Guest Emerson Posted May 2, 2006 Share Posted May 2, 2006 I was taught that the snake that tempted eve was really satan. But if the garden of eden was paradise or whatever, then how could satan have been there in the form of a snake? If the snake wasn't satan, then what motivation did the snake have for tempting eve? Christians please make your pov, I'd like to know what you honestly think about this. Thank you. Note to the sarcastic: Yes let's beat this horse even more to death! Muahahaha! End of Note Yeah in all seriousness I'm just curious, all right?!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fweethawt Posted May 2, 2006 Share Posted May 2, 2006 It was okay then because Satan wasn't evil yet. He didn't become evil until Adam and Eve introduced evil into the world and since Satan was here when they did it he became evil too and grew horns an a tail an all that evil kind of stuff, you know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurisaz Posted May 2, 2006 Share Posted May 2, 2006 I was taught that the snake that tempted eve was really satan. But if the garden of eden was paradise or whatever, then how could satan have been there in the form of a snake? If the snake wasn't satan, then what motivation did the snake have for tempting eve? Expect that to turn out roughly as "logical" as the claim to gawd's omnipotence when compared to this... And the LORD was with Judah; and he drave out the inhabitants of the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron. Remember, if you feel bothered by jehoover, make sure you got a spare tank or two to jump in. Poor jehoover will be scared shitless and you'll sleep well ever after! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Padreko Posted May 2, 2006 Share Posted May 2, 2006 Do you want me to decapitate the horse and leave the head in your bed when you wake up? Why you always gotta ask these crazy ass questions... Huh? You wanna fight? Bring it on man? I will fuck you up... Just Kidding... Ok, as I understand it The Lawid had kicked Lucifier's punk ass along with 1/3 of the other sexy as hell angels out of heaven. So you can imagine that they'd be pretty evil and pissed off at that juncture in their luminescent careers. So the Lawid has initiated his plan to exterminate evil from the universe by creating man, knowing that the fall would occur and turmoil and choas would rule the world until Jesus would come and save our asses. From this event people would know what would happen if they pissed him off ever again - and ofcourse we always learn from our mistakes.. lol To answer your question though, the garden of eden was indeed paradise; however that doesn't mean it would remain invunerable to all those who are evil. The implementation of the tree of the knowledge of good and EVIL should make that clear. Essentially, the tree was an evil presence in the garden. So logically, satan's personal disposition towards god would be irrelevent. And yes that means the snake was satan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Emerson Posted May 2, 2006 Share Posted May 2, 2006 Do you want me to decapitate the horse and leave the head in your bed when you wake up? Why you always gotta ask these crazy ass questions... Huh? You wanna fight? Bring it on man? I will fuck you up... haha I love your sarcasm. Yes I always gotta ask these crazy unanswerable questions. hehe. Let's go to the matresses! lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amanda Posted May 7, 2006 Share Posted May 7, 2006 I was taught that the snake that tempted eve was really satan. But if the garden of eden was paradise or whatever, then how could satan have been there in the form of a snake? If the snake wasn't satan, then what motivation did the snake have for tempting eve? Christians please make your pov, I'd like to know what you honestly think about this. Thank you. Note to the sarcastic: Yes let's beat this horse even more to death! Muahahaha! End of Note Yeah in all seriousness I'm just curious, all right?!! Hi Emerson! IMHO, I think this is all a metaphor/allegory/fable. If ignorance is bliss, then I suppose that was paradise then. A focus on good and evil was probably the spark of civilization for their relatively new socialization process, and the forbidden fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil was 'condemnation'. I suppose the ultimate purpose is to create overcomers, and now an awareness to these issues put them into a new light for evaluation. Hey, they didn't have TV nor the internet in those days... I guess this is what they did for entertainment and enlightenment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dhampir Posted May 7, 2006 Share Posted May 7, 2006 I think the idea that this was a simple allegory came about when it became clear that this story was too absurd to be universally recieved. At any rate, if this story is allegory, then the stage for the passion of christ is not set, as there is really no catalyst for irredeemable sin. Basically, the GOE story is true, or Jesus was killed for nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willybilly30 Posted May 7, 2006 Share Posted May 7, 2006 i never could understand that. why was the snake allowed in the garden and the tree put their to begin with. didn't god know what would happen? one of the many biblical stories that don't make sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MQTA Posted May 7, 2006 Share Posted May 7, 2006 if the house of cards is built on water.