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  1. 16 points
    Hi, all! Sorry if this isn't the best place to post this topic. Mods, feel free to move it. I promise I'll get around to an ex-timony, when it feels right. As for now, I just wanted to let everyone know that things are going pretty decent between Mr. ag_NO_stic and I regarding our faith differences. He is "unsure" to the point that he's not actively calling himself a Christian. Now he will still resist me on many points, but I have been REALLY making myself keep my opinions and rants to myself, not challenging him on belief stuff. When it does occasionally come up, I've been practicing and forcing self-discipline and not reacting out of emotion. This has done wonders! I think he also sees how content I am, as I've calmed with time, and how my new "beliefs" are not going anywhere. It helped in my case that he has never really been "up to fundamentalist" standards with his faith, his parents did NOT raise him like me so he doesn't have some of the wounds.....he doesn't understand some of my bitterness. But things are looking up as of now, fingers crossed! I just wanted to post this for those who know what's been going on with me and the husband, as well as give some encouragement to those with believing spouses. Show them the "fruits of the spirit" which ironically is just coming from yourself because you are in control of your actions. A calm and rational demeanor paired with facts/logic and not seeking out an argument all the time really has helped over time. He has also had some time to adjust to the changes and can see that I am still me, without being a pious asshole. I even got him to listen to little bit of Sam Harris and Christopher Hitchens and he chuckled a couple times, so it can't be long now! Cheers!
  2. 9 points
    Because he/she gets to escape the terrifying doctrine, myth and belief in hellfire that each and every one of us had to break free from. She gets to believe in the magical sky god that is 'all love'' and will protect and love her through all the disappointments of life. She gets to pray and believe that those prayers are heard by an invisible power that will change things through those prayers. Because she gets to believe in a glorious afterlife where she will meet all her loved ones and spend eternity dancing and singing and praising god. She/he gets to believe that the christian ''Santa'' is directing her life and will show her the right paths to take in life. Because it helps her to get out of bed every morning and have hope that all will go well because magical god will provide the strength to get through life's trials. She gets to hold on to this fairytale. And it helps to keep her happy. Because facing the cold, hard facts of the reality of life is too hard for most people. It's a survival mechanism..... Doesn't matter if it's true or not....
  3. 8 points
    Damn, I wish I were invisible instead of dreading the small talk. I wish I were transparent and not making this long walk. I'd really like to turn and leave; I'd really like to quit. but I take one "for the team" because my wife believes this shit. It's hard for me at home when she's in a Bible mood; harder still when I want out of church - not trying to be rude or angry, mean or petty - I just know I don't belong, and I'm a stranger to these people, though I'd been here all along. They just took me for granted - I showed up every week and sang the songs, and sometimes played, and talked in Christian-speak. They never knew I struggled because they never asked and nobody guessed a freaking thing if I just stuck to task. Then, for a while, I walked away - I made the choice to leave. I told my wife I'd had enough and refused to believe. A person here or there asked her where I'd been these days but she said she couldn't find the words and couldn't meet their gaze. I was angry - didn't understand why she couldn't tell the truth, Would it make me seem an enemy? A fool, insane, uncouth? Would I just be seen as selfish, childish, over-thinking and afraid and forgetful of the loving "sacrifice" that "Jesus" made? Or was she just afraid that all my reasons carried weight, that the desperation that's required for "faith" just came too late? Was she afraid to tell them that I no longer believed because she knew deep down inside that she had been deceived? I think so - the only thing she hangs onto these days is the "proof" that there are people "loving God" in helpful ways like serving poor and homeless folks and caring for the sick; I guess when "God" is absent, human beings do the tricks. Long story short, I started back - I wanted to belong, to once again take up the cross, the bible and the song I did it so that we could feel like family again instead of feeling so much on the outside looking in. What have I found since coming back and sitting in my place? Each same, same weekly greeting from each bright, smiling face and not an inch of depth, nor single word sincere; the God-talk keeps us sounding right, but protects from getting near. All I have to do is believe the lies I tell, about "praise God, I'm over-blessed" - pretending that I'm well as long as I keep parroting the same old loathing lies about how I'm a sinner, through happy, shining eyes. Well, today I couldn't take it - I couldn't stand the scene and I couldn't make the nonsense God-words sound like what they mean, so I turned and left again - fighting back a tear... ...must I return again, or will I learn to disappear?
