Jump to content

Leaderboard

Popular Content

Showing content with the highest reputation since 08/17/2021 in all areas

  1. The standard Christian view of an afterlife consisting of Heaven or Hell is absolutely wrong, I have no doubt about that. Some kind of existence beyond the grave is of course possible, though I've seen no evidence. I like the Alan Watts take on "spiritual" matters, it seems reasonable and even makes sense in its own way, though again, no evidence. As I said in SeaJay's thread, I see two possibilities: 1) Die and just cease to exist and there is no one around to realize it, no problem. 2) We are an expression of All That Is and the real us can never die. Again, no problem. Being the only animal with a sense of mortality has its perks and drawbacks as well! Being in my 70s with a Stage 4 cancer I can relate to the concept of mortality. Honestly, it doesn't bother me because I had a great life. Everything must die, so how big a deal can it be?
    7 points
  2. Welcome to Ex-C! What do we believe...hmmm...let me see. As a group we individually believe lots of things; Taoism, Buddhism, Deism, Norse and Celtic religious practice, a couple of witches here and some Nihilists and Dudeists. Many claim to be atheists or agnostics. It's what we no longer believe that draws us together. We have not found compelling evidence for Christianity and find much to be desired in the historicity of it's holy book. Many have had a rather harmful traumatic history with the religion and others simply can't reconcile the beliefs with demonstrable reality as in historical records, archaeology, physics and science in general. Does that help?
    7 points
  3. Hey guys, I’ve been thinking and feeling a lot lately and wanted to share some of it. I know a lot of this has probably already been said by others on here and that’s okay, I’m just sharing my experiences and what I’ve realized since leaving Christianity. I play piano, and it’s actually been helpful for my deconversion process to just get my thoughts out there with music and singing/yelling sometimes haha. So I think my belief and trust in Jesus was the last to leave. Because that used to be comforting to me and even after I stopped believing in the Bible like I used to and realizing that hell didn’t exist, etc, I still clung to that. I clung to the idea of a plan for my life and that I could trust in Jesus to be there for me and love me no matter what. I used to to think that feeling everything so much and hurting so much on the inside meant that I was closer to God and I was experiencing what God felt for us, his compassion, his hurt, all his pain for humanity. I thought by feeling that it meant I was becoming like Jesus. All things to all people. I thought I had to be all things to all people and it was really exhausting. Looking back it was a lot of not knowing how to regulate my emotions, trauma, combined with a little bit of undiagnosed ADHD. But I’ve been calling myself an ex Christian for sure all the way since about last October. Almost a year. It’s still raw sometimes and I know it’s a process, but every day I’m so glad I’m not in it anymore. The guilt, the manipulation, the lies, the fear, and so much more. It outweighs all the good I got from it. I miss the community sometimes, the feeling of security from thinking there was a plan for me, the peace I would occasionally get from a “God” feeling, but I don’t miss the devastating shame, the horrifying fear, the pettiness of which sins were worse than others even though they’re all supposed to be the “same”, and the feeling of never being enough. That’s something too I’ve realized. You’re never enough in Christianity. It’s supposed to be fine, because God is enough and he covered you and you shouldn’t feel guilty, at least that’s what you’re told at first. But you can never read your Bible enough. You can never pray enough. You can never “share the gospel” or “witness enough. You can never worship enough. You’re broken and you raise your hands to pray for forgiveness for your sins and you feel so dirty and dark and just wrong. For a moment of peace you feel 100 nights of guilt and shame. God can never have enough glory, he can never have enough lives, enough suffering, enough of you. It’s a cycle of shame that never ends. It just keeps going, and you keep praying, and keep sinning, and asking for forgiveness, and feeling close to God, and feeling far, so far. And over and over and over again. You really don’t see it when you’re in it but it’s so sickening from the outside. The lengths you have to go to to