Spare the Rod, Spare the Child

[Open_Minded]

Hello Chris:

 

Over and over again in these threads you have said:

 

http://www.ex-christian.net/index.php?s=&s...ndpost&p=152002

God's Ten Commandments are written upon your heart. That's why you know it is wrong to steal, hate, lust, covet, lie, etc. You /know/ it's wrong! You'll have to face God whether you believe Him or not.

 

http://www.ex-christian.net/index.php?s=&s...ndpost&p=151158

You *know* it's wrong to purposely decieve someone for selfish reasons (lie).

You *know* it's wrong to lust.

You *know* it's wrong to hate.

You *know* it's wrong to steal.

You *know* that if there's a creator you should not blaspheme His name.

You *know* that if there's a creator you should worship Him with all your heart/soul/mind/strength.

 

So, Mister Open-Minded Free Thinker, distrust your own motives. Play devil's advocate if you dare.

 

http://www.ex-christian.net/index.php?s=&s...ndpost&p=151327

You know it's wrong to steal, to hate, to lust. You know it's wrong, you do it anyway. The Law just gives you eyes to see your wicked moral condition.

 

Chris you keep telling us that we know certain things are wrong - and that convicts us. Well let's have a little discussion about this aspect of the human experience shall we?

 

1st.. I have challenged you to acknowledge something you know in your heart is wrong, Chris.

 

http://www.ex-christian.net/index.php?s=&s...ndpost&p=151475

 

(Chris de Vidal @ Mar 10 2006, 02:28 PM) We have a 4-month old. We've talked about this.

 

Feelings don't change truth. He doesn't feel like capable of mass-murder, but he is. He may be cute but so was Hitler as a baby, I'm sure.

 

It is my duty to present the gospel to him by living my life in a way that demonstrates what I believe and to make it clear to him like I am to you right now. And pray for him, that he turns from the wickedness he certainly will one day commit.

.......

 

You know it's wrong to steal, to hate, to lust. You know it's wrong, you do it anyway. The Law just gives you eyes to see your wicked moral condition.

------

 

Chris, when you were a boy, or a teen, or whenever ... and some adult was crushing your spirit with his/her words and actions. When they were striking at your soul with righteous anger - and convincing you that you were wicked - in your heart you KNEW it was wrong. You KNEW deep in your heart that their crushing words and actions were hatefilled and had nothing to do with love. YOU KNEW that ...

 

Your son deserves better than you got as a young boy or a teenager, Chris. He does. And you KNOW in your heart it's wrong to treat him the same way you were treated.

 

You were not born wicked, and whoever convinced you that you were was abusing you. DO NOT DO THE SAME THING TO YOUR SON, THAT WAS DONE TO YOU.

 

YOU LIVE UP TO WHAT YOU KNEW, CHRIS - YOU HAVE THAT RESPONSIBILITY. Your child deserves better than you were given - he does. And you KNOW it.

 

Just to remind you Chris - I will not stop challenging you on this. YOU KNOW YOUR SON DESERVES BETTER THAN YOU RECEIVED AS A CHILD. You need to respond to this challenge Chris ... because it won't go away.

 

But - beyond that challenge - I am fed up with you coming to this board and acting as if you are morally superior because you read the Bible literally. I KNOW a lot of things in my heart, Chris that you don't seem to have a grasp on.

 

For instance ... I KNOW:

1. That it is wrong to beat children
   
2. That it is wrong to convince children that they are worthless sinners - that they are wicked.
   
3. That it is wrong to convince children that they are not lovable in my eyes - or in the eyes of God.
   
4. That it is wrong to go into someone elses home and tell them that they are wicked, worthless sinners and that they will fry in hell
   

These are just a few things that I KNOW in my heart Chris. I am sincerely interested in hearing what other people on this board KNOW in their hearts.

 

And you know what, CHRIS, we don't need your sick minded theology to convince us of the things we KNOW are wrong. We know these things because we allow our hearts to feel compassion and love.

 

The floor is now open for discussion - does anyone else want to add to the list of things you KNOW in your heart because you bother to make room for something called compassion and love?

[jrmarlin]

O_M, you are ON a rampage today..... You're not going to back down are you? You are a chick with a MISSION! I love it!

 

Chris, between O_M and Mr. G., you're toast, buddy. You have no one to blame but thyself.

