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  1. Gather round young children I have a story to tell. about our ancestor whom we wish well. His name was Adam and we are his progeny. God his creator had not just one cause but many. blah blah blah Time to delve into the Adam and eve story once more dear readers. This time I am going to highlight the most obvious god fail I have seen thus far and reinforce the servant/slave concept that exists in the creation story. First I will start by pointing out our cause for creation was simple and that was to work the fields that god created us to serve him like a good slave. Genesis 2:5 5 Now no shrub had yet appeared on the earth[a] and no plant had yet sprung up, for the Lord God had not sent rain on the earth and there was no one to work the ground This is the cause for creation. God needed a worker to tend to the fields. Since god of course cant tend to the fields himself he creates a servant to do the work for him. Genesis 2:15 The Lord God took the man and put him in the Garden of Eden to work it and take care of it So we have established that the reason god wanted to create man was not for company it was not for companionship it was because he needed a servant to take care of his garden. The only verses that give us insight for a desire to create man come from these two spots. This makes a ton of sense actually if you understand that we are not "gods children" if you replace children with servant or slave the bible makes a lot more sense. Now the most obvious fail I have seen in this story to date. The bible admits God failed. It just straight up says that god couldn't get it done right. Genesis 2:18-2 The Lord God said, “It is not good for the man to be alone. I will make a helper suitable for him.” 19 Now the Lord God had formed out of the ground all the wild animals and all the birds in the sky. He brought them to the man to see what he would name them; and whatever the man called each living creature, that was its name. 20 So the man gave names to all the livestock, the birds in the sky and all the wild animals. But for Adam[f] no suitable helper was found. Not only does this reinforce the concept that we were slaves for gods plantation that was Eden, but he also failed the first time he sought out to create a suitable helper. Lets take the highlighted red and put it into 1 sentence. The LORD God said... I will make a helper suitable for him...But for Adam no suitable helper was found. Its plain to see there is no context that changes the fact that God could not make a suitable helper the first time around. He couldn't do it the first time. Not to mention the "helper" that was suitable for him also ruined the whole S&M thing god and Adam had going on by teaching Adam he didn't need to be God's slave. The Adam and Eve story is so full of failure on God's behalf it really makes me wonder why I didn't see this before. Its hiding in plain site.
    4 points
  2. How did you find out that they were Christians? If it's because they tried to convert you or can't talk about anything except Christianity, be friendly at work but look elsewhere for new friends and don't get emotionally entangled with them. If it was something tangentially mentioned, treat it like you just found out that they like a sport or music genre that you dislike. If you were the one who brought up religion, drop it and appreciate that you can make friends who aren't identical to you.
    3 points
  3. Rachel, I'm so sorry hon that you had you go through all this in your life. You are right, it is insanity. When the church gets control of people's minds and they use the fear of god as a tool, anything can happen. I have been so bitter through my deconversion that I thought for sure I would bring about a heart attack on myself, the 'hate' was so strong. The confusion a person goes through when they wake up can be just terrible. I validate your anger. Cry those buckets of tears. It was only when I started to cry and let out the anger that my physical body started to get better. I had made myself sick with hate. Validate that anger for yourself then try to brush yourself off and begin a brand new life. Just take one small step at a time. What can you do to start all over? Have you made a plan? Do you have the strength? Do you have the desire? Maybe, Ex-c can help you begin. Keep posting sweetheart. You don't have to be alone in this. We know what you're going through. Huge hug for you today.
    3 points
  4. The pastor looks nervously around and says, "Uhhhh, well, I know there are inconsistencies between the bible and reality...but uhh... you must have faith! Stop thinking! Rational thought comes from the Satan, the great deceiver...."
