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Showing content with the highest reputation on 08/08/2019 in all areas

  1. 3 points
    Luth: jesus is real Ex-c chorus: prove it Luth: I don't have to. The bible already proved it. Ex-c chorus: so prove the bible is true. Luth: I don't have to. god already proved it. Ex-c chorus: prove that god exists. Luth: I don't have to. It's accepted a priori. Ex-c chorus: ... This clown has nothing more to offer but unfounded assertions, strawman arguments, and ad hominems. If this is the best that an "omnipotent" god has to offer, then jesus is as big a joke as Luth is.
  2. 2 points
    Reminds me of one of my favorite memes: ”They say money can’t buy happiness, but it can buy a jet ski - and have you ever seen a sad person on a jet ski?”
  3. 2 points
    Any more talk like that will get your atheist license suspended.
  4. 2 points
    I think most of us here are aware of the Clergy Project. Christians are blissfully unaware of how many Preachers are faking it, because they need a paycheck. Leaving the ministry is difficult. We know the consequences of leaving religion, and those consequences are even worse for those in the ministry. A degree in theology doesn’t transfer to the secular world very well, therefore finding a job that pays enough to support a family is difficult. The alternative is to stay in the pulpit and fake it. Those that can’t do that suffer the consequences and essentially have to start their life over. I’m sure they don’t tell you about the risks associated with being a minister in seminary for those that later discover they aren’t suited for preaching the word.
  5. 1 point
    Absolutely. I'm particularly amazed at how he created Lucifer and the fallen angels, and then created hell for them, and then decided to throw everybody else into hell except for you and your 4 YouTube subscribers. The sheer stupidity of god's "creation" truly staggers the imagination. Here are a few more amazing "creations" of god's: https://www.popsci.com/human-eye-parasites/ https://www.medicinenet.com/necrotizing_fasciitis/article.htm https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Trump https://www.chop.edu/conditions-diseases/osteosarcoma
  6. 1 point
    I don't see why travelling in the past would stop you from travelling in the future? The world is a massive place with so many things to see and do. Definitely would be high on my million dollar list. I would love to go snorkelling with tropical fishes, river cruise down the Rhine, attend a live UFC event or prove the flat earthers wrong by visiting Antarctica. With a million dollars, half would be eaten by my mortgage, a chunk would go on new furniture, car and a refresh of my wardrobe. I would buy a PlayStation VR set, a digital camera with ultra zoom and pay for a cleaning company to handle the household chores to free up my time for the kids and other more fun activities. Being debt free would mean my wife could stop working and focus on the kids. With more free time I could do more fitness, study and start a YouTube channel.
  7. 1 point
    I'm boring. If you gave me a million dollars I'd pay my mortgage, renovate my house, and invest the rest.
  8. 1 point
    I would suggest, however, that theology includes all religions, not just Christianity. And I would also claim that the two are not equivalents on a balance scale. Science is based on fact and has significant implications for mankind. Theology, while also having implications for mankind, is not based on fact, and the negative consequences of that can be much more severe than the former.
  9. 1 point
    Dear Georgia, What leads you to believe that ANY of the atheists here have not read the bible? This is an ex-Christian website which means MANY of us have not only read the bible, but studied it with such intensity that it no longer held up to careful scrutiny. None of us hate God any more than we hate Santa Claus. And most of us felt we "knew God" or made a long and earnest attempt to do so. But tell me, how does anyone "know God?" What does that entail compared to "knowing" a fellow human? What evidence do you have to support your assumption that most of us "just believe what we've been told by other non believers?" Do you have any idea how arrogant it is to make these kind of assumptions? There are former pastors, missionaries, theological scholars, and ex-Christians of EVERY denomination and non-denomination here. If an atheist, Jew, or Muslim becomes a Christian, I doubt you find yourself questioning whether they were ever a "true atheist, true Jew, or true Muslim." Perhaps it is frightening to think that it is possible for people (who were just like you) to reject a belief that they once held as the solemn truth. This may not apply to you, but for some Christians it is too painful and too scary to admit the possibility that many folks have come to reject Christianity as a result of studying the bible -not ignoring it. These Christians try to insert their own narrative into our stories in order to make sense of something that seems unfathomable. Please don't make that mistake.
