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  1. I was born in September of 1976, in the USSR, Kiev City that now is the capital of Ukraine. I’m the oldest of my 3 siblings. 1970s were the years of Christian persecution. I don’t remember the 70s much, but I do remember mid 1980s, with Gorbachev coming into power as the time of more freedoms for the Christians, especially the late 1980s that saw public preaching in the streets. As fate would have it, my parents were very active in the Evangelical Baptist church. My dad was very close with the Senior Pastor and my mom sang in the choir. Those of you from the US may not appreciate the
    7 points
  2. I came across a bullet point list of arguments for and against Christianity, so stealing that and adding my thoughts I came up with the speed list below. Of course complex arguments done in short hand will often miss points which people consider critical, but as a quick main point view I think it works. Are there others in either list that you consider strong or common enough to be worth including? Arguments For: Kalam Cosmological – “Everything has a creator”, weak because that is an unfounded assertion, we have only one example of a universe and nothing to compare to.
    7 points
  3. Hey, so I’ve been wanting to post here for awhile, and I’m still kind of confused on how to post in what sections as a new member, but here I am! I’m kind of nervous, but I guess I’ll just go ahead. I’m in my early twenties and last year I officially left Christianity. I grew up conservative and homeschooled in the southern United States, and I graduated college almost two years ago. Three years ago I almost killed my self for a lot of reasons, but one of them was hating myself for being bisexual. I’ve known since I was about 11 that I was bisexual, at least in the loosest underst
    7 points
  4. Hey. We probably aren’t supposed to say our real names on here so I won’t lol. For some months, I’ve been wanting to leave Christianity but the fear of hell has held me back. I get cautious of so many things being a sin and it has made my life miserable. I just want to be a “normal” teen and enjoy life again but this “what if I’m wrong and I made the wrong choice” thing is always here with me. Hell is scary to say the least and I don’t want to end up there. Hopefully this miserable stage will pass…I’d like to learn more about the origins of the Old Testament, New Testament, Hell, and Christian
    6 points
  5. Hey everyone, I know I told you all from the beginning that My oldest son was atheist, which ended up finalizing my own deconversion. But last year his brother also denounced Christianity. He had been going to church but there was alot about the churches teachings that bothered him. Especially the teachings against homosexuality. He isn't homosexual himself but his brother is bi and he has a lot of friends that are. I talked to him a lot about the things I was seeing concerning the Bible. I'm glad he is getting out now and not wasting a good portion of life on it. The w
    6 points
  6. Hi all, I'm glad I found this site and have been reading some posts the past few days. I usually never post online as I'm a very private person, but I had a revelation on Monday that Christianity is false and actually leads people astray and causes them to waste their money, time and the only life they have. Warning: this is really rambly because I'm writing on my phone and no space to organize. Sorry. So I got sick and had to "stay home" from work, i.e. not log in haha. And I never read the news much (too depressing), but ever since covid-19, I have read the news,
    6 points
  7. Hi, good to see you here. I'm not a regular poster but I am a keen reader of this site. I was a Christian for just under 60 years, including many years as a church minister both in UK and overseas. I preached it all because I believed it all. Then I retired and began to ask questions. Been a non-theist for about 15 years now and happier than ever before. Still reading, still asking questions but convinced the only gods are created by human imaginations. Keep searching with an independent mind-set. There's loads of excellent support here so don't be shy to ask and say what you th
    5 points
  8. Hey guys I just wanted to give an update on how life has been since deconverting. I want to start off by saying thanks for the support of this community. It has been very helpful in me finding hope after deconverting and a source of inspiration to improve my life. I realized that there's more to life than religion. But of course like many people who have deconverted I'm experiencing these relapses and intrusive thoughts about christianity and the guilt of leaving. I just wish that I never got to know christianity so that my life would be so much easier and I could live like a normal person.
    5 points
  9. Nobody here seems to understand that politics is directly related to wave/particle duality.
    5 points
  10. @Sirolo Sorry to hear you are having a rough go right now. If there is one thing I understand, it is fear of Hell. It is safe to say that was the foundation of my relationship with Christianity. It took me a long time to get over that fear as well, maybe two to three years after deconversion it stopped being a fear that crept up every now and then. I do not know what will work for you, but for me, I had to stop thinking about what is possible and focus on what is probable. I spent a lot of time studying Christianity both inside and out. I am confident in saying that the odds of Ch
    5 points
  11. @WalterP, To begin with, no one has the right to be here on this website. Not yourself, not either of the joes, not even the Prof thy Mod. This is a personal, privately owned and operated website and we are all granted the privilege of posting here. Some of us have the privilege of taking other people's privileges away; but there is only one person who has the right to be here. In him we live, and move, and have our being... as online avatars. Secondly, we have always welcomed christians into our forums, even those with insane ideas; and we will continue to do so in
    5 points
  12. Oxygen is formed via nucleosynthesis within stars. Indeed, all atomic elements (except hydrogen, some helium and some lithium) were formed (i) within a star's normal life, (ii) by reason of a supernova (iii) when neutron stars merge. Added: These processes occurred for about 9 billion years before out solar system was formed. This is why all 92 natural elements exist in our solar system, including Earth. This was a necessary prerequisite for the development of carbon based life on Earth.
