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  1. As I have advised dependent minors who must still obey their parents, adopt the role of anthropologist. Study the tribe and its behaviors and belief systems. Observe the hierarchy structure and try to discern outliers in the group. Write a paper with your findings and bring it here.
    5 points
  2. Ask God to visit you in person for a chat. That's the least he could do if he wants a relationship with you. If it's 'above' his status to come down and visit the lowly human beings then he aint worth it (or isn't real). If Christians live in God's mansion forever after they leave this earth then a quick visit while you're still alive is not too much to ask. If God isnt real, then the 'enemy' definitely isnt real. Who is more powerful, God or Satan? Why would God allow Satan to trick you? Why would God leave you in such a state that you can't be sure that he really exists at all?
    5 points
  3. Hey, people. I'm almost 6 months out of 5 years of prison. Still trying to get used to being free. I'm trying to get my finances in order, so I can get back on my own feet. Unfortunately living with my Pentecostal parents. I don't want to come out as atheist yet. I have few friends left after prison, and I am scared to lose them and my family for my choice. I need to, though. I really don't know how to other than to come out and say it. My life is currently in shambles, so I'd rather wait before I say anything. Once I have a place of my own and new friends.
    4 points
  4. Hi Salemite. Sorry to hear about your regrets. Give yourself time (but not too long) to grieve what could have been. . .and then make a plan to achieve some personal goals. Do you really have to choose between furthering your education/career and your marriage/children or is this a false choice? Perhaps tell your husband that you supported him and his career and now its his turn to do the same for you?
    4 points
  5. When I was 6 years old, I asked my mother what hell would be like. With the sincere intensity that only a fundamentalist, evangelical, pentecostal sadist can inflict, she told me to imagine the absolute worst pain I could ever endure and that would only be a bee sting compared to hell. Eyes inflamed, she told this to a (vividly imaginative) 6 year old boy. She enjoyed inflicting pain on others; and still does. For her, it is a means of expressing the misery she suffers herself. It is a means of controlling others because she feels out of control herself. She inflicts guilt on others to k
    4 points
  6. I had to look it up, Alma is from the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. Bonefide Mormon. I thought David Fitzgerald's The Complete Heretic's Guide to Western Religion was great look at the Mormons and their history. Interesting book - lots of stuff the Mormon church would like to sweep under the rug.
    4 points
  7. Oh look someone who doesn't understand science. This is going to be a great conversation. Apparently we should all still believe in the flat earth because accepting the evidence that the earth is a sphere is "moving goalposts" SMH
    4 points
  8. Salemite, I can't imagine anything I could say to be of value to you, but in my own situation, very different than your own, I see similarities. No one tells you at age 18, or 25, or 35 that there comes a point if you live so long where your regrets begin to stack up and loom so large behind you. The hope is that all the good things, the achievements, experiences, and memories you accumulate will outweigh the regrets. And this is such a part of the natural human experience. As the church imposes such a range of expectations and 'standards' upon your life, wit
    3 points
  9. Fuego, thanks for your response. There are old remnants of the past ways but most of it is entirely gone. I am not willing to leave my marriage of 25 years mainly because I believe in change (would never have thought I would be agnostic 10 years ago!). I think it takes time to change the way we see ourselves and the world around us. I love him and he loves me. We are working towards a more equitable relationship. We talk a lot about it. I think it is hard to leave an old system behind that served him so well and made him feel good. Eugene39 thank you for your kind words. I a
    3 points
  10. Hi Salemite. I'll be 50 next year and I de-converted when I was 39. I have so many regrets, and feel like every big life decision that I made prior to de-converting was the wrong one. Since de-converting, I've been divorced, remarried, and now live on the other side of the country, and these were good decisions. My (now) wife similarly has lots of regrets as her life followed much the same path as mine did. (Coincidentally, we met here on Ex-C.) The "would have, should have" battle is strong for both of us at times. Just the other day, I was telling her that I wish I could just erase the quart
    3 points
  11. Damn, the gaslighting is strong with your husband. Here is my opinion: If your life is shared, so is the wealth, period. If not, he's in it for himself and doesn't really consider you equal or all that valuable (except where he wants you to be). That's a personality trait that the religion fosters and calls right, because the religion was invented by abusive control freaks. You've left the religion, but the roles still control your life it seems. I have friends who decided after years of marriage and kids to call it quits because to do otherwise would be intolerable. One said that
    3 points
  12. Someday through viable DNA extraction methods maybe one or more of these extinct species might be brought back to existence by such great preservation like this ice-age bear, Jurassic park revisited.
