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Showing content with the highest reputation since 08/15/2019 in Posts

  1. 5 points
    Every time a Christian comes here to hear our deconversion stories and engage us in either friendly discussion or debate, the result is consistent. They'll ignore our points and throw out ad hominems and non sequiturs, and then disappear without addressing any of the legitimate points we raise. Call me a reductionist, but I wonder why a Christian publication would be any different than the individual Christians we encounter here.
  2. 5 points
    First off I would say you need to be selfish to a degree. That is to prioritise your needs before giving anything away. Make sure the basics are covered, rent, food, expenses and cut anything like donations until you are in a good place. You need to consider your shopping habits from a need verse luxury view. Do you spend on anything you can do without? Movies, music, dvds, smoking, drinking etc. You don't have to cut it completely but that stuff is low priority and should be a rare treat rather than constant expense. What are your eating habits like? Do you eat out, eat junk or snack constantly? Easy to forget how much we spend on food and massive savings can be made with a bit of effort. Run a food diary for a week or two and make sure you have a clear idea of those costs and potential savings. Sit down and work out a really basic budget. Income on one side, rent, expenses, bills, average monthly costs on the other. Once you have a clear understanding of the amount you have to play with, you can figure out savings verse entertainment. One simplistic method is divide in thirds. One third for rent/mortgage, one third for expenses and one third for saving, spending and the unexpected. This method can work in certain places, but not so much in big cities or high cost areas. Another suggestion is to talk to your bank. Many have advisory services that will help structure your accounts, sort out debt repayments, and make sure what you have is working the best for you. Debt is the other big pitfall. If you have any ability to avoid debt (eg don't take international trips if you have to borrow to do so) then stay debt free. If you have to borrow then make sure you shop around to compare interest rates and fees, especially with the smaller dodgy loan companies, they will aim to ruin you. Make sure that if you are going to use a credit card that you pay it off in full before the interest period.
  3. 4 points
    So in some countries Christians aren't allowed to infect people with their toxic faith. Sweet. Hopefully with enough education and free flow of information, Christianity will wither away and die. The internet really has dealt a major blow to this idiotic religion.
  4. 4 points
    If christians and all other religious fanatics would mind their own business, respect the boundaries and privacy of others, not meddle into the pelvic areas of consenting adults, and keep their personal relationship with their particular deity out of politics, they probably wouldn't be "persecuted." But that would really suck because it would mess up their big ol' martyr complex. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Myth_of_Persecution https://thehumanist.com/magazine/may-june-2017/church-state/great-persecution-christians-myth
  5. 4 points
    But you can help the things written here by you! Trolls and Trolling. How do we define it and who is guilty of trolling? Many members here have been expressing frustration with these "trolling" posts aimed at irritating and insulting ex christian members of this community for no visible good reason, aside from trying to poke at people and get a reaction. It needs to stop now. Pointing at members here and calling them 'troll-ish' (refer to the guidelines above) doesn't justify the trolling that you've been doing. This is where it ends. @florduh @buffettphan
  6. 4 points
  7. 3 points
    Here in DougTuckey Oregon xmass greetings, in a loud ruckus voice, is a battle cry. It's how the masses identify each other and warn intimidate the non-believers. There are more of us than you. We are righteous and you are an evil little piss-ant who puts science above god. You have no rights - including the right to live. We have the right to kill you but Muslims are evil because they think they have the right to kill non-Muslims. Many xitans in this town are not like that and are quite decent and loving but there are enough of those described above that I actually limit activities outside of my home office, like grocery shopping and communicating with Mrs. MOHO, during the xmass season. As I've written here before I am highly motivated to voice my beliefs when appropriate but sometimes it can be downright dangerous. These people run around with their concealed carry permits and go on about how Satan is everywhere and we're prepared. You all know how powerful group dynamics can be. Sorry to be such a Debby Downer but so many of the pastor asshats out there have glomed onto the war on xmass concept as a means of mitigating the mass out-flux of sheeple that it sometimes feels like a war zone here.