  10. 1 point
    Pfffft… fake numbers. Its just you looking at the thread 5000+ times
  11. 1 point
    For you to come here and claim that exchristians here just really had "no idea what it means to have faith" and to not have enough "knowledge" (aka "enlightenment or something in your words, because the Bible can be interpreted in as many ways as there are people on this Earth) is incredulous. It's also so condescending and patronizing - a God we haven't bothered to get to know? Seriously? Have you even read through the extimony section? Read Richard Dawkins. Read some Bart Ehrman. Read some Elaine Pagels. Read some Dan Barker. With an open mind. Educate yourself on what scholars say about the Bible (no not your church pastor who claims to have the truth) before coming here and stating that we just believe " what we've been told by other non believers." I'll leave you with a short quote I've used many times on this site already. "I do understand what love is, and that is one of the reasons I can never again be a Christian. Love is not self denial. Love is not blood and suffering. Love is not murdering your son to appease your own vanity. Love is not hatred or wrath, consigning billions of people to eternal torture because they have offended your ego or disobeyed your rules. Love is not obedience, conformity, or submission. It is a counterfeit love that is contingent upon authority, punishment, or reward. True love is respect and admiration, compassion and kindness, freely given by a healthy, unafraid human being." -Dan Barker
  12. 1 point
    One might say he's full of spit.
  13. 1 point
    This is gold for the lurkers.
  14. 1 point
    Here are a couple of places you can turn to to get help with mental health issues: The AMHD Crisis Line of Hawaii provides a team of trained and experienced professionals to help individuals in times of a mental health crisis. The Crisis Line of Hawaii is there to help you 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. On Oahu, call at 832-3100. On the neighbor islands, call toll-free at 1-800-753-6879. http://www.namihawaii.org/ I know that you've gotten some other good referrals in other threads as well… and at some point, you have to USE some of these phone numbers or websites and start talking to people who can assist you. I know it can be scary and hard, but there's a limit to what anonymous strangers online can do for you, especially on a forum that's not about sexual abuse or mental health. You are young, your sibling is still a minor, and you need expert help from real people in your area. The next time that the two of you are alone in the house, instead of crying together, please, please, PLEASE contact one of these organizations that can help you get out of that house!!
  15. 1 point
    With my sibling, Blue, and my recent rejections to the faith there has been a lot of tension in the house. Although we have not outright claimed our lack of faith, our parents seem to suspect something is different for the both of us, but they can't seem to pin down what it is. Apparently, I have a better poker face than I thought and am very good at lying in a manner that diverts attention to the real problem?? Anyway, whenever our parents leave the house, Blue and I are able to have our own discussions about the abuse we are facing and the religious trauma that we have experienced. A lot of these discussions have a lot of screaming into the empty house about how much we hate our lives and our parents and their beliefs. Whenever our parents go to bed, we are able to stay up and share encouragement with one another through this terrible oppression. We have a lot of panic attacks and sessions of just plain crying that go unseen by our parents. If anyone is going through the same thing right now, I would love to hear your story and how you are coping. Maybe there are others who have gone through this that have any means that they are able to share that helped them conceal their true thoughts and beliefs from their religious relatives. Maybe if there's a forum or site or book that explains ways to act like a Christian that aren't actually detrimental to one's own mental health? Going to church just induces panic attacks now because my father can preach from the pulpit with his sermon directly aimed at making me feel guilt. Another thing I was wondering, has anyone left religion to get mental help and found themselves suffering from a lot of mental illnesses? If so, have you been able to silence the voice of religion telling you that you're blowing everything out of proportion? I've also noticed that all of the division in the house has caused the family dog a lot of distress. I've read that dogs are able to detect depression and anxiety. The family dog has become a little detached from my mother and more attached to my sibling and I. Our dog will almost only eat meals now if we convince her to and sit with her. Has anyone gone on to get emotional support animals or service dogs? Are they available for people suffering from this kind of emotional abuse?
  16. 1 point
    You said this. I didn't. This is the strawnan to which you referred, jackass. Since you apparently are this fucking stupid, let me explain: I said this in response to the strawman YOU made by bringing these guys up when Josh called on you to support your claims. Do you understand now, or am I still using too many big words?
  17. 1 point
    jesus god damn christ, son. Are you naturally this stupid or do you just work really hard at it? YOU made a strawman argument by bringing these guys up when Josh called on you to support your claims. Rather than prove that your god exists, or that the bible is true, YOU went off on a tangent about how these guys wrote papers and became university presidents. THAT is the strawman to which I refer.
