Scared To Tell The Wife

[HoustonHorn]

I suppose I should go in with my story first.

 

Up until I was 22 I went to church twice - once on Easter with my grandmother and once to see my cousin confirmed. But I grew up with a basic understanding that there was a god. I had a kids bible that I read and knew most of the stories from. And I sort of had the same relationship with Jesus that I did with Santa Claus.

 

Fast foward to 22. I started going to church with the girl I was dating at the time - we're now married. Originally it was because that was the only way I could spend time with her on Sundays. Sitting through an hour or so of music (which I enjoy) and a little lecture on morality seemed a pretty small price to pay.

 

But I never felt like I fit in at the church. One day at the Lord's supper it clicked while I was sitting in the back of the church with the rest of the 'visitors' while the members ate their crackers and drank their juice - Baptist church that didn't believe in open communion. I had gone to this church for almost a year and was still considered a visitor. So the next week I went to the front during invitation and said I wanted to be baptised and of course was asked if I had accepted Jesus. What was I supposed to say? Yes. And at that time I truly believed it. A couple of weeks later my family came down and I got baptised. I started getting serious about Sunday school and we went twice on Sundays and Wednesday nights.

 

Married at that church, moved across town so we changed churches.

 

I even went to a Gideon dinner where they tried to get me to join. They wouldn't accept no for an answer, so I signed their form but never sent in the money to join. I even went to one of the chapter near my house meetings on Saturday morning. Well it was mid-summer so I wore shorts. Apparently not the correct dress code. As the leader was praying he said something along the lines of "help as as we get together and dress up, some more than others." He just disrespected me in front of god! Needless to say, that was the last experience I've had with the Gideons. They'd call for a couple weeks afterwards to try and get me to send the check, and I still get emails occassionally, but I don't reply.

 

We even led a class at church. I think that's when I started realizing that Christianity and me didn't always agree.

 

What has been the biggest catch that I can't overcome is that I'm supposed to believe that god created the world, sent his son to die for us, etc; but every other religion that believes something similar but not exactly inline is false and inspired by satan. Even other Christian denominations are being led astray? That everything bad is the doing of the devil and everything good is from god? That the bible is better than the Koran (sp), the Book of Mormon, or any other religious book; but only if it's the version that Baptists believe in, the Catholic bible has books that aren't correct? Those extra chapters were written by men, not inspired by god? Any errors that I find in the bible are because I am interpreting it incorrectly, not becuase it's wrong? It's ok for a Baptist to go knocking on doors to get people to come to church, but if a Jehovah's Witness does it it's considered rude and annoying?

 

There's one question that I think finally pushed me over the edge. One of the common questions Christians ask is what's outside of our universe? Something had to create it - that something is god. Well, what's outside of god's universe? Something had to create him. Is there another god that our god worships?

 

I don't know that I'm quite ready to classify myself as an atheist. I'm thinking agnostic describes me most accurately - I don't know if there's a god, and I don't think we can ever know. That's not to say athiesm isn't in my future. But I suppose I can't say that Christianity isn't in my future, or Buddism, or paganism, or anything else.

 

Sorry for the length of this post, but I think it has helped me to be able to get my thoughts written down. This is as close to actually telling somebody all of this that I've been able to do. That's a very releasing feeling - much like prayer was months ago.

 

Which leads up to the question. How does one tell the person they love that they're going through this? My wife is relatively serious about church. I really think this conversation would cause a problem between us. But then again, we've been slacking on church recently. We haven't been to a Wednesday night service is over a year, at least 6 months since our last Sunday night service, and our excuses for skipping Sunday morning have been getting weaker and weaker. I'm also worried about what her family will think. They're basic bible believers, but don't go to church. My family's pretty liberal so I don't think they'll be an issue at all - except for my grandmother and aunt. But I know what my Christian friends and family will tell me the solution is - prayer. Conviently prayer only works if you believe, see the contradiction there?

