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Goodbye Jesus

Oops! Where Did That Come From?


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When I posted my testimony, Taking the Plunge, in early November, I stated that I was still attending church because I could not bring myself to hurt my mother. And, quite frankly, the thought of how she would react made me feel sick. (You would have to know her to fully understand how I could be so intimidated at my age!)

 

Just this past week, there was a new post in my testimony thread so it resurfaced and I reread my original post and all of subsequent posts and I admitted that mentally I was changing, but that I had not taken too many concrete steps to change my situation.

 

I had decided that I was going to meet with my father, who has never attended church, and talk to him about his beliefs and let him know that I was planning to “come out” to my mother. I really wanted to see where he stood and what his reaction would be. I’m not exactly sure why this seemed like the best plan, but it did. Maybe I was hoping that he would “side” with me.

 

For a variety of reasons, I was feeling extremely anxious today. Early this evening, I called my mom to set up dinner plans for their anniversary later this month. As I got ready to say goodbye, she said, “I WILL see you in church tomorrow, won’t I? It was actually more of a demand than a question. And, holy crap, without hesitation, I said, “You know mom, I am really having a problem with that.” Of course, she explained to me that was because satan was working in my life. Which led to me stating, I don’t believe in satan… which led to I don’t believe the bible… and of course, this path was bound to end in I don’t believe in god.

 

Three phone calls later, I am still dealing with the backlash, and believe me; I know she has not even warmed up at this point.

 

Emotionally, I am not up to sharing all of the gruesome details but I will say the worst thing she said to me was that she wished she had died in 2004 (she did actually die in surgery and they brought her back) so that she would have never known this.

 

Of course, as I expected she also told me she loves me and she always will. Finally, in an effort to stop her torrent of words, I told her that I would meet with her and explain to her in detail how I came to this conclusion. (She told me she had told my sister years ago that she thought I read too much and that she wished I would stick to just reading the bible!) Knowing my mother, I think it will be of great benefit for me to read through as many threads in the Lion’s Den as I can. It is going to be extremely difficult to get her to understand that all of her rebuttals hinge on belief in the bible.

 

I am totally drained at this point, but there is a bright side. I am NOT going to church tomorrow!!!!!!! :grin:

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Damn Satan worshipper!

 

I for one am glad you grew a pair and set off on the road to freedom. You respect her beliefs, she MUST respect yours! You'll be okay. So will she.

 

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

(I read that your god is exclamation points!)

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Actually, you don't owe her a damn explanation at all. It's YOUR life and she needs to ACCEPT that PERIOD.

 

Anything outside of her TOTAL acceptance (regardless of understanding) is manipulation and abuse. It's HER insecurity that's keeping the argument going, not yours.

 

I know you WANT to explain so, so, so, so, SOOOOO badly, but it won't do you a damn bit of good. Trying to figure out what to say will just stress yourself out more.

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Graphicsguy is right. There is no explaining anyway, so I'd tell her she just has to trust your judgment. You prayed, studied, thought and came to your conclusion. She won't understand anyway, so don't stress over "atheist apologetics."

 

!!!!!!!!!!!

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Thank you both for the responses. You are absolutely right! And, you made me laugh and feel so much better! I already know she is not going to hear or understand anything I say. I can tell that from the three conversations that I've already had with her.

 

I told her that I needed some time and space and I also got her to agree that she would not rally friends and family members to start pressuring me. Maybe that time I need will just be a very, very long time!!!!

 

Even though I didn't expect to tell her this way, I do feel a tremendous amount of relief!!!!!

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I've had a very similar experience with my mother. She expressed gladness that a beloved relative was dead (!!) so that she would never live to see me no longer be a Christian. I think it's really sick some of the ways that religion makes people think. Imagine wishing for/rejoicing in death rather than accepting someone having a different viewpoint on the outrageous miracle stories in the Bible. Honestly.

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I agree with the comments that basically say it's unlikely you'll be able to explain your position in a way that your Mum will be able to hear. It is very hard for anyone to accept that those they love might be headed to hell. Try and keep in mind the reasons that your Mum is full of panic.

 

I repsonse to her saying she wished she had died in 2004 I'd acknowledge this as an exampple of just how bad she is feeling and tell her that you are very glad that she didn't - because you love her. Explain to her that your love for her hasn't changed because you have different beliefs and that you respect her right to think differently and hope she will do the same.

 

Let her know that your core values haven't changed (many christians assume that giving up a belief will mean that you've gone over to the dark side and will worry that you'll no longer be kind to grannies and will start kicking the cat ... obviously don't word it that way!)