[Open_Minded]

O_M, you are ON a rampage today..... You're not going to back down are you? You are a chick with a MISSION! I love it!

 

Chris, between O_M and Mr. G., you're toast, buddy. You have no one to blame but thyself.

 

Thanks Jrmarlin ... but it's not that hard to figure out....

 

Don't ever piss off a MOM.

 

Like I said in other posts... this is NOT a debate with me. He pushed my mother button. If it were physically possible for me to do it - I would remove that baby from his home. It isn't possible for any of us to do that. But we are parents, aunts, uncles, older siblings, etc.. we all know children and babies and we all KNOW IN OUR HEARTS they desever better.

 

We can hold him accountable - not let him run away from his own violent tendancies.

 

We all KNOW what is wrong - and we need to hold him to a higher standard than a damn literal theology. So have at it everyone ... lowely apostates that you are .... I'm sure you have many lessons for Chris. What do you KNOW is wrong - without the need for a hate-filled, vengeful, egotistical, maniac of a "god" to inform you?

[Amethyst]

For instance ... I KNOW:

 

That it is wrong to beat children

That it is wrong to convince children that they are worthless sinners - that they are wicked.

That it is wrong to convince children that they are not lovable in my eyes - or in the eyes of God.

That it is wrong to go into someone elses home and tell them that they are wicked, worthless sinners and that they will fry in hell

 

Almond to that!

 

Not only going into someone's home, but even just telling someone that on the street isn't right. Telling people they deserve to be tortured for all of eternity is a form of emotional abuse. Nobody deserves that, and certainly not the average person. Certainly not for following another religion or none at all. Hate is what it really, truly is. I think most fundies know this, but they are afraid to admit it to themselves.

[Antlerman]

The floor is now open for discussion - does anyone else want to add to the list of things you KNOW in your heart because you bother to make room for something called compassion and love?

Oh hell... this is an easy one. I KNOW in my heart that the portrait of a God as understood by fundamentalists is contrary to all that is beautiful.

[Open_Minded]

I know in my heart that the only qualification for being an adoptive parent should be whether the parent(s) would provide unconditional love and support for their adoptive children. I know in my heart that adoption agencies should be more concerned, about finding safe loving homes for children than making a stink over same-sex couples adopting children. I know in my heart that many heterosexual couples (who religious extremists and/or abusive) are less qualified to raise children then many same-sex couples.

 

http://www.southcoasttoday.com/daily/03-06...tate-region.htm

 

Catholic Charities to halt adoptions

By STEVE LeBLANC , Associated Press writer

 

The Boston Archdiocese's Catholic Charities announced yesterday it will stop providing adoption services because state law allows gays and lesbians to adopt children.

[♦ nivek ♦]

Pinned just so Chris can't miss this obvious set of questions he and his belief system seem so abled to answer.

 

Be *my* preference that others stay outa this thread with the *pile on effect* until Chris gets his opening salvos.

 

Don't stack the thread up so much that his answers, if any, get lost in a great signal to noise ratio clutter.

 

kL

[Fweethawt]

Open_Minded,

 

You and I must be on a similar wavelength tonight. On the way into work, I too thought about typing out a thread that is "dedicated" to Chris. The only difference would have been my telling of what happened at my son's band practice earlier this evening.

 

I don't know all of the details, but I do know that (I think) four students at my son's school had just recently (within the past few weeks) experienced a car accident. All of the children are in/of the same grade/age as my son. One of the boys in the accident (whom my son was well acquainted with because he was in the band also) has been in a coma ever since the accident. Sometime last week at one of the band's concerts, this boys girlfriend let everyone know that she had been to the hospital everyday and that he was doing well. After her speech, she played a beautiful solo on the piano dedicated to the boy.

 

Tonight, my son's four-hour band practice was cut short with the news that the boy had died this evening.

 

I won't go into all of the details of what happened at the school this evening. However, I was also made aware that another student (a girl) that was in the accident also died. I think she died at the scence or shortly thereafter. Her boyfriend that was also in the accident with her is in the hospital. From what I've heard, his legs are messed up, and his face had been crushed to a point where he will need reconstructive surgery and, at the moment, he is unable to talk because they had to wire his jaws shut. I don't know how well he is, but nobody has told him yet that his girlfriend is dead. He keeps asking about her (by writing), but apparently they aren't giving him the truth just yet.