  18. 1 point
    You have no more idea about who I have, or have not, read than you do about how to make a cogent argument. That said, my literary preferences have nothing to do with you presenting a strawman against Josh.
  19. 1 point
    Yes. As a matter of fact, all strawmen are liars who have never proven anything, even the ones who became college presidents.
  20. 1 point
    All my life I have found dogs to be great companions and emotional support. When i was 11 years of age my blue tic hound helped me through a difficult period. He was always there to listen, wag his tail, and give me a lick. At 78 my Borgie does the same. How old are you and Blue? I take it you are too young and/or dependent to leave home?? Sometimes we just have to bide our time until there is opportunity to leave. Meanwhile, involve yourselves with people and activities that are safe and fulfilling. Are you in an isolated area? Or urban? It would help to know more specifics about your situation. P.S. I just read your testimony. I think every suggestion I would have can be found there. Especially about finding support groups and counseling through college resources. Another suggestion. Put your gender and location with your identifying information, unless you want insulation from being identified. It would help in knowing how to respond to your posts without going back and reading all your posts. Also, I had a female cousin that had an abusive home. She took summer classes, worked part time, and stayed at college to avoid going home. Lived with a friend during the few weeks the dorm was closed. You are an adult now and probably have more options than you realize. TRUST YOURSELF, don't slip into being too dependent on someone other than your parents, which people in your situation sometimes do, AND HANG IN THERE
  21. 1 point
    Hey, you took that scripture out of context! And that one. And that one. And that one too...holy cow, there sure are a lot of scriptures taken out context that make God look sort of nasty. You know the more nasty scriptures there are, the more one starts to think the God being evil actually IS the context.
  22. 1 point
    There are many options left. Morality wasn't invented by Christianity and our earth is exactly the same place it was when you imagined everything was running according to a god's plan. Getting hit by an a massive asteroid as far as any of us are concerned is simply death and our death is certainly on it's way anyhow. I think when we first see that christianity can not be true we still have one foot standing on christianity and the other foot moves to stand on the no christianity side. With time those places our feet are on drift further and further apart until eventually we can't keep that foot on the christianity side at all and must put all our weight on the no christianity side. That's when it becomes clear that this place without christianity is safe and fine as can be. We don't have to choose to be immoral but we must think about each moral issue and decide if we think it has value or not. We do not lose any more meaning than we choose to let go of. We have never known anything of eternity no matter how hard we tried to convince ourselves so our focus belongs on this life we are living right now. We must look for meaning and beauty right here today as it appears that other living creatures do. We do belong and we are just as important as anything on our planet and quite possibly as anything in the universe. In fact we still have that same awe we had for god only now we see it was actually for the vast and mostly unknown universe. Our DNA may sometimes cause us to create make believe gods but also our DNA allows us to continue on, unharmed if we need to let go of that prop and look at exactly what we have here and now and see as clearly as possible what this place is where we find ourselves living. The reason Einstein was so misunderstood regarding christianity was because he was so mystified by the order he saw in the universe and he held an extraordinary reverence for the vastness of space. At the end of his life he felt compelled to clarify his certainty that the christian god and all the accompanying fairy tales were only made up stories. I'm sure that after serious thought you won't want to live in a world exclusively dictated by might makes right or where compassion has no place. It's just that now you must consciously choose to work to help make the kind of world you want to have and do it realizing you have choices. I find everything about this proposition much preferred to the chaotic patchwork morality that must be carefully extracted from the immorality crazily woven into the biblical texts. Clear thinking is truly beautiful Jane and that is something you can hang onto for the rest of your life. This is the time to build a world view that is actually solid and stays within the parameters of what you can know so that it will carry you through the remainder of your life.
  23. 1 point
    If you haven't encountered The Onion, America's Finest News Source, (https://www.theonion.com) you might check it out. It's a satire on the news and I frequently get a good laugh from it. They also hit some biting satire that can be quite cutting on society's insanity from time to time. Their site includes a horoscope which is almost always a good laugh. But today's horoscope includes one that explains why some preachers go into the business: Pices: You will soon make a comfortable living exploiting other people's deep-seated anxieties and crippling fears. Makes sense to me.
  24. 1 point
    Blue: This is very serious shit. Dan has good ideas about child protective services. On your sister's thread I suggested calling the National Domestic Violence hotline: 1-800-799-7233 from a safe phone. Having just read both your and her posts, I urge you to do this without delay. Here is a link to their website. https://www.thehotline.org (And never use a computer at home for anything you don't want your father to see. It's almost impossible to erase everything. Go to a public or school library.) I also suggested to her to Google "assertive rights." On the sites that come up you'll find validation for what you're doing in a concise, well-worded way. Check more than one link as there are variations on the theme. Please stay with us and keep us updated.