 

I suppose I'm just looking for a support system while I go through this, and most of y'all here seem to genuinely be willing to offer that support. Ironically, it's a very "Christian" attitude towards helping others that I've seen here - except for the judgmental attitudes and threats of hell. y'all leave that part out. Almost like the good parts of Christianity without the bad.

[GreenXero]

Welcome to Ex-C.

 

Have you tried talking to here about her beliefs in a subtle way? She may be feeling the same way you do. If you guys are both making excuses to skip church, then there is a good possibility that she may not be very strong in her beliefs oris starting to have doubts about her beliefs. There have been others in the forums that were scared to talk to their significant other only to find out they felt the same way.

 

Good luck

[pandora]

Houston, we have a problem. Sorry, that was really lame.

 

Welcome! It sounds like your wife might be doubting too. If you talk with her now, it may be an opportune time since she hasn't been in the mind control of the church for a while, but in the meantime, she may have kind of made up her mind about SOMETHING... you know what I mean? It's still risky, and I suggest you bring it up gently and only a little at a time. Start with just asking her what she thinks about Christianity, don't tell her you're on your way to athiesm yet. That might be too big of a blow. Oh, and you're going to burn in Hell. Just kidding. You're not, and neither is anyone else.

 

Hopefully we can help you out.... keep us posted!

 

Oh, what does the "horn" mean? Do you play the French Horn by any chance? I did for a while... I love that instrument.

[HoustonHorn]

Thank y'all. It's the fear of the unknown that's causing the problem - of course, that seems to be a common theme. Part of my personality is always imagining worst case.

 

I've been trying to think of a good, subtle way to bring the subject up. So far haven't come up with anything.

 

Pandora - I graduated from the Univ of Texas - the Longhorns. Trumpet in middle school is about the closest to playing music that I ever came

[lothartx]

Welcome to Ex-C.

 

I can sympathize with your feelings. A lot of people here have been through similiar situations.

 

I may not be the best adivsor since I'm not doing so well in my own home...but...

 

It sounds like your wife may be having similiar feelings. Pick a nice quite time at home and ask how she feels about church and religion. It's better to know up front than to live in ambiguity. Be gentle, loving, and caring. Try to use open ended questions, not yes or no types.

 

Respecting and caring for each other are what's important, not having the exact same belief system.

 

Good luck.

 

BTW, I live in Austin, but I"m a transplant. They take their college very seriously around these parts, that's for sure.

[gliph]

 

Which leads up to the question. How does one tell the person they love that they're going through this? My wife is relatively serious about church. I really think this conversation would cause a problem between us. But then again, we've been slacking on church recently.

 

Welcome HH!

 

You might be in a good place, like the other posters have said, especially since both of you are willing to not go to church. You will definitely want to proceed with caution though. My wife and I are both in-process of leaving (i'm a lot farther along than she is) and you can have a bumpy road ahead. With that said, there are quite a few members here that have had their marriage basically ruined over this. Sorry to be so forward with it, but its the truth. Hopefully you will find some middle ground or a way to communicate through this.

 

On that note, I have a suggestion or at least a starting point. This is a site i've been reading through recently that has some of the most down-to-earth information on why xtianity isn't right. Its nicely laid out, has great examples and really just asks you to think about the evidence it provides. Its a huge site, but its given me a lot to think about and it may give you some ideas of ways to approach this with your wife. Its in my sig, its called Why Won't God Heal Amputees. The title of the website really refers to the section talking about prayer, but the site also has great information on the bible and jesus too. Its an easy read, hope it helps!

 

Thanks for sharing part of your story and good luck with your wife.

 

 

-Gliph

[white_raven23]

Welcome!

 

Hmm. You are in an interesting place in your relationship. I wouldn't go both barrels "I don't believe in this crap, I'm turning away" on your wife just yet. Because she's just as likely at this point to feel guilt over all the missed church and feel responsible for helping you turn away. This can cause an extreme reaction...and your beloved wife could suddenly become super-devout raving fundie on you. She will believe it's "help" because at this point, it's still the only way to be, so falling back on it in crisis will be second nature.

 

Take baby steps. Share jokes about religion with her. Watch her reactions. Show her super extremist websites like "Flat Earth" and such. Start with pointing out the obviously ludicrous. Keep an eye on how she takes it all.