    2 points
  5. Welcome to ExC, greylee. I understand what you mean about wishing God were real. That longing is not uncommon at all. Here are some things that helped me: 1. Defining terms. When you say you don't believe in God, I am sure you mean the God of the Bible. What helped me come to terms with my non-belief was simply to say that I do not believe the God of the Bible exists. Remember, it is a staple of the Christian religion that the God of the Bible is the one and only God. By saying that one doesn't believe in God (meaning the Christian version of God) and, therefore, there could not be some other deity of some sort is the Christian teaching leading one that way. For me, realizing this and understanding that it is at least possible that there may be a deity or deities of one sort or another, softened the blow considerably. By the way, my further view is that if there is a deity or are deities out there somewhere and he/she/it/they want me to know about his/her/its/their existence, he/she/it/they must make his/her/its/their existence known to me. No deity has done that so either they do not exist or, if they do exist, they simply don't care if I know about them. If they do exist and they don't care if I know about them, then I don't care whether they exist either. 2. Understanding the character of the God of the Bible. Christians love to portray this deity as a loving, kind, and gentle being who always looks out for us and is always there for us. However, the Bible tells a completely different story. This is the God who, according to the Bible, ordered genocide, stonings, blood letting of animals, would not forgive absent the terrible death of his own son, created hell, Satan, and Demons and refuses to dispose of them, and on and on it goes. Really studying the Character of this eternal monster helped me with my transition. Frankly, I'm glad to be rid of the concept of this alleged God in my mind. Best of luck to you.
    2 points
  6. This is interesting: http://etb-pseudoscience.blogspot.co.uk/2012/04/christians-debunk-resurrection-of.html?m=1
    2 points
  7. I think about the terrible things I've experienced. The human pain and suffering, the agonising deaths from numerous terminal diseases and the fact that most of the world lives in conditions far worse than most of us deal with in the United States. All in all, it's a rough world filled with hate, suffering and fear. What actually helps me is knowing that there isn't some all powerful sky daddy who would will such suffering and pain. I figure when it comes to god, you have to take the good and the bad and you have to deal with the fact that all the absolutely terrible things in this world are also due to this so called god. Then, consider the reward if you measure up to this god, an eternity of singing praise to god while you exist in a form that apparently has little to no humanity. Unfortunately, if you are not among the chosen few that spend eternity praising The Lord, your consolation prize is an eternity of suffering where your skin apparently can grow back so it can be burned off in a never ending cycle of burning? Honestly, after really taking the time to understand what the existence of the Abrahamic god would mean, I'm much happier living in a universe where "stuff" just happens and there are no divine entities who are actively trying to make life miserable for us, but rather it's up to us to find happiness and meaning. My thoughts are with you. It sounds like you have family and friends you love. Focus on them and look to all the great things in your life. It was tough for me to realise that everything good I know will go away, but at least I can enjoy and revel in this moment while it lasts. The fact that our existence is limited is what makes it so precious and wonderful. The good news is you don't have to worry about securing a place among the chosen few in a boring afterlife theme park. You are free to enjoy life now without all the divine guilt that comes attached to trying living a full and happy life as a human being.
    2 points
  8. Maybe before the thread gets locked, I could say something quickly, and hopefully I won't need to dodge any cannon balls. *army crawls through thread just in case* I don't think there is anything wrong with you for being attracted to someone of that age. After reading lots of what has been posted above (though I skimmed through quite a bit of it), it got me thinking. Here is a hypothetical situation: Let's say this 15 year old girl lived very nearby and was attracted to you as well. If that was the case and you did become sexually active and there was an equal amount of consent from both sides, though it would be illegal, I don't think it would be immoral or wrong. It makes me think that there should be some better regulations for this stuff, something between 0 protection for young teens from predators and the other extreme of treating an 18 year old who has had sex with someone below the age of consent, even if the younger person gave 100% consent, as some sort of terrible monster that is forced to wear a sign around their neck for many years that says "SEX OFFENDER" on it. What the perfect middle ground could be, I honestly do not know, but there needs to be some kind of middle ground or option C that is better than options A and B, especially when "sex offender" makes the majority of people instantly think, "That person must be some kind of an abusive rapist!" For the second part, I don't know 100% for certain that you are bi, though I do have a good reason to believe it is possible. From what I can tell, it seems you're still figuring out your sexuality and learning what you like and don't like, so it's probably not a good idea to make the conclusion that you are bi and just label yourself as such until you have figured everything out.
    2 points
  9. http://www.demilked.com/surreal-self-portraits-14-year-old-fiddle-oak/ The boy has an eye for art! Genius maybe? Superb work!
