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  1. 5 points
    If christians and all other religious fanatics would mind their own business, respect the boundaries and privacy of others, not meddle into the pelvic areas of consenting adults, and keep their personal relationship with their particular deity out of politics, they probably wouldn't be "persecuted." But that would really suck because it would mess up their big ol' martyr complex. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Myth_of_Persecution https://thehumanist.com/magazine/may-june-2017/church-state/great-persecution-christians-myth
  2. 5 points
    Every time a Christian comes here to hear our deconversion stories and engage us in either friendly discussion or debate, the result is consistent. They'll ignore our points and throw out ad hominems and non sequiturs, and then disappear without addressing any of the legitimate points we raise. Call me a reductionist, but I wonder why a Christian publication would be any different than the individual Christians we encounter here.
  3. 5 points
    First off I would say you need to be selfish to a degree. That is to prioritise your needs before giving anything away. Make sure the basics are covered, rent, food, expenses and cut anything like donations until you are in a good place. You need to consider your shopping habits from a need verse luxury view. Do you spend on anything you can do without? Movies, music, dvds, smoking, drinking etc. You don't have to cut it completely but that stuff is low priority and should be a rare treat rather than constant expense. What are your eating habits like? Do you eat out, eat junk or snack constantly? Easy to forget how much we spend on food and massive savings can be made with a bit of effort. Run a food diary for a week or two and make sure you have a clear idea of those costs and potential savings. Sit down and work out a really basic budget. Income on one side, rent, expenses, bills, average monthly costs on the other. Once you have a clear understanding of the amount you have to play with, you can figure out savings verse entertainment. One simplistic method is divide in thirds. One third for rent/mortgage, one third for expenses and one third for saving, spending and the unexpected. This method can work in certain places, but not so much in big cities or high cost areas. Another suggestion is to talk to your bank. Many have advisory services that will help structure your accounts, sort out debt repayments, and make sure what you have is working the best for you. Debt is the other big pitfall. If you have any ability to avoid debt (eg don't take international trips if you have to borrow to do so) then stay debt free. If you have to borrow then make sure you shop around to compare interest rates and fees, especially with the smaller dodgy loan companies, they will aim to ruin you. Make sure that if you are going to use a credit card that you pay it off in full before the interest period.
  4. 4 points
    So in some countries Christians aren't allowed to infect people with their toxic faith. Sweet. Hopefully with enough education and free flow of information, Christianity will wither away and die. The internet really has dealt a major blow to this idiotic religion.
  5. 4 points
    But you can help the things written here by you! Trolls and Trolling. How do we define it and who is guilty of trolling? Many members here have been expressing frustration with these "trolling" posts aimed at irritating and insulting ex christian members of this community for no visible good reason, aside from trying to poke at people and get a reaction. It needs to stop now. Pointing at members here and calling them 'troll-ish' (refer to the guidelines above) doesn't justify the trolling that you've been doing. This is where it ends. @florduh @buffettphan
  6. 4 points
  7. 3 points
    The problem here is that this belief doesn't make sense if god is omnipotent. According to the bible, god confused the languages at the tower of Babel. If god is fluent enough in each language to understand and answer prayers in each, then it stands to reason that he should also be able to translate his word accurately into each language. We are back to a god who can't seem to say what he means. Only, this time it's not because he is mysterious or anything; it's because he's incompetent. Or rather, trusts his word to incompetent writers. If god cannot control the accurate translation of his word, then he's not omnipotent. If god makes mistakes, even just a small one, then he is not omnipotent. Incidentally, if god can not maje mistakes, then he is also not omnipotent.