 

Then move to some of the concepts brought up on this forum, like god sacrificing himself to appease himself. The more you think about such.....a thinking person cannot help but sense the ridiculousness of it all.

 

Encourage your wife to think and imagine.

 

Something sweet you can do with her......read to your wife. About anything. You see an article of interest, instead of handing it to her to read.....read it aloud to her. This leads more easily into discussion of the ideas presented.

 

And if she wants to read to you......be obvious about your enjoyment of it.

 

In time, you can start introducing reading material that challenges the belief systems a bit. I'm sure you see where I'm going here.

 

If there is anything in the Bible that is very true, it's the verses talking about partners who are unequally yoked. And there are people here who have experienced that very thing.

[Ex-COG]

Welcome, HoustonHorn. Yep, some good advice here. Find out how far your wife is drifting. You say she's serious about church, yet she also is slacking off in attendance? She might be in the same boat as you are.

 

Hey, we're getting a lot of doubters from Texas. Can we hope this a trend in the Lone Star state?

[Guest singlecoil]

I too am in a similar situation. Although I am further along than you. I started by telling her that I had some questions that I could never get answers to and gradually let her know more and more of my unbelief. Our lives have been turned upside down by a series of illnesses that she has fought so in the middle of my deconversion she has also had reason to reflect and is moving away from fundyvile. She now questions the standard line that the church gives her.

 

Don't get me wrong though, we still are miles apart. We have talked about seperating. We would be seperating for other reasons but my apostacy certainly plays into her thought process. My hope in all this is that she will wake up to the delusion of it all and take that off her list of reasons to leave.

 

Long story short I would be subtle and gentle realizing that in the end it could cost you (either by faking it for peace, or by losing your family). You just have to be willing to pay the price if it should come to that IMO.

[spamandham]

Which leads up to the question. How does one tell the person they love that they're going through this? My wife is relatively serious about church. I really think this conversation would cause a problem between us. But then again, we've been slacking on church recently. We haven't been to a Wednesday night service is over a year, at least 6 months since our last Sunday night service, and our excuses for skipping Sunday morning have been getting weaker and weaker.

 

If your wife hasn't been to church in 6 months, I think it's safe toi say she doesn't really want to go. Why not? Fundies go every chance they get.

[HoustonHorn]

We haven't been on a Sunday night in 6mos. We normally go every Sunday morning, but have only gone 3 times out of the last 8 Sunday mornings. She's never been what I would consider a fundalmentalist.

[Lilith]

Welcome HoustonHorn.

 

I really don't have much to add at this point except that what everyone has said so far is true. Take it easy....baby steps. Don't forget to breathe once in a while. I love the "show your wife love by reading to her" bit....that would make me swoon, if my husband did something like that for me.

 

And continue to share. It helps sort your feelings out....

[spamandham]

I love the "show your wife love by reading to her" bit....

 

Nitschke or Russell?

[Lizard]

Hey, we're getting a lot of doubters from Texas. Can we hope this a trend in the Lone Star state?

 

I would say so! Texas is waking up from a long, long sleep..

[spamandham]

Hey, we're getting a lot of doubters from Texas. Can we hope this a trend in the Lone Star state?

 

I would say so! Texas is waking up from a long, long sleep..

 

 

Maybe we'll soon be calling it tEXas!

 

(wishfull thinking from a dallasite suffocating under the buckle of the bible belt)

[Lapdog]

Welcome, HoustonHorn.

 

You might need some more time for that 3:8 ratio to move even further, so I would agree about the baby steps and starting with sharing some bits and pieces.

 

The reason I de-converted was because of a couple of good books. I didn't even know this was the angle the first one was going to take. I read the second one because I finally had a reason to. Both were given to me.

 

My country is about the least religious country in the world. We've just had another census but I think last time it was about 95% that say they have no religion. Anyway, many of these people can simply see clearly enough to know religions do not add up. However, I know people that believe Christianity is true but cannot reconcile it to their lifestyle, and are willing to disobey. In other words, they and Christianity do not agree, or they wish/hope God were different to how the church preaches him. These are the people that you hear about at church when they give their testimonies. If they were simply brought up as Chrisitians they would not have a testimony at all.