    1 point
  10. The hardest thing for me is understanding and processing that people simply just do not care, they just dont. I have always cared about everyone as much as I can, and that has been a lot, I have lot of natural empathy. The cognitive dissonance this shit causes me has been frying my brain for decades. I think though the truth is finally starting to get through. I have two ladies that have been my friends for a very long time. Neither of them want to discuss how badly this rift with my daughter has hurt me. I tried with one on ther weekend and she changed the subject twice. I didn't push it, but I am very sad that she doesn't care how I feel. The other one was doing her school reports and could not even find half an hour just to sit with me whiel I vented. I have listened to these people vent to me for decades, but they cannot find time for me anymore. I just don't get it. I can't afford to see my therapist at the moment, and if I don't get the shit inside of me out, it starts to eat holes in my soul. I thought they would have understood and appreciated that after knowing me all theseyears, but no. One would rather discuss recipes and knitting (FFS!) and the other just, well is too busy I guess. I have never done things expecting to get things back, I just thought life was about reciprocity from a loving heart. Silly me. So now along with the fury at my daughter for causing a rift between us over practically nothing, now I am angry at my friends for not caring. I just love being alive.
    1 point
  11. Positivist: I thought my wife was the only one. She saves wasps. Well, the bible god saves nothing. I am proud of my wife ---and you. I am not at all proud of the bible god.
    1 point
  12. "God told Eve about her seed crushing the head of the serpent. Christions see that as a reference to Jesus." What a remarkable prophesy! So specific. We can narrow it down to one out of about 10 billion people. Could there be any doubt that Eve's seed crushing the serpent's head was referring to Jesus? No one can deny this exact prophesy. bill
    1 point
  13. Damn, son! God just got SERVED!!!!
    1 point
  14. "Has anyone mentioned yet that a loving parent doesnt leave dangerous items around to tempt their children? "Now Johnny, dont play with that loaded .357 that I am leaving right here in plain sight on the coffee table... for if you mess with it you shall surely die...ok Johnny, I'm leaving the room now...remember don't play with the .357...right there...wink wink." Such a good analogy cant believe I didn't think about that earlier. Storing that one in the ole memory banks =D.
    1 point
  15. There is still a problem here. The tree they were not to eat from only gave them a sense of right and wrong, not an overwhelming desire, that they could not resist, to do wrong. Their god never mentioned anything before hand about, "If you eat from this tree, I will punish you both unfairly, so that the gullible woman, who I made gullible in the first place, would receive the worst punishment for being gullible enough to listen to the snake. I will curse every human after you so that they will all die and they will all be born with an irresistible desire to do evil." Clearly their god did not let them "read the fine print on the contract" so he is equally as corrupt as Adam and Eve became, which he forced them to become. What happened was El became upset because the humans in the story learned things that only El and the other gods were supposed to know, so he forced Adam and Eve to become corrupted because they "knew too much". They knew what God said, and they knew the consequences. The punishments could have been the result of the blaming game they played afterward, and or their attempt to hide themselves from God. Adam didn't just blame the woman, he also blamed God as well. Another way of looking at it could be, those punishments were actually God's mercy on them. If God really did mean they would fall down dead after they ate of this tree, the punishments He gave them instead was His mercy on them. For instance if we had a contract, and you broke that contract, I'm free to hold you accountable on that thing. Yet I don't have to, and I could be lenient in how I take action against you. Eve received the promise that her seed would crush the serpent's head, giving her (and all of mankind if you believe this is a reference to Jesus) redeemption. So the punishments could have actually been God's leniency. They "heard" what god said but because he had deprived them of the knowledge of good and evil it was like god was talking to developmentally delayed individuals. He set them up to fail.
    1 point
  16. I suppose the next four pages have hashed this over as I'm 12 days behind, but what the heck... "No they didn't have knowledge of good and evil....." "But they had knowledge of evil..." I think if they had their own sense of judgement about things (knowledge of good and evil) they would not need to concern themselves with a tree. It would be irrelevant, redundant. Has anyone mentioned yet that a loving parent doesnt leave dangerous items around to tempt their children? "Now Johnny, dont play with that loaded .357 that I am leaving right here in plain sight on the coffee table... for if you mess with it you shall surely die...ok Johnny, I'm leaving the room now...remember don't play with the .357...right there...wink wink."
    1 point
  17. I felt like a recovering alky working in a bar, so I made a clean break from church. Develop outside social contacts and get away from the propaganda for a while.