  8. 3 points
    Here in DougTuckey Oregon xmass greetings, in a loud ruckus voice, is a battle cry. It's how the masses identify each other and warn intimidate the non-believers. There are more of us than you. We are righteous and you are an evil little piss-ant who puts science above god. You have no rights - including the right to live. We have the right to kill you but Muslims are evil because they think they have the right to kill non-Muslims. Many xitans in this town are not like that and are quite decent and loving but there are enough of those described above that I actually limit activities outside of my home office, like grocery shopping and communicating with Mrs. MOHO, during the xmass season. As I've written here before I am highly motivated to voice my beliefs when appropriate but sometimes it can be downright dangerous. These people run around with their concealed carry permits and go on about how Satan is everywhere and we're prepared. You all know how powerful group dynamics can be. Sorry to be such a Debby Downer but so many of the pastor asshats out there have glomed onto the war on xmass concept as a means of mitigating the mass out-flux of sheeple that it sometimes feels like a war zone here.
  9. 3 points
    Another way of viewing their claims. The doctrine of original sin is a self fulfilling prophecy. If you truely believe you are incomplete, and incapable, and need gods help to be saved, then it is so. You are hooked for life, and dependent on the religious police and saviors for guidance.
  10. 3 points
    The gods of other ancient religions were often a lot like people with superpowers, not really omnipotent or omniscient. Most were regarded as local gods, even if they had creation myths. I think this shows up a lot in the Jewish writings, but believers gloss over it or make excuses. Remember the iron chariots scene? “And the Lord was with Judah; and he drave out the inhabitants of the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron.” —Judges 1:19
  11. 3 points
    I don't recall using the term evidence, however what I'm looking for is verifiable facts (evidence if you like) supporting the rational conclusion that a claim is true or false. For example if I say to you "I have a dog in my back yard", and you say back up the claim, I can provide you with photos, invite you to come to my place, you can see the dog poop, maybe pick it up for me, and most importantly pat and interact with the dog. At that point I've presented you with verifiable facts (evidence) supporting the rational conclusion that there is a dog in my back yard. If I did this to 100 people, notwithstanding any mental disorders, they would all agree that there is a dog in my back yard. At that point we can all reasonably confidently state that it is a fact of reality that there is a dog in my back yard. Now, I tell you there is A transcendent, immaterial, invisible Pink Unicorn in my back yard... evidence for this you ask? Well I have a book, I feel good. I asked the unicorn to find my keys and lo and behold I found them. I had a headache, I prayed to the unicorn and it went away... at that point you be like yeah, nah bro... I mean verifiable evidence. Hopefully that gives you some idea of what I mean by "do you have anything other than the bible to back up your claim".
  12. 3 points
    Materialists Christians need to be stroked in their un belief so they seek out like minds and all get together and commune in their un belief. Sad, I must say.
  13. 3 points
    They may want to point out why our reasons to deconvert are misguided and how we never were true Christian's anyway. Bottom line is Jebus is always number one and people are shit in a Christian's eyes. I wouldn't expect any real empathy or understanding from a Christian publication.
  14. 3 points
    You lost your crutches and now you can’t walk. Alternatives to going back to the crutches: 1. Use a scooter or wheelchair. Find (or better, make) a new purpose. For some, it is what is at hand: work, family. Others find a philosophy or even a non-theistic religion like buddhism. A community or some sort of support network sounds like it might help given that your old support feels hollow. I have known people who sought out buddhist meditation groups, and I have known at least one atheist quaker. 2. Fix your legs. As Midnite Rider said, maybe it is time to see a physician or therapist. Maybe it is biological; maybe it is something else in your life; maybe it is your old religion itself, or having left it. As evidenced by the existence of exchristian.net, religious trauma is a thing . . . . Having left theism, I am still fascinated by religion and the things that people come up with, most recently hinduism. And I still like some of the trappings of the old religion like christmas music. But there is no way I could turn to christianity to find actual purpose in my life; besides the fact that it is all made up, the faith I was raised in was just too toxic.
  15. 3 points
    Ezekiel was talking about something he expected to happen soon. He made other prophecies that didn't come true. It is also probable that many of the people who made the efforts to restore Israel were Christians and Jews who would have interest in it due to their religious beliefs and had likely read the Book of Ezekiel. If someone has a book of prophesies they believe in, and they decide to take the actions to fulfill the prophesies in that book, is that really such a miraculous thing?