 

Three guiding points

 

1. have compassion for her and show it

2. remember that unlike your mum, you are not required by god, to pressure her to change

3. if you start to feel wound up, excuse yourself from the conversation and take a break. Her cognitive dissonance will be in full swing and is likely to make her react in aggressive and unpleasant ways.

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I am very sorry to hear about your accidental band-aid outing... how do we get ourselves into those situations? I told my parents two weeks ago, and it was tough. My mom cried for about 45 minutes and told my husband (still working as a youth pastor) that he ought to be fired as soon as they knew. Ouch. For us, though, the tempest seems to have passed and a relatively peaceful calm is settling. I've gone out of my way to make sure things are more normal than they normally are, lol.

 

My advice is to be the best exC daughter you can be. Don't be fake, but show her how much she really does mean to you. It's not sucking up or pandering, it's just helping her get through one of the most painful things she could imagine without sacrificing the potential for your future relationship. From her side, you've just told her that you're willingly going to eternal torment... a person who fully believes that is going to be angry and hurt in the same way that the family of someone who commits suicide would be hurt. No amount of explaining will change her mind, but it might to worlds of good to show her that you still value your relationship. I agree, don't stress the apologetics. They'll only remind her of the issue and everything between you. Find the middle ground and stay there. What you have pondered over for a very long time, she had to accept in minutes. The shock and grieving will wear off, but what you do right now can affect your relationship for the rest of your lives. Of course, if it's been a few months and she's still ranting, then compassion goes out the window and you can happily tell her to bugger off.

 

But, now it's out there. Just think, you can never say anything worse than what you've already said!

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Just think, you can never say anything worse than what you've already said!

 

She could say that she's gay...

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and of course, this path was bound to end in I don’t believe in god.

Ah...the time honored tradition of blurting things out on the phone. I've been there. Was in a fight with my wife and my mom called. My wife said something about telling (daring me really) my mom so I say "I don't believe in god anymore" (or something to that effect) and suddenly there's dead silence then crying and all I'm thinking is 'Awww fuck!" That wasn't what I wanted to say or do at that moment but I was pissed off and my wife used it against me very well. My "coming out" was very crappy. My wife seemed to enjoy it. My mom cried that I was going to hell and all sorts of things and I felt like crap because I made her feel bad (not because of the stupid religion but because I don't want to make my mom feel like crap).

 

It took weeks, if not months, to clean up that mess. I don't know if she's totally over it but we don't talk about it anymore. We do talk religion but on a more "scholarly" level which she does seem to enjoy actually (no one else talks to her on that subject in that way so it's nice to just talk about these things without "magic" getting in the way and insulting everyone's intelligence). I refused to go talk to a priest and all that even though she really was very insistent. I said I was "too angry" and didn't want it to reflect badly on her so I would consider it later (I was angry at the time but not about that and it wasn't really a lie since I did consider it later and decided against it). She's aware that I've declared myself an atheist but whether or not she's accepted it is another thing altogether. I really don't know. If she hasn't that's not my problem. I don't go out of my way to put it in her face but I don't go out of my way to hide it either.

 

mwc

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I also blurted it out on the phone to my Dad. Not only do I not believe it anymore but I'm pretty angry for being taught that shit all my life! He and my stepmother said they were going to pray that god would reveal himself to me no matter what it took. That I would see it real soon. That was last year and so far no lightning strikes! Now when they call they pretend it was never said. They still say they are praying for me and I just say thanks. My Dad is 80 y/o so whats the point. It's the "no matter what it takes" that bothers me. They would rather see me writhing in pain calling out to god than say he's not real. Oh the love of jesus! <_<

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I know you WANT to explain so, so, so, so, SOOOOO badly, but it won't do you a damn bit of good. Trying to figure out what to say will just stress yourself out more.

 

I have to agree. Fundamentalist Christians will never, ever understand life from our perspective. If they did, they would deconvert.

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Well, congrats on telling her, even if it wasn't the best timing. But I think you should remember, that it could be very emotionally draining having to constantly field calls and meeting with your mother if she is going to act like that. At some point you may have to say, "Mom, I love you but I will not tolerate the constant verbal lashings" and then give her time to cool off. It is unhealthy for both of you and your relationship to have to go through all that.

 

Best of luck!

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I know you WANT to explain so, so, so, so, SOOOOO badly, but it won't do you a damn bit of good. Trying to figure out what to say will just stress yourself out more.

 

I went to sleep thinking about this last night. I felt like you knew me because you are right - I so, so, so, so. SOOOOOO badly want her to understand. But alas, both you and Amethyst are absolutely correct.

 

I have to agree. Fundamentalist Christians will never, ever understand life from our perspective. If they did, they would deconvert.

She will never, ever understand. Thank you for helping me realize that before I agonized over what to say!