  4. 8 points
    See, in my mind, that makes god an abuser. He demands I believe in him and all that entails (worship, etc...) or I will be subjected to horrific punishment. In human law, this is called extortion and we send people to prison for it. Real love is freely given. The kind of love god demands comes under the veil of threat. Christians like to say he gives people a choice, but this isn't a real choice just like Vito Corleone didn't give the movie producer a real choice when he put a gun to his head and told him to sign a contract. You might even argue that you've freely chosen, but you still are left to contend with the rest of us who are not given that free choice and that speaks directly to the character of your god.
  5. 8 points
    "What do you do with your guilt?" The Preacher asks, evangelists have for centuries used man's guilt and loathing for himself against him as one of the key recruitment tools. Why did the majority of men go on the Christian crusades, because they needed salvation, the self-destructive remorse of a life-time in a culture which promotes guilt-ridden thinking creates a cornucopia of debauched examples of behavior, as these men then first took to slaughtering Jews before going on their sacred crusade to reclaim the Holy Land from the Muslims. Even today, the supreme recruitment tool of ISIS and other terrorist networks, is to wield a person's shame and guilt to point them towards joining the Islamic State and the Jihad for Allah as the only way for them to atone for their sins. What is this guilt that we suffer from? The narrative self which is constantly talking in the back of each of our minds at all times of the day, can be turned into one's harshest critic. You've been alone with yourself all those times, and you can know if you're full of shit or not. Religion takes these narratives and then uses them as persuasive tools to suppress you and make you subservient to them. Apostasy becomes the worst sin, which means there is an embedded mental landmine for those who leave the faith that they are told that this very act is perhaps the worst sin of all and the worst punishment lies for such an act. The testimony of many here who still struggle with the fear of hell after losing their faith is a testament to the power of these mental landmines left behind in the wake of Christianity, a fearful and terrible worldview. You don't need the forgiveness of god, you are not some eternal unchanging thing, if you deplore something in you, work to change it or if it cannot be then accept it. Until one can come to truly accept themselves and have compassion for themselves, they will always have a vulnerability to religion, as it will tug and pull at the loneliness, the resentment and most of all guilt. It is not the truth. You are more interesting and beautiful than any of the religions ever imagined, all doctrines of original sin are bullshit.
  6. 8 points
    It's really hard to pick the dumbest belief set once you have looked into several popular religions. What these diverse belief systems have in common is that they are all just made up by crazy and/or manipulative, power hungry humans.
  7. 7 points
    Do you know why she first believed? I've found that going back to that will tell you why someone persists in believing deep down. For me, it was fear of demons after seeing an advert for the Exorcist movie. That plus I was superstitious and scared of several movie monsters. I was zealous for scripture for a few years prior to going to a church. When I finally started going to church, I also had friends for the first time and hugs from pretty girls. That was strong motivation on an emotional level, plus having people that were also zealous was encouraging. When other people also believe in your imaginary friend, it makes him seem much more real. During my deconversion, I revisited why I had first believed and recalled the Exorcist and realized I had made a childish decision to follow a life-changing path of belief in things that I didn't understand and hadn't researched. That is the case for nearly all believers. By the way, Herod likely didn't slaughter any toddlers in response to Jesus and Babylonian astrologers that came to Jerusalem. There is no evidence of such a slaughter, like there is no evidence of Jesus existing outside of these cult writings. The "prophecy" that is quoted from Jeremiah 31 is also out of context, and refers not to dead children but to kidnapped children. Rachel weeping for her children for they are no more becomes Rachel rejoicing because her children are returned to her. Just mentioning a person from history doesn't make the event described historical. It's like making a up story about Abraham Lincoln being a vampire hunter and saying it must be historical because Lincoln was real.
  8. 7 points
    Hi, Penny. I think it's cool of you to sign up because your friend asked you to, that's already way more decent of you than some friend responses many of us have experienced. Of course if it's your "wink wink" friend, we're cool with that too. Only god knows, right? Frankly, it took me losing my faith to realize how completely uneducated I was on what it is atheists actually believe. Like I thought I knew, but I just....didn't. So any "christian OWNS atheist" videos were always powerful to me because I believed the content of the video. Any atheist watching it just laughs at the complete lack of understanding on topics like objective morality, the history of the bible, the history of the church, science (in general). I encourage you to really educate yourself on where we're actually coming from before you attempt to evangelize, many of us used to spout the SAME STUFF you will be tempted to tell us. We're just over it. It's SO ANNOYING to have scripture spouted at us when it's literally more myth than anything else. It's SO ANNOYING to be talked down to as though "we've just yet to understand how god feels about suffering, but...we'll get there." It's SO ANNOYING to be evangelized to as though we don't know where you're coming from, when you in fact don't know where we're coming from. So yeah, we've already heard all your beliefs. Sit back and take it all in for a bit, listen to what we have to say. Also, what @yunea said.