  25. 1 point
    This is to Dreamer but I know you all read everything. I don't have personal experience but I believe if you and Blue went to child protective services you would be immediately heard and taken seriously. Unlike the church or the military, child protective services are trained to spot abuse and as a primary function expected to effectively stop it. I believe just the fact that both you and Blue find his touching uncomfortable and sexually suggestive is enough to confirm that it is inappropriate. The social workers jobs would be threatened if they appeared to blow you off and suggest you were making too much out of what was being done to you. In my opinion your father would in all probability not escalate his sexually inappropriate touching once officially confronted because to do so would put his reputation, employment and church status in jeapordy. So far he has enjoyed pushing the sexual touching as far as he can without doing (in his opinion) anything that could be called clearly sexual and he has escaped without so much as a scratch. Stepping out into the spotlight to force sexual groping on his daughters would be a very big and very dangerous step up in the nature and degree of offensive behavior he would be engaging in, leaving him very little room to escape detection and prosecution. (This is not to say that he won't keep pushing the envelope if nothing seems to be preventing him or exposing him). I would say that once child protective services contacted your family they would make it clear to both your father and mother (and to you and Blue) exactly what constitutes crossing the line at this point and that if he decided to go there they would take immediate action. If your mother ever saw anything suspicious and did nothing to intervene she would be complicit. Whatever child services decided to do it would be their job to see that you and Blue are not ever placed in harms way. I don't think this is at all beyond the abilities of child protective services. You and Blue have every right to expect to feel and be safe in your home without fear of sexual advances from your father. As I've said before you have more power than you have been led to believe by your controlling parents and church. Of course your father could withhold co signing on college loans but once child protective services has made contact with him any changes in his behavior that negatively effect you and Blue could well be seen as retaliatory and could cause your father's behavior to receive additional negative scrutiny.
  26. 1 point
    The US military has an extremely strong hyper-evangelical web that will protect its members, much like the Catholic hierarchy has protected pedophile priests as holy even though they are clearly evil SOBs. There is resistance building to it from within, but there is only so much that can be done, and is usually the result of lawsuits not just talking to someone. The cult always places blame on the victims, because they don't believe their god can fail. Their god is just an imaginary friend, so any abuse they want to dole out is doled out and they get a pass from their invisible buddy. Any non-conformance is punished, and again the victim is blamed. I have to disagree with nontheistpilgrim's last post about going further into church activities. They want conformity of thought, emotion, and action, and they always always protect pastors as "anointed" by god, so you are toys to them from the outset. I'd suggest finding secular authorities or attorneys to try and get out of the house and away from your family early. But I also know from personal experience that a lot of government authorities and police are in the cult also. They really can't see that their missions are insidious. The cult has a default respect in American culture, one that it doesn't deserve.
  27. 1 point
    I really do appreciate your support and thoughts on mine and my sister’s posts. That truly is what we have needed, kind and polite suggestions. To receive support is an added bonus. Which I also appreciate you giving on our comments on my sister’s post. It is quite a mess and I don’t like to get into such things. Ever. I try to be kind, but share my thoughts as I wish others would. When we received responses like we did, it does mess with us quite a lot. So really, thank you. I hope my sister and I will help our mental health and get out of our abusive situation very soon. Many thanks to everyone who has responded with suggestions and support thus far.
  28. 1 point
    It is scary to think about what religious people can get away with by using their beliefs and religion as an excuse. I am surprised to hear that your relative is getting a divorce since some religions are against divorce. During one of my mother's lectures about the bible, I asked her what the bible said on rape and abuse in a marriage because earlier she had talked about how divorce is sinful and wrong. She hesitated when I asked that question. I knew the answer. Women are supposed to be subject to their husbands. Divorce is wrong in the bible. And divorce isn't an option in any manner. However, she said that she personally thinks that I should protect myself and get out of a relationship like that. But then she went back to saying that I wouldn't be in a situation like that anyway with a Christian man. All of the conditions and the contradictions make my head spin. My mother hesitated because she knew that her faith doesn't protect her children. Her faith doesn't protect women. Her faith doesn't care about women. Her faith allows for the victim blaming that we see today about rape and sexual assault. Her faith allows for my father to touch me inappropriately in front of her and she can't say a damn thing. Yet, somehow she still doesn't see any of it as wrong. Beats me. I think they're all lost.