    5 points
  13. wow just read his opening statement and that is a lot of assertions with zero references to support his theory. So far I've only seen the one article. He really needs to give his argument some support other than the "this is what I believe, it makes sense to me, so you should believe it to" tactic. You can't make something true by repeating it over and over. I'm sure Joe is watching this thread and I have to reply to your last comment to me Joe. I told you that I had earnestly studied the Bible and began seeing issues to which you replied, " is it better to memorize it, or to see
    5 points
  14. Brains are chemically active "machines". Add certain chemicals and we go unconscious while a surgeon goes to work on our bodies. Add a different chemical (DMT), and experience 10 minutes of impossibly beautiful geometry and music in hyperspace inhabited by odd beings that all seems very very familiar especially when they say "Welcome back!". Add a different chemical (psilocybin), and see and feel utterly connected to all life above and below ground, see the various gods and become them, see family members and become them, buoyed by a sense of utter peace and love. Add a different chemical (dat
    5 points
  15. Welcome, physicslady. I am glad you found us and the courage to chime in. I really appreciate how you tend to look for the good in situations--christians aren't always good people, but jesus is; husband lacks ambition, but is handsome and funny. That speaks a lot to your character. I'd wager that trait will come in handy as you process your deconversion, deconstruct your beliefs, and set new guidelines for yourself and, as you so accurately reflect, your only life. I, too, felt greatly cheated in the early days. I've constantly worked jobs that were beneath my ability and inte
    5 points
  16. ((Mods - feel free to move this thread where it most belongs)) @WalterP, I noticed in another thread that you feel quite strongly about the proper use of the terms "proves," "proof," and "evidence." Perhaps we should be more gracious and accept there are other commonly used definitions for these terms and not necessarily colloquial. When people talk about "proof" and "evidence" it is highly likely they are using popular culture versions of these terms as seen on TV in numerous police and courtroom dramas as opposed to terms of art. A mathematica
    5 points
  17. Only my own. I never mentioned you, Tim; I wouldn't do that.
    4 points
  18. Welcome to Ex-C fluffyapple I'll ask you the same question I ask anybody when they say they are afraid of hell. Usually most people are afraid of only one hell, that of the religion they were brought up with. So I ask them, and you, are you afraid of the Islamic hell? The Egyptian underworld? Do you fear being judged unworthy by Anubis, God of death? What about the Norse Hel? The Greek Hades? Are you afraid of them? If the answer is no, then why fear the Christian hell? There is no more evidence for it than any of the other hell's that I mentioned. Ultimatel
    4 points
  19. Hi fluffyapple, and welcome to the community. You’ve come to the right place! A lot of people over the years have been in exactly the same position you are in, and have gone through successful deconverison processes and now live happy and fulfilling lives as ex-Christians. I see no reason why you can’t do the same thing. I’d say a successful deconversion requires four things: firstly an openness to questioning Christianity and to the possibility that it is not true. Seems like you’re already there: most Christians never get even that far - good for you! Secondly, g
    4 points
  20. Shit man I'm so sorry to hear this. My family basically believe the same kind of doctrine. Heck in their eyes most 'Christians' are going to hell because they don't follow the true word (Basically my ex churches teaching). When I told them I was no longer coming to church it dropped a bombshell on them. I don't know how my mum in particular deals with the my son doesn't believe in God thing, but they have probably internalized it as God will/has save me anyway. Or that I do truly believe and I'll come back into the fold one day. If your parents are of the once saved always saved t