  8. 3 points
    The gods of other ancient religions were often a lot like people with superpowers, not really omnipotent or omniscient. Most were regarded as local gods, even if they had creation myths. I think this shows up a lot in the Jewish writings, but believers gloss over it or make excuses. Remember the iron chariots scene? “And the Lord was with Judah; and he drave out the inhabitants of the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron.” —Judges 1:19
  9. 3 points
    I don't recall using the term evidence, however what I'm looking for is verifiable facts (evidence if you like) supporting the rational conclusion that a claim is true or false. For example if I say to you "I have a dog in my back yard", and you say back up the claim, I can provide you with photos, invite you to come to my place, you can see the dog poop, maybe pick it up for me, and most importantly pat and interact with the dog. At that point I've presented you with verifiable facts (evidence) supporting the rational conclusion that there is a dog in my back yard. If I did this to 100 people, notwithstanding any mental disorders, they would all agree that there is a dog in my back yard. At that point we can all reasonably confidently state that it is a fact of reality that there is a dog in my back yard. Now, I tell you there is A transcendent, immaterial, invisible Pink Unicorn in my back yard... evidence for this you ask? Well I have a book, I feel good. I asked the unicorn to find my keys and lo and behold I found them. I had a headache, I prayed to the unicorn and it went away... at that point you be like yeah, nah bro... I mean verifiable evidence. Hopefully that gives you some idea of what I mean by "do you have anything other than the bible to back up your claim".
  10. 3 points
    Materialists Christians need to be stroked in their un belief so they seek out like minds and all get together and commune in their un belief. Sad, I must say.
  11. 3 points
    They may want to point out why our reasons to deconvert are misguided and how we never were true Christian's anyway. Bottom line is Jebus is always number one and people are shit in a Christian's eyes. I wouldn't expect any real empathy or understanding from a Christian publication.
  12. 3 points
    Ezekiel was talking about something he expected to happen soon. He made other prophecies that didn't come true. It is also probable that many of the people who made the efforts to restore Israel were Christians and Jews who would have interest in it due to their religious beliefs and had likely read the Book of Ezekiel. If someone has a book of prophesies they believe in, and they decide to take the actions to fulfill the prophesies in that book, is that really such a miraculous thing?
  13. 3 points
    I vote with the leave-it-alone group, and for reasons already stated. One of the things that annoys us about Christians is that they want to push their religion upon us — some strongly and some subtly. So in the same vein, we should not do anything that they might interpret as pushing a point of view upon them. I recall once going to lunch at a fast food joint with someone I hadn't known before that day. As we sat down with our burgers, he asked if I minded if he said grace. I said fine, and he put out his hands wanting me to grab on. I did but was extremely uncomfortable with that, and in retrospect I should have said that I was not a Christian but didn't mind if he went forward on his own. It was a one-shot meeting so there was no future to think about.
  14. 3 points
    After reading, I am not seeing how the responses you have received are flawed.
  15. 2 points
    It's a great time of year to be in a foreign country. In Mexico, the commercialization is very low. If you're lucky, *maybe* one person might say 'feliz navidad' to you on Christmas Eve. It's more important than Dec. 25th here. The whole gift exchange thing doesn't occur until King's Day, early January. Right around my birthday, as a matter of fact. Last year I especially enjoyed the nativity display on the town square. It starts off with Joseph, Mary and the animals. But no baby, because he hasn't been born yet! Then in the days leading up to the big day, the wise men are placed in a corner of the plaza and slowly move closer each day. Then on Dec. 25, voila! Baby Jesus is present and the wise men gather around. Not a perfect timeline, but it kinda made me chuckle. This is from Mexico City this last December (attached)
  16. 2 points
    Debunking quackery is a constructive enterprise. Once the door is open to belief in chi, energy fields, meridians, chakras and faith healing, the path eventually leads to trusting your health and well being to crystals, magnets, Goop, homeopathic concoctions or peach pits to cure cancer. "Energy healing" is no different than the Christian superstition of laying on hands. Giving it another name changes nothing. Sorry, I'll never back away from exposing quackery because I've seen the harm it does. With that, I leave you all to your thread with fingers crossed.
  17. 2 points
    No, you can't have it both ways. Either He punishes people for things outside of their control, for thought crimes and for where they were born, or He is just and merciful. You cannot punish people for an infinite time for finite crimes and claim it is justice in any way.
  18. 2 points
    Do you (or did you) believe god was Just, Merciful and All-loving? If so, such a being would not punish people unjustly. The concept of hell, that is punishment for things outside of your control, a permanent punishment for temporary crimes, does not even make sense for such a god. There is no justice in punishing people for being born in the wrong household, or coming to doubt based on the world we see. The very idea is a contradiction to god's nature.