justify so much. I was okay with being killed and tortured for the gospel at 8. I thought I was going to be killed at any time for Jesus. We were taught what to say and do if an armed gunman came into church or anywhere and asked us to deny the gospel. Because that was super likely to happen in the United States, particularly the south, I’m rolling my eyes thinking about it but I was terrified as a kid. I was so okay with dying from such a young age. I read and heard stories of families being tortured and killed in front of a father or mother to try and get them to deny God and Jesus and them refusing, and my father or mother nodding along, sometimes teary eyed, because if that’s what it took, then that’s what it took to be faithful to God. That is so messed up. Years of toxic purity culture and being blamed for the lust of men and teenaged boys. Time after time “should she have been wearing that” and “she was asking for it wasn’t she?” In the same breath as praying for safety and health for their own wives and daughters. Teenage boys were told they shouldn’t marry a woman who was raped because she “wasn’t pure”. Girls and boys were made guilty for assaults that may have happened when they were in diapers, for anything and everything that made them “impure”. I know people are just people, and Christianity is technically no different from other groups in that it can have really good people and really bad people, but Christianity also enables certain things. Certain types of people and certain types of behavior. There’s a reason why abusers, rapists, manipulators, liars, and sociopaths flock to Christianity. Because it so often enables them and lets them get away with so much. Look at the Duggar family. Since I grew up homeschooled they were praised a lot. Look at how they treated the oldest brother who assaulted his sister. Sent him to someone’s house to “get better”. The parents, especially the Dad, were and are so controlling. That’s not good for any child to grow up under. I’ve actually found a lot of helpful people and information to help me with all of this online, here and other places, and through social media. Weirdly enough through Tik Tok. There’s a surprising amount of ex Christians on that app and it’s helped me to process immensely. I stopped caring as much who knew I wasn’t a Christian anymore, and while I’ve had some hard and hurtful conversations, I’ve also received more support and understanding from people I’ve known a while who are in similar places now. It’s caused some great conversations to happen and it’s nice to know that I’m not the only one out there. I wish I could get more of my friends and family to leave, to really see the manipulation and the lies, but I know I can’t do that. I can’t make people want to doubt. That’s something they’re going to have to do on their own. It’s hard, like with my parents? I honestly don’t think they would know who they were if not for Christianity. And that makes me so sad. But it’s been their whole lives. Who would they even be without it? What kind of identity would they have? I know it’s possible and I’m not giving up on the hope that maybe one day they’ll realize, but I can’t actively try to convince them to leave, it’s too hard and it doesn’t work. I’m so much more content and even though some things in my life are hard I still feel so much better. So much more free. I’m still learning a lot and researching a lot but it’s at my own pace, I don’t feel like my eternal salvation depends on it. I appreciate you guys a lot and thanks for being here and for listening. P.S. do you have to have a certain amount of posts to be able to react or like posts? I’m a little confused on that. I want to like so many things on here but I can’t haha.
    6 points
  4. I think the only real unknown is what happens to consciousness. Personally, I'm okay with being rid of this body that seems to be having more problems with each passing day. I even look forward to not having to constantly struggle to keep the thoughts of my ADHA addled brain in check. But the quintessential "me"... well, I'd miss having him around. He's funny, creative, quick-witted, kind and giving, and would feel absolutely terrible about leaving anybody behind. Like Florduh said, everything changes; but maybe the "real" doesn't pass completely. Maybe it just changes into something new. Maybe all those things that make "me" will live on in my sons and the others I've loved. Maybe I'll be aware of it and maybe I won't. But I am aware of the possibility, which makes me want to be the best "me" I can be right now.
