"Journal" of my outing.

[fallenleaf]

Okay, I have edited this down to mainly include my posts. This is not because I did not get wonderful advice and encouragement from people on the board but is rather a choice to reduce space and give it more of a "journal" feel. This may make some of the comments a little hard to follow -- if I happen to respond to someone but not mention what I am responding to. I am going to try and avoid editing the actual posts themselves because I'll end up editing more out than should be. I have made one simple edit to one post... but it doesn't affect the content at all.

 

I will add bold formatting to highlight some of the areas to give an idea of the religious crap I dealt with growing up.

 

I'll add a little history to explain some things which may have been common knowledge at the time but would not be known to this new version of the board. When I was 21, I tried to tell my mother for the first time. The result was two weeks of hell where my entire family constantly put pressure on me to recant my stance (which I had never gotten the chance to state... I got as far as saying I didn't see God the same way they did and never got another word in edgewise). This was finished off with a trip to a religious "camp ground" where not only could they put pressure on me but they would have the help of hundreds of others to constantly push their message. It was a time of extreme stress for me, where I wasn't eating and slept very little. In the end I was an emotional wreck and bawled like a baby for hours (which they mistook for reconversion but was more an example of how far I had been stretched). I guess it could be said to have been the pre-school version of your [Purple Rhino's] "anti-gay" house deal.

 

That event, all the emotions and memories, played very heavily in my mind during this time. Although I do not mention it, I was tempted to just get in my car and go... anywhere... to avoid the possibility of the same thing happening again. Having this board here prevented that because I figured I would at least have an ear to hear my view this time.

 

I Have Been Outed., At least for my immediate family.

 

Well, it happened a few hours ago. After a decade of keeping it under wraps my mother found my extensive collection of books on everything religious. Major freak-out (she called me at work and nearly gave me a nervous breakdown).  Screaming, arguments etc. over the work phone while I am trying to defend myself and check people in at the same time. I was pretty worthless for the next 40 minutes before my replacement showed up. I made more mistakes in that short amount of time than I have in the last two months of working.

 

I wondered if I would even have a house to move back into today. When I got home she had calmed down. She didn't find anything else (how the hell I don't know) and was just trying to deal with it. She didn't say much just that the bible says her children will turn against her.

 

I don't know... right now I just want to sleep but when I wake up I might be moving out. I have a few places I can go... ranging from good to the back of my Volkswagon bus. But I have options...

 

man... this is bad... real bad. I will try and talk to you whenever I get the chance...

Right now she is taking it very well. After the initial two hours freak-out things have got quiet... too quiet. Like I said, I am still at home. I don't know what is going on. Probably why I can't sleep... stress keeping me awake. I just don't know what is coming next. It could be anything.

 

Living in a van down by the river... :hmmm: That doesn't sound half bad right now. But I have other options. I have three houses that are within 20 minutes drive and one of them will open their doors to me. I am just now starting my spring break so I can jet off to Melbourne till Thursday... I have tons of people who will do whatever they can to help me there. And if I don't want to put up with any of it... I can mope around in my van for a couple days. Right now I am so fucking confused I don't know what to do.

Okay, first let me reply to everyone one... I hope I don't miss anyone because you have all given good advice -- if I don't mention you specifically your advice was appreciated.

 

Dave, I am the oldest child. My two sisters are younger than me. As the oldest I was always under the extra stress of being the good example to my sisters. So you did guess right.

 

reach, That verse you gave is one of the first things I mentioned to my mom. I was also careful to stress the fact that nothing she did or didn't do would have changed me; everything was internally motivated. She takes comfort in that and one of the verses in the New Testiment about your children turning against you (sorry I don't remember the exact reference right now). Even though I hadn't seen it till just a few minutes ago your advice was perfect.

 

bob, I have been doing my best to be gentle and patient with my mother. She really doesn't want to talk about it at all.

 

vugizoview, Not a chance she will read the books. She claims the presence of them in the house was what has been hindering her walk and will not allow them back in. The best I can do is keep them in my car. She doesn't want to talk about the ideas in them or even really want to know what her son believes. She insists I am New Age (which I am not -- nothing against that though) and is just freaking out.

 

fweethawt, I really just woke up after sleeping for 12 hours. I crash like that after working my weekend which is a period of shifts ranging from 10-18hours long.  She really didn't talk to me before running out the door for school today (she teaches). I don't know what is going on really.

 

Well, I hope this covers everything.