    1 point
  18. Thank you for your replies. I suppose what makes it harder for me is that I didn't grow up being taught that I'm supposed to feel guilty for things that I do or even with a fear of hell. Having feelings like that is considered a childish/underdeveloped relationship with god; similar to a child who obeys his parents out of fear of punishment and not because they understand why their parents have ser certain rules for them. So those are things I haven't struggled with since being a teen.
    1 point
  19. why does God have to tell Adam he will return to dust, if Adam already knew he was returning to dust? he had a taste for prose Why does God say he will die if he eats of that tree, if he already knew he was going to die anyway? Why do we have labels on poisons if we are all going to die anyways why do we have labels on things that can kill us heavenese I am not trying to be factious. But your still just formulating your opinions into the bible. Please point out the bible verse that says Adam was immortal? Your argument is as valid as me saying that Adam was African we don't know the skin color of adam because its not recorded is it? the Age is not telling because that could be how long he was supposed to live anyways your whole argument is nothing more than an opinion. Also why give them the need to reproduce if they are going to live forever? you don't know that the fruit changed him physiologically all it is said to have done was given him knowledge of good and evil. I don't think we can argue this point anymore you continue to bring up the same argument even though I have completely established it as a baseless argument both with logic and the bible. I don't know how I can further this discussion if you continue to rehash old arguments without taking into account what I have said. If you will please point out how the Bible supports your position more than mine I would be eager to glean this information. if you are going to claim its from the bible use the bible show me what verses give you this impression if you cant I will just accept that you have conceded the point but you just do not want to admit it. This is fine I understand how hard it is to admit that the bible is not what it is said to have been. This is why I will give you the option either argue your point using the bible and not your opinion or someone else's opinion or we can move back to how Adam and eve did not sin because they did not have the concept of what sin was and the serpent confused what conscience they did have. Your choice if you choose the latter I will accept that you conceded this argument.
    1 point
  20. I understand exactly where your coming from. You truly love your mother and you don't want to do anything that would hurt her. It's really a tough position to be in. I'm sure you are familiar with the word "codependent". You are a codependent to your mother; you are supporting your mother's dependency on her addictive myth. Consider this: If you and your mother were regularly to go out and drink together(An extreme hypothetical, I know, but it will illustrate my point.)and you realize that you both have a drinking problem, what could you do? Your mother loves her drinking and her time with you and doesn't want to stop drinking. She will be hurt and lonely if you quit because it will result in her drinking alone. You love your mother and don't want to hurt her. So, do you continue to drink with her to avoid hurting her? Stop drinking, but continue to meet her while she is drinking? Or, tell her you are going to stop drinking and ask her to do the same, and tell her you will continue to meet her as usual, but not to drink alcohol? Is there any doubt as to what you should do in this hypothetical situation? You are part of her problem. The third alternative is the only good answer. You may think that since you are dealing with religion that this if different. WRONG. Fundamentalist Xtianity is addictive and is every bit as hard as alcoholism to beat. Your pretending that you are a christian contributes to her continued belief in christianity. She thinks it's working for you. It's not and by not telling her that, she is just going to continue this myth within a myth. You must deal in the truth and let the chips fall where they may. If your mother is ever going to accept your decision, the illusion must be shattered. Now it's very possible that your mother may not cooperate with you at all no matter what you do. But you can't solve her problem. She will have to deal with that herself. But your pretense is not helping. However,when you tell her is a different question. The suggestions in the above replies are good. Use your best judgment as to how and when to come clean with her. But your responsibility is to yourself. Good luck
    1 point
  21. Yeah, when I was nine my nose was a total whore. I didn't know one can loose their nose-ginity.
    1 point
  22. It is the ultimate betrayal to have what you believe to be a 'loving god' fail to provide for and protect you through such awful circumstances. To be left realizing no such god ever existed and you were duped is devastating. I am so sorry you have had to endure all this and am now left to feel alone, with a life in tatters. We are here for you! You are not completely alone. Some great advice has been offered above so all I will add is that if you are unable to regroup and do practical things towards your future (you really do have a chance at a decent future) then just wait it out while you do all you can to sustain yourself physically, mentally and emotionally. The intensity of the experience will pass in time so hang in there and simply keep breathing until you have the strength and focus to step forwards.