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanInPA Posted May 7, 2006 Share Posted May 7, 2006 It's been a while so forgive me if my memoriy's fuzzy. In some ancient religious myths, the serpent was simply the giver of knowledge, not a "bad guy". In others it lied to A&E by telling them that the tree of knowledge was actually the tree of (eternal) life, and himself eating from the tree of life , thus stealing eternal life from humans. Because snakes shed their skin, some primitive people thought they were "born again" (and again and again) and did not die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IAm_Lucifer Posted May 8, 2006 Share Posted May 8, 2006 I was just discussing this with someone last night. There was something that was on my mind that I really want to know, maybe it's a stupid question to you guys. When satan was kicked out of heaven was that before or after Adam and Eve were created. If you answer this please give me a bible verse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted May 8, 2006 Share Posted May 8, 2006 Hmm... I don't think the Bible is clear ot that point. Guess not all answers are in there after all... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amanda Posted May 8, 2006 Share Posted May 8, 2006 It's been a while so forgive me if my memoriy's fuzzy. In some ancient religious myths, the serpent was simply the giver of knowledge, not a "bad guy". Dan In PA, that's what I thought too! I was also under the impression his character represented that which helps us weed out our disrespectful behavior. I thought he was NOT a bad 'guy' either. BTW, Satan is nothing real... just a 'principle' represented as a snake in this story, IMHO. Because snakes shed their skin, some primitive people thought they were "born again" (and again and again) and did not die. Wow... I look at these stories as metaphors. This is the first time it has been pointed out to me that it is an obvious event, snakes shedding their skins! I think skin is suppose to be a metaphor for our carnal nature too... for things like lust, tendencies toward drunkeness, lying, and stealing. Maybe the snake was chosen for the story because he is the one that obviously showed he did this on a regular basis? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amanda Posted May 8, 2006 Share Posted May 8, 2006 At any rate, if this story is allegory, then the stage for the passion of christ is not set, as there is really no catalyst for irredeemable sin. Basically, the GOE story is true, or Jesus was killed for nothing. Dhampir, IMHO, the knowledge of good and evil gave people the ability to judge... which can be a good thing. However, when they use it to judge others to condemnation, as did A&E... this is what kills the condemned emotionally/spiritually, and causes the condemner to evade their own responsibilities to the situation. Not good. The character of Jesus, and the story of the cross just showed principles that end condemnation, therefore emotional/spiritual death. The crucifiction emphasized the degree that we must forgive, without condoning or excusing the behaviour, through the concept of grace. Grace just says that EVERYONE is doing their best, they know not what they do, and how can we condemn anyone for not doing better than their best? Some say Jesus never existed, and I hope they are right when it comes to the story of the crucifiction. Perhaps that's just an allegory too, IDK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toxic Posted May 8, 2006 Share Posted May 8, 2006 Does anyone know if "scripture" says that it was the Devil that tempted Eve? I thought in Genesis it just says that it was the serpent which was more crafty than any other animal. (suppose it must have been if it could talk!) I think xtians just assume that it was the devil. It reminds me of this preacher who was trying to be funny when he said "Adam blamed Eve, Eve blamed the serpent and the serpent didn't have a leg to stand on!" Ha-de-fucking-ha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lycorth Posted May 8, 2006 Share Posted May 8, 2006 I was taught that the snake that tempted eve was really satan. But if the garden of eden was paradise or whatever, then how could satan have been there in the form of a snake? Even though there's no direct mention of the snake actually being Satan, it's still taught that way. Either or, the real reason the snake/Satan was in the Garden was that the writer of the Genesis myth needed an antagonist to propel the plot. Adam and Eve wouldn't have "sinned" of their own accord without an outside force, and Yahooweh couldn't have been that force since he's all-good, so a bad guy had to be invented. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willybilly30 Posted May 9, 2006 Share Posted May 9, 2006 in gnostic scriptures the snake is christ trying to give people knowledge and eat the tree and jehovah is the false god trying to prevent it. but the tradional view of christians is its satan. i heard a much more bizare story once but its not found anywhere to my knowledge the snakes a lover eve cheated with. anyone ever heard that one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lycorth Posted May 9, 2006 Share Posted May 9, 2006 i heard a much more bizare story once but its not found anywhere to my knowledge the snakes a lover eve cheated with. anyone ever heard that one? Eve was into bestiality? Given the rest of the Babble, it seems plausible to me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtheistMommy Posted May 9, 2006 Share Posted May 9, 2006 I was taught that the snake that tempted eve was really satan. But if the garden of eden was paradise or whatever, then how could satan have been there in the form of a snake? If the snake wasn't satan, then what motivation did the snake have for tempting eve? Christians please make your pov, I'd like to know what you honestly think about this. Thank you. Note to the sarcastic: Yes let's beat this horse even more to death! Muahahaha! End of Note Yeah in all seriousness I'm just curious, all right?!! Because it was all part of god's divine plan. The poor devil was nothing more than a pawn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Emerson Posted May 9, 2006 Share Posted May 9, 2006 in gnostic scriptures the snake is christ trying to give people knowledge and eat the tree and jehovah is the false god trying to prevent it. but the tradional view of christians is its satan. i heard a much more bizare story once but its not found anywhere to my knowledge the snakes a lover eve cheated with. anyone ever heard that one? I haven't heard of that, but I've heard of the story of Lilith. Its another jewish myth, in this version of paradise, Lilith was the first wife of Adam and she was made of dirt like he was. Anyway, he wouldn't let her be on top during sex and so they broke up because she wanted to be on top, the rest of the story is just bizarre...Lilith becomes a she-demon, gets out of paradise, Adam then gets Eve, Lilith ends up being chased by angels/demons, etc. Weird story, weirder than in the xtian bible. Lilith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willybilly30 Posted May 9, 2006 Share Posted May 9, 2006 they thought the snake was a person and just called a snake. i guess they are twisting storys to make it make sense. i heard a much more bizare story once but its not found anywhere to my knowledge the snakes a lover eve cheated with. anyone ever heard that one? Eve was into bestiality? Given the rest of the Babble, it seems plausible to me when i started reading lost books of the bible and stuff like that i seen so many versions of the creation story i have heard of lilith too. you start too wonder what the original was. in gnostic scriptures the snake is christ trying to give people knowledge and eat the tree and jehovah is the false god trying to prevent it. but the tradional view of christians is its satan. i heard a much more bizare story once but its not found anywhere to my knowledge the snakes a lover eve cheated with. anyone ever heard that one? I haven't heard of that, but I've heard of the story of Lilith. Its another jewish myth, in this version of paradise, Lilith was the first wife of Adam and she was made of dirt like he was. Anyway, he wouldn't let her be on top during sex and so they broke up because she wanted to be on top, the rest of the story is just bizarre...Lilith becomes a she-demon, gets out of paradise, Adam then gets Eve, Lilith ends up being chased by angels/demons, etc. Weird story, weirder than in the xtian bible. Lilith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RHEMtron Posted May 9, 2006 Share Posted May 9, 2006 nowhere in the bible does it say the snake in the garden was satan. most christians assume that it is satan because that is what they are taught. the only reason why satan is believed to be the snake is because of this one line: Revelation 20:2And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, christians assume "that old serpent," mean satan was the snake in the garden. they never think that serpent can refer to him being called a dragon. if one actually uses their brain to read genesis, it says "the serpent was more crafty that any beast on the field," which indicates the snake was just an animal, who was just a little bit smarter. and again, if one keeps reading, it says that the snake was cursed by god "more than