Leaving Jesus is not Leaving God!

[Guest Epistalotus]

I'm sure that the message that Jesus really taught was the same as

all the other Prophets. Don't let the Christians confuse you about what

Jesus was! Jesus was not God! How they could believe this is beyond me.

What Jesus WAS: A teacher, healer, magician, and all-around Nice guy.

So, even though I'm not a Christian, I still respect Jesus, and surely

the message he taught was nothing as the Church says it was.

 

The message of Jesus, Muhammad, Moses, Abraham, The Sikh Guru,

and countless others was all the same:

 

There is One God.

 

Anyway, this was the point of the post:

http://www.messages.co.nr

 

How can one say there is no God?

Simply look at the sky, or the grass, or the trees.

Surely you will see God's Shine.

(Messages Six:1)

[Amethyst]

Um...why is this in creative works?

[Guest Epistalotus]

Um...why is this in creative works?

 

Um...because of the link.

[Amethyst]

I went to the link. Here is a clip, for people who are too lazy to click on it.

 

One

1. Life is the Gift given us by the One God so that we may experience God's Glory, and accept our need

to return to the God.

2. The only requirement to return to God is the Belief, Subservience, and Love of the One and Only God.

3. Our God is the God of the Muslims, Jews, Christians, Sikh, and even those who know God not.

4. Religion has been twisted, corrupted, polluted, maimed, and built upon in ways unrelated to God's

Message.

5. God's Message has been revealed to many Prophets(pbut) through the ages, and the Message was

the same, but has become clouded by tampering and misinterpretation.

6. The Muslims believe that Muhammad(pbuh) was the last Messenger of humankind; why would God stop

guiding us?

7. Each of the monotheistic religions have the same Core Message. It is this which they have correct.

8. Yet each says this or that is required to gain God's Love. Surely having God in your heart for one

hour is greater than a lifetime of blind rituals, prayers at certain times, and not Living your Worship!

9. There is no entirely correct religion. God has said to us that only Knowing and Serving him will

guarantee us Bliss in time to come.

10. God is Greatest. We must serve The One who will Always be Greater; you shall not serve nor Worship

any man. God Created us all alike; there is none better. Only God is Better.

 

Two

1. Religion has told us to 'Fear God'. I ask, what is the need of this? Surely God Knows us even better

than we know ourselves. Anything that can happen to us, it must be the Will of God. Fear God not,

but Trust God!

2. God is incomprehensible, yet we may Know God.

3. God is our Creator and Sustainer. We must know that within God, there is no death. We are parts

of our Eternal Creator; how can the Eternal die?

4. Therefore, our mortal death is merely a transition. Indeed, it is a time for Celebration, for we

are taken Closer to The!

5. The Prophets(pbut) have brought us new Faiths, and we should respect them all. If you are not

a Christian, you may still respect and contemplate Jesus'(pbuh) True Message. If you are not

a Muslim, you may still respect and contemplate Mohammad's(pbuh) Message. If you are not

a Sikh, you may still respect and contemplate the Message of the Guru(pbut).

6. Religion leads the masses to believe that the Reality of God is more complex than it needs to be.

7. All the Messengers(pbut) told us one thing in common: Know, Love, and Serve the Only God.

8. More than this, they teach of the equality of all human beings, the necessity of helping and

loving others, and of keeping God in our hearts at all times.

9. No Great Book is greater than any other. Indeed, they must all be studied to understand what

God has been telling us since the Beginning. Worry not, for God shall guide you. All will come

to you when you are ready.

10. God requires only Knowing and Serving God.

 

It goes on from there.

 

I will admit that this is all fiction, but er...not very creative fiction at that. Sounds like preaching to me.

[Zach]

The Lion's Den is designated for Christian topics. Moving there now.

[Vixentrox]

Yep, smells like just another religion.

[Guest Epistalotus]

Sorry, wasn't aware of where it would go.

[Caretaker]

Sorry, wasn't aware of where it would go.

Nobody's perfect....

[Taphophilia]

Epistalotus,

 

Are you new in your deconversion? Lots of people who recently deconvert still believe in God but no longer subscribe to Jesus or Christianity. It is a stage of deconvertion. If you are new to your deconversion your beliefs will ultimately change and evolve in time.