    1 point
  23. Right. Never disagree with you about anything or else leave the forum forever. You offer me such great choices. Edit: Okay Galien you get a season pass. Say whatever you like. Do whatever you like. Run wild. I will not comment for however long I can last. I'll approach it as a personal challenge. Just don't send me any more PMs. Haven't sent you any PM's this year. I really don't know what you are on about half the time. Must be interesting to be on the inside of your head. Do you honestly think I sit in my house hating you when I don't even know you? I have more than that going on in my life mate. Its like this, please pay attention. We are socialised into believing the things we believe. I have pretty well desocialised myself. I have kept the things I find of value and jettisoned the rest. You still believe the rest. I don't. We are not going to agree on conventional wisdom because I think a lot of it is rubbish. We are never going to convince each other. The point of having a forum is that we do get to run wild with our opinions, it is not going to change the way the world is. But it shouldn't be causing you this much distress. if it is you need to have a look at why. Most of the shit that goes on inside us, is in fact inside us and the way we react to external stimuli. We cannot do much about the external stimuli, but we can do something about our own reactions. Maybe you need to work out why my failure to conform to some conventional ways of thinking causes you such distress. Something to think about.
    1 point
  24. All right. Since all people want to do is argue and don't want to stick to the original topic, can we please lock this thread?
    1 point
  25. What this essentially boils down to is an intellectually bankrupt abuse of mathematical language. I have taken several physics courses in college, so let's look at it from that angle. When we want to model a situation, we make sure to set up a differential equation and solve, making sure that the units are logical and that everything matches up. How does modeling god as infinity work exactly? In calculus, we use infinity as a concept to take limits, derivatives, and integrals. In any case, in what respect would god be infinite? Cubic meters? Kilograms? Assholes that talk about him? Our friend might say that the units don't matter. Yes they do! Otherwise the answers you get are just numbers, and your model is meaningless and abstract. Clearly, this model was made hastily and without much thought. There are much more meaningful ways to describe the Big Bang, such as how much energy the initial explosion involved etc.
    1 point
  26. Someone explained this to me a few years ago by pointing out that we are not the only animal to alter our environment this way. Look at a bee hive, a paper wasps' nest, a bird's nest, a beaver dam. They go well past just digging a hole for their house, and go out an collect material to build structures that "nature" would never have built without them. It's somewhat arrogant to claim that we're so separate from nature and animals that our structures fall into an entirely different category. It's just as silly as claiming that industrialized food is dangerous because it contains "chemicals" (it may well be bad for us for other reasons, but all living things are made out of chemistry so using that as a scare word is pretty ridiculous). On the other hand, I must admit that our structures are often somewhat ugly, smell bad, and sound bad compared to being outdoors. So I do feel a bit of conflict there, when I'm surrounded by people who are scared of getting dirty outside and love to sit around and watch TV for hours. It helps a lot when the weather's nice enough to open some windows (but I do love screens to keep the bugs out) so I can get better smelling air and hear the birds (but I close the windows during a thunderstorm so that my stuff doesn't get wet). I'm not sure yet how exactly to get the good things out of man-made structures and the good things about outside all at once. I have plants in my window at work (since I'm lucky enough to have a real window - that helps), and have a small number of plants outside at home that are edible. I'd like a more convenient way to eat breakfast outside (after making it inside), but I'd still like something overhead like a porch roof or an umbrella, because nothing ruins your meal like bird poo. I guess if keep making an effort to include more "outside time" in my life it'll help me figure out exactly what it is that I want.
    1 point
  27. Take it from me, laughter during the more religious bits is frowned upon.
    1 point
  28. Stop reading my posts and telling my parents. This site is supposed to be confidential. You're a jerk and a jack ass whoever you are. Thanks also for hurting my folks. Good Christian actions. NOT.