    5 points
  5. A T shirt I got for my birthday. Forgive my sidetracking the thread!
    5 points
  6. I really love/hate this thread. But I am so glad you started this topic. Thank you because I really needed to talk about this getter older. Personally, I hate it and it has caused me a lot of grief in the last couple of years. It is a blessing and a curse to make it to 67 without dying in a plane crash, car accident, sickness like so many others. My own sister left the earth at 40 with a brain aneurism which I have really never recovered from. I just live with it. She was my twin flame...my Chinese twin. We were 11 months apart. There has been an emptiness in my heart for 25 years now. But I have also been lucky enough to have friends that made me laugh throughout the years... including this site which I constantly posted on for many years. I was a 'youngin' when I joined this site. Lol Many people die so young, so I am always grateful no matter what I have had to deal with. But I truly hate getting old, even though I am truly grateful to have made it this far. It's a rock and a hard place to be in. As most older people would say, it is not fun to watch when your friends die or get sick. It's heartbreaking. I've had a few losses in the last few years. So a new kind of 'stress' enters this stage as you get older. Just when you think all is going well, one of your friends is being tested for leukemia. (happening right now) Or you have to watch your girls' marriage go down the drain before it hits it's 5th anniversary and her 14 year old (my grandson) has already been going missing in the last 2 years and is now addicted to pills and alcohol at 16 years old (now) and there is nothing you can do to stop it. Even after we have tried EVERYTHING. Yeah, there are some new stresses at this stage of life and if you don't put on your invisible boxing gloves to fight back and keep surviving, you would jump off a bridge. You need to be real fucking strong and if your not, you might lose your mind. Do I want to live to see my grandson kill himself? No thank you. I'm not sure my invisible boxing gloves would get me through that pain. My own demise was caused by heavy smoking and being around too much aerosol cans of hairspray for the last 48 years. So sucks to be me. I remember begging god to take away the desire to smoke from me. Ya'd think he would do that for one of his children, eh? Anyway, I walk everyday as far as I can and do a lot of deep breathing exercises to help me keep moving. The chronic pain started about 9-10 years ago when I was rear-ended twice within 3 years. I do everything I can to manage that pain. Somedays I wanna give up and most days I put on my invisible boxing gloves and kick it in the ass. I get real mad and I won't allow the pain to rule over my life. I know this post is long. I wasn't going to write it (and i almost deleted it) but this is my support group and sometimes I really have no one to talk to because people will say, 'this wrinkle is for this reason' and 'this wrinkle is for that reason'. Fuck that. Wrinkles are caused by stress and getting old. I hate the wrinkles. I've decided that I am going to my grave with my blue eye shadow and bright pink lipstick on no matter how ugly this wrinkled face gets. I almost lost my house during the pandemic. They say no stress when you get older??? Yeah, right. You think the bank helped me? Nope. i took in boarders. Blood, sweat, tears and inconvenience. That's how we made it. So you better save a shitload of money and make sure you got lots if you ever want to retire. And make sure you got a lot of hobbies and money to do them because retirement is not all what it's cracked up to be. Unless you have enough money to fly around the world and do whatever you want, you'll be sitting around wondering what to do next. Just like the Professor has said of the new hobby he has taken up. Excellent Professor! You have encouraged me. As for my friend florduh, he's not allowed to leave. I have cast my magic spell of healing over him and whatever the fuck is going on, I command in the name of Ex-c for him to be healed. Nope, florduh can't go nowhere. I won't have it. OK. I have rambled on enough. Put on those invisible boxing gloves because life is bittersweet and you need to stay as strong as you can to make it through of of it. Never give up. I plan on going out with the biggest fight of my life. Hang out with supportive people and make friends with people who make you laugh. There is laughter in between some of the horrible stressors we have to go through in life so always take advantage to laugh and have a good time. The main message I want to portray is for you to continue to be strong mentally because life is very hard at times. Love you all. You are my people. And I am grateful for 11 years that I can come to this site and get shit out of me that I can't anywhere else. Thank you for that. Love from old and grumpy Margee.......
    4 points
  7. Over the past year, I've started dabbling in woodworking. It started out small--little keep boxes and display shelves and such. But lately I've made a few things that I'm really proud of. I've made chess sets for both the boys, a shoe rack for Ms. Professor, a table from my grandma's first pump pedal sewing machine... These will all, I hope, become family heirlooms; and I will live on and be remembered as they are passed down. This newfound hobby has also given me a new sense of patience, perspective, and creativity. I don't use store bought kits to make things. I do it all from scratch and imagination. I also don't use a lot of power tools beyond a planer, sander, and miter saw as needed. Instead I do everything by hand, using different hand saws, chisels, a hand planer, a rasp or two. This seems extreme; but it is deliberate. Not only does this force patience and zen; but it also puts me in touch with the long standing tradition and techniques of woodworkers from years long gone by, before there were tablesaws and a rotary jig for every kind of scroll or cut. It forces me into the moment with the reminder that time marches on. I like being there.
    4 points
  8. It's been some time now, but I remember a documentary that interviewed several people, maybe 15 or so, and they were all over 100 years old. All were in reasonably good health, some rather active and even dating. All were eventually asked the same question, "How long is too long?" Every damn one of them said 90 should be the limit; all your friends/family are dead, you've done whatever you intended to do in life, and living just gets old.