  29. 1 point
    I hadn't thought that military chaplains would be part of a community of religious nutters - I don't think that would happen over here, although there could well be lone extremists within a more liberal set-up. That poses problems., I can see that. I have a relative who is in denial over any resposibility for the breakdown in their marriage and who says god is on their side. I can't get past that, even though I think they have had an affair themselves - which is the reason they started divorce proceedings against a partner who is accused, but probably non guilty, of an affair. Utter rubbish situation but the religious nutter cocoon is impenetrable. I think you are right in thinking you need to leave, both for your physical and mental health and also for your 'spiritual' health (outside of christianity and god, of course!) Peace!
  30. 1 point
    You may be right about the church and military believing our testimonies of abuse. I was planning on visiting a medical professional and unofficially asking about a "hypothetical situation" pertaining to the sexual, mental, and religious abuse that we have been suffering. Hopefully, they will give me answers about what would happen if I were to officially report the abuse and then I can work from there? It's funny you mention the trade-off. Blue and I have been doing just that lately. In order to stay home from a bible study (when we were both feeling ill and couldn't walk), Blue had to agree to go to all church functions without complaint from then on. It was a terribly unfair trade-off in my opinion, especially since neither of us were well enough to go anyways. However, since when have Christian parents been reasonable with skipping on church events? I have also had to make my own sacrifices. In order to get the loan and one-bedroom apartment, I had to lie that I was willing to break up with my current non-Christian boyfriend and that I would never have him over without other company. My parents also mentioned sending with me a security camera that they bought which they already have access too. So basically spying on me. Hopefully, they do not remember to send that with me or I will just have to pretend to lose it or break it when I get back to school.
  31. 1 point
    I hesitate to post. I am not a psychologist and have no idea how your father might react if he is challenged or 'threatened'. I do think he needs to be called out or reported for such abuse. But.... My experience of the military is long past yet I don't really believe that much has changed in the UK. So if I've got your father's military wrong - apologies. The UK military is totally authority-based. People MUST do as they are told all the time. This is why, for example, so many of the homeless on our streets are ex-military - they cannot cope with making their own decisions (that's an over-simplication perhaps). If your commanding officer says jump, you jump. If you put a foot wrong you get disciplined. So I'm thinking that your father would react strongly if you said you were going to inform his superiors about his abuse. And this is where only you and your sister can know the best way forward. And this is about you and your best interests. He may stop (??) or he may take more drastic action: I don't have any idea, of course. Perhaps your father has a denominational connection as well as a military? If so, he will have some sort of 'bishop' or 'overseer' to whom abuse could be reported. The big 'what-if', of course, is that the church and possibly the military may not act or believe you. Just like your father, it seems, they could go into denial. I wish you well in your difficult life and decision-making. I don't see any happiness for you in remaining in your situation unless things change but I feel, instinctively, that you can bring about change. As I finish, I've just had a thought. I haven't gone back over your posts so I could be barking up the wrong tree (as we say over here). Is there some sort of trade-off that you could work with for a year or so? Like 'I'll continue to attend church if you leave me alone'? I would suppose that the pain of attending church is less than the pain of abuse? Just a thought.
  32. 1 point
    I am Blue's sister. Our father will probably have another duty station to report to next summer, which will be another year for Blue to endure at home. I will be going off to college and do not plan on coming back to the island. I will do my best to support Blue in any way that I can and definitely will be checking up as much as I can. Both Blue and I have been reading a lot of the reactions and advice to our stories and noticed a trend with the mention of reporting the abuse. The past two weeks have been extremely abusive and exhausting, which has caused us to seriously consider getting help by reporting the abuse to our doctor or a child protective services. Do you know anything about the process or where to research the process?