  9. 7 points
    The first two years. Anger. At them and their lies. At myself for taking so long to totally figure it out. So many years lost. The next three years. Mental annoyance. Every day, exposed to 100s of religious buildings, signs, speech in the media, friends, social media. They were all memory trigger, being back bad memories, diverting me from truly enjoying the rest of my life. The last two years. Mostly at full recovery. The anger has mostly past, the triggers are not triggering. I go out and live and enjoy every day. I live in full confidence, and not "meekness" I speak with clarity. I deal, with ease, with those who I used to be. Happy. At ease. Zero anxiety. I have so much gratitude for my life now. It is a blast.
  10. 7 points
    The initial anger stage was the hardest for me, I was on my way to becoming a minister and was ready to dedicate my whole life to something which was a lie. All those hours of prayer I was alone and there was no one to hear my cries, besides myself. All the reading and investment that I put into learning it was to not, and all the advice from my mentors was rubbish. Its like being convinced you're the most badass architect in the world, and everyone around you agrees. Then you build the blueprint and see that it's structure is fucked up and everyone was wrong and you're left to pick up the pieces to somehow reassemble on your own. Its very lonely to go through this process alone, my wife and best friends all remained Christian, so my deconversion has largely happened in isolation. It is an experience that both alienates and liberates, though I have enjoyed it far more deeply and have become a totally different person as I deliberately put myself back together. Which means I don't have to be angry at a non-existent god anymore and I can see reality and its beauty for what it really is.
  11. 6 points
    Isaiah 45:7King James Version (KJV) I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things. God seems to allow his children to get shot up in his own house. https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/texas-church-shooting
  12. 6 points
    I hate to tell you this, but very few of those "friends" give a damn about you. Rather than speak about my own personal experience (which does support my previous statement), I will tell you about my grandmother's experience. Despite the fact that she continued to be a devout Christian, her church abandoned her when they could no longer use her. Read on..... My grandmother was a member of the same conservative Christian church for most of her adult life. She was very active in her church - she worked in the nursery every Sunday morning for several decades, helped cook hundreds of church dinners, accompanied her children and grandchildren on dozens of church trips, etc. She always tithed, and often gave extra for missions and special offerings. Her service to her church ended abruptly at the age of 73, when she broke her back in a car accident. Afterwards, for the last 10 years of her life, she was homebound and could not go to church because of this injury and declining health due to old age. Her mind was just as sharp as ever, and her faith was just as strong, but her body wore out a little more every day. Near the end, when she was in hospice care, she decided to plan her own funeral. We were all surprised when her funeral plans completely excluded her church and everyone associated with it. When we asked her, she explained. "For the past 10 years, NOT ONE person from my church has ever called me, come to visit me or sent me a note to tell me that they cared about me. Not one minister, not one deacon, not one of the church members who I worked with for all of those years and I thought were my friends. I worked very hard for them when they needed me, for many, many years. But when I needed them, they pretended that I didn't exist." "There was only one exception. One time an Assistant Pastor came by, only stayed for ten minutes, and spent the whole time telling me to 'remember my church in my will'". That was my grandmother's experience with her church "friends". When I became an ex-Christian, I contacted three of my Christian friends who I felt were truly my friends. We all agreed that we wanted to continue to be friends. We are still good friends, despite our theological differences, now, over 35 years later. So, when you "come out" as an ex-Christian, you will learn who your true friends are. They will care about you no matter what you believe. Don't worry about the rest. Their "friendship" is not worth having.
  13. 6 points
    Welcome to Ex-C. No, you don't have to be an Ex to hang out. Annoying Christian behavior? Generally anything under the umbrella of insisting (sometimes through force of law) that non-Christians comply with their religious beliefs. This would include efforts to teach Creationism as science rather than religion and Christian morality legislation. I could care less what people do on their own dime and time. Pray over dinner, I'll be respectful. Invite me to church, I'll politely decline. Tell me gays are going to Hell or insist the Lord's Prayer open our city council meeting, we have a problem. And please stop promoting the lie about how you're so persecuted; for example, there is no war on Christmas so just stop it.