  16. 3 points
    I vote with the leave-it-alone group, and for reasons already stated. One of the things that annoys us about Christians is that they want to push their religion upon us — some strongly and some subtly. So in the same vein, we should not do anything that they might interpret as pushing a point of view upon them. I recall once going to lunch at a fast food joint with someone I hadn't known before that day. As we sat down with our burgers, he asked if I minded if he said grace. I said fine, and he put out his hands wanting me to grab on. I did but was extremely uncomfortable with that, and in retrospect I should have said that I was not a Christian but didn't mind if he went forward on his own. It was a one-shot meeting so there was no future to think about.
  17. 2 points
    It's a great time of year to be in a foreign country. In Mexico, the commercialization is very low. If you're lucky, *maybe* one person might say 'feliz navidad' to you on Christmas Eve. It's more important than Dec. 25th here. The whole gift exchange thing doesn't occur until King's Day, early January. Right around my birthday, as a matter of fact. Last year I especially enjoyed the nativity display on the town square. It starts off with Joseph, Mary and the animals. But no baby, because he hasn't been born yet! Then in the days leading up to the big day, the wise men are placed in a corner of the plaza and slowly move closer each day. Then on Dec. 25, voila! Baby Jesus is present and the wise men gather around. Not a perfect timeline, but it kinda made me chuckle. This is from Mexico City this last December (attached)
  18. 2 points
    Debunking quackery is a constructive enterprise. Once the door is open to belief in chi, energy fields, meridians, chakras and faith healing, the path eventually leads to trusting your health and well being to crystals, magnets, Goop, homeopathic concoctions or peach pits to cure cancer. "Energy healing" is no different than the Christian superstition of laying on hands. Giving it another name changes nothing. Sorry, I'll never back away from exposing quackery because I've seen the harm it does. With that, I leave you all to your thread with fingers crossed.
  19. 2 points
    If we are in gods image, does that mean hes a dirty old perv too?
  20. 2 points
    No, you can't have it both ways. Either He punishes people for things outside of their control, for thought crimes and for where they were born, or He is just and merciful. You cannot punish people for an infinite time for finite crimes and claim it is justice in any way.
  21. 2 points
    Do you (or did you) believe god was Just, Merciful and All-loving? If so, such a being would not punish people unjustly. The concept of hell, that is punishment for things outside of your control, a permanent punishment for temporary crimes, does not even make sense for such a god. There is no justice in punishing people for being born in the wrong household, or coming to doubt based on the world we see. The very idea is a contradiction to god's nature.
  22. 2 points
    I would think that if the Bible god really existed we would see unified doctrines and holy text that doesn't conflict with history, science and observable reality. No one would need convincing any more than they would need to be convinced the moon revolves around our planet. We can easily determine that as fact. I can think of nothing that would move me to think that an all powerful, all good, all knowing creator would send people to Hell and drown everything on the planet saving only one family and mating pairs of every insect, marsupial, bird, mammal and bacterium on one little boat that also had to include live food for all those breeding pairs. And all that poop! But you know all the asinine stuff in that convoluted tale of talking snakes and unicorns.
  23. 2 points
    I'm too impatient to sit behind shrubs and whatnot to try to spot gods in the wild in order to study them. mwc
  24. 2 points
    I fucked up most of my good xmas memories when my first marriage imploded. I had really fond memories of songs like Evening in December. Now that just makes me think of all the holidays I missed with my kids. At least one of them still talks to me some, but I really hate that fucking song now. This topic is part of a larger issue, which is having all these really nice, warm fuzzy memories connected to music and holidays and friends completely and utterly destroyed just because you now realize that Jesus isn't real. I see things on Facebook - old friends with their kids all grown up and having families of their own, and I want to 'like' and comment, but then I remember how that's going to go. The questions. The shock and horror. The silence. Awkward! So I don't click anything. I'm the kind of person that really enjoys reconnecting with people from the past. But when your past is fused to christianity and your present is completely divorced from it, reconnecting generally doesn't go well. So christianity basically fucks up everything in its wake. I should probably convert this into a blog post or essay. Sorry for dumping on your thread.
