My Long Story

[kellyb]

This was my school.

http://www.ecseagles.com/page.aspx?id=105471

 

And this was my church.

http://www.centralchurch.com/

 

All this till I was 14.

When I was 14 I fell in love with an ECS senior who’d just gotten out of a rehab center called ”Second Chance”…a rehab funded and supported by both my church and my school.

To qualify for this rehab, all a parent needed was a *suspicion* that their kid was smoking pot or tobacco, or whatever. So the kid was dropped off, stuck in a room with nothing but a bible for 3 months, and escorted by an graduating rehaber to the bathroom with the graduater holding the belt loop of the pants the whole time, no speaking allowed.

If you’re “good” those 3 months, then you go to phase 2, where you get to hear sermons once a day, but still are not allowed to speak to anyone for yet another 3 months.

Mess up once, and you’re back to the start of phase one, isolation for 3 more months.

It’s a long story after that, but let’s just say that Second Chance was extremely abusive and brainwashy.

Average graduation time was 4 years.

The kids in Second Chance went to ECS but weren’t allowed to speak to anyone.

Get caught talking to one of the “regular students” once, and you’re back to phase one, solitary confinement.

 

Anyway, when I was 14, I started getting into heated theological debates with the youth pastor.

Now, I should mention that the church is one of those mega-churches with thousands of members. And I happen to sing very well, and was kinda the “star”. When I was 7, I started singing solos on Sundays for thousands of people, which really gave me a warped sense of ego, truth be told.

I loved the church and the church loved me, from the pastor to the Sunday school teachers to the other kids with whom I was quite popular.

I actually thought, when I was arguing with the youth pastor, that he would either have a reasonable explanation, or see the fallacies of the church’s stance on some of this stuff and reconsider.

Maybe pass the message up or something.

 

I was told “You’re letting the devil guide your thinking, and we’re going to start praying for you”.

 

Uh-oh. There went my social life. “Kelly is under Satanic attack!” the rumor spread.

Then I fall in love with poor ol’ Second Chance boy and I start to see the way this stuff works. I’m 15 and pissed and tell my parents to enroll me in public school. Still Christian, I drift into the world of “liberal Christendom” which I know my former fundie self sees as “Not a real Christian”, but whatever.

My working theory for a while is that right-wing-fundamentalism must be the Whore of Babylon.

 

At 20 I’m hit by the darkest of depressions and loose my marbles for a few months, but come out of it a charismatic.

(How that worked out involved a charismatic friend, long story).

I’ve finally had The Born Again Experience I never actually had as an Evangelical.

(I used to want to walk down the isle every Sunday at “the invitation”, even though I’d done it already. I never had “The Experience“ before.)

 

Anyhow, so the new Pentecostal church pisses me off eventually, too, after my mental health stabilizes.

Back into the world of liberal Christenndom, (churchless) where I remain for 6 years.

 

Last year, it hit me.

I *was* brainwashed. I thought I made it out, but I didn’t.

*None* of Christianity actually makes sense.

Over the course of one day, it all came to me. There is no God. I’ve been deluding myself.

It was humbling.

But now I’m free of that bizarre little messianic cult.

I’m free of the monthly “crisis of faith depressions” I’ve been plagued with my whole life.

I’m free of the intellectual stagnation I inflicted upon myself.

I’m finally free.

[Guest JP]

Thank you for sharing your story! I enjoyed reading it. That "Second Chance" bullshit sounds extremely messed up. What a shining example of that Christian love.

 

Welcome to ExC!

[pandora]

I can totally relate to the crisis of faith depressions and intellectual stagnation (which I was vaguely aware of even when I was Christian).

 

I spent a good 2-3 years in deep depression when I first left Chrisitianity, and I lost my marbles too. Only the past year or so has been normal and marble-free.

 

 

Welcome!

[kellyb]

Thank you for sharing your story! I enjoyed reading it. That "Second Chance" bullshit sounds extremely messed up. What a shining example of that Christian love.

 

Welcome to ExC!

Thanks for the welcome.

Man, I could go on and on about Second Chance. Half the kids I know that went there were either doing nothing or just smoking pot when they were sent there.

Half are dead by suicide or heroin OD now.

It fucked them all up for life, more or less.

So sick and so sad.

It was one of the original "christian boot camp" type places, an offshoot of the "Scared STRAIGHT!" thing.

Yuck.

[kellyb]

I can totally relate to the crisis of faith depressions and intellectual stagnation (which I was vaguely aware of even when I was Christian).