  14. 6 points
    Welcome to the site. I'll tell you right off you're probably in the wrong section of the site. This area is not highly moderated and can be rough. You might want to try the rants section (even though it sounds worse than this one). The short answer to your question, for me, is evangelism in its many forms. mwc
  15. 6 points
    "You are more interesting and beautiful than any of the religions ever imagined, all doctrines of original sin are bullshit." Yes we are!! The moral code we can create for ourselves far exceeds the ones made by the indoctrinaters/programmers. Here is mine: I care about facts, empathy, and treating all people fairly. These ten words are far more potent for me than any ten commandments.
  16. 6 points
    Guilt is a very pernicious mental state, it not only is cognitively driven but it also is embedded in the wiring of your prefrontal cortex. You in a sense have shaped your brain according to Christianity and the latent emotional and cognitive content which you habituated as a Christian is coming back to haunt you. The good news, is that the brain has neuroplasticity and it can change over time through deliberate practice. This wasn't told to us when we were Christians of course, improvement was always from the angle of sanctification and repentance rather than viewing human beings as actually functioning via the brain. The good news, is you're aware these emotions and cognition are not reality, they reflect and unhealthy and untrue moral lens of the world. For me, there is no better practice to go the rest of the way in managing this than meditation. I used to think meditation and prayer were wasting time, just sitting there when you could be doing something more important. However, it turns out that your anterior cingulate which is responsible for your attention becomes more densely connected and your power over your attention transforms. The truth that we have to all see is that all cognition does not represent reality, it is these very rumination cycles that perpetuate our harm and keep us in these conditions so it is important to be more present and not lost in thought. This doesn't mean we're not thinking, I just do that intentionally now and not being totally lost in random conditions which spring to consciousness. I would also do Cognitive Behavioral Therapy which helps dig up cognitions which aren't true and replaces them with ones which are. That can go a long way to freeing you from guilt, as I needed something to replace the practices I previously had as a Christian, namely prayer. Which neurologically functions similarly to meditation. Hang in there! TS
  17. 6 points
  18. 6 points
    You do whatever your most satisfying sex partner wants if you're smart.
  19. 5 points
    Perhaps irrational people can. For those of us who are rational, though, there is simply no way to choose to believe something that is demonstrably false. We cannot do it. It is not and cannot be a choice.
  20. 5 points
    She's way too busy picking cherries. She doesn't have time to read her bible. You really haven't noticed? 🤣
  21. 5 points
    You are, again, stating that God is allowing these things to happen. Whether he "sends or causes" is irrelevant. You are just a typical apologetic, saying anything and everything to let your god off the hook. By supposedly allowing Satan to have dominion, to allow these things to happen, he is malevolent. End of story. No loving god would allow these things to happen. I know I'm talking to a brick wall when I say this, but I just cannot stay silent anymore. We have found a match for ironhorse in terms of sheer apologetics.
  22. 5 points
    Well, like someone else pointed out to you, what you believe doesn't change reality. The very definition you provided makes him an extortionist. Someone standing before a judge can't just say "you're honor, I didn't threaten them with punishment, I threatened them with purgatory to get them to change their ways" and get the charges dropped. Their very explanation of the situation would convict them right there. IOW, it doesn't matter whether or not hell is called a punishment or purgatory, the fact remains that it is leverage to keep believers believing and a threat to non believers to change their tune. This is not the definition of love, but the definition to a T of a disfunctional relationship at best and violent criminal behavior at worst. Unfortunately, there is just no way around this conclusion.
  23. 5 points
  24. 5 points
    Christians don't necessarily hold the same values either. Not even within denominations. That's just humans in general really.
  25. 5 points
    Nah you're welcome on the site as others said. Annoying behaviors? Currently I'm the most bothered by them telling me that their god did what I did. Like when there's success with a project, especially if there was a random coincidence that somehow made things better. Or when I avoid car crashes. Oh, and childhood indoctrination that makes children fear hell and demons, and pray with tears in their eyes for people who aren't "saved". There are so many healthier ways to teach kids about caring for the well-being of loved ones.