 

Stick with us and think for yourself and be open minded in what you read here.

 

We should really have a thread of the stages of deconversion and beliefs.

 

Taph

[Open_Minded]

I'm sure that the message that Jesus really taught was the same as

all the other Prophets. ...

The message of Jesus, Muhammad, Moses, Abraham, The Sikh Guru,

and countless others was all the same:

 

There is One God.

 

Epistalotus

 

You may want to check out the following website if you are interested in commonalities between the World Religions.

 

World Scripture: A Comparative Anthology of Sacred Texts

http://www.unification.net/ws/

 

You are correct in your observation that the world religions share the same foundation.

[Antlerman]

Sorry, wasn't aware of where it would go.

Nobody's perfect....

Especially God. That's why everyone like the above poster is constantly trying to redefine him, so he looks less flawed. But what do you expect, we made him, and we still are.

[Mr. Neil]

Leaving Jesus is not Leaving God!

Precisely why I have two completely different arguments for them.

[Antlerman]

Epistalotus

 

You may want to check out the following website if you are interested in commonalities between the World Religions.

 

World Scripture: A Comparative Anthology of Sacred Texts

http://www.unification.net/ws/

 

You are correct in your observation that the world religions share the same foundation.

Ok, I gave it a quick glance hoping to see something new. Here's what I found as the beginning to build this consoldated new faith on:

 

How can human beings recognize the existence of this transcendent Reality, the invisible God, all-pervasive Truth? Although the vast philosophical literature dealing with proofs for God's existence is beyond the scope of this anthology, there are certain arguments which are put forth in scripture. Although God is invisible, He has left evidence of His reality by which people can know Him, if they only look. These include: first, the doorway of contemplation by which God is sensed by the inner self; second, the universality of the moral law, which mirrors the law of nature; third, the evidence of His handiwork in the glories of the creation; and finally, the testimony of the founders of religion. By these means traces of Ultimate Reality can be ascertained in the midst of this relative existence.

 

Ok, addressing their premise that if people only look for God they will find him. Same approach holds true for anything you want to find. Not proof God, but proof of humans seeing what they want to believe. Point 1: God is found through inner contemplation in which God is sensed. Or this could be another trait of human physiology, like getting dizzy through hyperventalition. Atheist religions practice this and at the end they find something they do not call God; Point 2: The universiality of moral law? No such thing. Only in the minds of those looking for evidence of God. Point 3: Glories of creation - like death and dismemberment? Pain and suffering. miscarriages, two left feet, shall we go on? How about choking to death by putting food into the same hole God created for us to breath through??? Point 4: The testimony of the founders of religion? Whoa, you mean the ones that are in their own handwritting? You mean, those people who promised things that never happened? Those people who many of which were likely never even real? All in all I think there no case to go further invistegating more.

 

Note: I'm really not entierely as cynical as this, but I want to make a point that they're being just a tad overly idealistic, and unrealistic. It's just another religion with a new product to sell to this generations of consumers.

[white_raven23]

You are sooooo close! Bet I could explain this concept without your head frying (it happens)!

 

Wrap your mind around this for a sec.......

 

Since all these guys said pretty much the same thing about god (if they existed at all....but that really isn't the point).......that makes all of them on equal "footing", and not a one of them more special or correct than any of the others.

 

The major world religions pretty much have one thing in common. They all believe god wrote a book, and that their path is the one true path and everyone else is wrong (Mythra....can you telll what I've been reading?).

 

Religion segregates people. Divides them. In truth, encourages us to hate our neighbor rather than love them.

 

Since it is religion that causes the problems (think about it), and has proven contradictory, it is religion that ought to go.

 

Doesn't mean you have to let go of god though.

 

You have said that leaving Jesus doesn't mean leaving God.

 

I propose you take the next step.......leaving religion doesn't mean you have left god.

 

A lot of christians cannot seperate those concepts at all. When I have said: "I don't believe in religion." They HAVE replied with: "So you are an atheist then."

 

I look at them as though they are grossly ignorant, which I think they are.....leaping all the way to atheism like that is like congratulating someone on their impending marriage to they guy or girl they just had a first date with.