  25. 2 points
    I'm pretty sure the rest of that quote is something like ".....but god, if he exists, knows what that would be" which is kind of where I am with it. I don't personally believe anything would ever bring back to christianity, short of some sort of personal experience. But even then, I don't know that christian dogma is the same as a spiritual experience. I'm solidly agnostic, in general, because I think we should humble enough to just say we don't know. It's one thing to wonder about the universe and all the things that could be out there, but to claim existential truths as a little primate is amusing to me.
  26. 2 points
    "Right" has no place in politics. Might makes right, always did and always will. Was it right for England to keep her colonies, including us, by force? Is it right that America, since breaking away from England, is doing the same things England did and does? But to your original question, I think the southern slaves thought it was right.
  27. 1 point
    We've been waiting for this show and it was worth it. Here's our take and the similarities of the over-the-top characters and ones we all know. https://deconversiontherapypodcast.com/2019/09/18/the-righteous-gemstones-is-funny-as-hell/ iTunes . Spotify
  28. 1 point
    I totally agree with TruthSeeker0. You've been sucked in by this trick that keeps you from asking the obvious questions Rickswordfish. If you want to figure out if christiany is true go back to the beginning, leave all the christian preconceptions and slights of hand behind and with a mind that is open to whatever it discovers ask yourself if this religion appears to come from something beyond the bronze age thinking that was common at that time and in the place it was written. Is the god they describe much different from and especially advanced beyond the men who were writing about him? In my opinion there is absolutely no chance that this story of christianity is true, and being untrue it's neither necessary nor valuable to look for extraordinary truths that might possibly be contained in the many confusing jumbles of words written by primitives living in a barely developed social structure. I guess if any of us were to stare at something, anything, long enough and intently enough something eventually will appear to take shape but what does that matter especially considering that there are so many more profitable and/or enjoyable ways for us to spend the precious bit of time we have be given.
  29. 1 point
    Jehovah-jireh, my provider. His grace is a-fishin' for me.
  30. 1 point
    Being a person-pleaser is perfectly okay, provided you remember you are also a person.
  31. 1 point
    This post has been a long time coming, I feel it to be a necessity in order for me to truly move on. I joined this site June of 2013 and it served as a new community after severing ties with my church circles. Over time, I've talked to some incredible people, some I've had the privilege of meeting in person. I've even found relationships here, twice, something that I didn't expect from a forum of this nature. That's not to say that I've gotten along with everyone but that's inevitable when you gather many individuals with separate life experiences all in one place. Many who were with me on this journey are now long gone from the site and thus, perhaps it's time I follow in their footsteps. There are several reasons why I'm choosing this route. I see this site as a sort of medicine, a kind or treatment for people who have been negatively affected by Christianity. I'm at the point where I hardly think about it in a daily basis, the days where I was a church drone are in the distant past now as well as any residual emotions that came along with them. I think it is safe to say that I have completed the recovery cycle and have moved on to other things, other groups, other interests, etc. There is no sense in continuing to take the medicine if you aren't afflicted with the condition it was intended to heal. There is nothing more that I can gain from this site or contribute. Sure, I might encourage new non believers here every once in a while but there are those here who feel more passionate about it and thus will do a much better job than me. On top of this, an ideological rift has formed between me and the majority of the members here. I don't think these differences are reconcilable, the tribal nature of humanity precludes that from ever happening. I suppose that I've found my tribe elsewhere at this point. I would like to thank everyone who recently commented on the thread where my father passed away. I much appreciate the advice and encouragement. The same goes for everyone who is still reading me and have done the same in other instances. Right now I will reach out and say my goodbyes to some of the members here via PM. Once they all reply, I will ask Margee or one of the mods to permanently delete my profile. Anyways, that is all I have to say for now.