 

Once I absorbed this whole scenario in the car this evening... We have one of our school's top sax players (and a very nice kid to boot) that laid in a coma for a couple of weeks and died. The girl in the accident died. And her boyfriend, who will be fucked up for life, not just from his injuries, but after he finds out that his girlfriend is dead, just helped my solidify in my mind that there is no god. Or, if there is, he's one fucked up sonovabitch for letting this happen to these children.

 

 

And then there's Chris. Chris and his 4 month old son. Already contemplating schakling his son's mind with ignorance, superstition and outright lies because he is convinced that he will be rewarded with the love of his god for doing so.

 

Chris, if you're reading this, you may not realize it, but your life, and your son's life, are just a "blip" on the radar-screen of time. Your son, although it'll be a while before he's out and about getting into things, could very well be taken from you - by death - at any time.

 

Don't mess up his life with the hope of bettering your own.

 

There's enough misery in the world that he'll learn on his own.

He doesn't need it inflicted upon him by his parents.

[Open_Minded]

Once I absorbed this whole scenario in the car this evening... We have one of our school's top sax players (and a very nice kid to boot) that laid in a coma for a couple of weeks and died. The girl in the accident died. And her boyfriend, who will be fucked up for life, not just from his injuries, but after he finds out that his girlfriend is dead, just helped my solidify in my mind that there is no god. Or, if there is, he's one fucked up sonovabitch for letting this happen to these children.

 

Oh Fweethawt ... my heart truly goes out to you and your child and his whole class. My children have had to deal with the sudden death of friends/classmates as well. It sucks ... young lives suddenly taken from parents, family, friends, community. It just sucks.

 

Fwee ... what grade is your son in? Were all these kids in the same class?

 

I will expand more on the situation my children have to deal with later ... when I'm addressing Chris .... but as one parent to another, my heart goes out to all of you.

 

And then there's Chris. Chris and his 4 month old son. Already contemplating schakling his son's mind with ignorance, superstition and outright lies because he is convinced that he will be rewarded with the love of his god for doing so.

 

Chris, if you're reading this, you may not realize it, but your life, and your son's life, are just a "blip" on the radar-screen of time. Your son, although it'll be a while before he's out and about getting into things, could very well be taken from you - by death - at any time.

 

Don't mess up his life with the hope of bettering your own.

 

There's enough misery in the world that he'll learn on his own.

He doesn't need it inflicted upon him by his parents.

 

Chris, I am now going to address you and tell you why your story scares me, why I won't let this go.

 

Whether you recognize it, or not - you have come out of an abusive background. I don't know if it was your parents - or someone else. But something in your life convinced you that you were wretched and wicked. And now - you are a parent. And I know all too well that the cycle will probably continue. The chances are extremely high that you will treat your son the same way you were treated. And this frightens me.

 

Do you know why it frightens me so much, Chris? Why this frightens me to the point where I've made a decision to hound you about it?

 

It frightens me because I know children who have come out of abusive situations. I'm going to tell you about a family I know. Fifteen years ago, when we moved to the community we live in now, we met a family at church. This is a family built on love - pure unconditional love.

 

Fifteen years ago, my youngest was a baby. The mother (J) and I became very good friends because She had children in the same age group. We used to watch each others children. But, her children were different from mine Chris. They were foster children. They came out of abusive and neglectful situations. In the years J and I have been friends her family has adopted 5 children from the foster care system, Chris. Over 30 children have gone through J's home as foster children.

 

One of the boys they adopted came to J's home when he was only 3 years old. My youngest was 3 at the time as well. This little boy (D) was so sweet. But he had been terribly abused Chris. He was mute, he woke up with night terrors every single night for over 6 months after coming to J's home. We could not leave him alone in a room, with himself, other children or pets for months because all he had ever known was violence. And he would act out this violence on himself, other children or pets.

 

He had burn marks on his body, Chris. Marks put there by his mother with a hot curling iron. Not just a few, Chris. He had a lot of these burn marks. His little soul was so violently attacked that he was lost in a silent world ridden with terror that would come out in the middle of the night. Of all the children to go through J's home, D suffered the most severe abuse.

 

He came into J's home at the age of 3. By the time he and my youngest child were 5 years old, J and her husband had decided to adopt D. D had matured considerably. He was, by then a sweet happy 5 year old boy. He was no longer waking up with night terrors. And although he had some problems that other children don't have - it looked as though he was past the worst of the abuse. He was in a safe and loving home. The internal demons that remained from his first three years of life would recede in time and we all celebrated his adoption.

