHurts Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 Hey MathGeek! Is your twelfth-root-of-two avatar a reference to the tempered scale? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R. S. Martin Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 Skeftomai, let's look at some of your questions. I need to blow off some steam and rant a little, and this site is currently my only resource for this. I think my life would have been so much better had christianity not reared its filthy head. I have absolutely no one at all in person who shares my views even remotely. No true friends that stood beside me through my deconversion. I hate the fact that I have to hide how I feel from everyone around me in order to avoid (reverse) persecution and excommunication. I hate the fact that I cannot talk with my parents openly about my feelings and that they feel sorry for me. I hate the fact that all my friends are/were christians. As others have said, you're not alone in this. Not even in having no one to talk to. I went on the internet to find a local group of freethinkers and humanists. If you don't know where to start, you can click on my signature. There's gotta be something in your area--well, unless you live in Antartica or some remote dog-sled town....I think you mentioned driving a motor vehicle. If you can drive and have access to the internet and a vehicle, you should be able to find someone to link up with. I feel robbed of so much. I have no friends anymore; I am insecure; I am hateful and unhappy and not fun to be around; I am bitter and cynical. Most of all, I feel robbed of my goals in life. As I was raised to be a christian from an early and naive age, my goals until I became an atheist were "to glorify god." Now, I have no real goals. I mean, I am great with computers, and I've gotten enjoyment from learning Linux and how to program, etc., but who cares? It sounds like YOU care. Throw out everything you've learned about being unselfish and focus entirely on what makes YOU happy. Then set out to make it happen. The rule is you can do anything you want so long as it doesn't hurt yourself or anyone else. Ideas about losing out in the afterlife don't count. I do NOT want to be a pansy, uneducated missionary. Nor do we exChristians want you to become one. Furthermore, being in a christian society, I believe, has facilitated weakness in me. Too much reward (e.g. "Oh, it's ok"; too much "respect"; to passive) and not enough punishment makes people unable to do well in society, and it makes them pansies. It takes real-world punishment for people to learn to survive well. Now that I am older and full-grown, my neurological makeup is set, and it would be very hard to change (i.e. to become secure, happy, goal-oriented). There's probably nothing as difficult as getting rid of the religion one was indoctrinated with as a young child. Thus, if you could deconvert at your age you can probably do anything else you want to do. I have to go to a fucking bible class every other goddamned day of the fucking week. Every morning when I drive to class, my anger builds. Each time I repeat to myself the reasons why I hate these people and their ideas. Eventually you'll want to stop focusing on the hatred lest you burn out. I'm studying theology. The more I know about what fundamentalists believe and why, the better I am equipped to fight them. I need to know far more than just the stuff they preach in church; I need to know all the history and philosophy behind what they preach in church. Two thousand years of thought, debate, and questioning has gone into this religion. Decisions were made thousands of years ago that affect what is preached and practiced today. Many fundies think history began with the advent of their home church. We need to know the theological links between the NT and what their preacher said in church on Sunday. Since we are in the minority we have to choose our battle carefully and strike strategically. And it's not just the school...it's (most of) the whole town. Every place I go--the coffee shop, the book store, school, even Walmart--I hear someone talking about Jesus or evolution or atheists, or I see people trying to sell some christian shit (e.g. some stupid christian sitting behind a table outside the entrance of Walmart, trying to make people feel guilty for not giving), or a billboard that says, "Where would you go if you died tonight?", or some stupid asshole holding up a sign at the courthouse that says "HEAVEN OR HELL". I HATE THIS...I hate having other peoples' dispositions forced on me. It is seriously enough to drive one insane. Absolutely! This will drive you insane if you don't get some tools to deal with it. One of Christianity's most powerful tools is guilt. Its twin is shame. Guilt for having committed sin. Shame for being unworthy. Roll the two into one and you get unworthy sinner. What do they force new converts to confess? "I am a sinner saved through the shed blood of Christ" or something to that effect. 1. Sin is intentionally doing that which we know is wrong. Comment: Who does that? Nobody that I know of. Some people do it out of rebellion or some other dysfunction. When we get rid of all the dysfunctions we get outstanding behaviour. In other words, humans are good deep down if only love can connect with that good. 2. With the belief that one is a sinner the stage is set for shame. COMMENT: This is where religion wants its members. They are vulnerable and easily manipulated. They will do anything to get rid of the guilt and shame, whether real or imagined. I hold that it is imagined. QUOTE: Shame is the uncomfortable or painful feeling that we experience when we realize that a part of us is defective, bad, incomplete, rotten, phoney, inadequate or a failure. In contrast to guilt, where we feel bad from doing something wrong, we feel shame from being something wrong or bad. Thus guilt seems to be correctible or forgiveable, whereas there seems to be no way out of shame. -Charles L. Whitfield in Healing the Child Within, 1987, p. 44. The most powerful anti-dote for the guilt-shame complex I know is to learn who one is and to learn to be happy with oneself. To find out who you are, start by figuring out your likes and dislikes, and by listing the pros and cons of these. Embrace the pros. I think you will grow into the kind of person you want to be, the kind of person the Bible tells us to be. And it will be relatively painless and fast. But don't try to be a good example; just try to be you. Jesus or evolution or atheists When you feel comfortable with who you are, it won't matter what the Christians think about any of these three topics. I believe that if Jesus were here today he would be an atheist too. He condemned organized religion. I'm not sure what your problem is with evolution other than perhaps you're just plain worn out with the crazy arguments against it. trying to make people feel guilty for not giving Can you think up some solid logical reason not to give? Don't tell anyone this reason but hold it close to your own heart as a shield to protect yourself next time someone wants to make you feel guilty. On the other hand, if it's a cause you believe it, I don't think it's wrong to give to the needy. I know a humanist who goes with the Christians to work with Habitat for Humanity because he believes in building homes for the needy. However, no one has the power to control your feelings (make you feel guilty or ashamed) unless you give it to them. The goal is to find tools to keep your feelings for yourself. "Where would you go if you died tonight?" ANSWER: Morgue. Next Step: Whatever they do with dead bodies. After that: Nowhere. I'll be dead and stay dead. I'm find with that. "HEAVEN OR HELL" Neither. See above. ***************** Okay, so I took you really seriously and tried giving you some tools to deal with things. But maybe all you wanted to do was rant. If so, feel free to ignore all the unsolicited advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MathGeek Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 Hey MathGeek! Is your twelfth-root-of-two avatar a reference to the tempered scale? Yes, it is. I chose it because it melds math and music. I may change it to something different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TheTruthHurts Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 About a thousand years ago, I did a high school physics project in which I calculated the standard tuning frequencies of the tempered scale and compared them to the pitch relationships in a non-tempered scale. I came up with a formula based on the 4:5:6 ratio of major chords and the 2:1 ration of octaves. It worked; it was right; it was a pretty complicated expression. A few months later, I took it out again and noticed that I hadn't finished simplifying it, and when I did, there was the twelfth root of two. Major head-slapping momemt -- what else could it have been when you multiply a value by x twelve times and wind up doubling the original value. I felt a little better when I told my college physics prof about that and he hadn't realized it either even though he was a big music fan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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