  32. 1 point
    You've come to the wrong place. One cannot prove a negative. We can't prove Santa doesn't exist anymore than we can prove that gods don't exist. The burden is upon believers to prove (1) there is a god and (2) the writings we've come to know as the Bible are actually that god's word. Again, all this Bible/God shit isn't your problem, it's a symptom. We are not mental health professionals. We can only point out the fallacies of Christian beliefs but it gets tiresome doing that when you can't/won't accept the answers and source material. You say "please answer the question" but I would say "please listen to the fucking answers."
  33. 1 point
    Hmm I know those ideas that come with full force. Most of time however it seems to that they are empty phrases filled with fear, shame, guilt etc . Senseless like some advertising slogans. We cannot judge God in human terms. What does it mean to judge, anyway? What does God mean what does human mean what human terms mean? For exemple is judging saying attributes, etc words , ideas about God? That is what all the Scripture and theology is about. And it is absurd because because we are humans. In order to understand anything whatsoever about God even divine revelation we do it AS humans. I mean the Bible is written in human language. Trust like a child This one is contradicted by the man himself Jesus when he says to be pure as a dove and wise as a snake and the Apostle Paul when he says that cgristians should not be childish, but mature and children only in regards to doing evil. Threat of hell. Yes, like you may know this is one of the biggest for me and for most. First there is a tradition of universalism within the church. Modern proponents are illaria ramelli and david bentley hart, both scholars one in ancient graeco roman history the other in philosophy. And again doest not make any sense whatsoever. This is something I observe about these thoughts. Extreme power, little to no meaning/ sense. Like some kind of mental bullies. Do not put your lord to the test. A tricky one, but I actually asked this one, I did not get a goid answer, but anyway. The context, with the trials of Jesus in the desert at least, means being wicked with God. Like trying to trick him or just do it for fun . Othrwise the Bible is full of tests the prophets and saints people did with God. I mean case in point Elijah and the fire. I dot know exactly how to deal with them. For me EMDR therapy has been of help though. Reading cult manipulation tehniques, effects of trauma and stuff regardung mental health in general is doing si.e good things.
  34. 1 point
    That undifferentiated center is the Tao, Nirvana, the neoplatonists’ One. Heraclitus used the analogy of a bow and bowstring to illustrate it; you have to pull both ways (one interpretation). Not to say that everything has to be both good and bad. Of human behavior, I think it is more like, the capacity for good implies the capacity for evil. If we were robots mindlessly carrying out preprogrammed instructions, there would be neither good nor evil. Our capacity to think, “I am going to choose this action because it is for the common good, even though I personally could do better,” it implies that we could have thought, “I am going to get mine even if it means ruining everybody else.”
  35. 1 point
  36. 1 point
    I’m glad to have found a group here! I was raised in a rather lukewarm Catholicism as a child, but became very fundamentalist catholic in my late teens/early 20s in a desperate attempt to find meaning and be “pleasing to god”. Of course, being false, I never found meaning and living according to the dictates of religion was the cause of many, many poor decisions. I’m in my 30s and now extricating myself from a religious mindset and living my life on my terms. I’m looking forward to being a part of the group here, and I’ll make a longer post in the testimony section at some point!
  37. 1 point
    He didn't exactly seem the type to "turn the other cheek", that's for sure.
  38. 1 point
    Welcome, @UniversalFriendliness , Glad you found us. Religion and true - in the same sentence. Interesting. I recon that depends on your definition but, in my book, religion means to adhere to a doctrine or set of beliefs even in the face of new information. BAD! - MOHO (Mind Of His Own)
  39. 1 point
    Welcome! After decades of studying religions I decided that the closest thing to true religion is a statement attributed to Jesus, and wise people before him, which is to Love neighbor as self. Or the golden rule, etc. To me it is simple, rational, humane thinking. I believe leaving the Catholic church was a very wise decision. Much of their history is of being one of the most greedy, corrupt, pompous, institutions in the world.
  40. 1 point
    So much so they have set regular meeting times on a specific day to do this!
  41. 1 point
    Surferdude must not be in a hurry to solve his problems. He hasn't come back to give any specifics about his situation.