 

I spent a good 2-3 years in deep depression when I first left Chrisitianity, and I lost my marbles too. Only the past year or so has been normal and marble-free.

 

 

Welcome!

Isn't that weird how something as seemingly benign as religion seems can totally scramble your brain?

Especially the "official american religion"?

When I first deconverted, I looked high and low for some kind of internet site for "recovering fundamentalists".

I remember googling "fundamentalist cult" but not finding anything.

 

I'm just so glad to have found this forum.

I was starting to wonder if I was the only X-Christian out there who had some leftover issues with theology.

[Guest Emerson]

Good for you kellyb. Now I understand what "knowledge is power" means, and how thinking and asking tough questions sets people on the path to freedom especially where belief is concerned. Like you I hated those "crisis of faith" moments each month. Its a terrible way to live. Best of wishes on your new path, wherever it may lead you.

[Merlinfmct87]

Thank you for sharing your story! I enjoyed reading it. That "Second Chance" bullshit sounds extremely messed up. What a shining example of that Christian love.

 

Welcome to ExC!

Thanks for the welcome.

Man, I could go on and on about Second Chance. Half the kids I know that went there were either doing nothing or just smoking pot when they were sent there.

Half are dead by suicide or heroin OD now.

It fucked them all up for life, more or less.

So sick and so sad.

It was one of the original "christian boot camp" type places, an offshoot of the "Scared STRAIGHT!" thing.

Yuck.

 

Yeah. With that kind of help, who needs drug dealers?

 

Glad you got out with most of your head and sanity intact, kellyb. A big warm welcome to Ex-C, a hug to you, and best wishes to you in the future. Things get easier after this.

 

Looking forward to hearing more from you,

 

Merlin

[Thurisaz]

My working theory for a while is that right-wing-fundamentalism must be the Whore of Babylon.

 

Only that?

 

At 20 I’m hit by the darkest of depressions and loose my marbles for a few months, but come out of it a charismatic.

(How that worked out involved a charismatic friend, long story).

 

Now the most active German in these forums just has to ask... what exactly does "losing your marbles" stand for? Going nuts, or is there another meaning to that?

 

Over the course of one day, it all came to me. There is no God. I’ve been deluding myself.

It was humbling.

But now I’m free of that bizarre little messianic cult.

 

Within one day...

Talk about a mental explosion!

Anyway, glad that you made it out of the madness

[Merlinfmct87]

At 20 I’m hit by the darkest of depressions and loose my marbles for a few months, but come out of it a charismatic.

(How that worked out involved a charismatic friend, long story).

 

Now the most active German in these forums just has to ask... what exactly does "losing your marbles" stand for? Going nuts, or is there another meaning to that?

 

Exactly so, yes. Off your rocker, losing your mind, going bonkers, off your head, etc etc etc.

Over the course of one day, it all came to me. There is no God. I’ve been deluding myself.

It was humbling.

But now I’m free of that bizarre little messianic cult.

 

Within one day...

Talk about a mental explosion!

Anyway, glad that you made it out of the madness

No kidding... impressive, too.

 

Merlin

[kellyb]

Well, over my final stint in liberal christendom the "Christian God" had already gotten fairly watered down.

I'd renounced in that time a belief in the trinity, the divinity of Christ, and hell. I'd come to believe that maybe all religions were equal and maybe god spoke to different people in different ways.

The evangelicals really are right about the proverbial "slippery slope" of not accepting the package deal.

 

And since I'd already deconverted from evangelicalism and pentecostalism, I had some practice in changing my belief systems.

[Guest GrewUpFundie]

Congratulations kellyb, and thanks for sharing your story. It's amazing what fundamentalist parents will do to "help" their kids...

[SunNSand4me]

Thanks for sharing! Wow, it's an eye-opener to hear about the christian boot camp thing. Totally unreal. And to think most of those people truly believe they're doing the right thing for these kids just boggles the mind.

 

What are you doing with your incredible voice these days?

[Lorena Rodriguez]

Kelly,

 

I, too, am impressed by your brilliance. You were 14 and already questioning, and not ony that, you also dared to talk to a pastor about it. Wow!

 

Where the the heck are the darn marbles? I can't find them....Well, maybe some day.

 

Thank you for posting,

 

Lorena

[kellyb]

Kelly,

 

That was tremendous. Thank you for sharing that. I too am in the midst of dealing with depression. It has taken a tragic circumstance with me personally and my own questioning of those in power of the church I went to to also come to a point I am coming out. How long did it take for the depression to subside? Was it gradual or all of a sudden? I am just curious because I am on an emotional rollercoaster myself. Again thanks!