    4 points
  9. Copd will take me out for sure. And I can hardly make it through a day because the chronic pain in my whole body wears me down so bad. I doubt it if I will even make it to 70 and I'm almost 67 now. And absolutely not one person in my family including my husband knows how everyday I have to force myself to get out of bed and try to breathe, have a good attitude and put a smile on my face. Not even my best friends know. Nobody gets to see my suffering. Some days are better than others. There are some days I can barely breathe and I know my time is probably coming. I want to give as much kindness as I can to everyone for the remainder of whatever time I have left. I like florduh's explanation the best. Quote: '' As I said in SeaJay's thread, I see two possibilities: 1) Die and just cease to exist and there is no one around to realize it, no problem. 2) We are an expression of All That Is and the real us can never die. Again, no problem.'' Being agnostic I will want to take my, ''Please Forgive Me'' letter to the grave with me in case I do happen to meet Jesus. Hopefully he will understand where my doubting comes from. I'm ready to go anytime. I personally don't want to leave the earth but sometimes in old age, it is a blessing to get out of the body. I have accepted this. So smile, pass around the jokes, watch funny TV, don't pay too much attention to the horrible news and be kind to everyone if you can. And go eat cake and ice cream. ((hugs)) to each and everyone of you today.
    4 points
  10. BroRando, It's common to see through our individual perspective and believe that such degradation is increasing. In reality, all the things cited in these two scriptures have always been true. There has not been a time in human history where the behaviors cited in those two scripture were not so. I've noted more than once that as I'm now in the final third of life (of an average lifespan that is), and we have had the internet now for 25 years, I've seen more of human beings and human nature than I ever wanted to know. Yes, in some parts of the western world 50 years ago you could more easily give a ride to a hitchhiker. That is an example of seeing the world through your own personal lens and drawing conclusions from your personal emotional reasoning. The Bible is purported to apply to the entire earth, it does not specify the United States, or Kansas, or only the better parts of NYC. Here in the US though, violent crime is actually less now than in most of the nation's past. The statistics are there for anyone to see. Human beings have always been evil and brutal by nature. Nothing has changed, unfortunately. Today however, we are all connected and a very large part of humanity walks about with a portable video production system and the means to propagate that production almost immediately to the rest of humanity. All that is ugly and disgusting about human nature is laid bare for all to see. And, there are so many more of us now. And therein lies the critical difference. More of us competing for the most desirable living space, more of us competing for available resources. I personally have a dark view of humanity and I trust no one. I recognize though that life where I am is far less evil and ugly than on much of the rest of the planet.
    4 points
  11. Just like Christians, ex-christians go on to believe all sorts of things - some true, some not. Leaving Christianity is not a single lane country road. To discard one single belief is not to automatically take up another, specific belief. The only universal belief ex-christians share is that continued belief in Christianity is not justified. Where they go from there is entirely up to them.
    4 points
  12. I've got an old buddy from church days that keeps wanting to contact me and chat over his life troubles, and possibly move in for a while. His is the most convoluted irrational thinking I've ever encountered, and to him it is "deep wisdom of God". Example: When he was a child playing in the yard with his sister, she tossed him a toy pistol so he could act like a cowboy TV star. It hit him in the eye and blinded him. Over the years of being indoctrinated, he turned this unfortunate event into "Jesus saw the pride in my heart, wanting to be like a tough cowboy star, and in his mercy destroyed that pride and made me face years of rejection so I could become a faithful servant." It is more than irrational, it is watching a human capitulate to an abuser and call it the greatest love ever shown. Christianity pretends to be love while being pernicious evil. Happily the abuser doesn't really exist, but the cult is expert at manipulating emotions so that millions believe he is there and hates/loves them and they so deserve to be burned alive by the god who is love. Insane.
    4 points
  13. How jesus feels about end time prophecies:
    3 points
  14. And as trite as it may seem, none of us knows if we will ever live to "old age". Today could be your final day. Stuff happens.
    3 points
  15. Simply, and sincerely... In my early 60's with no family, more and more each day I look forward to the time I won't care any longer about anything in this world. The concept of "eternal rest" has a lot of appeal. I've seen enough here. Mean people suck.