    4 points
  21. Quantum wave coherence died for your sins.
    4 points
  22. Hello all, I have been reading this forum for some time and decided to share a post too. I will try to expose my views about life and not give so much detail about my life story but rather share my thought process about religions and how I navigated through that and lastly, why I think in a particular way about things. First of all, I have been interested in Christianity for the last 3-4 years. I was born in an atheist family and was never exposed to religions until I took an interest in Christianity as an adult. I considered myself to be a Christian during these few years and unde
    4 points
  23. Well, his inability to participate in rational discourse could (for the most part) simply be due to religious indoctrination coupled with little, if any, education in or experience with critical thinking. On another point, your posts in the actual debate thread with Joe are quite good...thorough, rational and instructive. Joe doesn't address them but simply bleats another assertion. Also, in your discussion of "major flaws" in Genesis 5 eq seq, there's an earlier one that is quite significant. It deals with water and timing. Water contains oxygen, which is only forme
    4 points
  24. This raises an interesting possibility TABA, perhaps one without precedent in Ex-C. Let's say that no other members ever engage with Joe in the Den, which is where he's confined. Yet, he seems to have no problem aggressively evangelizing to nobody in particular. Just posting and posting and posting, ad nauseum. If left alone he'd probably accumulate pages and pages of his incoherent ramblings. Personally, I have no problem with this. However, his rantings do present a possible snare for new members, who could be dragged b
    4 points
  25. I see your point Del but he does have a different angle. And while right now that angle is a very poor one. I can see where it can be developed into another scientology or latter day saints. Joseph Smith prophecied that people were on the surface of the moon and the surface of the sun. Completely ridiculous BS but look at it now. I think it was good for us to get a better understanding of what he is thinking so that if it comes up again later, we have more information on it. And if he spouts this stuff to someone else and they end up here we can say, "yeah he was here. He's an idi
    4 points
  26. Hey Mr. Jukes, Like TABA said. There is no need in becoming completely atheist unless thats a step you feel is right for you. I consider myself non-theist. I've determined beyond a shadow of a doubt (for myself) that: 1) Science, Archeology, and biblical scholars have proven the Bible is not the inerrant word of God. 2) that all other religions on earth developed in similar manner to that of Judaism, Islam, and Christianity. 3) Their is no reason for me to prescribe to any of the various theologies that the world has to offer. I ho
    4 points
  27. You can be 100% certain that you have consciousness. But that’s about it as far as certainty is really possible. Being an atheist doesn’t mean I’m certain no god exists (that’s why I and many of us here consider myself an agnostic atheist). I don’t believe in any gods but I can’t be certain. I’m closer to certain that the god of the Bible doesn’t exist, and that Heaven and Hell and Satan aren’t real. But there could be some kind of supreme being, maybe. It’s OK to think of yourself as leaning atheist. Or just call yourself agnostic. Or don’t use either label. Just not being
    4 points
  28. Herald Camping did this prior to 2011. He had a following and it inflated his ego. He went full D-K effect sure of himself. And when there was no rapture, he claimed that he was "flabbergasted." He had deviated away from the written scripture on several points. No man knows the day or the hour became apologized away as only the unsaved will not know the day or the hour. But that's not what it says. It says no one will know the day or the hour with no specific grouped named. That alone should have red flagged his movement. But followers were blind to thinking for themselves. Campin
    4 points
  29. @pittsburghjoe, Now is your opportunity to stake out your position in full, uninterrupted by the rest of us. You get to have an actual conversation with @WalterP. You have strong beliefs and you clearly want us to join you in those beliefs. We have literally given you the floor to make your case the best you can and limited interruptions to one interlocutor. Imagine this as a defense of your doctoral thesis or that you are the plaintiff in a civil case. Be prepared to defend your position and assertions against a single person instead of a whole gaggle of
    4 points
  30. Yes, they *do* sound quite possible -- because we are all connected. The point of connection was approximately 13.7 billion years ago, at the time of the Big Bang singularity. What I can't fathom about your line of reasoning is why you're so eager to sacrifice the uniqueness we possess now, in favour of some nebulous connectedness. To me, there is nothing appealing about being subsumed into some mythological godhead and having the 'self' obliterated. And what you say above has nothing to do with what *I* said. You're just another Internet stranger pretending that you
    4 points
  31. I owe pittsburghjoe, along with every member participating in this discussion for helping free me from my former Christian belief. I'm forced to admit to myself and anyone reading here that as a Christian I had never truly considered the extent to which all Christian belief rests upon the silly-assed irrational concept of "original sin". There was no one in the Garden with an iPhone recording video, people. There was no one there with a quill and scroll of parchment writing it all down. There were no eye-witnesses at all. It's a MYTH. A sill
    4 points
  32. Ok, so what about Joe's reply? Well, once again he dodged the question. 'Did god make Adam with a knowledge of both good and evil?' None of what Joe wrote deals with HOW god made Adam. This is the key issue because if Adam was unable to recognize and understand good, then on what basis should he have chosen god over Satan? I'm not disputing that in the text of Genesis god is described as good and everything he makes is good. No. The goodness surrounding Adam isn't the issue. His inability to recognize the good
    4 points
  33. I have found that it's a good idea to wait until you've had a kid or two before deciding you don't want them.
    4 points
  34. You got it! In a sense, our brain is making us act out. Think of it as being similar to having a bad dream. A hallucination. The stroke the guy had (along with seizure and heart attack) could have caused brain damage which effected his thoughts. The brain can do strange things under certain conditions.
    4 points
  35. There is no need at 20 years old to stick to a firm decision about this now. At this point in your life you have a lot of rational reasons for remaining childless. Just don't make promises to yourself. Ten years from now you will be a different person and you may change your mind - or you may not. Be open to change and to possibilities.