  33. 1 point
    Wow Blue, that is a lot to deal with! I may comment a few different times here but this is the thing that has my attention now, " Ever since sixth grade I have been struggling with anxiety, depression, and being suicidal." Depression can be a major concern especially if it sometimes pushes you toward suicidal thoughts. The very next time you feel suicidal or even leaning in that direction call the suicide prevention hotline, https://suicidepreventionlifeline.org/. 1-800-273-8255. Perhaps you have already used this resource but if not you can feel confident that the professionals and trained volunteers that answer incoming calls really care about your situation and will most definitely listen to you. They can help you understand why you're feeling the way you are and assess how volatile you current state of mind might be. They can provide appropriate references for safeguarding your mental health and getting you the emotional support you might need to make it through a crisis. This service is designed for people (adults or children) like you who are substantially isolated as I believe your writing describes, so don't think you maybe are making too big of a deal out of your feelings or that you might be making too much of your current state of mind. If your aren't sure but think maybe you are feeling suicidal or heading that direction then just dial that number and explain your feelings and let them help you decide how serious your situation is. I want to get this out there for you so just quickly I'll add that you father is sexually off base and is too slow understanding what no means (even an implied no). Right now your best defense is letting him know that his touching isn't welcomed or appropriate as you've already begun to do. Don't let time pass enduring a wrong touch. If necessary just call him on it. Say you don't think it's OK and that you're going to go to child protective services and describe what he's doing to you if it doesn't stop immediately and forever. I know this is a huge step and defies the power structure but that is exactly why it will be so effective. You are quite a bit more powerful than you think just stay calm be deliberate and use your resources. I'm so glad you decided to share with us. Take care of yourself because really you're all you have. I believe you have a very exciting interesting life ahead that's well worth fighting for.
  34. 1 point
    From the article I'm not clear if he means he lost his faith or if he simply has not been living as the Bible indicates true Christians should. Perhaps that's a cop-out to saying he does not believe in that crap anymore. I find two things of special interest in this. Someone could preach something fervently for years then change their minds. This should be a sign unto the masses to do their own research (duh). He now works for a marketing firm. Same skill sets. Same personality. Same goal - get folks to buy stuffs.
  35. 1 point
    I see love and acceptance as totally different things; love is an emotion, acceptance is an intellectual decision. We'll just have to agree to disagree there. I don't think that a definition of sin is necessary, or even possible, other than "whatever God says it is," because there are always so many if's and's or but's, eg stealing in general is wrong, but then there's the hungry child example. Christians are supposed to judge; that's how they determine right from wrong, and good people from bad people. The line about judging not lest ye be judged is taken out of context. I don't know if anybody is saying that being non-binary is a sin; we should probably assume that somebody is, given how intolerant many Christians and churches are these days. What my pastor said is actually worse, really; that it doesn't exist. For something to be a sin, it has to at least exist! I refuse to not exist.
  36. 1 point
    Yes, that's right, the Bible shows that Jesus extended his love and caring to everyone. He did not make any exceptions of categories of people who should not be loved and cared for. Anyone who claims to be a Christian should have that exact same attitude. Not many do though. But, it is also possible to love the sinner and hate the sin, in other words to love someone without accepting them.
  37. 1 point
    I'm having difficulty understanding. It seems to me that Jesus welcomed everyone who went to him and told stories about others he accepted. If he was alive today I am absolutely certain that, based on what it says in the Bible, he would welcome everyone - thus non-binary people. What more do Christians need?
  38. 1 point
    See, here is where the Bible can be problematic! We are both totally sure of opposite and non-overlapping positions about what it says for even a basic concept. My mother always used to say that the Bible could be used to prove or disprove pretty much anything; it does often seem that way.
  39. 1 point
    Firstly, you will realise that I have little interest in what Jesus said. However, I wouldnt expect the New Testament writers to record any comments or, indeed, that Jesus said anything about issues that were not recognised two thousand years ago. The Bible does not address every issue. But it does suggest some general principles which I have stated. It seems of no consequence to me - today is today. Science and social social have moved on (and still moving).
  40. 1 point
    Jesus did in fact include and serve some of the humblest and least socially desirable people in his ministry… but those people weren't proclaiming to have a different sexuality or gender, in other words not violating the basic rules of their society. The majority of his followers were low-income, but that didn't mean they were social rejects that required any special acceptance. The lepers that Jesus healed WERE undesirable, but he didn't ask any of them to join his team. Jesus talked a lot about loving and forgiving, and of course serving, but I can't think of anything he said about accepting… can you?
  41. 1 point
    You getting me to read the Bible? Well, OK. Off the top of my head, though. Didn't Jesus accept all sorts of people who were not acceptable to society? What about the parable of the Good Samaritan? Some of the people he chose for disciples were humble people who would not have been considered particularly important by society. He also had harsh words for those considered 'respectable' in society. I think there's enough in the New Testament to support Guido Anselmi.