It's hard to explain. I think I'm slightly biologically inclined to depression, but in not attaching some cosmic significance to my feelings, the severity of the depressions has been reduced to something that's just annoying as opposed to uncontrollable crying, wondering if I've pissed God off, wondering if I'm being tested, wondering what it means, wondering why God allows so much suffering everywhere in the world, wondering if God's telling me to go back to church, wondering if it's demonic oppression, wondering if I'm maybe looking at it all wrong, etc.

 

I would literally think and pray myself deeper and deeper into it.

 

Now I just tell myself "I'm feeling like crap, but it's ok. No depression lasts forever...it'll pass." and I pretty much force myself not to think about anything negative till it's over.

So I'll start to get depressed, and it passes, instead of turning into the hellish nightmare it used to.

It's kind of strange for me, because when I feel bad, that's when I really want to think about religious stuff...I know it's just a trick of the mind, though.

The "placebo prayer effect" for depression never really worked that great, and often had the opposite effect for me.

 

But I really haven't had what would qualify as clinical depression since that day that I swallowed the fact that every religious feeling, thought, and experience I'd ever had was the result of the brainwashing I went through as a kid.

 

Oh, and I forgot to mention that I was diagnosed with epilepsy a couple of years ago, and had to accept that my seizures (most are "thought seizures" that feel really mystical, like deja vu) were neurological, not evidence for the existance of god or anything supernatural.

That played a role in my deconversion, too.

 

And to the person who asked about singing..I've lost interest for the most part, but sing to my baby. Sometimes record stuff on Protools with my guitar playin' husband.

(we did a really....umm...interesting bluegrass version of "Dust in the Wind" a while back...lol...)

[Manta]

So you realise, Depression is a curse of the weak. Once you realise that any state of mind can be forced into a better one with sheer willpower alone, then you can do it for yourself, and you never need suffer from such problems again.

 

However, clawing away for answers in a singular book, talking to the sky and talking to sheep will get you no-where.

[Amethyst]

Depression has NOTHING to do with personal weakness. That is a myth. It's caused by chemical imbalances in the brain.

 

As someone who has had close friends suicide and could have died in a fire because my roommate suicided by setting fire to a townhome I lived in, this is a pet issue of mine.

 

There is help available. You can get it. Go to a doctor. Get counseling. At least do something. But don't think of it as a weakness, this is the reason a lot of people commit suicide -- they don't get help because they mistakenly think they can pull out of it without help.

 

It is NOT a weakness on your part, and I am really, really tired of people who insinuate that sort of thing.

[Merlinfmct87]

So you realise, Depression is a curse of the weak. Once you realise that any state of mind can be forced into a better one with sheer willpower alone, then you can do it for yourself, and you never need suffer from such problems again.

 

However, clawing away for answers in a singular book, talking to the sky and talking to sheep will get you no-where.

 

 

Depression has NOTHING to do with personal weakness. That is a myth. It's caused by chemical imbalances in the brain.

 

As someone who has had close friends suicide and could have died in a fire because my roommate suicided by setting fire to a townhome I lived in, this is a pet issue of mine.

 

There is help available. You can get it. Go to a doctor. Get counseling. At least do something. But don't think of it as a weakness, this is the reason a lot of people commit suicide -- because they don't get help.

I have to echo this response. I also wish to add that depression is caused by circumstances beyond that person's control. It's not that they are weak-willed, it is not that they are just not capable of 'sucking it up,' there is always a genuine, real cause to this that cannot simply be willed away or swept under a rug and forgotten about. You, Manta, are either utterly ignorant on this topic or deeply malevolent in urging people not to get help.

 

I too have had very close friends who have been neck-deep in this. It's a nightmare. And it is [/b]NOT[/b] just in their heads... anymore than a gunshot wound can be 'willed away.'

 

Merlin

[LosingMyReligion]

That second chance program is, pardon my french, really fucked up. Why didn't they just call it what it really was...Prison!

 

Kelly, I am thankful that you were able to get out of it with your sanity intact. You are a strong person to have endured that kind of sick and demented torcher.

 

 

 

 

 

This was my school.

http://www.ecseagles.com/page.aspx?id=105471

 

And this was my church.

http://www.centralchurch.com/

 

All this till I was 14.

When I was 14 I fell in love with an ECS senior who’d just gotten out of a rehab center called ”Second Chance”…a rehab funded and supported by both my church and my school.