Oddly enough she removed all of the books that are only tangent to my beliefs.  She removed a book of poems but left my Principia Discordia. She removed my Buddhist bible but left Zen Without Zen Masters. There are six or seven books still up there that contain the majority of my religious instruction. I will probably remove them myself just so she doesn't have access to them if she get in a book burning mood. And to make it even funnier -- all the books in my shelves are catagorized (roughly) by topic so all the books in any way religious were on the same shelf.

 

I had a rather large collection of books ranging from Hinduism through Buddhism through Tantric meditation through New Age. A rather large collection because I am a bookaholic and read constantly.

 

Who knows if her walk will increase. I hope it does, honestly. Because if she still has problems with it, I am sure it will be because I am full of spirits and still living in her house. So I will be out on the streets.

Okay,

 

I talked with the older of my two sisters today. She is taking it rather well and actually apologized for bringing the books to my mom's attention. My mom threw her out of the house about a year ago because she refused to agree with her. So my sister sympathizes a lot. Can you all see why I was worried (still am) about having no place to stay? The problem is that, although my sister still claims to be a Christian, she has only gotten worse in my mom's view. So my mom might be afraid throwing me out will just remove any positive influence she would otherwise have had. And maybe she knows that if she cuts off all her children she is just going to end up alone.

 

So far she has not tried to reconvert me and I think she is afraid to try. She keeps telling me that her beliefs won't be changing. I think maybe this weakened her faith a little and she is afraid I am out to destroy it. I am pretty sure that she isn't trying to reconvert me because she can clearly see the only possible change would be on her side. She couldn't argue apologetics with me for any period of time and knows that I have a broad base of knowledge on other faiths to challenge her with. It is funny but now that the deception has dropped I think she has found me more strongly armed than she imagined.

 

I suspect that eventually she will find a pastor or someone who is well versed and willing to talk to me. I have dealt with that before and it sucks but isn't the end of the world. I know this is only the start but it isn't as bad as last time. Of course, last time I was out of my element (not even in my home state), surrounded by family that supported my mother and rode me, and eventually dragged to a Christian camp for a week. So the pressure to start the lie up again just isn't there.

 

Well, only time will tell.

I live at home right now because it helps me cover the bills. I really don't want to work full time and go to school -- which I am currently doing. But right now I am saving up money so I can have fun once in a while. If I really wanted I could quit the job and do without some fun. But if I live on my own I cannot quit the job and I doubt I would have the money to have fun once in a while. Living at home isn't that bad.

 

My mom has backed off in a major way! I went away for spring break and while there I got a phone call. My mom asked if I was expecting a book in the mail. I said I was. She told me it came and asked, "Is this a book I want to know about?" I honestly responded, "No, you don't want to know about it." She said that is what she expected and that is why she refused to open it. She just threw it on my bed. She is giving me all the privacy I desire. Sure there are still things I will keep hidden extra well in case she is looking for something of her's in my room but she isn't out to find things right now.

 

In a way this is better than I could have ever hoped. Sure, she still refuses to actually discuss what it is I believe but she also has accepted that she cannot change it. She knows that I don't make frivolous decisions and that if I insist that something is one way there is very little she can do to change that.

 

So, living at home is a reasonable option still. I wouldn't cut off contact with my mom because there is nothing I am worried about. It is not like she could do something to screw with my head and she has ceased all religious conversion attempts with me. Like I said earlier... she knows that all is fair and if she attempts to convert me I will tear apart enough of her arguments to risk deconverting her. She couldn't get me to the movie {Comment added: The Passion is the movie I talk about here}when she thought I was saved because she knows I don't like seeing violence -- she respects that.

 

Also, I am the sole vegetarian in the house (I eat mostly organic food also) so I pay for all the food I eat. I pay a small amount of money to cover the utilities I use and help her with some of her bills. So, although she could try and claim that she knows it isn't really true. I help her out a lot and, even though she would be fine without me, she doesn't want me to leave.

It still is going fairly well. She did give me this sappy Easter card with a note about how Jesus loves me and wants me back. Or something like that. Blah, blah, blah... truth be revealed to you. Etc. I let it slide because it was Easter and I completely expected it.

