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Showing content with the highest reputation on 10/14/2019 in Posts

  1. 3 points
    As god is all-loving, it loves everything and everyone. It loves the little girl, as much as it loves her tormentors. And hence it doesn't interfere in anything at all. So everything and anything goes. If it was not the case, then we would have seen the tormentors struck down by lightning or something! This could mean that the definition of god needs to be re-done. A god cannot be then called omni-potent or omniscient. The Eastern-religion's idea of god as consciousness/awareness/wokeness/all-is-one makes more sense then. If the tormentors raised their consciousness/awareness, they would realize that their victim shares the same consciousness and is not separate from them. This will deter them from harming the girl. So the bottomline is that everything is within us, I can be one of the tormentors but my conscience wouldn't allow me to do that. So the ability to prevent some bad doings, or to promote the same lies within me. I simply need to raise my awareness and I will know if I am going to do something bad that I will be doing it against myself. For example, the idea behind nature-worship is the same. If people do not do nature-worship, they will see nature as separate from themselves and will act in ways that will destroy nature/environment which is a life-giving source. This problem can only be solved by re-defining the concept of God. The belief-based god mentioned in the Bible doesn't really cut it to solve real-world problems like that of the little girl. The very premise that - if you do not worship me, you will go to hell - should give one an idea if this really is the case or if it is a tool to control people.
  2. 1 point
    Evil does not invariably prevail?!! How so? Hitlers reign came to an end only after he inflicted immeasurable pain and death to millions. How did evil not prevail?! I live in a town where there was a serial killer in the early 70s killing children. He was never caught. I've been to a country in Latin America where women and children and elderly living in rural areas are regularly abused and killed with no consequence because there is virtually no police presence. When the police are involved, they are easily bribed. You need only to study or travel slightly outside whatever physical and mental confines you live within to understand that happy endings are random . . . and certainly never guaranteed. But let me guess . . . In order to make sense of a god that would allow this kind of shit through his masterful purpose for everyone, you have to believe that karma will come in the afterlife . . . Unless of course the evil culprit pulls a Ted Bundy . . . .confesses all sins and no matter how atrocious his earthly sins were, he (or she) is forgiven and there is no justice. I remember as a kid my mom telling me the story of a Nazi who came to know Christ - of course AFTER he murdered who knows how many Jews. All those unsaved Jews were murdered and then went straight to hell because, afterall, they didnt believe Jesus Christ was their lord and savior. But the Nazi guard, well he bypassed hell. I couldn't make sense of this as a child. Tell me, how does this make sense to a Christian?
  3. 1 point
    Can't remember the exact age that I first thought "oh yes the earth is 6,000 years old" - but this was taught as fact from birth, so for me I've heard about it since birth. Like D, once the YEC failures starting raising doubts I looked into other areas that I'd once considered fact and discovered it wasn't so.
  4. 1 point
    I was raised to be a YEC. It took an embarrassingly long time for me to move on. On the plus side, though, the realization that that part was bull led me to question what other parts might also be, and here we are.
  5. 1 point
    Remember----I specifically said I am working toward demonstrating whether edgarcito's original premise has merit. I don't really care about the existence of deity in general; but, rather, the specific deity in question.
  6. 1 point
    Bear in mind that the deity in question, and in fact all deities, are of by necessity human invention. The mistake that was made when coming up with the OT mean god turned NT nice god was to assign him the qualities of omniscience, omnipresence and omnipotence. Added to that were the assumptions that this god was all good and all loving. Clearly, real life would indicate that no such entity exists. Of course this doesn't prove that there isn't a deity in charge that keeps his hands off human affairs and just watches as we self destruct within his world of randomness. And obviously, it is also not incumbent on anyone to disprove any of the myriad god assertions men have made over the millennia. If one proposes a god then let him bring forth evidence for it. I will not and cannot craft arguments against the existence of Jehovah, Zeus, Apollo, Santa or the tooth fairy.