    3 points
  13. We are on the same page and we are both much happier now that neither of us is striving for the impossible in vain.
    3 points
  14. Hi Ghost! Welcome to our community, and welcome back to freedom! I definitely recommend not coming out to your parents for now. The “atheist” word especially scares the bejesus out of many people, not just devout religious types. I hope though that at least you don’t have to pretend to be a believer. But right now you’ve got to prioritize becoming self-sufficient. The good news is you can do all the atheisting you want here with us. You can be yourself here. Feel free to tell us about your life, your deconversion, whatever you want to share. Vent as you need to.
    3 points
  15. In the Nazarene church where I first attended in the 80s (during the strong revival of belief in demons, pushed by campus groups like Maranatha, and then by seemingly conservative believers), they had a teaching series on Spiritual Warfare. The pastor embraced the teachings as biblical and began talking openly about demons, whereas previously he held that they were more mental illness. At a Sunday morning service a woman let out a scream like a caged tiger combined with tearing metal, flipped out of the pew backwards and landed in the lap of my buddy. The pastor began quietly doing spiritual w
    3 points
  16. what you are saying makes sense. and about omnipresent. there are many findings in Science these days i have heard about that might be very good for more Christians to know about. have you read this? i think this is from a great sounding book that I've not gotten to read but have heard about. i think, because i am just quoting from this person's website.. ~~From the book, “The Sacredness of Questioning Everything,” by David Dark. (Although the publisher says the free audio version of the book is no longer available for download, I just tried it, and the down
    3 points
  17. Just in case... Our Dark Lord Lucifer, Please send us some real christians whom we might lead astray with the logic, reason, and science that you have so benevolently bestowed upon us to deceive the brethren in your great and terrible war against the eternal souls of the faithful. We, your faithful servants, tired of consuming the flesh of babies and virgins, beseech you to give us the souls of christians for our bread and their blood for our wine. We will ensure that untold numbers of lurkers will be your reward and will march beside you in your dark army against Michael an
    3 points
  18. https://www.joh.cam.ac.uk/nobel-prize-physics-awarded-st-johns-scientist-black-hole-formation-work On a personal note I'm very pleased to see this, not just because he's a fellow Englishman, but because I've found his work fascinating. The above prize and the kudos that goes with it has no effect whatsoever on the unfeasible cosmological arguments used by the Christian apologist William Lane Craig. Penrose is being rewarded for his scientific paper of 1965, that deals ONLY with the collapse of very massive stars into black holes. Cr
    3 points
  19. What a glib response. Truth (with a capital "T") is not a matter of popular opinion and to treat it as such is simply less than honest. History is replete with instances of the majority believing things that were later shown to be not true. Galileo's relationship with the Catholic Church ought to be proof enough of that. But I'll bite: you do realize the question I posed regarding the schism is still not solved right? The Roman Catholic Church and Orthodox churches (Eastern, Oriental, Russian, Greek, & others) still exist with billions of members between them and they have
    3 points
  20. Short of living with a fundy Christian who is in your face 24/7 you should be able to get away from it for some period of time. We've all been there where thoughts consume you and it seems like you can't get away. However, my advice is that if you are continually reading stuff online, or reading books, or engaging in conversations that you could otherwise walk away from then you are exacerbating the situation. Give yourself permission to just switch off. Turn off the computer/phone, don't talk to the Christian, go for a walk, do something you enjoy. I'd also suggest tal
    3 points
  21. I assume you mean in a figurative sense, not literally. Like Eugene said, stop focusing on it. Get out of the house and do something to completely distract yourself. Go to a zoo---out in nature. What you are doing is keeping you bogged down. Even if you are not suicidal yet, call a suicide hot line and tell them your feelings. And get an appointment at a mental health clinic ASAP. And don't drink coffee or use any stimulants or drugs until you can get a handle on yourself. And make sure you are eating okay. I don't normally recommend this, but right now it might help to eat some "comf
    3 points
  22. Oh, wow! I always wondered whether debates had an impact on audience members. I guess it does! I'm glad you came to your own conclusions and saw it for what it was! It takes a ton of courage to shift your worldview like that. Cudos!