    3 points
  16. BroRando, Greetings sir ! This is the funniest JW scene that i can recall from the movies. know you've probably seen this before but if not here it is I don't just make fun of JW's , I make fun of all religions and think that religious beliefs are almost as funny collectively as these actresses.
    3 points
  17. I wondered who that annoying fuck was! Glad you fessed up. Confession is good for the soul. Even the mortal soul of an infidel.
    3 points
  18. @BroRando So what's the premise of this thread anyways? Look for potential suicide victims on an ex christian website????? Try and lure these apparently depressed and suicidal ex christians into the JW cult????? I'm not sure why this shouldn't be viewed as an asshole move on Bro's part???? Here's the deal. People here are under my protection and under the protection of every other staff member and regular member of this website. We're going to call you out on bullshit. We're going to whip your ass in debate. We won't stand down. We won't pussy foot around pretending everything is peachy! The very last thing ex christian people contemplating "suicide" need right now is some mindless cult robot trying to lure them into the JW!!!!!!
    3 points
  19. BroRando, There is a fundamental flaw in your argument. You take what is written in the bible as trustworthy and reliable. Perhaps even infallible and inerrant. Yet, there are glaring contradictions in both the Old and New testaments. This particular one appears in both. God himself speaks these words. Genesis 3 : 18 By the sweat of your brow you will eat your food until you return to the ground, since from it you were taken; for dust you are and to dust you will return.” God's curse of death upon Adam applies to all of his descendants. Paul confirms this in Hebrews 9 : 27 & 28. 27 Just as people are destined to die once, and after that to face judgment, 28 so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him. But in Genesis 5 : 23 & 24 we see that Enoch did not die and return to the dust. 23 Altogether, Enoch lived a total of 365 years. 24 Enoch walked faithfully with God; then he was no more, because God took him away. Paul confirms this in Hebrews 11 : 5. 5 By faith Enoch was taken from this life, so that he did not experience death: “He could not be found, because God had taken him away.” For before he was taken, he was commended as one who pleased God. According to God's own spoken words, because of Adam's sin all men are destined to die and return to the dust. According to God's Word (scripture) Enoch did not die and return to the dust. Yet, Enoch was a man descended from Adam and so, according to God's words, he should have died and returned to the dust. Even Jesus experienced death. But not Enoch. Nor Elijah, for that matter. So, God's Word contradicts the words spoken by God. Since both testaments contain the same contradiction, the bible is therefore a flawed, unreliable and untrustworthy source. And so are your bible-based assertions, BroRando. Thank you. Walter.
    3 points
  20. Shit... I can't find anything to cut and paste in response...
    3 points
  21. Woah! Stop right here! I need to understand this. Are you saying that there is a future where I won't have JW's bothering me at home? And, this is the important part, you're saying it's very close at hand? Don't get my hopes up here. That I might live to see such end times is more than I could hope to imagine. mwc
    3 points
  22. Do you not understand? It has been written. Sheesh.... try to keep up
    3 points
  23. This is what you get when the Jehovah's Witless are working from home. My former conservative, Bible believing, fundamentalist evangelical pastor started out as a JW and found they were too fucked up even for him. Enough said, I think.
    3 points
  24. I saw one of my fundy friends on FB post this aswell. I couldn't help but reply and let her know that in the higher learning colleges such as Harvard where they study the original fragments, that the contrast from what they believed growing up and what they realise was the original text is so different that many lose their faith. And would need such a chaplain that understands what they are going through. I've been becoming more open about my non belief on FB lately. I'm tired of hiding it. Hell I'm tired of seeing the everybody pray for such n such posts too. If they don't want to be my friend because I no longer believe. Well..... Adios. I gotta live my life now.