  26. 5 points
    I'd like my own reality TV show. If people get bored, tell them it is somehow related to Twin Peaks and they'll look for all these deeper meanings in it.
  27. 5 points
    For me the worst part was the depression I went through as I realized that the worldview I'd believed all my life, which I'd built my whole world on, which had consumed every ounce of my being, was actually a big, fat lie. I felt like the ground had been yanked out from under me and I was in a free-fall with nowhere to get a foothold. It basically just took time to deal with it and move on. I still wish I'd known the truth and made better, more informed choices for my life when I was younger, but I'm trying to make the best of where I'm at in life now and I no longer get depressed with it.
  28. 5 points
    Loss of social structure was probably the most unpleasant aspect & consequence of leaving the church, but I knew that would happen. The loss of our best friends was a little surprising. I didn't realize our friendship was dependent on where we went to church, but as it turned out it was. Fundamentalists versions of Christianity tend to exhibit cult like traits so walking away from them is very similar to leaving a cult. That often includes clearing your mind from the indoctrination of their beliefs & teachings, and that usually takes time & effort to accomplish.
  29. 5 points
    @Faeryn, At first the toughest part was realizing that, when we leave this world, that's it. Then I realized hey, it's just like taking a nap. Then it was the fear of what if the jebus freaks are right and there is a hell. But tons of reading the works of folks who are much much smarter than me dispelled that fear. Religion in general is largely fear based and xianity takes the lead there I think. Thirdly it was telling Mrs. MOHO. I know. I know. There I go again with the Mrs. MOHO diatribe. But she really is a "my way or the highway" kind of person. And she is currently setting up social events involving me and the critty bitties. Next week is a din din party in that environment and my plan is to lay it on with the Dawkins, Hitchens, FitzGerald et al. Maybe this approach will put an end to the attempts at re-indoctrination.
  30. 5 points
    Ok... I have read most of the thread. I was horrified by the first post. I let this out in the chat and I'll get back to that later in this post. The thread has since then been interesting, and in fact it's been interesting in many good ways - I actually have to thank you for making me think. But I have one wish. Take the "try to play nice" out of the introduction of the category. Replace it with "be prepared to step into shit, no taboos here, really we mean it" or something to that effect, so newcomers don't come in here expecting anyone to play nice - that way the portion of ex-C who need a this kind of outlet can have it, but the new people who are disturbed by it can more easily choose to stay away. I say this from the position of someone who's beem through various kinds of abuse, including sexual, and I don't confuse a sleazy look or even a random grope from a drunk in a bar with rape. I saw the header of the thread, and was expecting commentary about something going wrong with the #metoo campaign - which it was indeed, but my very first reaction was that I was appalled. I very well understand seeing the virgin Mary joke here, but not one that plays with the thought that anyone joining in the campaign wish they were "pounded". (Not going to pretend that the phenomenon is completely nonexistent. I remember being 19 or something and some girls being upset that they had no sexual partners, not even rapists! There is also the insult "you are so gross, you won't even get raped." True stories of some very juvenile minds I guess.) What made me appalled is that I remembered how bad shape I was in when I joined ex-C, and if I had happened to stumble upon the thread - under the description "almost anything goes, try to play nice", mind you - I'd have been much more shocked than I was now, because my last abuse had just been over, I'd lost my faith, and I was a mess. I'd have taken the thread, especially the first post, as a sign of this place being full of people who won't take me seriously, but in fact either laugh at what happened to me or not do anything to stop others from laughing (it coming from an actual moderator doesn't help the impression). Not with my name under the memes or anything clear like that, of course, because then they would have to be banned. It'd have been the wrong first impression. This place is in fact very supportive everywhere else. But, I only know that because I've been a member for so long now. As a newcomer I'd have honestly been too scared to open up about the extent of my abuse and get the wonderful support I did get. I understand very well that you want to find the ex-C's who need to vent this way, I suppose all of us look out for people who remind us of ourselves and there's nothing wrong with that. Myself, I worry about the shy, scared ones who really need to be super safe on their first trembling steps out, and maybe one day they too will join in the joking, maybe they won't - but there is no need for them to stumble here (ToT) without having been properly warned on the front page. It'd work like a traffic sign, not a... say, perambulator. I hope I made sense. It's still my second language and I get really nervous about speaking my mind in it.