 

Other than that she hasn't really said a word. She still doesn't want to discuss the religion at all.

lol, as much as I would like my mother to see my side of things -- just to help her feel better about herself -- I have no desire to actually explain my beliefs to her. She has made it clear that she doesn't want to talk about religion, which means she doesn't want to talk about the faults in Christianity. I believe that faith is a very personal issue and that each person has the right to follow the path that they want. I don't think my mom's choice is leading her to optimal happiness but that is not my responsibility.  My mom makes it clear that she doesn't want to know about any other faiths even though I never bring up religion to her. The few times I have said anything at all were times that she instigated the conversation. And even then, I didn't say anything too damaging.

 

pitchu, yes I am aware of all those things. It is one of the reasons I kept it secret for so long. Because I didn't want to cause those feelings in my mother.  Obviously it is stupid for her to cry because I am not going to one place that doesn't exist and am headed to another place that doesn't exist. But I can see it from her point of view and heaven and hell are very real to her. At least as real as most of the world is to me (since I have not been around the world too much right now). She is as sure that heaven is real as I am that France exists.  Logic and reason be damned that is her reality tunnel.

 

 

Uhm, I might add more comments later. I might as well give you an update. She still wants me to go to church with her... she is trying to make me go on Wednesday this week. I plan on avoiding it if possible. But I'll go to keep the peace. She still refuses to talk about it... I have told her like 6 times how my views align according to world religions (I use the term Buddhist although I don't necessarily adopt the title completely... as I practice an odd westernized zen version of it) but she still refuses to acknowledge it. She says I am Muslim or Hindu or New Age... whatever her term of contempt (and make no mistake... it is a deragatory term for her) happens to be at the moment.

 

-Eric

[Purple Rhino]

Eric,

 

Thanks for re-posting this. I see much of my mother in your writing about yours. And also have an empathy for her and her 'reality tunnel'.

 

I think there is a certain psyche that shows up in the oldest child, (especially oldest son in most cultures) that brings with it a type of responsibility gene. A certain drive for peace and leadership within the family unit. I know for me even after all of these years and bullshit that has happened I still feel like the 1st son/big brother.

 

And the panic that rushes in when they have found something that you had hidden... to protect them and yourself. That is something I still work on throughout my life. I have a need to be home when my partner or the kids arrive. I can have a panic attack walking into my own home if someone is waiting for me. Even with nothing to hide.

 

Keeping the peace is a hard pill to swallow at times, I'm glad that you have found a safe place here to decompress and find support.

 

Thanks again for opening a window into your life and who you are. I'm not sure I can offer much advice that you haven't already gotten or self-realized, but I'm always willing to listen.

 

PR

[fallenleaf]

I was recently asked if I could provide an update to this. As it is depressing and there might be a light at the end of the tunnel. It's over three years since I posted that original thread regarding my outing.

 

Some things have changed. My mother is still the same in most respects. Just hours ago she was trying to get me to go to her church tomorrow. But I no longer live with her so she doesn't have much of a say these days. A while after I was forced out... the hurricane season of 2004 hit Florida. My father lives near me in Florida but I didn't know too much about him regarding religion since my parents had divorced years before and my mother made him swear to not talk religion with us. He was out clearing some downed trees after the storms when he felt a sharp pain in his gut. My father assumed he had pulled something.

 

The day progressed and the pain got worse. The next day it was even worse and eventually he collapsed and was rushed to the emergency room. His appendix had ruptured. His entire abdomen was filled with a raging infection and it looked like he was pregnant when they went in. His liver was close to failing as were many of his organs. He survived the surgery but was still very ill. Over the next couple of days his health was up and down... and eventually deteriorated. He ended up in intensive care and extremely close to death. At one point the surgeon said he had about a 20% chance to live. Most importantly, my father and I were able to talk. And, since we both knew how close he was to dying and we don't skirt the issues, death was a prime topic. In short order, it became apparent that we had similar beliefs. He had deconverted at roughly the same time as I had but 1200 miles away. During the time he was there, we got to know each other and had some fun with the staff and priests who came to make sure he was ready to die. Oh the stories I could tell.

 

After that, my friends found out. Some of them were very cool about it... others avoid me to this day. But the ones who left don't matter, not in the long run. So my friends are better now.

 

In most respects, my family is the same. Except for my father... who I have found more in common with. My friends are usually informed... if not accepting. And the only place where I can say most people don't know is where I work. And that will change in the future... not the near future... but eventually.

[Japedo]

 

Fallen,

 

I admire your ability to be able to handle things such as you have. Even when faced with such dark moments. I'm so happy to hear you have found a new bond with your father.

Thanks so much for the update.