  19. 2 points
    You lost your crutches and now you can’t walk. Alternatives to going back to the crutches: 1. Use a scooter or wheelchair. Find (or better, make) a new purpose. For some, it is what is at hand: work, family. Others find a philosophy or even a non-theistic religion like buddhism. A community or some sort of support network sounds like it might help given that your old support feels hollow. I have known people who sought out buddhist meditation groups, and I have known at least one atheist quaker. 2. Fix your legs. As Midnite Rider said, maybe it is time to see a physician or therapist. Maybe it is biological; maybe it is something else in your life; maybe it is your old religion itself, or having left it. As evidenced by the existence of exchristian.net, religious trauma is a thing . . . . Having left theism, I am still fascinated by religion and the things that people come up with, most recently hinduism. And I still like some of the trappings of the old religion like christmas music. But there is no way I could turn to christianity to find actual purpose in my life; besides the fact that it is all made up, the faith I was raised in was just too toxic.
  20. 2 points
    I would think that if the Bible god really existed we would see unified doctrines and holy text that doesn't conflict with history, science and observable reality. No one would need convincing any more than they would need to be convinced the moon revolves around our planet. We can easily determine that as fact. I can think of nothing that would move me to think that an all powerful, all good, all knowing creator would send people to Hell and drown everything on the planet saving only one family and mating pairs of every insect, marsupial, bird, mammal and bacterium on one little boat that also had to include live food for all those breeding pairs. And all that poop! But you know all the asinine stuff in that convoluted tale of talking snakes and unicorns.
  21. 2 points
    I'm too impatient to sit behind shrubs and whatnot to try to spot gods in the wild in order to study them. mwc
  22. 2 points
    I fucked up most of my good xmas memories when my first marriage imploded. I had really fond memories of songs like Evening in December. Now that just makes me think of all the holidays I missed with my kids. At least one of them still talks to me some, but I really hate that fucking song now. This topic is part of a larger issue, which is having all these really nice, warm fuzzy memories connected to music and holidays and friends completely and utterly destroyed just because you now realize that Jesus isn't real. I see things on Facebook - old friends with their kids all grown up and having families of their own, and I want to 'like' and comment, but then I remember how that's going to go. The questions. The shock and horror. The silence. Awkward! So I don't click anything. I'm the kind of person that really enjoys reconnecting with people from the past. But when your past is fused to christianity and your present is completely divorced from it, reconnecting generally doesn't go well. So christianity basically fucks up everything in its wake. I should probably convert this into a blog post or essay. Sorry for dumping on your thread.
  23. 2 points
    I'm pretty sure the rest of that quote is something like ".....but god, if he exists, knows what that would be" which is kind of where I am with it. I don't personally believe anything would ever bring back to christianity, short of some sort of personal experience. But even then, I don't know that christian dogma is the same as a spiritual experience. I'm solidly agnostic, in general, because I think we should humble enough to just say we don't know. It's one thing to wonder about the universe and all the things that could be out there, but to claim existential truths as a little primate is amusing to me.
  24. 2 points
    "Right" has no place in politics. Might makes right, always did and always will. Was it right for England to keep her colonies, including us, by force? Is it right that America, since breaking away from England, is doing the same things England did and does? But to your original question, I think the southern slaves thought it was right.
  25. 1 point
    Being a person-pleaser is perfectly okay, provided you remember you are also a person.
  26. 1 point
    This post has been a long time coming, I feel it to be a necessity in order for me to truly move on. I joined this site June of 2013 and it served as a new community after severing ties with my church circles. Over time, I've talked to some incredible people, some I've had the privilege of meeting in person. I've even found relationships here, twice, something that I didn't expect from a forum of this nature. That's not to say that I've gotten along with everyone but that's inevitable when you gather many individuals with separate life experiences all in one place. Many who were with me on this journey are now long gone from the site and thus, perhaps it's time I follow in their footsteps. There are several reasons why I'm choosing this route. I see this site as a sort of medicine, a kind or treatment for people who have been negatively affected by Christianity. I'm at the point where I hardly think about it in a daily basis, the days where I was a church drone are in the distant past now as well as any residual emotions that came along with them. I think it is safe to say that I have completed the recovery cycle and have moved on to other things, other groups, other interests, etc. There is no sense in continuing to take the medicine if you aren't afflicted with the condition it was intended to heal. There is nothing more that I can gain from this site or contribute. Sure, I might encourage new non believers here every once in a while but there are those here who feel more passionate about it and thus will do a much better job than me. On top of this, an ideological rift has formed between me and the majority of the members here. I don't think these differences are reconcilable, the tribal nature of humanity precludes that from ever happening. I suppose that I've found my tribe elsewhere at this point. I would like to thank everyone who recently commented on the thread where my father passed away. I much appreciate the advice and encouragement. The same goes for everyone who is still reading me and have done the same in other instances. Right now I will reach out and say my goodbyes to some of the members here via PM. Once they all reply, I will ask Margee or one of the mods to permanently delete my profile. Anyways, that is all I have to say for now.