 

Before they converted, you could call these people morally questionable: they did not do as they believed. I think any woman is going to have a problem with someone like this, and the point of my ranting is that above all, I think it could be important that you demonstrate lots of moral integrity so your wife does not come to mistake you for someone that is disobedient to God when she discovers more. If she thinks you have not changed your beliefs because it is convenient, or that you are unsure, she might be willing to listen with an open mind.

 

Ultimately, I believe you would do well to get a book or two, read them, and then share from those books and get her to read them herself. My wife's English is not thorough enough for her to understand the books that I read, but she was very interested to hear about them from me. I was the one that converted her, so in your situation there might be a potential problem with your wife having a sense of failure or an underlying feeling that you were not a true believer all this time.

 

Here's an excerpt from the book that changed me: http://www.history.kessler-web.co.uk/Featu...esTestament.htm. All I had to do after that was read a book about the true Jesus and willingly subject myself to arguments and information from the other side to ensure I was not being persuaded by dodgy information, and that the real dodgy information was the Bible.

[HoustonHorn]

Maybe we'll soon be calling it tEXas! woohoo.gif

Didn't George Strait sing 'All the exes live in Texas'? Oh wait, that was All MY exes. Maybe there should be a parody made? That actually gets into one of my issues about why religions are so regional, but that's a conversation for another thread.

 

Gliph, thanks for that link. I've read through it, but I know I need to go back and dig a little deeper into it.

 

The subject came up last night as we were getting ready for bed. Apparently I had a 'look' that she asked about. So for about 4 hours we went over doubts and possible answers. And to be fair, her answers made sense under the assumption that God is real - and I don't know that I'm quite at the point to deny that yet. But I do think I'm closer to that denial than I claimed to be last night.

 

And, we didn't go to church this morning. I don't know if that was her thinking I didn't want to, her giving me space away from church to work things out, or the fact that we didn't go to sleep 'til almost 3am. Either way, it was nice being able to roll out of bed at 8 and cook breakfast for the two of us, something I enjoy doing but rarely have a chance to do.

 

So, I think it went better than I was expecting. She seemed to just accept it, although I can't see inside her head so there may be some masked issues that will come up later.

 

And a favor. Do any of y'all have links to sites to help work through this that aren't biased one side or the other? For example, I know my pastor would sit down and talk with me about this, but I obviously know what side he's on. Y'all have been a great help already, but I know what side of the fence you're on. I'd like to find some type of literature that doesn't sit on either side of the fence. I think that would help me work through this.

[webmdave]

The way I introduced my loss of faith to my wife was to leave whatever book I was reading in plain view. I think one of them was Dan Barker's "Losing Faith in Faith."

 

From there we started having short discussions, and finally she she joined me in apostacy. It took her about two years to come fully out, but she is an MK, so that was pretty fast, considering.

 

Anyway, don't push, whatever you do. That's what fundies do -- push. We don't have that need anymore.

[bob]

Hi HH,

I really don't have any advice. I can relate to what you are going through, somewhat. I left the faith about 6 years ago after believing for 25 years. My wife at the time (I am now divorced) remained a believer. I did what Webmaster Dave did-I bought a copy of "Losing Faith in Faith" and let her read it. She gave up her faith also (though, since our divorce, she has returned to some sort of religious belief).

I have been seeing a woman for the past year. I love her madly. I have been going to church with her every Sunday for the past 10-11 months, just to be with her. Like you, that is the only way I can see her on Sundays. It is very hard on me, sitting there, surrounded by all these believers as they go through their rituals, their praying, singing, hand raising, tithing, and communion.

My girlfriend has known from the beginning that I am no longer a believer. She has told a few in her church, (the few who have bothered to ask about me) that I am "backslidden". I told her she could tell them what ever she was comfortable with.