    3 points
  23. The thing is that, historically speaking, abrahamic religions and others have "convinced" people mainly with violence of various ways. Threats, physical violence from low to torture to exile to death, legal oppression, humiliation of dissenters. The reason it "resisted" I think is because of violence not sincere conviction. Not saying that there would have been many more atheists, but without violence the lanscape would have probably been very very diverse. I mean why is Islam dominant in the middle east and christianity in Europe? And certain sects nonetheless? In most of the middle East Isla
    3 points
  24. Eh so long story short I'm being forced to go back to church and avoiding it is near impossible for reasons I will not go into. Whether or not I have to sit in the sermons is up to debate so if I can at least get out of those by helping in children's church might be possible. However, if I cannot, I've been thinking about taking notes on the sermon and then debunking them on here as something therapeutic. So for the next 7 weeks, the pastor has plans to use apologetics to explore the past "prophecies" in the Old Testament and use the New Testament to prove them. Basically shit in the Old Testa
    3 points
  25. ...And there you have it folks. Y'all were just never real christians. https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/no-true-scotsman
    3 points
  26. You can find people like that, but for the most part I find that non-believers will fess up to the underlying admission of uncertainty. Especially if pressed that far. Particles are taken as more objective than dark matter or multiverses. But at the end of the day, with something more objective like particles, it's the case of something existing that we still don't understand completely. Particle wave duality is one popular example. What is a particle of matter anyways? We don't yet fully understand the answer. I don't think the discussion is over based on that premise,
    3 points
  27. Some take intermissions. Some are way beyond any of that....
    3 points
  28. I called it! Just about every time people start asking where the apologist's are, synchronicity kicks in and someone shows up.
    3 points
  29. And in those cases, rather than adopt new ways interpreting christianity or local pagan myths, the people simply went into more non-religious secular directions. I assume you're alluding to secular northern Europe in the above? I do find it interesting though, that christianity could be reworked in ways that embrace, rather than deny the role of Platonic and gnostic influence on ancient christianity. Robert has worked out some interesting ways of embracing things like the christ myth theory, and atheism for that matter, while cruising along as a cultural christian. I have to hand
    3 points
  30. This is why thou shalt have no other Mods before me.
    3 points
  31. Bless your heart...
    3 points
  32. There’s no doubt that Eternal Life is the “killer app” that Christianity and other religions offer. No reason-based belief systems can offer that. Of course, what Christianity really offers is eternal bliss for a few and eternal torment for the many. Somehow almost all believers expect to be among the few. Many of us here have accepted or even embraced our mortality in exchange for the benefits of deconversion. I guess that’s because in the 21st Century, life here on earth can be pretty damn good (yes, even in 2020!) and many of us don’t need to count on the hereafter to rescue
    3 points
  33. By about the time people start asking questions like this, synchronicity kicks in and apologist's start showing up. It's been weird like that...
    3 points
  34. Hi Krys! I know that fear is an irrational thing, but sometimes a look at the long view can put things into their proper perspective. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extinction_event As far as we know there have been five major extinction events in Earth's 4.5 billion year history. Even the least of them dwarfs what's happening today. And after each one, when it seemed that life couldn't possibly recover... after a few million years it did. Even after... T H E G R E A T D Y I N G ...when 96% of all sea life and 70%
    3 points
  35. If you are familiar with my introduction and as mentioned in some of my posts you will know that I was a no doubter who was led away from the faith, nor did I experience any adverse life events or mistreatment at the hands of, or in the name of, christianity. Instead, I was a rock solid believer who had reached some uncomfortable, but necessary conclusions earlier in life, but in no way did these unusual - for a Southern Baptist - beliefs impair my belief in god or Jesus Christ. My descent into deconversion began in my quest to help my wife believe. She had questions - lots of que
    2 points
  36. I've been exercising lately; and people say my physical manifestation is starting to look a lot better.
    2 points
  37. Hi Salemite, thanks so much for opening up. It may be provocative, but I would be interested in your thoughts on the value you place on having your children. If you had focused on your career as you outline, then it is entirely possible that at your age you would now have no kids, or maybe only one. And juggling a career and family is often very stressful, with a range of risks. It used to be the case that children were seen as essential insurance for old age, but these days many people without children see self reliance as sufficient. Having a stable marriage and then having grandchildren
    2 points
  38. 'A force is a force, of course of course...' Except in this case???