    3 points
  25. The problem is that when historians go looking for the "real jesus" beneath the mythology, they usually end up with vastly different pictures of who that person was and usually reflects personal subjective views of the historian in question. The Jesus will end up looking like what the person question favors their version of jesus to be (I have become all things to all men - Paul). More so than hitting a home run for who the man behind the myth really was. Their methodology is usually to try and strip away what they think is fluff and then leave what they think is likely. But what happens is that when you narrow down what some think is likely, even that comes with problems. Some of what they think is likely is the midrash content. Where it's clear that the content is midrash, not historical documentation. It's it's actually not very likely that the midrash scenes have to do with real history. Check out this article about the Nazareth issue: Jesus of where? A response by Frank Zindler to Bart Ehrman - Stellar House Publishing "Christ Jesus" literally translates to "anointed savior." Looks more like a title than a common name. "Jesus Christ", then, translates to savior anointed. He has a point about finding problems with (1) early first century historical Nazareth and (2) the very name given itself, which, could be something entirely other than Jesus. The name Jesus of Nazareth, whatever the case, is part of the myth more than anything else. The main issue is that whatever jesus may or may not have been, it's pretty much lost to time and the best scholars today are outside of being able to piece it back together in any objective sense. And that's good enough to conclude that the gospel myths are irrelevant in that way - as history. They're so mythological that it makes little sense to try and patch quilt any real histories. Especially when there's always counter arguments to the patch quilt attempts. At the end of the day people are left to branch off into personal opinions as to how much, if any, was really historical. And I think that has led to the situation this century in the growing numbers of people referred to as, "don'ts": Don't know. Don't believe. Don't care.
    3 points
  26. Stoicism is nothing to get excited about.
    3 points
  27. An atheist is nothing more than a person who has not found evidence to believe in a god. With no evidence for gods then the most reasonable thing to do would be conclude there are no gods. So yes, it is the very definition of reasonable. I would venture to say that you are probably an atheist regarding every god but your own. Is that reasonable for you?
    3 points
  28. You've been deceived by the enema... I mean... enemy. Everybody knows the fruit that the rib woman ate was an avacado. And she believed, as you do, that it was "pleasing to the eye and good for food." But it brought sin into the world. That is why god is using "this generation" to eradicate this blasphemous abomination from the earth before his return. Repent, thou, therefore this day; and turn from the wickedness of thy ways.
    3 points
  29. This is all the stuff you tell your mom. You tell her you like the pastor and his wife but if they show up on your doorstep you'll turn them away and it will harm any relationship you might have with them now to mention whatever health effects. If you want them to come to your house you will invite them on your terms not hers. Your mom won't like any of this but odds are she won't want to chance ruining some future chance of you calling them over and go along. Thing is set the limit. Don't let her be involved in any way. What I'm saying is don't let her act as a broker or go-between so she can constantly be in your business pushing for a get-together. Let her know that you'll call the priest if and when you want the priest and she won't be the one to do anything or even be notified if a meeting occurs. mwc
    3 points
  30. I'm agnostic. There may be a God. I just dont think he/it necessarily aligns with the loving personality of the God as described in the bible or Christianity in general. Yes, we still have murder, rape, child sex trafficking, seemingly under the watch of what Christians say is a loving God. How does that work? It reminds me of Epicurus: “Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?” ― Epicurus If his claim to good fatherhood is null, is he worthy of praise? If he allows innocents to suffer or die, is he worthy of praise? If he 'loves' us but never communicates, is he worthy of praise? Why or or why not? If God lets his creations burn in hell , is he worthy of praise? If he lets good people who dont believe in him burn in hell, is he worthy of praise?
    2 points
  31. Now now Bro Rando..... ya see , let's not pick and chose on this. You can't take one little snippet of a chapter like this and predict the end times. Let's look at a few verses together. 26 “Just as it was in the days of Noah, so also will it be in the days of the Son of Man. 27 People were eating, drinking, marrying and being given in marriage up to the day Noah entered the ark. Then the flood came and destroyed them all. 28 “It was the same in the days of Lot. People were eating and drinking, buying and selling, planting and building. 29 But the day Lot left Sodom, fire and sulfur rained down from heaven and destroyed them all. The author of these verses is trying to tell the reader that the people were living life as if nothing was going to happen. They weren't heeding the warnings that God had given them. They weren't helping Noah, They weren't turning from their sinful ways, and they were living life oblivious to Gods wrath that was about to pour down on them. So shall it be in the days of the Son of man. This has nothing to do with how long Noah lived. Um...... no rando we aren't. The world has gotten better and better since 1914. We are living in an age where we can adjust the temperature of our home to whatever is comfortable, many of the illnesses that plagued people in 1914 have been all but eliminated, advancements in medicine in the past 100 years has raised quality of life and life expectancy astronomically. The past 100 years have been a cake walk compared to ancient times. ........ maybe you've never read about the dark ages. I'm really not seeing it here buddy. If Satan has been in charge the past 90 years can we just stick with him? I don't think I wanna go back to pre-1914 conditions thankyou. I like my AC. Hail Satan!!! Please keep my condenser working and my duct work sure. May the fresh water you've given keep flowing from the faucet and flushing my toilet. Blessed is the man that sleeps with his life saving "satan powered" cpap on his comfy pillow top mattress. Praise be to the devil for these many blessings. LMAO the JWs are a joke.