  27. 1 point
    You've come to the wrong place. One cannot prove a negative. We can't prove Santa doesn't exist anymore than we can prove that gods don't exist. The burden is upon believers to prove (1) there is a god and (2) the writings we've come to know as the Bible are actually that god's word. Again, all this Bible/God shit isn't your problem, it's a symptom. We are not mental health professionals. We can only point out the fallacies of Christian beliefs but it gets tiresome doing that when you can't/won't accept the answers and source material. You say "please answer the question" but I would say "please listen to the fucking answers."
  28. 1 point
    That undifferentiated center is the Tao, Nirvana, the neoplatonists’ One. Heraclitus used the analogy of a bow and bowstring to illustrate it; you have to pull both ways (one interpretation). Not to say that everything has to be both good and bad. Of human behavior, I think it is more like, the capacity for good implies the capacity for evil. If we were robots mindlessly carrying out preprogrammed instructions, there would be neither good nor evil. Our capacity to think, “I am going to choose this action because it is for the common good, even though I personally could do better,” it implies that we could have thought, “I am going to get mine even if it means ruining everybody else.”
  29. 1 point
    I’m glad to have found a group here! I was raised in a rather lukewarm Catholicism as a child, but became very fundamentalist catholic in my late teens/early 20s in a desperate attempt to find meaning and be “pleasing to god”. Of course, being false, I never found meaning and living according to the dictates of religion was the cause of many, many poor decisions. I’m in my 30s and now extricating myself from a religious mindset and living my life on my terms. I’m looking forward to being a part of the group here, and I’ll make a longer post in the testimony section at some point!
  30. 1 point
    He didn't exactly seem the type to "turn the other cheek", that's for sure.
  31. 1 point
    Welcome! After decades of studying religions I decided that the closest thing to true religion is a statement attributed to Jesus, and wise people before him, which is to Love neighbor as self. Or the golden rule, etc. To me it is simple, rational, humane thinking. I believe leaving the Catholic church was a very wise decision. Much of their history is of being one of the most greedy, corrupt, pompous, institutions in the world.
  32. 1 point
    So much so they have set regular meeting times on a specific day to do this!
  33. 1 point
    "That which has been is that which will be, And that which has been done is that which will be done. So there is nothing new under the sun." Ecc 1:9
  34. 1 point
    He's a dad, and a good one. If only he had a sense of humor.
  35. 1 point
    Surferdude must not be in a hurry to solve his problems. He hasn't come back to give any specifics about his situation.
  36. 1 point
    I too am 47 and was indoctrinated with camels and needles and such. My catholic priest took a vow of poverty to renounce his worldly possessions. He said that “Without money we would all be rich.” How is your relationship with money unhealthy? Do you waste money? Is money dirty? The root of all evil? I choose to view my frugal attitude towards money as generally a good thing. Our dying planet does not need more consumers. I lead a simple life, growing my own food, shopping at second-hand stores, and teaching my kids to do the same. I do own my own house so of course this makes a big difference. It means that I don’t need a large income or need to work full-time. I would rather have the extra time than the extra cash. My only regret is that I haven’t saved much money for my retirement, so like you, I have some catching up to do. In past eras, extended family would look after their elderly, community would look after the poor. Perhaps that is what is meant by “Without money we would all be rich”?
  37. 1 point
    Pretty ingenious idea using quasars to be the RNG. Benjamin Libet's experiment in free will: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OjCt-L0Ph5o Have you checked out the delayed choice quantum eraser experiment? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6HLjpj4Nt4
  38. 1 point
    Can you imagine enjoying paradise knowing your loved ones were sent to hell? Maybe god wipes away our human empathy to make sure we are guaranteed happiness? And why the hell would a loving god build a torture chamber at all?
  39. 1 point
    @Rickswordfish Watch this video from a biblical scholar. This is the best short rebuttal I've seen of the 'prophesy' and covers many things not talked about.
  40. 1 point
    I was confirmed by Archbishop Philip Wilson, also convicted (then exonerated) for covering up child sex abuse. The local Catholics still defend him...