 

As the years passed - our families remained friends. D and my youngest daughter went to school together - and life seemed normal. D was an active, energetic young man. The structure of school was hard for him, but all in all he seemed to be doing well.

 

Then when D and my daughter were in eighth grade - D committed suicide. Now here is the long and short of it all. On the surface D carried on - but underneath the surface the abuse that happened from the time D was about the age of your son to the age of three ate away at D. Despite the fact that he was in a safe and loving environment. Despite the fact that he was getting professional help to deal with the aftermath of abuse, when he hit his early teen years J tells me that all hell broke loose in this child's mind.

 

See the abuse that he endured happened when he was too young to have any conscious memory of it. For some reason when he hit the early teens a lot of repressed memories started surfacing. He couldn't endure, Chris. Despite all the love in his life - he couldn't endure the aftermath of the abuse. And one night he went outside and hung himself in a tree in his front yard. He was 13 years old.

 

Chris - you know in your heart that your son deserves better than you received. You know that.

 

________

 

Fweethawt ... within 6 months of D taking his own life another young girl in my son's class died in a car accident. She was a senior in highschool. Within another 3 months a boy in my daughter's class drowned. That whole year just sucked.

 

I'm going to say one more thing here as a parent of children who have had to deal with loosing friends, at such a young age. Chris - Fwee is right. It can happen at any time to any family.

 

And Fwee --- you are probably already aware of this --- but I'm going to put the advice out there. I'm sure you've read in other threads about the two teen friends of my daughters that are getting caught up in fundamentalist/literalist Christianity. The reason these girls have gotten caught up in it goes back to the deaths of their friends. After these tragedies the local fundies went into high gear recruiting teens. To the degree that young teens at school were telling their classmates that they needed to accept Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior because a car accident could take them at any moment, and if they weren't the "right" kind of Christian they would go to hell.

 

Now... Fwee (and anyone else reading this thread) I'm not blaming the teens that were saying this. They are children. They were just repeating what they heard at church, or from their parents. But, Fwee ... be on the look out for it. If not for your own children, for your children's friends.

 

And Chris ... you look deep into your heart. You know what someone did to you to cause you so much pain, and you know it was wrong. You hold yourself to the higher standard of unconditional love. I won't let this go, Chris. For D and for your son - I will hound you until you have the courage to come in here and address my concerns.

_____

 

nivek ... thanks for pinning this thread. If we can do nothing else productive for Chris' son, we can at least confront Chris. So thank you for helping in that cause.

[Fweethawt]

Thank you for you kind words, Open_Minded.

 

Fwee ... what grade is your son in? Were all these kids in the same class?

As far as I know, yes, all of the children were in the same grade. However, my son only knew the boy who died yesterday. So far, he is handling it rather well. He is in tenth grade.

Now... Fwee (and anyone else reading this thread) I'm not blaming the teens that were saying this. They are children. They were just repeating what they heard at church, or from their parents. But, Fwee ... be on the look out for it. If not for your own children, for your children's friends.

Thanks for the concern. But this isn't exactly something that I think I need to worry about. Both of my boys are pretty good at smelling b.s. when they hear it. So far. *knock on wood*

[Open_Minded]

Fwee ... what grade is your son in? Were all these kids in the same class?

As far as I know, yes, all of the children were in the same grade. However, my son only knew the boy who died yesterday. So far, he is handling it rather well. He is in tenth grade.

 

Yes, my daughter and her friends are in 10th grade now. D took his own life at the end of 8th grade. The next friend (she was in my son's class) died in a car accident in the middle of my daughter's 9th grade year and another friend died in a drowning at the end of their 9th grade year. It's hard for kids to grasp.

 

 

Now... Fwee (and anyone else reading this thread) I'm not blaming the teens that were saying this. They are children. They were just repeating what they heard at church, or from their parents. But, Fwee ... be on the look out for it. If not for your own children, for your children's friends.

Thanks for the concern. But this isn't exactly something that I think I need to worry about. Both of my boys are pretty good at smelling b.s. when they hear it. So far. *knock on wood*

 

I know what you mean, my daughter and son are pretty well able to fend it off. But some of my daughter's friends have been caught up in it all.