[Open_Minded]

Ok, addressing their premise that if people only look for God they will find him. Same approach holds true for anything you want to find. Not proof God, but proof of humans seeing what they want to believe....

 

Such as believing there is no god

 

You want to believe there is no God that is exactly what you will find. NOTHING - NO GOD WHATSOEVER.

 

Proof of God's non-existence holds no more water than proof of God's existence. And please do not think I'm challenging you in a duel here... I don't believe in the literal bible god any more than you do.

 

Just pointing out that you absolutely correct, we find what we want to find.

 

Note: I'm really not entierely as cynical as this, but I want to make a point that they're being just a tad overly idealistic, and unrealistic. It's just another religion with a new product to sell to this generations of consumers.

 

I hope not

 

I hope you can find wonder somewhere in your life, maybe in science, maybe in nature

 

When I suggested checking out World Scripture I did not suggest converting, I did not suggest that it was the end all and be all, that it had all the answers, etc....

 

I merely suggested it as a resource.

[Guest Epistalotus]

Epistalotus,

 

Are you new in your deconversion? Lots of people who recently deconvert still believe in God but no longer subscribe to Jesus or Christianity. It is a stage of deconvertion. If you are new to your deconversion your beliefs will ultimately change and evolve in time.

 

Stick with us and think for yourself and be open minded in what you read here.

 

We should really have a thread of the stages of deconversion and beliefs.

 

Taph

 

hehe, no, I haven't been a Christian for a very, very long time. :/

I went from religion to religion, trying to find a 'home', I was a Satanist

for some time, then a general pagan. I don't dispute anyone's claims,

everyone believes what they're supposed to believe at that time.

And I don't consider my belief to be the only or right one. It's just

one belief.

 

But I know that I feel God again, and this makes me happy, so

I stick with it

 

Oh, and also, I AM without religion, as religion has lost the way.

I am simply with my Unseen Friend

[Poonis]

The message of Jesus, Muhammad, Moses, Abraham, The Sikh Guru,

and countless others was all the same:

 

There is One God.

 

Oh really? Show me any god; then I will be convinced.

[Cerise]

Why can't there be two Gods?

 

Or sixty?

 

Or a trillion?

[mwc]

Why can't there be two Gods?

 

Or sixty?

 

Or a trillion?

Oh, there could be...but they're still all one.

 

mwc

[Asimov]

The message of Jesus, Muhammad, Moses, Abraham, The Sikh Guru,

and countless others was all the same:

 

There is One God.

 

Oh really? Show me any god; then I will be convinced.

 

 

Just look around you Poonis! Don't the trees CRY out a creator?? Doesn't the UNIVERSE itself DEMAND a God???

[pandora]

Is this a Baha'i' evangelist?

[Mr. Neil]

Just look around you Poonis! Don't the trees CRY out a creator?? Doesn't the UNIVERSE itself DEMAND a God???

By that argument, doesn't God demand a God?

[Amethyst]

Ah, I see this got moved.

 

It doesn't matter to me if people want to be deists or theists or new agers or whatever, but please stop trying to sell religion to me. It's a flawed product. Not to mention, the industry of religion has yet to come up with any proof that its product -- god -- even exists.

 

Now granted, I realize you can't prove beyond a reasonable doubt that god doesn't exist (which is why I'm agnostic, not atheist), but I'm not going to bow down and worship something that I can't even see just in case it's there, or just in case there is some sort of afterlife.

 

I figure if there is anything remotely divine, it won't care if we worship it or not. It won't care if we sell it or not. And it would be intelligent enough not to torture people for not buying into the product of religion.

[Cerise]

Why can't there be two Gods?

 

Or sixty?

 

Or a trillion?

Oh, there could be...but they're still all one.

 

mwc

 

Oh the logic! The logic! ::head explodes::

 

The gods are all one. Except when one has to go for pizza, and then they are two.

 

I think I'm a clone now. There's always two of me just a-hanging around.

I think I'm a clone now. And I can stay at home while I'm out of town.

- Weird Al

[Taphophilia]

 

Just look around you Poonis! Don't the trees CRY out a creator?? Doesn't the UNIVERSE itself DEMAND a God???

 

 

Isn't this why trees and plants grow up to the sky as though they are lifting their limbs in praise to the Creator, the big invisible daddy in the sky?