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Graphicsguy is right. There is no explaining anyway, so I'd tell her she just has to trust your judgment. You prayed, studied, thought and came to your conclusion. She won't understand anyway, so don't stress over "atheist apologetics."

 

!!!!!!!!!!!

You are soooooo correct!!!!!!!!!!!! Thanks.

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I think it's really sick some of the ways that religion makes people think. Imagine wishing for/rejoicing in death rather than accepting someone having a different viewpoint on the outrageous miracle stories in the Bible. Honestly.

Ouch! At least my mother was talking about her own death. But you're right, the whole idea is totally twisted!

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Prysm, after reading your testimony, I wondered how you and husband were doing and how you were dealing with your situation. At least my job is not impacted by this! I'm sorry to hear that your experience telling your mom was so difficult but this gives me hope!

 

For us, though, the tempest seems to have passed and a relatively peaceful calm is settling. I've gone out of my way to make sure things are more normal than they normally are, lol.
My advice is to be the best exC daughter you can be. Don't be fake, but show her how much she really does mean to you.

One of the things that made this tough for me is that my mom loves to see me on Sunday mornings. Before I told her, I had decided that once I stopped attending church, I would have to make a real effort to go see my parents on a more regular basis. Which actually works out a lot better because that way I get to see both of them, not just one.

 

And... I will keep this in mind! :) Thank you!!!

 

Of course, if it's been a few months and she's still ranting, then compassion goes out the window and you can happily tell her to bugger off.
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Three guiding points

 

1. have compassion for her and show it

2. remember that unlike your mum, you are not required by god, to pressure her to change

3. if you start to feel wound up, excuse yourself from the conversation and take a break. Her cognitive dissonance will be in full swing and is likely to make her react in aggressive and unpleasant ways.

 

Alice, thank you so much for your thoughtful answer. I am going to print your guiding points and keep them handy when I am interacting with her!

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Ouch! That does sound painful!! I'm sorry you had to go through it that way. Hopefully, you felt relieved once it was out there. I know I do. And, now I need to internalize this:

She's aware that I've declared myself an atheist but whether or not she's accepted it is another thing altogether. I really don't know. If she hasn't that's not my problem. I don't go out of my way to put it in her face but I don't go out of my way to hide it either.

 

Thank you.

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It's the "no matter what it takes" that bothers me. They would rather see me writhing in pain calling out to god than say he's not real. Oh the love of jesus! <_<

 

Well, I'm glad the "no matter what it takes" has not come to pass! I'm very encouraged! Thank you.

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Good for you, dear! :D

 

Thank you!!! :D

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At some point you may have to say, "Mom, I love you but I will not tolerate the constant verbal lashings" and then give her time to cool off. It is unhealthy for both of you and your relationship to have to go through all that.

 

Trike, I am hearing this loud and clear from many of you. Hmmmm... I think perhaps the masses may be right! Thank you!!

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I went to sleep thinking about this last night. I felt like you knew me because you are right - I so, so, so, so. SOOOOOO badly want her to understand. But alas, both you and Amethyst are absolutely correct.

 

I don't know YOU, but I absolutely understand the characteristics of the situation.

 

Thankfully I have been granted very understanding parents (my mother moreso than my father, but I digress), but my wife (now ex) was/is EXACTLY like your mother. The fact of the matter is that my wife basically mothered and controlled me throughout our 9 year marriage. Completely manipulative and abusive because life HAS to be HER way. It had to fit within her constraints or she fell out of control.

 

Maybe you can relate to that with your own mother. I wouldn't be surprised. I've learned that it's somewhat common. I've even had issues with my own grandmother lately because I've been learning that SHE is the reason why my dad's side of the family is so fucked up. It's taken them up to their 50s to finally be able to stand up to her in any fashion at all.

 

My coming out to my wife was almost spot on to yours with your mother.

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Well, Noob, my husband and I are going to tell his boss that we are atheists in about... 3 1/2 hours. I'm nearly in a cold sweat already. Maybe tomorrow you'll be giving us advice on a new thread! Haha... I'm totally freaked out. I keep thinking of Willie Wonka and the Chocolate Factory: "Eyes on the prize, Violet!" For you, it seems like the prize is a peaceful relationship between you and your mom. Don't let her goad you into a reaction you regret. Remember, she might have eternity, but you only have one life with her. You seem to have a great personality, so let that win her. You can never argue anyone away from a position. In fact, it's one of the psychological elements of indoctrination. The more someone defends a position, the more they will become entrenched in it, even if it wasn't important to them in the first place. Make sure that whatever you do, it is what you are choosing, not a reaction. If the time comes to put an end to an element of your relationship, only take that step calmly and rationally, not in the heat of a debate.

 

You'll do great.

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