    1 point
  29. I like Gary's article but his use of the word religion I think can be a little misleading. Modern Pantheists tend to be outside of any religion in an organized religion sense. He's using the term religion where belief would have been more appropriate. Pantheism is a type of belief and philosophy more so than a religion. Atheism is about what we lack belief in, that is, lacking belief in personification deities and other mythology as literally true. Pantheists are generally Atheist in that we mostly lack belief in God(s). However we do tend to believe that the natural universe and existence in general is what the mythologies are really aiming at, trying to personify with elaborate symbolism and what not. I'm generalizing of course because there are many flavors of Pan beliefs, but roughly speaking Pan's are not literalists and don't think that the universe is YHWH, or Brahman, or something like that. Atheism is about what we do not believe while Pantheism is more about what we do believe. The dichotomy between Atheism and Pantheism can often be a false one because most are both. "All is God" doesn't usually amount to thinking that the Biblical God is everywhere and everything. It's much deeper than that. That's a straw man that monthiests like to raise against Pantheists. "Hey, look at these idiots, they think that God is in the mosquito, and air, and water - what morons." I remember hearing things like that raised against eastern religions and Hinduism as a Christian youth. That sort of thing kept me away from ever exploring eastern thought or Pantheism for any length of time, which, is what it's intended to do. And even after converting to Atheism I still thought to myself that if God did turn out to be real, then it would have to be the God of the Bible instead of any of the other God beliefs in the world. There was still a left over type of Christian superiority complex in my mind for some number of years even as a deconvert, an Atheist. But as Lewis noted, I did find my mind naturally drifting towards Pantheism when left to itself during those bachelor years where I had all the time in the world for contemplation and free time. I didn't recognize it as Pantheism at first though. I was just thinking about how the first and last, that which was, is, and will forever be, and "I am that I am" sounds more like a description of mere existence than anything else. Probably ancient people thinking about how existence had to have always been and will always and slapping the name "God" to it. Then personifying existence itself as if it were in our image, has emotions like we do, etc. etc. I started thinking about eternity in more of a naturalist sort of way. And eventually I began to realize that divinity and the divine has more to do with the awe and wonder associated with contemplating eternal existence more than anything else. Not some deity with no beginning or end but rather the realm of existence itself - a never ending multiverse going on forever or what-have-you. And to drive it home the interconnection of it all came into focus too. And how things are so interdependent. That is where my mind went when left alone to contemplate the mysteries of life and existence. I didn't even know about the eastern religions in any real detail at that point in life because I thought they were all sub-human and beneath western concepts. Then I ran into Joseph Campbell not long after and everything changed. I began to respect Hinduism and Buddhism and even see them as superior and much more mature than western thought in a lot of ways. I had it all back wards! I had been sub-human, ignorant, and thinking in terms of barbaric tribal nomadism instead of in the way of spiritually sophisticated societies. I was the horses ass! But I welcomed that self correction with open arms too because it represented change, growth, and advancement. Not only was I the horses ass growing up as a right wing creationist fundy but also as a left wing anti-theist over compensating from one extreme to the other. My mind was seeking out center ground in some way and I guess that in order to get there in life I quite literally had to experience for myself the extremities of religion and anti-religion in order to gain sight of where middle ground might be located. Atheism < Scientific Pantheism < (Pantheism) > Panentheism / deism > theisms To the right supernaturalism emerges and intensifies and the further right the more radical. To the left naturalism emerges and intensifies and the further left the more radical. This isn't very different than a political comparison between left wing communists and right wing nazi's set to a religious scale. Neither pan out too well as the survival of the fittest human thought, as two radical positions doomed to failure. They've peaked and declined in some sense. And to some extent so too have hard edge theism and atheism. I've noticed that a lot of people tend to gravitate towards some type of middle ground. You hear about "Spiritual Atheists" and people who are spiritual but not religious and to be quite honest that usually amounts to some type of Pantheism whether they realize it as such or not. Panentheists, Panendeists, Panpsychism, Idealist Pantheism and all sorts of things. So I think that Gary's main point is realistic in that Pantheism bodes well with science and could turn out to be the only type of belief left standing after generations and generations of future technological advancement because it has only to do with an attitude of respect and reverence towards the natural universe and planet free and clear of superstitious super naturalism which becomes less favorable along side of technological advancement.