  31. 5 points
    Yes I think I agree. Remembering the Pentecostals going about how everything will be gone soon anyway so don't get attached. Also the "thou shalt not have other gods" where the "other gods" can be ANYthing you love, and it very well can include nature! Back then I was telling myself off for liking PUPPIES, afraid I would accidentally devote more thoughts and love to them than i did to god, and upset the holy spirit!
  32. 5 points
    rachel, so good to see you but I'm so sorry you are distressed. I often wonder if humans can ever be really 100% happy. Even in church, I found there to be so much depression because people continuously were waiting to hear from god on what to do in life, how to buy groceries that week, should they take that job, would they get that job, would there mother get better from cancer, would their children be OK and on and on and on and on. The 'high' was when we were worshipping and pleading for god to help us. He was our slot machine. And we had hope with the lifted hands and tears that he would come through for us. Life is the same on the outside even without having god in one's life. It is up to us to make the right moves to take care of ourselves including our mental state. If one needs medication and is recommended by a doctor, then do it. Monetarily, I have been rich and I have been poor and I complained anyway. So happiness has to be a mindset as far as I'm concerned. If I get real mad at myself in a pity party, I can change it in 30 seconds by kicking my ass and telling myself that I refuse to live there. I pretend to have a 'higher self'. Lol So lots of times, I ask my pretend higher self how she would handle a situation. And I try to take time when making decisions now. I mostly don't even go around asking for peoples opinion anymore which once was so important to me. I needed the approval back then. Acceptance is a big word. Acceptance of life and the way it really is. So acceptance is a big key to my happiness. I have opened my eyes to all the good in life and all the bad and I have to accept those hard facts of life that sometimes it's just shitty. I go after solutions to problems now. I almost make it a game. I had to leave the faith behind. But it tore my guts out to do it. As much as I would love to have all those 'high' feelings again, I know that the bible is a book that was put together by man. I've had to have councilling to get me through some of it. Then I maintain my sanity by coming here and reading all the heartbreaking stories...and I know I'm not alone. 98% of my friends believe in something including a lot of christian friends. I don't turn to them for support with these issues (obviously). I let them be who they are now. When they tell me their miracle stories, I just am happy for them. I hope you will stay for awhile. Go do something really fun tonight. Dance in your living room. Go for a walk. Eat a bag of chips and don't feel guilty. Best to you hun. (hug)
  33. 5 points
  34. 5 points
    Hilarious! Had many a wine fueled conversation about this topic with my girlfriends. To each his/her own. We did agree on the tree looking taller/bigger when the bushes are trimmed.
  35. 5 points
    I actually watched all the videos in that bunch. I think because of the strong Christian influence in this country and especially the South, men and woman don't discuss all the aspects of sex such a favorite positions, oral, anal, what each partner likes and doesn't like, foreplay, grooming etc. Christianity has had such a negative influence on sex that I think way too many people are too embarrassed to have an adult conversation about their sexual needs and desires with their partner. I noticed in one of the videos that several woman said they liked rough sex. I don't think the average guy would think about asking his partner if she wanted rough sex and if he did he might not know exactly what she wants him to do even after she tells him. I think he might fear that he could be arrested. Maybe, even hopefully, the younger generation is more open to discuss their sexual needs and desires with their partner than my generation was. When I was growing up I never even heard the word sex in my home and my father was an atheists. Sex was a taboo subject back then. It simply wasn't discussed in mixed company. Sex was thought to be sinful, dirty, and vulgar except within marriage. Sex was taboo, vulgar, and disgusting until marriage and then it magically became something wonderful and beautiful. Yeah, well, I'm certain it didn't work that way for millions of couples. And even after marriage everyone knew Jesus was watching you having sex and listening to what you were saying. Lights out, missionary position, under the sheets, no nasty words or weird positions allowed because Jesus is taking notes and everyone knew those kind of things would be brought up again at the final judgement. And that kind of stuff could get you a one way ticket straight to hell. I think Jesus permits newly weds to have sex up to three times a week, but that diminishes over time until older married couples with grown children are only permitted to have sex once or twice a year-and no funny business allowed. At that age you don't want to trade your chance of going to heaven for a quick orgasms because that might upset Jesus. It would be sad, at that stage of your life, to see Jesus tearing up your ticket to heaven and throwing it in the trash just because you exceeded your orgasm limit.