    2 points
  32. Scripture doesn't offend me. We've all seen the scripture. We've all searched the scripture. In a lot of cases the scripture started our exit from Christianity. I cherished the scripture at the height of my zeal for God. The JW religion is a baby in the grand scheme of things. They offer nothing any more tangible than the others and from what I've been told. (Mind you this is only hear say, I've never been JW.) But the descriptions I've heard of the religion once your in and practicing, is very cult like. And I've had my fill of cults. I understand you feel like your doing what the "Lord" or "jehova" wants you to do. I've been there too. I've been that annoying fuck in the parking lot with a speaker and microphone preaching to the traffic stopped at red lights. So I've been in your shoes. You've done your job. Go in peace and I hope your eyes can one day Crack open to the truth and dispel the lies you've been indoctrinated with. DB
    2 points
  33. The above is one issue that would be nice to see aired out in a Carrier versus Ehrman debate. I'd like to see Ehrman try and defend his opinions about Carriers usage of Bayes Theorem.
    2 points
  34. Absent "original sin", the Gospel is meaningless. The entire creation myth and the tale of Adam and Eve and the fall of mankind is predicated on something supposedly reported by a man named Abram/Abraham who supposedly lived about 5,000 years ago. There is no objective reason to believe that this man Abram ever lived. There is even less reason to believe anything he supposedly said about God appearing to him to tell him the tale of creation and the Garden. The reasoning among believers is that these things are true because it is written in the Bible. The reasoning among believers that the Bible is true is the belief that God gave the content in the Bible to mankind. The reasoning among believers for belief in God is that the Bible says that He exists. Human beings see what they believe... even when it's predicated on circular logic.
    2 points
  35. I struggled with this same thing when I left Christianity. I found a book by James Warren called, "Facing Death - Epicures and his critics." It really helped me to come to some of the same conclusions you mentioned in the post. As others have said, it was realizing that I did not exist for billions of years before I came to being. It did not bother me then, why should I be bothered about it when I die. I am certain that I will probably have some level of fear when I am actually dying, if I am in a situation where I will know I am dying. Mostly because I have never done it before. The book addresses that as well; I found it really helpful.
    2 points
  36. BroRando, if there actually is an End Times, you'll be no better off than the non-believers. Anything that takes us out (e.g. global warming, disease, nuclear war) will get you too. I am firmly of the opinion that eternal life is not possible, and that for all intents and purposes your fate is identical to mine -- death, irreversible breakdown of the physical body, insentience and the permanent loss of literally everything we know or believe. There is no escape.
    2 points
  37. *Searches entire thread again, in vain, for attitude of any kind.*
    2 points
  38. Looks to me like BroRando is looking more to evangelize than deconvert from a toxic belief system. People do come here with doubts and asking for help and people here do empathize, offer kindness and resources to help people transition out of Christianity. Now if BroRando has doubts, has lost faith, is losing faith, is questioning his faith, and would like an ear to listen and help, then we're all here for him. I wonder what kind of reception I would get on a Christian forum by offering the free gift of atheism to anyone there ... along with the suicide hotline number? Doesn't that kind of suggest that their lifestyle is something they should turn away from? That their lifestyle has them headed towards suicide? That's what I got from the OP.
    2 points
  39. BroRando, I appreciate your concern, but we have been in your shoes, but looked outside the box and discovered that what we had been told about what was in the box, was nothing but superstitions. A whole string of poorly put together superstitions, myths, etc. Open up your mind, pray to find truth, do an indepth study of the history of gods and religions, and then come back and tell us which one is the TRUE one. By the way, in my opinion, the doctrine of original sin contributes to the problem of suicide. Along with earthly parents who shame, neglect and abuse their children.