  42. 1 point
    Great quote! Acceptance is such a basic thing, and yet too often amongst Christians it is in short supply, no matter how much they claim to love everybody. Like I think many Christians, my pastor's response to anything that he thinks is wrong is love the sinner, hate the sin, pray for God to change their heart… and I'm just now realizing that there's nothing about acceptance in there, which is not necessarily a part of love, although it should be. I guess in his defense, the Bible doesn't talk about acceptance much beyond stuff like accepting people who eat different things than we do… Kind of unfortunate, but I guess in those days the idea of total acceptance just didn't exist.
  43. 1 point
    I came to live in a UK city many years ago after serving in a very remote part of our world. One of the first things that caught my attention and then became a philosophy for me was a saying attributed to Guido Anselmi: Accept me as I am. Only then can we discover each other. I wonder if your pastor would react favourably to that suggestion?
  44. 1 point
    I hear you! It looked like Myrkhoos was making some interesting points that might have been of value to explore, but then they posted again and switched to arrogant and elitist nonsense, so let's hope they keep their word and are done on this thread.
  45. 1 point
    For the sake of those who are still showing up there every Sunday, some of whom might also be non-binary, or know someone that is, I do hope the pastor decides to stop making an issue of things he knows nothing about, but now that I know what his opinion is, whether he expresses it or not, that puts an unsurpassable boundary between us. We all need different kinds of shorthand to talk about ourselves and each other, otherwise we'd be giving paragraphs of explanation every time, which would be impractical. You found a term that works well for you, and that helps people communicate with you; it's all good!
  46. 1 point
    Actually, it's NOT obvious. Saying that hermaphroditea, a word which is no longer used and does not describe most intersexuals in any case, are that way because of something that you could call dysfunction doesn't change the fact that they are human beings, they exist, and they are neither male nor female, demonstrating that there are not just 2 genders. I have limited interest in simple communication, but a great deal of interest in accurate communication, and in order to do that, the term non-binary does need to be used. I appreciate all the other information that you passed along, but that kind of philosophical stuff is totally not my thing; maybe somebody else who likes philosophy will come along and discuss that with you.
  47. 1 point
    Myrkhoos, you seem to be suggesting that Hole-In-My-Heart should re-assess their identity. But this was clearly stated: I'm non-binary, in other words neither male nor female.. I've known this my entire life. Of course we all should have a healthy questioning attitude to much of life but in many things we may have reached a conclusion where it is not necessary or helpful to question. I hope I haven't misunderstood you. Hole-In-My-Heart can stand up for themself, I'm sure; just wanted to be supportive.
  48. 1 point
  49. 1 point
    Thank-you @dobokdude for sharing you story, it is so similar to mine that I cried after reading it. The last few years of my marriage to a fundamentalist man has been unbearable. My deconversion impacted him badly, he would fly into rages, yelling and intimidating me and my atheist son (who has aspergers). He bullied my son verbally, then began shoving him into walls if he argued back. My husband would then cry, apologise and promise to change. The climax came a couple of weeks ago when my husband grabbed my son by the throat and pinned him against the wall. This resulted in my son crying hysterically. I waited for him to leave the house then I packed up the kids and we fled to a hotel. We are still homeless but at least everyone is safe. His priest has been in contact with me, urging me to reconcile, because everyone is capable of change. Because Jesus. I explained that I no longer belive in Christianity, but felt terribly guilty about breaking up our family. You have helped to cement my decision to divorce, for the sake of my kids. I just want peace. My kids deserve nothing less. I’m sorry you had a shitty childhood. It’s not fair. I hope you can find peace and stability. Thanks again.
  50. 0 points
    I really appreciate your posts, but I don’t know if informing his superiors is the way to go for us. Being that his superiors are all bible thumping Christian assholes like him, just with higher ranks. To your last note- I’m not sure that would be possible either. I have to choke down panic attacks at every church function as it is. And any conversation on such topics with him is quite exhausting being that he is ‘never wrong’ and never changes, but loves to victim blame and say we need to change. I’ve been thinking that I need to just focus on getting mental help do about a month (certain things are coming up), then get out of the situation and start a new life. It is drastic, but it is the only thing that has brought me a bit of peace of mind. I need to leave and so does my sister. I figure a lot people make their way through college and life (maybe with a lot of debt, but hey!) all the time, so I can surely figure it out. Thank you so much for all of your support, care, and suggestions.



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