I always sit there by myself when they take communion (and that is every Sunday) at the end of the service. While they all gather around, hold hands, pray, and partake of the wafer and juice, I sit there by myself.

Yesterday, for the very first time, just before communion, as everyone was getting up to gather in their circles, a lady stopped and asked me if I knew Jesus as my savior. Imagine...it has taken 11 months for anyone to show even the slightest concern for my eternity. Does that surprise me?, absolutely not.

I always sit there, feeling kind of dejected because I am left alone in a room with a bunch of strangers. I am sure it shows on my face. I feel dejected because my girlfriend feels it more important to participate in this ritual, leaving me there alone, than to show some compassion and sit with me, perhaps just every now and then.

Well, I am sure this lady who stopped to talk to me, mistook my sad look as conviction for my sinful nature. I thanked her and told her that I really didn't want to talk about it.

Sometimes I feel like I have made a big mistake, falling for this woman. I honestly do not see any hope that she will begin to question the validity of her beliefs. Problem is, I love her so much.

I am not dishonest. I stand with her when they sing songs of praise, but I never sing. I bow my head when they pray, but I just stair at the floor, or I look around at all the religious. She puts a 10th+ in the plate every Sunday, I never put in a cent. And if anyone ever presses me on it, which I predict is coming, I will admit that I am an atheist, and I will let them know that I come for one reason only...to be with the woman I love.

I have a terrible fear that some fanatic will attempt to convince her that she is committing a sin by seeing an unbeliever. We have talked about it, but she reassures me that she loves me and is committed to me...but...I know what religion does to relationships. It does not unite, it divides. It separates the "haves" from the "have-nots".

Keep us informed...and welcome to the forum.

[HoustonHorn]

Thank y'all for all the suggestions and words of encouragement. Turns out that it affected her more than I had thought. She started out asking if it was a problem with the church we go to, not church in general. We had gotten a postcard for new church nearby in the mail earlier in the week which she described as 'an odd coincidence', but I think she was saying 'sign from God' but without those words.

 

So she's trying to answer any questions I bring up, but somewhat unsuccessfully. We spent a while going back and forth that free will can't exist if the outcome is already known. It makes perfect sense to me, but I couldn't get that point across. She also suggested talking to friends of ours that are gung-ho Christians who may be able to answer my questions. My problem with that is that if their answers don't make sense it's going to come down to either I need to pray about it, I need to have faith, God is testing me, or I'm being punished for something I did. All of those mean it's my fault for having these doubts.

 

Unfortunately there were tears. And this led me to the realization that I owe it to her (and myself) to actually find problems straight from the bible rather than taking others word for it. Not knowing where else to start, I spent about an hour on Gen 1 and came out with more questions than I started with. But I think it helped her to know that I wasn't just abandoning Christianity to get out of going to church - I was seriously researching it, and it may end with me going back. I don't think it will, and I'm hoping my doubts will at least make her question Christianity.

 

And the phrase 'translation error' is really starting to get to me. I see that everywhere that somebody brings up a problem with the Bible. If the bible is supposed to be our guidebook for living on the earth, why would god allow it to be vague? Sorry, just a short rant.

[Guest Peach]

"And the phrase 'translation error' is really starting to get to me. I see that everywhere that somebody brings up a problem with the Bible. If the bible is supposed to be our guidebook for living on the earth, why would god allow it to be vague? Sorry, just a short rant."

 

And why would a god create someone like you and me all the while knowing where they will end up in a firely afterlife? ...or even create a being like Satan, for that matter, knowing the havoc he would cause. - Food for more thought.

[spamandham]

 

Unfortunately there were tears. And this led me to the realization that I owe it to her (and myself) to actually find problems straight from the bible rather than taking others word for it. Not knowing where else to start, I spent about an hour on Gen 1 and came out with more questions than I started with. But I think it helped her to know that I wasn't just abandoning Christianity to get out of going to church - I was seriously researching it, and it may end with me going back. I don't think it will, and I'm hoping my doubts will at least make her question Christianity.