  42. 1 point
    I too am 47 and was indoctrinated with camels and needles and such. My catholic priest took a vow of poverty to renounce his worldly possessions. He said that “Without money we would all be rich.” How is your relationship with money unhealthy? Do you waste money? Is money dirty? The root of all evil? I choose to view my frugal attitude towards money as generally a good thing. Our dying planet does not need more consumers. I lead a simple life, growing my own food, shopping at second-hand stores, and teaching my kids to do the same. I do own my own house so of course this makes a big difference. It means that I don’t need a large income or need to work full-time. I would rather have the extra time than the extra cash. My only regret is that I haven’t saved much money for my retirement, so like you, I have some catching up to do. In past eras, extended family would look after their elderly, community would look after the poor. Perhaps that is what is meant by “Without money we would all be rich”?
  43. 1 point
    Can you imagine enjoying paradise knowing your loved ones were sent to hell? Maybe god wipes away our human empathy to make sure we are guaranteed happiness? And why the hell would a loving god build a torture chamber at all?
  44. 1 point
    The carbon date has been questioned by believers who don't want their fantasy ruined, no unbiased source has any problems with the dating done. The image on the shroud has been replicated several times. Researchers found that painting a body with an acidic ink compound and wrapping it, let it dry then wash, would give a similar image. We don't know the exact compound used or additional treatments applied, and can't age a test shroud 500 years, but there are certainly valid hypothesis for the image creation. The blood showing "polytrauma" comes from a biased paper that was retracted as flawed. The piece of cloth dealt with was 1mm long and the techniques used questionable. They looked at single particles of iron and protein and said bonding only occurs under stress, but a single particle can't tell you what trauma the victim suffered and the same bonding would occur in butchered animal blood. A carved up cow certainly suffered "polytrauma". There are several obvious things that point to it not being really used as Jesus's burial shroud. For one, once your heart stops you don't bleed. The body would be cleaned then wrapped, so there should be no blood stains at all. Second we have documented history back to 1350 but nothing prior, and that exactly matches the carbon dating results. Thirdly the bible doesn't mention this miracle. You would have thought a relic showing a ghostly image as the sole reminder of an event, something deemed important enough to be protected and worshipped for thousands of years, would have got a mention. The image itself, when made into a real face, gives an appearance of a European, not the middle Eastern look we would expect. And lastly the blood on the hand would have had the nail driven through the palm or wrist, neither of which were used by the Romans who knew only the forearm had the strength to hold up someones body weight. A nail through the hand would tear out.
  45. 1 point
    I was confirmed by Archbishop Philip Wilson, also convicted (then exonerated) for covering up child sex abuse. The local Catholics still defend him...
  46. 1 point
    I'm not sure if anybody is enjoying or benefiting from this any longer. If y'all really do enjoy asking questions to a broken record let me know. I don't want to stop anyone's fun.
  47. 1 point
    Luth would probably think it was a "stupid game" if one of us kept saying that to him.
  48. 1 point
    The South wanted to break away because they were afraid that the election of Lincoln would prevent the spread of slavery to new territories in the west (it was a part of the Republican platform and even in the South he did reasonably well during the election so it wasn't "the people" that were afraid of these politics). So when he won South Carolina immediately seceded. A year later others followed. It was during this year that the federal Fort Sumter was taken by South Carolina. Without going into all the details this is essentially what started the war. It wasn't Lincoln who struck any first blows but he didn't let it go either. The people were extremely loyal to their states and followed along with the cause (pretty much on either side). People who disagreed went to war against their own families. So he basically did what he was supposed to do as the President. In that sense it was "right." Doesn't make it any less tragic. I suppose we might say his motivations were better than those on the opposing side who simply wanted to preserve slavery (among other "traditions") and were willing to go to whatever extremes in order to do so but he was far from noble and if you ask native Americans you'll get a different opinion of him (and other presidents). mwc
  49. 1 point
    Yes, I'm replying to myself. Just for clarity. What I meant was what we perceive as a soul is just our brain activity. Our brain is advanced enough that is has self-awareness that some confuse with, or have been told since birth, is a soul.
  50. 1 point
    "There are some very fine people on both sides."



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