    2 points
  39. The very people who have crammed these types of verses and threats down all of our throats over the years, being the morons in question who followed a false belief the entire time!!!! Time, times, and half a time, as it were. One world age. Two world ages. And half a world age. Covering the astrological ages of taurus, aries, pisces, and aquarius. Exactly "1/3" of the constellations that make up the total Great Year, or precession of the equinoxes. Time and again in revelation, 1/3 is mentioned. Four world ages equal 1/3 of the total 12 world ages in a Great Year cycle
    2 points
  40. And will likely only become even more so with time. From both the left and the right. The right is pretty liberal now compared to just a few decades ago. It’s slowly liberalizing with time. The secular game is a long game, it has to play out over the long haul. No one can force it on everyone. It has to run its Natural course generation by generation...
    2 points
  41. Tell us the part about if we don't believe in your sky fairies as you do we will be punished by them. That part is funny.
    2 points
  42. No, Christianchat_chatbot, "Jesus" is not perfect. That's just a story you tell one another so that you can justify the hideously immoral things you say about your fellow travellers on Earth -- creating a false dichotomy of a fake saviour with fake perfection versus real people with real (and frequently endearing) character flaws. If you want to talk to imaginary friends, knock yourself out -- but don't expect us to take you seriously.
    2 points
  43. John Steinguard announces his renouncement. Sights problem in Bible that rampant misogyny indicates books where written by, and in the interest of, ancient men of the time(s). Smart boy! I wonder how many of his fans will take note... https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/hawk-nelson-religion-christian-rock-songs-god-a9533286.html
    2 points
  44. Looks like we need another referral to a mental health center!
    2 points
  45. Josh, I see you made an even earlier comment that I still need to respond to, discussing my short video of the astronomy of precession. Will come back to that. For now, I have several comments on your analysis around the connection between the Yuga vision and the Second Coming. There is nothing I enjoy more than this type of serious conversation. I am presenting a very different form of second coming claim, totally excluding all supernatural and magical content. I imagine the idea of Jesus Christ as king of the world solely as a construction of secular philosophy.
    2 points
  46. Wait a sec, I asked for decent apologists... not fluffy bless us all ones. There I just proved God didn't send them!
    2 points
  47. In addition, Robert, Revelation has more to do with the earth being 'made new' than it does shooting off to the 7th heaven that Paul was referring to and what the book of Enoch discloses about early christian beliefs. They were working off of the near eastern bronze age cosmology concept of the earth as a flat round disk, with layers of "heavens" above the flat round disk. Where these angels and demons would battle it out and where the gnostic jesus ideas outlined by Doherty and Carrier come into context. They had precession cosmology. But they did so from a pla
    2 points
  48. Maybe some of those not going to church due to the virus will enjoy the time away, and not go back. It will be TERRIBLE if some churches have financial problems and preachers have to get a real job!
    2 points
  49. Apologist's don't usually concede points in debates. No matter how far against the ropes you have them on any given point. I was getting very burnt out arguing with apologist's about the christ myth theory. The goals posts always seem to move further back every time you score a point by answering whatever their challenge happens to be. You mention Isis. Youtube's GodAlmighty did a long video citing primary source evidence (mainly graphic images) of the conception(s) of Horus. His youtube channel was flagged so hard that eventually it went down. I haven't checked to see if it ever went back up
    2 points
  50. While you may not lack for courage Leia, you don't seem to have gained any freedom from the god you hate so much. A slave who hates their master, but who can do nothing to set themselves free from him can have all the courage in the world. But their courage will not set them free. They will remain a slave, albeit a rebellious one. So long as they remain obsessed with vengeance, retribution and reprisals, this god has total power over them. I cannot speak for anyone else here, but as an atheist I have totally freed myself from
    2 points



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