 

In addition - more than once my daughter has had to listen to other kids speculate on whether the kids who died "went to heaven or hell". It's upsetting - even if you don't believe in it.... especially if you were close to the person they are talking about. It's sick ... and before all this happened I would never have thought that people would sit around and have those types of conversations. But, as I said, the kids saying that crap are only repeating what they hear from adults.

 

_________

 

Anyway, back to the OP, Chris .... it's been since 12th March 2006 - 03:05 PM since you've been on this board as yourself. Are you lurking - because you don't want to deal with the painful reality of your life?

Chris - you have a choice now - while your son is young.

 

You don't have to make the same mistakes the person(s) who hurt you made. When you are older, you don't have to look back on your life with regrets that you hurt those you love.

 

Take a long look at the beautiful son of yours and ask yourself what you want for him.... for you and him as father and son? Do you want anger and hatred and resentment, or do you want love?

 

You can choose love - Chris. But first you have to acknowledge the pain you experienced yourself - you have to be honest.

 

So how about Chris? .... stop lurking -- step on in here and let's talk about the pain of abuse.

[Eponymic]

 

So how about Chris? .... stop lurking -- step on in here and let's talk about the pain of abuse.

 

It may be a while, Chris only comes by every now & then.

Must love the hit & run action.

[jrmarlin]

 

So how about Chris? .... stop lurking -- step on in here and let's talk about the pain of abuse.

 

It may be a while, Chris only comes by every now & then.

Must love the hit & run action.

Chris is what cyber usually refers to as a snert. He's not a troll as he doesn't berrage, but a snert is more prone to hit and runs. I believe he's probably reading the threads as an anonymous or guest not under his name. He is curious as all hell what his last tyrate yielded but he doesn't have the balls to face Mr. G. and O_M.

 

Especially when O_M continues to put that red letter in her posts regarding his child. But I can guarantee you, he is probably most definitely lurking. I would bet on it.

[nightflight]

My conscience tells me that eternal punishment is wrong. Am I not to trust my conscience on this point?

[Taphophilia]

Your children are not your children.

 

They are the sons and daughters of Life's longing for itself.

 

They come through you but not from you,

 

And though they are with you, yet they belong not to you.

 

You may give them your love but not your thoughts.

 

For they have their own thoughts.

 

You may house their bodies but not their souls,

 

For their souls dwell in the house of tomorrow, which you cannot visit, not even in your dreams.

 

You may strive to be like them, but seek not to make them like you.

 

For life goes not backward nor tarries with yesterday.

 

You are the bows from which your children as living arrows are sent forth.

 

The archer sees the mark upon the path of the infinite, and He bends you with His might that His arrows may go swift and far.

 

Let your bending in the archer's hand be for gladness;

 

For even as he loves the arrow that flies, so He loves also the bow that is stable.

 

(From The Prophet by Kihlil Gibran)

[jrmarlin]

My conscience tells me that eternal punishment is wrong. Am I not to trust my conscience on this point?

 

No. Trust your conscience -- it knows better where you're going than a book or a group of fanatical people.

 

Know thyself -- as you already know all the answers, the trick now is to remember them.

[Open_Minded]

Your children are not your children.

They are the sons and daughters of Life's longing for itself.

They come through you but not from you,

And though they are with you, yet they belong not to you.

You may give them your love but not your thoughts.

For they have their own thoughts.

You may house their bodies but not their souls,

For their souls dwell in the house of tomorrow, which you cannot visit, not even in your dreams.

<snip - for space only>

(From The Prophet by Kihlil Gibran)

 

Taph .. that poem is beautiful .... thank you.

 

Chris ... your silence is speaking volumes.

 

In case you are questioning whether you were in fact abused - you may want to check out the following link:

 

http://www.auburn.edu/~robincd/www_task_or...w%20the%20facts

 

Child abuse has lifelong effects. An abused child becomes a crippled adult. We have all been abused to some degree as children. It's effects can be crippling. Below are some very common abuses:

 

This article goes onto explain signs of abuse in the following areas:

• Sexual abuse
  
• Intellectual Abuse:
  
• Spiritual Abuse
  
• Physicial Abuse:
  
• Emotional Abuse:
  

Under "Spiritual abuse"

 

Do you remember a religious counsel taking advantage of your vunerability emotionally or sexually, being told "God will punish you for this", or "You're an evil child?",

 

How often were you told that you were "an evil child" Chris? Did you hear that line of thought daily, many times a day? What type of infractions - brought on those words?