all cattle, and more than every beast on the field; on your belly you will go, and dust you will eat all the days of your life;" if this was really satan, how was he able to walk up with jesus up the mountain? in Job, how was he able to go "to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it." if he was cursed to crawl on his belly all his days? check it: Let's Take a Look at Satan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amanda Posted May 9, 2006 Share Posted May 9, 2006 nowhere in the bible does it say the snake in the garden was satan. most christians assume that it is satan because that is what they are taught. the only reason why satan is believed to be the snake is because of this one line: Revelation 20:2And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, christians assume "that old serpent," mean satan was the snake in the garden. they never think that serpent can refer to him being called a dragon. if one actually uses their brain to read genesis, it says "the serpent was more crafty that any beast on the field," which indicates the snake was just an animal, who was just a little bit smarter. and again, if one keeps reading, it says that the snake was cursed by god "more than all cattle, and more than every beast on the field; on your belly you will go, and dust you will eat all the days of your life;" if this was really satan, how was he able to walk up with jesus up the mountain? in Job, how was he able to go "to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it." if he was cursed to crawl on his belly all his days? check it: Let's Take a Look at Satan RHEMtron, surprisingly... you're right about the serpent not being referred to as Satan/Devil! IMHO, these were just fables to teach a lesson/moral. It even suggests this in the NT in Titus 1:14 Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth. IMHO, the snake may not have been seen as a little smarter, however it may have been seen as more devious. The snake sneaks up on you, when you least expect it, and bites you with a venomous delivery. Again, just a metaphor, just as the tree of the knowledge of good and evil is. I made the association with the snake to Satan, because Satan (another metaphor) is only an adversary to our carnal nature (lust, stealing, lying, etc.)... 'he' tempts it, and if we act on it, we get the natural repercussions of those actions till we choose not to do it any more. The serpent was also given this job. As man was made from the dust, carnal nature, then God blew his spirit into him. The snake is to eat the dust (carnal nature) for the rest of his life. It seems the 'condemnation' was the 'forbidden fruit'. Adam condemned/blamed Eve and God, and Eve condemned the snake. It seems that man has been blaming someone else, God, or the devil ever since, instead of taking his own accountability and responsibility to the situation, which IMO is the moral of the story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RHEMtron Posted May 12, 2006 Share Posted May 12, 2006 smile.gif RHEMtron, surprisingly... you're right about the serpent not being referred to as Satan/Devil! surprisingly?!?! geez are you saying everything i always say is wrong? like you know... when i say youre beautiful, smart, funny... hahaha jk dont hurt me! i'd like to think adam was a romantic. he knew eve was damned for eating the fruit. so in his head he thought "damn... i dont want her to suffer 'death' alone, so ill eat the apple too... and cause it'll keep the doctor away." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amanda Posted May 12, 2006 Share Posted May 12, 2006 smile.gif RHEMtron, surprisingly... you're right about the serpent not being referred to as Satan/Devil! surprisingly?!?! geez are you saying everything i always say is wrong? like you know... when i say youre beautiful, smart, funny... hahaha jk dont hurt me! i'd like to think adam was a romantic. he knew eve was damned for eating the fruit. so in his head he thought "damn... i dont want her to suffer 'death' alone, so ill eat the apple too... and cause it'll keep the doctor away." RHEM!!!! No!!!!! No!!!!! No!!!!! Surprising me because of my previous held belief, as I had assumed it was the devil too! No... I DO give you the utmost credibility! Actually... it's great, IMO, to see a guy who recognizes and appreciates romance! What a rare and wonderful attribute! Maybe you don't want to share your secret with the guys, so you can keep all the beautiful ladies for yourself! :wink: Or then again, maybe you're collecting these ladies as you go... I think that what you are saying is part of the mythology/allegory in that Eve did die... and Adam willingly went in to death to save her, saving her through his character Jesus, who is coming back to marry her... which is all of us collectively as one body, manifesting heaven on earth as our honeymoon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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