 

And the phrase 'translation error' is really starting to get to me. I see that everywhere that somebody brings up a problem with the Bible. If the bible is supposed to be our guidebook for living on the earth, why would god allow it to be vague? Sorry, just a short rant.

 

If the Bible can have translation errors, then it is not word of god. His word is uncorruptable. How could a perfect omni^3 god write a perfect book thousands of years ago, only to watch it become corrupted over the ages without intervention. What would be the purpose of such a pointless exercise? Even worse, not all the errors are translations errors. There are endeless discrepencies among ancient copies written in the same language. Some of these differences are insurmountably huge, for example, the differences between Matthew and the Ebionite Book of the Hebrews (which were said to be different versions of the same text by early church fathers).

 

If you want inconsistencies, the skeptics annotated buybull has hundreds of them, although I have found some of the "inconsistencies" are debatable even among skeptics, but many of them are rock solid.

 

But really, what does such an excercise prove? What if you could find no inconsistencies in the buybull, does that make it god's word? You're wasting your time. It isn't your job to find inconsistencies, it's her job to demonstrate what is obviously legend and mythology is actually true.

[HoustonHorn]

That's why that phrase bothers me. If something is wrong, it must be because a man (as in human, not as in male) made a mistake. It couldn't be god. Sounds like a good topic for another thread - is there one on that floating around? It's on my list of things to learn more about.

 

Potentially good news. We went to a different church yesterday. It was a 'baptist' church, but not nearly as hard core as either of our previous churches. The pastor mentioned one verse and then talked about what it meant. But he only used the verse as a way to start the topic - no other mention of god or Jesus until the end. And it wasn't a religious topic but one on how you live your life so it applied to both sides of the god arguement. I also heard something I never thought I would at church - "Visitors, you shouldn't feel obligated to put money in the collection trays." Huh? A church telling somebody it was ok not to give money.

 

We discussed going to a class for 'beginners in studying the Bible' which seems more on our level. Hopefully that'll open some doors to doubt. I really think both of us have fallen into the trap of believing what church elders tell us and accepting their interpretations as fact rather than coming to our own conclusions.

[DanInPA]

Hi HH.

 

This probably won't help, but get a load of these claims of Jesus:

 

Mk 11:24

Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours.

 

 

Mt 18:19

Again, I tell you that if two of you on earth agree about anything you ask for, it will be done for you by my Father in heaven.

 

 

Mt 16:27-28

27For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father's glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what he has done. 28I tell you the truth, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom."

 

 

Jn 14:12-14

12"Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do, he will do also; and greater works than these he will do; because I go to the Father.

13" Whatever you ask in My name, that will I do, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son.

14"If you ask Me anything in My name, I will do it.

 

 

Jn 17:20-23

20"I do not ask on behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in Me through their word;

21that they may all be one; even as You, Father, are in Me and I in You, that they also may be in Us, so that the world may believe that You sent Me.22"The glory which You have given Me I have given to them, that they may be one, just as We are one; 23I in them and You in Me, that they may be perfected in unity, so that the world may know that You sent Me, and loved them, even as You have loved Me.

 

 

Mk 16:17-1817

"These signs will accompany those who have believed: in My name they will cast out demons, they will speak with new tongues; 18they will pick up serpents, and if they drink any deadly poison, it will not hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover."

 

 

These are the words of Jesus! They are not open to misinterpretation. They are very clear and direct statements.

 

And none of these claims are true.

 

Can this be god/son of god?

Did he purposely lie or is he incompetent??

Can the bible even be considered the word of a supernatural god???

 

Like I said, probably won't change your wifes mind, but I found it impossible to continue believing a book so full of blatant untruths.

 

Take care,

Dan

 

PS

Have you checked out Why won't god heal amputees?

[white_raven23]

How about the very precise instructions for the tabernacle........also pretty precise detail about the dimensions of the ark.......

 

How is it we can have such precision about really mundane small potatoes shit....but when it comes to precisely how to ensure our good graces in biblegods eyes things get all muddled?

 

The most important shit has no clarity whatsoever......but I can get exact instructions about how to set the fucking table for dinner? (not literally....you get the idea)