    1 point
  30. Galien gave good advice. She advised Lilith to follow the law even though US laws are rather retarded in some cases as they dont really take into account teenagers not too far apart in years getting interested in each other and having sex, which when you think of it is pretty normal sexual attraction. What is the really horrible crime - an 18 year old with a teen maturity having sex with a 15 year old with a teen maturity ... or a sophisticated 40 year old who knows exactly what to do to seduce a 15 year old? I think we both know, yet some asswipes have pressed courts to permanently assign registered sex offender status to 18 year olds forever because they did nothing more than have sex with a 15 year old. On the other hand when someone gets out of prison for homicide or any other non-sex crime no such registration is required. Galien is correct that in the USA the attitude is prevalent that underage yet consensual sex is horrific and worse than any other crime. This is standard yet bad cultural programming. And when we apply logic, reason and critical thinking to this attitude we see it for the absurdity that it is. Not all laws make sense in all cases. It is quite absurd to allow alcohol to be sold when so many people drive drunk and kill people. It's not right. Yet it's legal anyway cuz alchol manufacturers lobby to make sure it stays legal. It is still wrong to sell alcohol when so many people kill other people while drunk driving. It is our bad cultural programming that says alcohol is ok. But marijuana is the Devil's weed. I think one of Galien's main point was that while you ought to follow the law so you don't go to jail there is sometimes a difference between right vs legal and wrong vs illegal. From what I've read Lilith gets the point, understands the law (if she didnt before) and it is doubtful she will be driving several states away to immediately pursue sexual relations with an underage 15 year old whether Galien had responded or not. That's my take on it. Hijacking the thread became irrelevent after the first few replies concerning the possible legal issues.
    1 point
  31. It's wrong to steal, except when God tells you to. It's wrong to lie, except when God tells you to. You have to be a moral relativist to be a Christian.
    1 point
  32. Hi Heaven You seem pretty cool for an Xer. At least you are wondering and not telling us we are ll going to hell. I think it's sad that you had to spend so much finger time writing defending god. I suffered a lot when i was younger because of some things other people did to me and I can ASSURE you that no amount of wrangling words could succor my suffering. You can say "God loves you!" SO? Who needs the love of one who is not here helping? That is just stupid. If it does not make sense to a ten year old don't ask me to fall for it, but thanks for coming by. You are not an A hole at least.
    1 point
  33. They play mental gymnastics and make up shit when it suits their purpose. They ignore scripture when it contradicts their point of view (wearing polyester is ok but being gay is WRONG!). They claim you "took it out of context" when it contradicts their point of view. They say "you dont have an ear to hear", (opposite of Ask, Seek, Knock Mt 7:7) thus simple sentences somehow become complex mysteries...when they dont want to hear you use scripture against them. They claim "allegory" so they can ignore literal meaning of scriptures that damages their point of view. If the old testament is to be ignored then there is no original sin and therefore no need for Jesus Christ. If the old testament is to be ignored why do Xians carry it around with them all the time and quote from it? And then there's Matthew 5:17-19..... One of the standard escape clauses listed above can be used to ignore that too I suppose. :-)
    1 point
  34. It is to see this kinds of quality fb statuses that I keep coming back to this forum. Yes, I've seen this several times actually. Pretty annoying. I like how guns AND the bible take precedence over, I don't know, classes on how to balance a checkbook, budget your money, etc. Judging by the multiple overdrawn accounts at our bank, I'd say most people are badly in need of those lessons before biblical or gun lessons. And with the way they call up, hysterical, saying the bank is depriving them of eating, jeeze. Hey, maybe you shouldn't have overdrafted your account while at the CASINO? But, hey, go read a BIBLE. Geeze, maybe they should.... at the casino and all, LOL! Well - Americans should be taught what to do with these items. One of them should be handed into the police to be destroyed so that it cannot be used to spread fear and harm. They should also get rid of the gun.
    1 point
  35. I'm afraid I have to disagree with you Heavenese I'm not going to quote it but you talk in depth about some of the Old Testament laws regarding rape victims marrying their rapists, stoning of disobediant children etc. I fail to see why you cannot see this is barbaric behaviour. I'm sorry, but it is. You talk about how you doubt that these rules were alwyas enforced. So? They were laws dicated by 'God' in his all knowing, all loving capacity. Does it matter how many people were actually stoned? Some presumeabley were, and this was considered ok? Is that not barbaric? And you also say that the rape victim's 'may not' have been forced to marry their rapists. Again, there is no evidence for this being true, and given the bibled degrading attitude towards women I doubt that the women's feeling's would have been considered. But we do not know how often or indeed how this law was executed. We just know it's in the Bible. Doesn't it strike you as barbaric that this was EVER considered the right thing to do? I'm sorry if this seems offensive, but to me these are some of the worst passages of the Bible and I cannot understand how you can not see them as barbaric.
    1 point
  36. I would like to find a secular way to achieve some of the qualities of the supernatural, without the supernatural. Some way to live more courageously. It would be nice if I could figure out some way of convincing myself that I have more power than I think I have, and to draw on that. It would be good to live more optimistically, so that even though I'm just matter, I could perhaps act as though I were more than that, so that I would generally aim higher in life.