 

Now is the time, Chris. Deep in your heart - you know this. You know that now is the time to be honest about what you endured, so that your son does not have to endure the same from you (as HIS father).

 

How about it, Chris? Are you strong enough to come in here and be honest?

 

I will guarantee that others on this board experienced the same abuse, they can help you overcome it so that you can stop the cycle of abuse. They can help you now, so your son doesn't have to have your memories 20 years from now.

 

Look at that baby in your arms. He's worth the pain of being honest, Chris. He is.

[white_raven23]

Chris De Vidal is now a proven coward!

 

According to the cute little feature at the bottom of this forum, He was present in our company ten minutes ago.

 

I find it hard to believe he didn't notice a thread with his name on it.......

 

Yet he has no answer for you O_M.

 

Not even a "I can't address this right now....but I will".

 

Observant folks are a bitch aren't they Chris? Kinda like we "observed" your advocation of emotional abuse of a minor.

 

I wish we could do more to save your precious child from you. Before you convice him that he's unworthy trash, evil and ugly in the eyes of your Sadistic Biblegod.

[Fweethawt]

Wow!

 

I never knew that C - H - R - I - S spells BUSTED!

[♦ ficino ♦]

Regarding the whole "10 Commandments Written on Our Hearts" issue.... So, without looking at the Bible we should all feel the pull to worship YHWH from Friday sunset to Saturday sunset each week and also know not to light a candle? Not even Chrsitians do that. And seeings how God's name isn't God but; Yahweh, YHWH, Elohim, etc. I should know his name, right off the bat without having once ever read the bible? Afterall, you are saying these things are "written on our hearts". Technically, a Christian could say God damn it, fuck god, screw god, I hate god and not use his name in vain because 'God' is not the name of Yahweh. Then there isn't an agreement on how to spell it let alone even pronounce it! So if you said God damn it, you could be talking about one of the other gods such as Zeus. Hence, not using your god's name in vain.

 

Once one begins to pick apart these things line by line, the more and more the foolishness cannot be ignored, unless done so blatantly.

 

 

I think it's all very simple.

 

Consider this argument.

 

1. I realize I've done bad things.

2. therefore Calvinism (or whatever form of Christianity you want) is true.

 

 

Does 2 follow from 1?

 

No.

 

Chris de Vidal, go away.

[Onyx]

What a beautiful thread. Keep up the good work, Open Minded, you are a sparkle of hope in Christianity and as well as humanity itself.

We all live for that rare sort of goodness.

We want to be more than good even though we can pass as innocent.

Not many people are totally evil.

As I said, Chris, you still have a choice.

 

COME ON! SPEND A FEW MINUTES ADDRESSING THE TOPIC!

It's worth it!

[Open_Minded]

Chris De Vidal is now a proven coward!

 

According to the cute little feature at the bottom of this forum, He was present in our company ten minutes ago.

 

I find it hard to believe he didn't notice a thread with his name on it.......

 

Yet he has no answer for you O_M.

 

Not even a "I can't address this right now....but I will".

 

Observant folks are a bitch aren't they Chris? Kinda like we "observed" your advocation of emotional abuse of a minor.

 

I wish we could do more to save your precious child from you. Before you convice him that he's unworthy trash, evil and ugly in the eyes of your Sadistic Biblegod.

 

Thanks white_raven - for the scout out and report. Let's stay with this folks - it's our one chance to positively impact this child's life.

 

Chris ...

 

I'm sorry if this is tearing at you - facing pain can be tremendously chaotic. But - if you're lurking - then I KNOW IN MY HEART there is hope:

1. That you KNOW IN YOUR HEART the abuse you received as a child was wrong.
   
2. That YOUR HEART wants better for your own son.
   
3. And that YOUR HEART does not want to be responsible for treating a child (your child) the way you were treated.
   

So ... here's an option to consider Chris. Look around this board - for as much as you've witnessed folks "pile on" and call people out - you will also notice compassion. It's a mixed bag - to be sure. So, I can understand if you're a bit concerned about coming into the Lion's Den and having a discussion about the abuse you endured as a child. To say nothing of having a discussion about the abuse you DON"T want to commit as a father.