  36. 4 points
  37. 4 points
    I would add this too. If the ultimate goal is to de-convert the spouse, the non- believer might want to rethink that. Until a believer develops doubt on their own, the chances of de-converting them using logic, reason, & evidence just isn't likely. If anything they tend to dig in & defend their beliefs even more dogmatically. When I was a believer I would never have listened to a non-believers argument. I developed doubts on my own then I became interested & willing to listen. No matter how tactfully a non-believers challenges a believers faith it comes across to them that you're calling them stupid. And nobody reacts favorably if they think someone is calling them stupid. Until or or unless the believer comes to you with questions it's probably best to let sleeping dogs...well, ah, sleep.
  38. 4 points
    Haven't had any of those in a while, but if I did I'd probably say nicely, "thanks, but I'm not interested," and shut the door even if they kept talking. (And keep it shut once I had.) They may look hurt, but that's their problem and remember Christians are great at manipulation. You didn't ask them to show up and they are bothering you at your home. I had a roommate who said sending them away was rude, but what's really rude is showing up at your house and telling you their beliefs are better than yours.
  39. 4 points
    This made me smile. xD As for the OP, my answer changes depending on the day. My life was a lie? Knowing everyone I love is still mired in it? Missing my sense of purpose and that no one is keeping an eye on me and taking care of me? How intensely fucked up my idea of morality is now that I've accepted I'm a species of primate.....I guess the worst is realizing deep down in my soul what my parents and other believer loved ones think of me when I didn't want it to be this way and that I didn't ask for it to go down like this. Knowing how many of my tears have been wasted on this bullshit, my endless prayers and fears and anger and pleading.... I know what they think, I used to think it. Knowing how brainwashed they are, that my freedom is causing them mental anguish (even though I can't control that)....having to come to terms with the fact that I never thought I'd be here over a year ago. This is my first Christmas in the Bible Belt area as a "mostly out" agnostic (at least with my family). I still haven't had the sit down with my parents where I just said, yep it's over. But they are being huge assholes about any comment I make. My dad asks me, in front of my entire family, if I'm comfortable with them praying for the meal in a restaurant. He makes this huge deal about me agreeing to go to a christmas eve service with my in-laws to keep the peace with everyone "YOU? Going to...CHURCH?" ....it's so annoying. How about, after that service, we go to @LogicalFallacy's annual celebration of the virgin birth of the Invisible Pink Unicorn. No? Anyone? Didn't think so, fam, fuck off lol.
  40. 4 points
    Whatever happened to "pray the gay away"?!?!
  41. 4 points
    Incorrect. Social Science covers a lot of different scientific disciplines. Anthropology, Economics, Geography, History, Law, Linguistics, Psychology, Archaeology, Marketing, and Sociology are all Social Sciences. There are also a lot of science disciplines that are related to them. Don't let Gender Studies give Sociology and Social Science a bad name. It's barely even science to begin with, it's mostly philosophy.
  42. 4 points
    Hi all, Bit apprehensive about this, but eh, I need to start somewhere. I'm in psychotherapy and going though my (attempt at the...) deconversion process. It isn't going well so far, but to be fair I'm only just realizing the sheer extent of how Christianity messed with my development as a child-teen, so I guess it could be worse: I could not be in therapy at all, and I could still be a Christian, but I'm not. Although, I feel as though I've had Christian views and morals barcoded into my psyche, and it's like I can't get them out no matter how much I intellectually know otherwise. These "views" and "morals" have significantly impacted me, my relationships, and my life for the worse. One of the biggest things I remember being taught as a child - "If you even think of something sinful, in god's eyes, that is JUST AS punishable with Hell as if you actually carried that action out in real life". As a result, I near-obsessively repented as a teenager, for experiencing "impure thoughts", and come to the realization that I am bisexual. I experienced maddening shame, fear, humiliation and loss of love from my mother alone because of it. I felt that my own family hated me, and that I couldn't even have love from god because of how sinful I was. I also started to believe that if my boyfriend so much as LOOKED at a woman and found her attractive, not only has he cheated on me just the same as if he had sex with her in real life, (if god himself thinks he has cheated, why should I believe any differently?), but that he displeased god. I'm 30 now, and I STILL experience severe jealousy if I even suspect that my boyfriend finds another woman attractive. Fortunately, I'm completely aware of how messed up this is, and how unrealistic and unhealthy it is, so I've just been fighting this issue for over a decade. For some reason it's taken me so long to even realize that Christianity is not only to blame for this, but for an enormous amount of my psychological issues. If you're taught that you're going to a place called hell for eternity because you looked at someone and thought they were attractive, how is that not going to affect a developing person? I'm uncomfortable with my own sexuality, and I'm uncomfortable with the sexuality of my partner. I don't want to be. I KNOW what's natural and what isn't. I know there's nothing wrong with being bisexual, straight, or whatever, but there's it's like there is just NO shifting this nonsense from my mind.