    2 points
  40. Sort of like the preachers today who like the dramatic approach (usually false), "I used to be a satanist, but now..." And "I used to be atheist, but now..." Also, the book of Acts wasn't written by Paul and isn't among the 7 authentic Pauline epistles. So the conversion on the road to Dumb-ass-kiss comes from a different source altogether. It was added later as a way of making a back story. Used to bridge the gap between the later written gospels and the earlier written epistles. When we think of Paul it's easy to lump the authentic and not authentic in together. That's why it can be confusing to follow what Doherty and now Carrier are talking about. They're stripping it down bare and separating everything apart into a historical timeline of the appearances of writings. The cannon has it flipped around backwards to where it reads as if the gospels came first, then acts, then the Pauline epistles. But in reality the gospels and acts are more like the prequel movies nowadays. Where they go back and try and give back stories. Acts is like Rogue One. Wasn't in mind when Star Wars came out. Created after the fact to bridge the prequels with the original trilogy.
    2 points
  41. I wonder if SouthernSound eats avacados.
    2 points
  42. I think you will have better luck if you engage with a single person at a time. Your question can be reframed to show why your initial shotgun approach is ineffective: You are a New Yorker, perhaps moved to New York or born and raised there. You are at a site of ex-New Yorkers asking them where they moved when they left. It's interesting to you where they moved. Some moved to London; some are in Madrid. A few moved to LA and a few crazy ones moved to Florida. In general, everyone who left moved to all manner of places across the world. It's different because most New Yorkers are more interested in knowing why someone would ever dare leave New York and insist on arguing why we were wrong to move away. So far you occupy a unique position of only asking where we went as opposed to why.
    2 points
  43. Jesus, will you answer Southern's question please?
    2 points
  44. Just posting to say I'm not a Moderator. I visit every day and read things thoroughly. I was an evangelical Christian minister for many years until I was 'surprised by joy' when I realised it was all foolishness. My pet dislike is christians trying to convert me - 'been there, done that, got the T-shirt' - am happier now without it all. SouthernSound: I am following your posts with interest, waiting to see if you are like the rest who come here.
    2 points
  45. I believe that dealing with the grueling details of god can take my focus away from the satisfaction of making a living and the joy of everyday details of life.
    2 points
  46. Yep, did that long ago. I check in every year or so just to see what he is up to.
    2 points
  47. It does seem to lessen the effects. One of the local hospitals is reporting 66 cases in the hospital. 40 of those were unvaccinated with ICU patients in the teens. The others were vaccinated with only 3 or 4 in ICU. So if you aren't at risk with any issues concerning the vaccine. It would be best to take it. That still may not keep you from dying tho. And people need to understand that. I think the false sense of security people felt when they first got vaccinated was more harmful than helpful now that we know the vaccinated can and will spread the virus. It's kinda like a finicky sprinkler system in a house that's burning. It might work...... it might not. The house might partially burn, or it may just get singed. Either way. I guess it's the best we got. I hope we can agree that this isn't good enough tho and we need to keep researching and making this vaccine better. If possible. Which I'm sure they are. Especially with the delta variant. On another note. The friend I spoke of before, that went on the ventilator just passed away. She was being transported to another hospital. On the way she flat lined and they were not able to bring her back. She was Ms. Exbishops best friend. She was a good woman and will be greatly missed.
    2 points
  48. I think it's worth a try to reason with someone; but know when to let it go and walk away.
    2 points
  49. I've ceased trying "to reason with".. anyone, about anything. The hard-won lesson I will take to my grave is that the surest way to waste the finite years/days/seconds we humans have in this life is to allow yourself to stumble into the position of trying to convince anyone of anything. People see what they believe. People see a god because they want one. I know I did.. I was a fool. When a human being wants a god to rule over their life, really what more do you need to know about them? From there you already know that they don't want or much care about reality, and that they place little value on their own life. They choose to believe in something and pattern their life on the basis of what they hope to be true. Reality is what it is. What I think or feel or what you choose to believe does not change what is. Truth > faith.
    2 points
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Guidelines.