To qualify for this rehab, all a parent needed was a *suspicion* that their kid was smoking pot or tobacco, or whatever. So the kid was dropped off, stuck in a room with nothing but a bible for 3 months, and escorted by an graduating rehaber to the bathroom with the graduater holding the belt loop of the pants the whole time, no speaking allowed.

If you’re “good” those 3 months, then you go to phase 2, where you get to hear sermons once a day, but still are not allowed to speak to anyone for yet another 3 months.

Mess up once, and you’re back to the start of phase one, isolation for 3 more months.

It’s a long story after that, but let’s just say that Second Chance was extremely abusive and brainwashy.

Average graduation time was 4 years.

The kids in Second Chance went to ECS but weren’t allowed to speak to anyone.

Get caught talking to one of the “regular students” once, and you’re back to phase one, solitary confinement.

 

Anyway, when I was 14, I started getting into heated theological debates with the youth pastor.

Now, I should mention that the church is one of those mega-churches with thousands of members. And I happen to sing very well, and was kinda the “star”. When I was 7, I started singing solos on Sundays for thousands of people, which really gave me a warped sense of ego, truth be told.

I loved the church and the church loved me, from the pastor to the Sunday school teachers to the other kids with whom I was quite popular.

I actually thought, when I was arguing with the youth pastor, that he would either have a reasonable explanation, or see the fallacies of the church’s stance on some of this stuff and reconsider.

Maybe pass the message up or something.

 

I was told “You’re letting the devil guide your thinking, and we’re going to start praying for you”.

 

Uh-oh. There went my social life. “Kelly is under Satanic attack!” the rumor spread.

Then I fall in love with poor ol’ Second Chance boy and I start to see the way this stuff works. I’m 15 and pissed and tell my parents to enroll me in public school. Still Christian, I drift into the world of “liberal Christendom” which I know my former fundie self sees as “Not a real Christian”, but whatever.

My working theory for a while is that right-wing-fundamentalism must be the Whore of Babylon.

 

At 20 I’m hit by the darkest of depressions and loose my marbles for a few months, but come out of it a charismatic.

(How that worked out involved a charismatic friend, long story).

I’ve finally had The Born Again Experience I never actually had as an Evangelical.

(I used to want to walk down the isle every Sunday at “the invitation”, even though I’d done it already. I never had “The Experience“ before.)

 

Anyhow, so the new Pentecostal church pisses me off eventually, too, after my mental health stabilizes.

Back into the world of liberal Christenndom, (churchless) where I remain for 6 years.

 

Last year, it hit me.

I *was* brainwashed. I thought I made it out, but I didn’t.

*None* of Christianity actually makes sense.

Over the course of one day, it all came to me. There is no God. I’ve been deluding myself.

It was humbling.

But now I’m free of that bizarre little messianic cult.

I’m free of the monthly “crisis of faith depressions” I’ve been plagued with my whole life.

I’m free of the intellectual stagnation I inflicted upon myself.

I’m finally free.

[kellyb]

Kelly,

 

Did you in your depression ever get to the point you started to question what reality was? I still suffer bouts with depression. I am sure I scare my wife, but I am glad I travel for a living because my wife does not have to see me in one of those funks where I am in a zone where nothing seems real. Sorry to keep questioning.

Oh, yeah!

Especially when you're in the middle of making a mental shift like deconversion. That IS questioning reality!

When you're Christian, god IS part of your reality. The most important part.

And Christianity teaches you clever ways to not see the blindingly obvious fact that the christian god can not exist.

So you have 'reality' on one side saying god is a lie, and your 'christian thinking' on the other, and the ne'er the two shall meet.

It is really scary and freaky for a while.

For me, the "christian side" kept insisting I was falling for a satanic lie, which was terrifying...I also felt guilty because I thought I was somehow breaking a promise to god...the promise that I would never disbelieve...

I'm felling kinda down just writing about it...lol...

THAT is how well that brainwashing shit works.

[sparkyone]

Kelly,

 

Did you in your depression ever get to the point you started to question what reality was? I still suffer bouts with depression. I am sure I scare my wife, but I am glad I travel for a living because my wife does not have to see me in one of those funks where I am in a zone where nothing seems real. Sorry to keep questioning.

Oh, yeah!

Especially when you're in the middle of making a mental shift like deconversion. That IS questioning reality!

When you're Christian, god IS part of your reality. The most important part.

And Christianity teaches you clever ways to not see the blindingly obvious fact that the christian god can not exist.