  7. 1 point
    I think politics is in the same, ''sham category'' as Religion. It's all bogus, fraudulent and misleading. People are frustrated and tired of all the promises only to see a few ever taken care of. I don't really believe most of the ''higher uppers'' in politics really give a damn about the low to middle class people. I had a best friend who is now an upper class person (and quite rich I might add) because her husband is very involved and high up in politics. You would never think she was once my best friend she's such a snob. Canada is no different with low voters..People have lost hope. We have the same fights here in Canada as the Us and anywhere else in the world. At least the U.S. is so much more fun to watch... as much as I feel terrible about what is happening to the U.S and it's people and I do think they better get out and vote to get the poisonous, traitor who is their president out of office.. Our Canadian politics are totally boring except when our Prime Minister dresses up in his many costumes. He likes to fit in with everyone. Lol But after the votes are in, we don't get a say on anything anymore. They make the decisions once they are in and we are left to like it or lump it once they change their minds about an issue being the ''big head guy'' now. We've almost become a communist country with so many god-damned rules at what you can do and what you can't do, it's not freedom. Yeah, we are allowed to open our own business and many others things that give people the illusion that people are 'free'... but we are not. They say we have free healthcare? Nope. We pay lot's of taxes to go along with the 'free' health care. The cost of living is through the elfin' roof here. Most people I know are struggling to make ends meet and both partners have jobs. People are discouraged and that why the numbers of voters is way down. I think politics and having these fantastic, intelligent leaders (you know...we humans must be governed!) is a laugh. It is a hoax and part of the '' keep you under control system.'' Most politicians eventually turn somewhat corrupt once they learn how the system works.. I guess you can see I am discouraged? I think I am just going to vote for the most handsome one running..or maybe the prettiest woman. Or not vote at all. Don't get me totally wrong. I am very grateful for the things I have and I understand that I am very lucky person to be born in a relatively, sane part of the earth. Pessimist..... over and out..... Lol
  8. 1 point
    I have no idea why you should all have the same discernment at the same time, nor what it would accomplish. That was not the point I was making. It seems to me, though, that there should be more consistency in interpretation, if an omniscient god were making a genuine effort to reveal himself.
  9. 1 point
    Assuming that the "input" was an omniscient and omnipotent god, yes.
  10. 1 point
    Edgarcito. That transcript was an example of two devout Christians finding it impossible to reason with each over just one verse. When you read the transcript you arrived at a different understanding to theirs. "I'm gathering Paul considered himself one with Christ as Jesus was one with the Father?" Then you said that you didn't actually hold with your initial assumption. "I personally don't agree with that because Paul also mentions doing things he doesn't wish to do on occasion." So, that's three different Christians, arriving at four different understandings of just one verse. There are over 31,000 verses in the whole Bible and billions of Christians in thousands of different denominations, sects and cults, within which there are different shades of opinion, different interpretations and different personal positions on various issues of translation, authenticity and exegesis. Do you really think that billions of Christians can successfully reason with each other over the billions of possible interpretations they all have of scripture? When two Christians fail to do so over one just one verse? ?
  11. 1 point
    Sometimes I like to sport some Pagan/Witchy looking stuff. It pisses people off. Obviously I don't expect spells to work any more than Christian prayers do. But Pagan and Satanic shit looks cool and causes comments. I'm a troublemaker.
  12. 1 point
    It seems to me that most christians learn to be christians by imitating those who are, presumably, imitating christ: parents, pastors, Sunday school teachers, youth leaders, etc. Doesn't need to be as difficult as what Barbara was making it.
  13. 1 point
    B. What it says is not what it means, though! ... Why doesn't it just say what it means then?
  14. 1 point
    Ok then. Joshpantera and the RedneckProfessor want to see the transcript. Here it is. The Bible study begins with a prayer of dedication, lead by Rob, one of the church elders. He asked if there were anyone we knew who was in need of prayer. Then, after a few notices and announcements we checked to see if we could all make it to the next Bible study. Rob then handed over to me. I began with another prayer, asking the Holy spirit to guide me in Jesus’ name. Then I asked everyone to open their Bibles to 1 Corinthians 10, so that we could do a quick recap of the last meeting. We looked at verses 23 to 33 for about ten minutes and I asked if anyone had any questions. There weren’t any. I then asked everyone to read the whole of chapter 11, verse by verse, each person following the next. I lead off with verse 1. When we reached the end of 11, I asked if anyone had received a blessing or word from the Holy Spirit while God’s Word was being read out. If that had been the case, I would have yielded to Rob, because he had authority over me in spiritual matters like this. Nobody had, so I proceeded to lead the study, focusing on verse 1. After a few minutes a lady called Barbara spoke up, querying what I was saying about the verse. I’ll begin the transcript from this point. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- B. I believe that 1 Cor 11: 1 is telling us to imitate Christ. Me. Yes, that’s right. I agree. All Christians should imitate Christ. That’s the message for us, here, today. And it was also the message for all Christians, down through the ages. But that’s not what Paul was saying to the Corinthians. B. Yes, it is. If all Christians should imitate Christ, then the Corinthians should do the same and imitate him. Me. Yes. The Corinthians should do that. But that’s not what Paul says in his letter, is it? B. Yes, it does. Paul is telling the Corinthians to imitate Christ. ‘Imitate me as I imitate Christ.’ Me. Who is Paul telling them to imitate, Barbara? B. Jesus Christ. Me. Please read the verse again. It says, ‘Imitate me as I imitate Christ.’ Paul’s asking them to imitate him, as he imitated Christ. Isn’t that what it says? B. But that’s not what Paul’s telling them to do. He’s telling them to imitate Christ. That’s his message. Me. Barbara, please. Just look at what the text says before drawing a conclusion about the message. Who is Paul telling the Corinthians to imitate, himself or Christ? B. Christ, of course. Me. No. I’m sorry, that’s not what it says. Could you please read it out to us? B. ‘Imitate me as I imitate Christ.’ Me. So, who is Paul telling the Corinthians to imitate? Himself or Christ? B. Christ. That’s what Paul means. He wouldn’t have meant for them to imitate him, because he wanted them to imitate Christ, not him. Me. Barbara, please think about this for a minute. Had any of the Corinthians ever met Christ in person? B. Why yes, of course. They were born-again Christians, just like us. Saved by the blood of the lamb. We’ve all met Christ and know him personally. He’s our saviour and lord. The Corinthians were just the same. They knew and met Christ. Me. Ah. I can see why you’re confused and it’s my fault. B. I’m not confused! You’re the one who’s not really understanding the meaning of this verse. Me. Barbara, please let me explain. When I asked you if the Corinthians had met Christ, I should have added, ‘met him in the flesh’. That is, ‘met him when he lived in the Holy land.’ It’s my fault for not asking the question properly. Of course, none of the Corinthians had been in Israel to actually meet Jesus when he was alive. When he was preaching or when he ministered to the sick and the needy. The Corinthians came to know about Jesus Christ through the missionary work of Paul. They had never met Christ in person. So, when he writes to them, telling them to imitate him as he imitates Christ, he’s telling them to copy him as he copies Jesus. He met Jesus on the road to Damascus. That was his meeting with Christ, in the flesh. Ok, with the resurrected Christ. So, Christ was in his new body, his resurrected flesh – but Paul counts that as meeting Jesus in the flesh. Which is something none of the Corinthians ever did. They only knew Jesus spiritually, through the workings of the Holy Spirit. Which is a quite different thing. Do you see what the verse means, now? B. Yes, Walter. It means that the Corinthians should imitate Christ. Which is what I said before. Me. Umm… sorry. I meant can you see what the verse means, now that I’ve explained what Paul wrote about the Corinthians imitating him - who they had seen in the flesh - so that they could imitate Christ - who they hadn’t seen in the flesh? B. Yes. I can see what you mean, all right. The Corinthians should imitate Christ. That’s what Paul wanted them to do. Me. But who had they seen in the flesh, Barbara? Jesus or Paul? B. Paul. Me. So who is Paul asking them to imitate? B. Jesus Christ, the son of God. Me. That’s his aim, yes. To get them to imitate Christ. But how is he asking them to do that? Not by copying or imitating Christ, because none of them had ever met Christ in the flesh. But to imitate him, right? To imitate Paul. Because they had seen him in the flesh. Do you see that? B. But Paul wouldn’t have wanted to them to imitate him! He wanted them to imitate Christ! That’s who he saying they should imitate! It’s there. In the text. Me. That’s the meaning of the text. No doubt about it. But that’s not what the text actually says, is it? ‘Imitate ME as I imitate Christ.’ ME. PAUL. Not Jesus. Can’t you see that, Barbara? B. What it says is not what it means, though! Paul doesn’t mean that they should imitate him! They should imitate Christ! Paul was just a man. He wasn’t God. What you’re suggesting is that Paul wanted the Corinthians to see him as God. As Christ. That’s not what he wanted at all! You shouldn’t read things into the text that aren’t there, Walter! Me. Barbara. That’s not what I’m doing. Please. Just think for a minute. You’ve known me for fifteen years in this church and when have I ever suggested anything like this. I’ve always been very careful about how I divide God’s Word. If I was ever in doubt, I’d seek out Rob or Jeff or one of the other elders. Or Mike himself. (The pastor) B. But that’s what you’re doing now! You’re implying that Paul wanted the Corinthians to treat him like God! Me. No. I’m not. B. Yes! Yes, you are! (Rob intervenes, using his authority as an elder to stop the quarrel. He calls for a time of prayer and peace and then asks Barbara and I to put the dispute behind us. To forgive each other and be reconciled in our love for Jesus Christ. The meeting breaks up shortly afterwards.) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- So, if it's impossible for two devout Christians to reason with each other over the meaning of just one verse in the Bible, what hope is there that skeptics and non-believers could do any better? None, I'd say. Thank you. Walter.
  15. 1 point
    That person would not be a real christian anyway.
  16. 1 point
    I believe it can be done. But that you'll only get somewhere with a Christian who has critical thinking skills and is ready to accept that there could be another reality outside of theirs. If they aren't, it's pointless.
  17. 1 point
  18. 1 point
    My circumstance was somewhat similar. I was raised in a Christian-by-default (though un-churched family). My mother joined the RCC and a few years later I followed suit. I was drawn by the regal formality of it and assumed that Christianity must be right----especially since eternal damnation was said to be the result of assuming otherwise. The inconsistencies in Christian theology began to brew in my subconscious and when they came to the surface I went through a terrible period of psychological and emotional torment. I'm convinced that finally accepting the reality of those inconsistencies literally saved my sanity.
  19. 1 point
    How can you tell a vegan? You don’t have to; they'll tell you. Over and over.
  20. 1 point
    It is said that vegetarian is an old Indian word. Means "poor hunter."


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