 

Keep in mind, Chris, that many here have endured abuse as a child. They are quite familiar with the pain in your heart. But, you have to take the first step. You have to acknowledge the pain - in order to deal with it effectively.

 

So... let's do this. I'm going to force you to take the first step - because that is part of healing. Part of healing is admitting there is a problem to begin with.

 

The first step is to contact the moderators - any one of them - and ask them to move this conversation to a "safer" area. They will do that for you Chris - but you must act first - because the action will tell us volumes - it will tell us you know there is a problem to discuss.

 

Mods ... I've only one request. Move this discussion anywhere you see fit - if Chris contacts you. But please set up rules in advance. In order for Chris to feel comfortable talking about the abuse he endured - he needs to know there are boundries that all of us will live within. You can PM me if he does want it moved - I'd like input on structuring the discussion.

 

How about it Chris? I've said this before - and I will keep saying it. Look at that baby in your arms - YOU KNOW IN YOUR HEART THAT HE DESERVES BETTER THAN YOU RECEIVED. Contact the mods, Chris. We can have this discussion in a civilized manner.

[Seabiscuit]

Chris, I have no idea who you are or what your relationship is like with your little son. My parents had/have the same belief system that you do now. They believed that I was born in sin and without strong correction, I would become evil.

 

My parents carried out the bible as they understood it in every possible way. Chris, I experienced christian abuse from the time I was six months old. Following the old testament, they lovingly and carefully beat me. If I showed any sign of sinfulness or bad attitudes, they took me into a room, explained my sin, removed my clothes from the waist down, placed me/asked me to bend over a bed or grab a chair, hit me until I gave a broken and submissive cry (no matter how long it took), dressed me, held me and together we prayed to god for forgiveness.

 

I don't know what you're doing to your son now. Hearing day in and day out how sinful one is would be enough to cause mental damage even if the message is loving.

 

Chris, I'm 38 years old and I've had to fight for my menatal wellness and fight the tempation to commit sucide. I'm one of four children and one of several families that practiced this method of removing sin. None of my siblings have happy, healthy lives. My brother was/is abused by his wife/exwife. His son now in deep dark depression and we're hoping he makes it to adulthood.

 

The other families, one child never married and could not find the courage to do much with his life at all. Another child grew up to live with a man who beats her and has put her in the hospital. Incidentally, this woman was the most submissive and easiest to beat the sin out of.

 

These aren't happy stories, Chris. If you continue, your child's story won't be happy either. I have very little/controled contact with my family. I have no children because of the abuse.

 

If you're capable of empathy, Chris, look real hard at your son. Ask yourself this one question, "What will my son be telling me when he's 38 years old?" Will you be able to live with his story?

[jrmarlin]

Chris, with the kids are today and given the horrendous scenario described by Seabiscuit regarding Beat the Sin out of child, I would strongly counsel you to think "the Menedez Brothers Incident." Do you remember what happened?

 

The sons, who had been beaten by their father (I don't buy the sexual abuse but do by that they were mentally and physically abused,) killed both parents in a fit of rage. Each parent had in excess of 10 bullet wounds to the body and head. The mother was the last to die. Kyle (the oldest) walked up to her as she was crawling across the floor and shot her point blank range right in the head, blowing her brain matter all over the carpet and couch. The father was not only shot in the body and head, but also his balls and penis were shot off. They did not use hand guns - they used shotguns. Yes, shotguns at close range.

 

A lot of children now days are not afraid to use guns and some, when they are brought up in serverely strict homes, lash back and usually kill or mame their parents.

 

Is that what you want to happen to you? Do you want your son to kill you? Do you want him to have thoughts of killing you and your wife? If you do, then keep it up. Children eventually grow up -- and then the same parents that were their tyranny, become the child's victim.

 

Just food for thought.

[Fweethawt]

Is that what you want to happen to you? Do you want your son to kill you? Do you want him to have thoughts of killing you and your wife? If you do, then keep it up. Children eventually grow up -- and then the same parents that were their tyranny, become the child's victim.

As a child, I remember having some thoughts of vengeance toward my dad. It was bad enough that the "gears" in my head were spinning rather regularly on the subject.

 

But I never did anything.

 

I do remember my last beating though. I emotionlessly looked directly into his eyes while he was hitting me. He stopped, walked away and didn't talk to me for about a week.

 

I think that I gave him something to think about in doing that. He never hit me again from then on.