  41. 1 point
    I'm not sure if anybody is enjoying or benefiting from this any longer. If y'all really do enjoy asking questions to a broken record let me know. I don't want to stop anyone's fun.
  42. 1 point
    Luth would probably think it was a "stupid game" if one of us kept saying that to him.
  43. 1 point
    The South wanted to break away because they were afraid that the election of Lincoln would prevent the spread of slavery to new territories in the west (it was a part of the Republican platform and even in the South he did reasonably well during the election so it wasn't "the people" that were afraid of these politics). So when he won South Carolina immediately seceded. A year later others followed. It was during this year that the federal Fort Sumter was taken by South Carolina. Without going into all the details this is essentially what started the war. It wasn't Lincoln who struck any first blows but he didn't let it go either. The people were extremely loyal to their states and followed along with the cause (pretty much on either side). People who disagreed went to war against their own families. So he basically did what he was supposed to do as the President. In that sense it was "right." Doesn't make it any less tragic. I suppose we might say his motivations were better than those on the opposing side who simply wanted to preserve slavery (among other "traditions") and were willing to go to whatever extremes in order to do so but he was far from noble and if you ask native Americans you'll get a different opinion of him (and other presidents). mwc
  44. 1 point
    Yes, I'm replying to myself. Just for clarity. What I meant was what we perceive as a soul is just our brain activity. Our brain is advanced enough that is has self-awareness that some confuse with, or have been told since birth, is a soul.
  45. 1 point
  46. 1 point
    How about I introduce PA as an inherent part of EVERY christian variety of denomination? And here's the basis for the claim. There isn't such a thing as any christian denomination or non-denominational christian believer who DOESN"T presuppose the truth of the bible, while claiming the truth of the bible. Because there exists zero confirmation for establishing the truth of these biblical claims we've outlined - a god exists, that god or gods altogether created the universe and earth, the god gives special revelation to humans and inspires biblical writings, etc., etc. Technically, according to the link, not all apologist's are PA. There are evidential and other varieties listed. But I beg to differ with the wiki link in the above outlined way. Because it doesn't matter what type of apologetic's is used, at the end of the day all of the major truth claims oriented around the bible (listed above) funnel down to presuppositional foundations according to what I've outlined. That's literally where the debate currently sits. I've asked for evidence. What I've received are PA responses for several pages instead of evidence, as if presupposition is substantial evidence in and of itself. Dave saw what has been going on and pointed it out in the side gallery. I then took in the apologetic style and compared it to predestination which is why we're discussing it here at the moment. I did not grow up technically knowing or understanding PA, but nevertheless, and without the label, that's basically what I was doing and what I believed. The bible proves it's own claims, the bible altogether, through christianity, is automatically superior to all other world views and religions. I thought that poking holes at other world views demonstrated the superiority of the bible. I was greatly mistaken. And that's why I wager that all christians are presuppositional because there is no other option on the table available to anyone. If there were another option, why has it not been offered? And further more, for heaven's sake, where is the alternative option that proves the bible without presupposing that it's true apriori? We could discuss here a bit and argue the point I'm making above if you prefer. And here everyone else can chime in if they disagree with me about this - a sort of ex-C peer review if you will. Maybe the point seems too radical? Feel free to chime in.
  47. 1 point
    "There are some very fine people on both sides."
  48. 1 point
    I got about a third into Dawkins Delusion and gave up. He, in the end ISTM, is attacking one section of Christianity and does himself no service. And too strident for my liking. As for formally defecting from the RCC....you will know best what to do. But it reminds me of an incident at the birth of one of our children (many years ago). The local Anglican priest visited her during which visit she told him that she was a Congregationalist. His reply was revealing: 'Never mind, dear'. An aside (is it?!): just read about a man being raised from the dead and another having 17000 demons cast out of him in a pentecostal meeting. You see? What craziness and manipulation some churches are into.
  49. 1 point
    I have to agree with the above. The presuppositionalism is a dead end road. It's not evidence based and can't prove anything. The gigs up, basically. 5 pages of opportunity to come in strong with hard evidence should have left plenty of opportunity to do so. But no hard evidence was provided. Newbies, lurker's and whoever else can read through and contemplate the whole thing. If some new apologist comes forward and wants to continue on where Luth has failed, then I will hear them out unless they too devolve to mindless trolling and trying to aggravate members.
  50. 1 point

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