    4 points
  36. @pittsburghjoe I am going to comment on a couple of things, not to antagonize you, but to help you get a better context of the intent of this site, your dialogue, etc. 1. First and foremost, Ex-Christian was developed as a place where those who are falling out of faith have to go to hear the testimonies and ask questions of other people who were in their same predicament. I get the impression you think everyone here is just a bunch of God-haters for no apparent reason other than the typical Christian tropes, i.e., we want to sin, we hate God, we were hurt, etc. Yeah, some people we
    4 points
  37. Welcome! Damn. SO many points you made that resonate with my own experiences. Even the Redding church and the charismaniacs that follow every whim as being "The Spirit™ Told Me", and when it clearly doesn't pan out it is STILL God doing something mysteriously wise and good instead of clearly bullshit. They are trained to not question and to always believe regardless. And the church is only too happy to use/abuse you and blame you if you complain. The great-and-precious promises that he can flat out not answer, and it's still an answer. The utter silence when desperate prayers are given for hea
    4 points
  38. Well here is my take on the topic. First of all everything changes in the new testament and I believe that is because of a religious "merge" if you will. Ezekiel 28 is a scripture used to reference satan in the old testament. But its not talking about satan. Its talking about the king of tyrus. Its a parable. He is basically telling the king of tyrus that God had given him everything and that it was because of his iniquity the everything would now be taken away. In the old testament hell is just the grave. There is no "lake of fire" its not until Jesus in
    4 points
  39. I suggest you take personal responsibility for your actions.
    4 points
  40. THE VECTOR In the physical sector A serpent-like spectre Directed a lecture On apple-sweet nectar A neglectful protector With omnipotent scepter His creation's rejector Into hell's great convector ~TRP
    4 points
  41. If Christians wish to embrace this new delusion, they better be consistent. Vaccines are usually injected into the upper arm of a person. Since vaccines are literal, and they are being called the "Mark of the beast", then the interpretation of Revelation 13 must be literal. Simply ask them if they are right, why doesn't the bible say "the upper arm" instead of the right hand or forehead. This lazy eschatological response by these idiots only shows they have never read the bible let alone know the last 2,000 years of failed prophecies about the mark of the beast.
    3 points
  42. My parents' church is everything @Fuego said but a lot of being "slain in the spirit." We're talking major carnage when a prophet or evangelist comes by; bodies stacked like cord wood. They have these special pieces of cloth, like a small throw blanket, to cover the women with; because, apparently, the holy spirit has the power to knock them out, but does not have the power to keep their dresses from flying up when they hit the carpet.
    3 points
  43. Here in The South: Waitress: "What can I get ya to drink, Sug?" Me: "I'll have a Coke." Waitress: "What kind of Coke, hon? We got Sprite, Dr. Pepper, Mountain Dew, Cheerwine..." Me: "Pepsi, no ice."
    3 points
  44. When all this Joe bullshit is over, could someone please explain the attraction to engaging him, not to mention all this convoluted forum hopping and multiple topics. He's getting more attention than any dozen other Christians combined and he's offering less than any one of them. Several people seem seriously invested in this clown and I'm really curious if I'm just too old and befuddled to understand.
    3 points
  45. The fact that good existed beforehand isn't the issue Joe. Adam's inability to recognize and understand it is. The entire garden was good, god was good and all of god's creation was good. But Adam was made blind to both good and evil. That's why Eve, who was made from Adam's rib couldn't recognize Satan as evil. They were both blind to good and evil. Wouldn't you agree, Joe?
    3 points
  46. Or let's put it another way. Do you command a child born blind not to eat the red apple and then get upset when they can't tell the difference between red apples and green apples? And then do you curse the child and all of its descendants with death for not making the right choice? Especially when you knew all along that they would make the wrong choice? Think about it.
    3 points
  47. Hell exists. My mailbox has 49 Pittsburghjoe has posted notifications. I hate you
    3 points
  48. This is why I have started to make a more concerted effort to find the beauty, serenity, and tenderness of everyday life. These doomsday, post-apocalyptic dystopian what-ifs produce little more, for me, than the opportunity of wasting this precious moment worrying over a terrifying future that would certainly not heed any warning or instruction I might have given it. Smell the god damn roses while we still got them to smell, y'all.
    3 points
  49. I actually finally got halfway through the book just this week. It seems one theme so far is that feelings cannot be relied upon even though feelings essentially guide all our decision-making - and there is an evolutionary basis for such "guidance." Therefore one should attempt to separate themselves from being caught up in their emotions by using meditation. We also attach "essence" to things that are of our own creation (such as when we label certain beautiful plants as "weeds"). The other theory - which is harder to conceptualize - is how we have many selves that surface at different mome
    3 points


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