So you have 'reality' on one side saying god is a lie, and your 'christian thinking' on the other, and the ne'er the two shall meet.

It is really scary and freaky for a while.

For me, the "christian side" kept insisting I was falling for a satanic lie, which was terrifying...I also felt guilty because I thought I was somehow breaking a promise to god...the promise that I would never disbelieve...

I'm felling kinda down just writing about it...lol...

THAT is how well that brainwashing shit works.

I can really identify with this because I went through depression for several years off and on until I finally started deconverting and realizing I'd been taught a lot of lies as a child and into adulthood. In my case, I was afraid or unwilling to seek professional help, and the pastor was against psychologists and psychiatrists. That contributed to it continuing. When I realized that hell was just a teaching made up to scare people alot of the depression started lifting. I was also pretty obsessive about certain religious teachings and that fueled the depression. I also was worried that I was breaking promises, and that was reinforced by things I heard at church during that time. I'm just so glad that I stuck with it and gradually the fear has gone the way of nightmares, just faded away. I also am able to recognize the early warning signs of depression and can do things to keep it from getting worse. You're going to keep getting better, too. Just hang in there when it gets tough, Burned out and Kelly.

 

Sparkyone

[kellyb]

Well, I'm officially 2 years out of Christianity now, and the whole "What is reality?" phase is long gone. The depressions are totally gone, no more feeling like my grasp on reality is thin, etc. I really do think the "cognative dissonance" of religion was messing me up before. I'm feeling very cozy as a "weak atheist". It's actually meaningful to me, like being a Christian used to be. And not forcing myself to believe illogical things has just made life easier all around.

 

The waves of fear have gone, the visions of hell have passed. I'm officially deconverted.

[Robbobrob]

I can totally relate to the crisis of faith depressions and intellectual stagnation (which I was vaguely aware of even when I was Christian).

 

When already annoyed in rush hour traffic, I find I prefer to project my anger on Christian radio. Better to yell at the Fundie on the airwaves than the idiot driver (usually with the fish on the bumper) cutting me off.

 

Anyway, this morning's sermon was all about this. She called it something like being "out in the desert or wilderness." See, you are not supposed to always be on the mountain top with God, according to the preacher. Sometimes, even the most rabid Fundie finds him or herself in the desert. Fortunately, Jesus was stuck in the wilderness for many a day too...so buck up buckaroo, it's just a phase all True Christians face.

 

Course, the desert was painted by the preacher as a barren and empty place to be. No one around for miles and miles. And no water. And no water. Oh, and she mentioned there was no water in the desert. (Must have mentioned that about 3 or 4 times in a row). It was painful to hear her fumble through her sermon....even though she must have had it all written out.

 

Basically her advice to everyone who feels depressed and stagnant....you'll come around back to God eventually.

 

Now how can you beat that for advice to live on?

[Aqua Kitty]

To qualify for this rehab, all a parent needed was a *suspicion* that their kid was smoking pot or tobacco, or whatever. So the kid was dropped off, stuck in a room with nothing but a bible for 3 months, and escorted by an graduating rehaber to the bathroom with the graduater holding the belt loop of the pants the whole time, no speaking allowed.

If you’re “good” those 3 months, then you go to phase 2, where you get to hear sermons once a day, but still are not allowed to speak to anyone for yet another 3 months.

Mess up once, and you’re back to the start of phase one, isolation for 3 more months.

It’s a long story after that, but let’s just say that Second Chance was extremely abusive and brainwashy.

Average graduation time was 4 years.

The kids in Second Chance went to ECS but weren’t allowed to speak to anyone.

Get caught talking to one of the “regular students” once, and you’re back to phase one, solitary confinement.

 

Good grief!!!!! How can treatment like that be even remotely legal? This sounds like fodder for a Sixty Minutes exposé.

 

Congratulations on your escape kellyb!!

[Mongo]

So you realise, Depression is a curse of the weak. Once you realise that any state of mind can be forced into a better one with sheer willpower alone, then you can do it for yourself, and you never need suffer from such problems again.

 

However, clawing away for answers in a singular book, talking to the sky and talking to sheep will get you no-where.

Manta,

 

Presuming you are an ECer since you are here...

 

I highly recommend that you re-evaluate your "If anything goes wrong, it's YOUR fault" philosophy that you inherited from christendom.

 

I don't think that kind of Pollyanna advice is kind or gentle to those whose conditions are beyond attitude - something we can't know without a diagnosis from a professional.

 

Mongo