  43. 4 points
    The persecuted one is pretty rich. As someone who actively believed the world was persecuting me as a Christian and now, as a non-religious person in the Bible Belt in USA, I can tell you EVERYONE hates the resident atheist. Even if most people don't go to church every Sunday or believe in fundamental Christianity, don't challenge the subjective idea of "god" or you're evil.
  44. 4 points
    I'm not an atheist but if you want to hear my answer: The combination of 1. assuming the Christian view of "truth" is the only valid one, and 2. the desire to convert everyone else. The one or the other can be bearable, but the combo is what (to me) makes it obnoxious. Quite a few will now probably want to point out the frequently-encountered holier-than-thou arrogance, habitual use of lies, and the reality denial of fanatic Christians, but arguably, I think these derive from the above-mentioned root causes.
  45. 4 points
    Why would elected legislators do such a thing? Wait for it........... because the wealthy corporations, monopolies and financial toads actually make the laws and regulations by buying politicians and people in regulatory agencies. Wealthy capitalists buy the lawmakers and some people still blame the "government" even though a government has nothing to gain directly from creating monopolies and subsidizing private industry.
  46. 4 points
    I recognize myself here. I had a lot of these feelings, and I still do, they surface when I'm in touch with those in my family who are still believers. I have thought there's something awfully wrong with me that the feelings I usually hold for these people just aren't there. I feel emotionally numb. I'm a person who usually holds a lot of empathy for others, sometimes so much that it has felt like a burden to me, and it has bothered me immensely that I feel so emotionally numb. But I think it's just part of going through this whole process, it does such a number on you in so many ways and exhausts you to your core to the extent that there's no energy left over for others in some ways. I know I present a put together picture to the world, to my friends even, but inside I sometimes feel like I'm coming apart at the seems. This forum and the friends I have made here have helped me pull through, and they can be there for you too. Seek therapy if you need it. I go regularly and it has helped and is helping in processing all of this change. ((hugs)) -TruthSeeker
  47. 4 points
    Waiting for this thread to end......
  48. 4 points
    Ex-christian.net! ♬ Where threads any other forum would have locked pages ago, are left to evolve into completely unconstructive shit-slinging drama fests because we appreciate the beauty of freedom of speech here! Yay! Or alternatively... Ex-christian.net! ♬ So you thought Hell wasn't real? ...Think again!
  49. 4 points
    There is no way you can win this. You have no way of knowing if I read the salient parts of this thread before I 'jumped in' or not, even though I hadn't (at the time) read it all. I'm not butthurt. No tantrum here on my end. I got 'called out' by nothing beyond your need to be a superior intellect, which indicates to me that you don't have one when it comes to our dialogue here. Just my humble opinion, of course, but I think (and maybe others might see this too) you are trying too hard to be right, when being accurate would be better. Have you considered that maybe you are so full of ego that you can't see that you are the one being passive-aggressive, butthurt, putting your foot in your mouth, and digging the hole deeper for yourself on this? I'm glad you find this all amusing, but there's no accounting for taste. You find a lot of things amusing that aren't to some people, and you insisting that some things are funny doesn't make it so to those that don't.
  50. 4 points
    I see what you're saying and I understand that this whole thing tbh is hard on more than just women who have been assaulted, and the #metoo movement has given way to bad as a side-effect. Even today I heard a guy getting on a public shitlist for a crime he didn't commit. There's some fucked up stuff happening also as a result of this hashtag, which I don't condone in any way. And yeah, like you said, the definitions of what actually make pun "assault" are getting stretched just because people want to jump on a bandwagon. You are right. I'm not used to the stuff going here, but I'm not going to get caught up as I have because people have informed me about how this place works. I've participated in forums and moderated some myself since around 2004, so while I'm not new, this does function differently to most I've frequented but this is the internet, so whatever happens happens, lol.