    1 point
  37. Wow, I had not expected you to come back. Alright, I will go easy on you on account of LL. The Law required a rape victim to marry her rapist and a wife to drink mud if her husband felt jealous. Parents were to execute rebellious sons. There are dozens of other Old Testament laws that are sick, barbaric, ignorant and so on. If you were not aware of them I can provide verses. If you were aware then why would you say these are not flaws? Humans have worshiped gods that didn't give laws so it seems to me that giving laws is not a requirement for humans to worship gods. If the law is such a consuming fire then why wasn't rape against the law? Note taking a woman who belongs to another man was against God's law as an offense against that man. Taking a woman that belongs to you wasn't against God's law even if she didn't consent. In fact the very concept of consent is missing in God's law. God spent four of the ten commandments talking about how to worship God but rape wasn't even an after thought. Isn't is strange how certain sins still bother Christians but most of those Christians are not offended by eating shellfish or wearing blended fabric? God use to be offended by such things and is no longer bothered by them? This thing about blood covering sin is silly. It's all window dressing. People can forgive without doing anything. You just forgive. Why are humans so much better at forgiving than God? Can't you see how you have created a God who is deeply flawed in order for God to fit in the tiny logical gap left by cracks in the Bible? Your God's view about animal blood is no better off than that of Posiden, Zeus, Apollo, Oden or thousand of other gods. The Bible does not ensure the safety of the slaves. It allows Israel to attack other countries and enslave people who were minding their own business. Then they get to rape and beat those slaves. I think the slaves would have been better off if they had not been attacked in the first place. Again I can provide verses if you were unaware. No slaves were not treated as men. Slaves were treated as women because in the Bible women were a type of slave. Show me a Bible verse that says that Job's children were not gone when they were dead.
    1 point
  38. They're just butthurt that they're no longer the only game in town the way they were during the middle ages. Cry me a fucking river, xtians.
    1 point
  39. It actually scares the piss out of me.. because I realize that there are billions of people who think pretty much the same way... and have the same cognitive dysfunctions... and they can vote and stuff. *shudder*
    1 point
  40. For many programmers the term "undefined" is the same thing as NULL. So to equate God to an undefined (undetermined) result can also be seen to say that "God" is a NULL concept.
    1 point
  41. In some cultures, they might say that our ancestors are spirit guides, who guide us from the great beyond. I'm not so sure, though perhaps it contains a grain of truth. I think you are on the right track when you say that it is psychological, though I would not call it a quirk. Whenever you are considering the behaviour of a living thing, consider whether there may be an evolutionary explanation. I'm not a scientist, but I'm going to have a crack at the whip. Our ancestors survived in part because they were able to analyse situations, recognise danger, and stay away from it. Sometimes this would be a rational process. But it would also be advantageous to have a brain that could make the danger assessment subconsciously and instruct our concious mind to stay away from perceived danger. If a brain could do these things, and therefore keep away from danger, and therefore keep the body alive long enough to reach sexual maturity and have children, that aversion to danger and unconscious survival instinct would be passed on to the next generation. So, you should not be surprised that your brain creates urges to stay away from danger. In fact, you should expect it! That's why your ancestors survived long enough to bring you into existence, and they pass on that gift to you! For me, it is a beautiful thing to be able to attribute our sense of awareness to our own biology, and not to supernatural spirit guides. But - and perhaps you will appreciate this - if the instinct for survival was passed on to genetically us by our ancestors - you might say that your ancestors are guiding you after all. Honestly I'm sure you're right. One thing I've noticed is that people tend to "see" things that they already believe in. For example, people report having "demonic" experiences or seeing spirits. But the more I think about it the more I think it's just all in our heads. For example people with schizophrenia often see and hear things that don't exist. Are they peaking into the spirit world? No. Their brain is just conjuring up images and sounds that aren't there in the real world. Likewise if people look for something hard enough, they will see it. I remember when I was a Christian people would tell me about "answered prayers", and they would hinge their entire life and faith on these moments of pure chance. One time a guy told me he was praying to find his lost car keys, and he found them. Things like this are what religious people base their entire beliefs on. Just small, insignificant moments of chance or mere coincidence.
    1 point


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