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Showing content with the highest reputation on 01/23/2019 in all areas

  1. 4 points
    You were indoctrinate, just like the rest of us. Indoctrinated minds do not process information rationally. Indoctrinated minds process information in the way they have been trained to process it. So, don’t be so hard on yourself. You were smart enough to figure out what was happening and you overcame it. That was a major accomplishment. Congrats.
  2. 2 points
    I am so happy lately to be learning. I am 39 and finally learning about evolution. I am learning about things outside of the Bible. The Bible is not and should never be used as instruction for history or science or well anything. The day my children are forced to learn anything from the Bible in their public schools will be the day I come unhinged and out of the closet as an atheist. I will come out loud, proud, angry, and shouting. I just recently told my oldest children that if this ever happens to let me know. I told them that if they feel their teachers aren’t fully teaching them about things like evolution to let me know. We live in the Bible Belt so I’m pretty certain only the basics may be taught. I am going to take it upon myself to make certain my children learn the truth. Soon I am taking my girls to the Natural History Museum which is about 2 hours from our house. I am 39 and I have never seen dinosaur fossils except in videos. I saw a replica at the O’Hare airport but never the real thing. The replica literally brought me to tears. I can’t explain to everyone how much happier I am to have finally fully escaped the religious delusion I was living under. Sometimes I am angry and sad about the whole ordeal and you may sense that in my posts from time to time. I am not simply blaming my parents for this. The indoctrination was wrong yes, their continued pushing beliefs on me and my children is wrong. I however take responsibility for not pulling away from all of this sooner. I take responsibility for ignoring truths which were directly in my face and I also take responsibility for my own ignorance regarding scientific truths. I want to learn and know. I have been watchcing a lot of AronRa’s videos lately and I’m loving it! ❤️ If anyone can point me to more learning resources I would appreciate it.
  3. 2 points
    Yeah but it takes like 3 weeks to get there by air. They have huge flightless birds that eat dogs and small kids. And everything’s upside down. At least they don’t have venomous songbirds like Australia. In Australia EVERYTHING wants to kill you. They change Prime Ministers about every 10 months because they keep getting eaten by sharks or strangled by kangaroos 🦘
  4. 2 points
    You handled that like a man, Dex! Good on 'ya!
  5. 2 points
    Least we forget how we viewed the world when we were Christians. Our Christian world revolved around Jesus, God, and Paul. They were the truth, everything else was of Satan. Atheists were agents of the Devil and they spewed nothing from their mouths but lies, falsehoods, and immorally. The physical world was Evil and ruled by Satan, the master of lies and deceit, and his Demons. The Spiritual world, ruled by God and his angels, was our promised home, but only if we remained faithful. The real truth terrifies Christians so they are not about to listen to anything we have to day. We can provide all the evidence in the world, and thousands of testimonies that relate the horors of religion, but it will fall on the deaf ears of Christians because they fear us, because they believe we are agents of Satan Himself. Make no mistake about it William’s goal is to bring some lost sheep back into the fold. He isn’t here to learn anything, because he’s on a mission.
  6. 1 point
    Talking to fundies about religion is like talking to the wall.
  7. 1 point
    Aron Ra has some great videos but some are so complex on deep subjects (the categories of life ones come to mind) that its often not aimed at a beginner level. I remember going to the museum for the first time and seeing the dinosaurs. I don't think you appreciate the share size of the animals until you stand beside one. They had the full T-Rex skeleton at Auckland museum, and we are so lucky these things went extinct. Humans are relatively useless, we have no natural weapons or defences, aren't great swimmers or climbers and are slower than most predators.
  8. 1 point
    This whole exchange (at both sites) has been confusing, to be honest. And by both parties involved. They seem to wonder why in the world ex christians were invited. Maybe the motivations were discussed behind the scenes with the staff, I wouldn't doubt. I would think that there would be some underlying motivation geared at trying to win back souls. But there may not be. Not sure how that would fit into the theology presented.
  9. 1 point
    I never really studied the predestination theories. Does his have a little different twist to it? It always seemed crazy to me. If you believe in a system like that, it's a guessing game as to whether you will be saved. Sounds like a system to drive insecure people crazy. Or am I missing something?
  10. 1 point
    Right. Omnipresence indicates pantheism. I think?
  11. 1 point
    And an omnipresent god would already be you, in the first place.
  12. 1 point
    Possibly. But he's said that salvation is basically determined by god and carried out by the holy spirit. Hence no interest in apologetic's or arguing. Aside from simply interacting and leaving everything up to the holy spirit, I don't know exactly what to make of it. William mentioned to me that after reading around he sees a lot of problems with apologist's and the directions they have taken - suggesting that the whole thing needs to be reconsidered. Indeed, there's myriad reasons as to why apologetic's needs to be completely reconsidered.
  13. 1 point
    I can recommend the book, “The Fabricated Paul” by Hermann Detering. The author presents evidence that Paul was a literary character not a real person.
  14. 1 point
    This past weekend I made a special trip two states over to visit my grandparents. Specifically my grandfather whose health is rapidly fading due to his considerable age. It has been a very quick decline where, at Thanksgiving, my grandparents could travel without assistance. Then by Christmas, a small stroke took out my grandfather's legs. Now, just a month later, his mind is flickering like a lightbulb struggling to stay lit. It was clear that sooner, rather than later, was the time to visit. So I visited with them over the weekend. I did get to speak to my grandfather some. At times his eyes were bright and he was fully lucid, but then at times his eyes would glass over and he'd lose his grip on the moment. We were able to talk during those lucid moments, though I could also see he exerted a lot of effort to hold to his right mind. Sunday afternoon came and it was time for me to return home. But I was conflicted. How do you end a visit like that knowing with reasonable certainty that this will be your last? Hand shakes and well wishes? Hardly. Tearful embrace? That's not the type of man my grandfather is, nor any of the other men in my family. I stalled, unsure how to give finality to the moment. He was losing lucidity anyway, having exhausted himself talking to me. Then my father who was there too just said that before either of us left, we'd like to pray with my grandfather. My father doesn't know of my deconversion so this was not a presumptuous statement. And nor was I about to say no in that moment. So the three of us held hands while we prayed in a circle. Me, of course, just expressing my thankfulness (to no one in particular) about being able to visit and appreciation for the moments I'll forever cherish. My grandfather also mustered the strength he had left and also prayed his thanks for being blessed with a family so large and so close as he'd never imagined when he'd taken a fancy to my grandmother more than 70 years ago. He prayed until he had no energy left and afterwards, he reclined back in his chair with a large smile on his face. That was the closure I sought.
  15. 1 point
    Welcome Bug, glad you have joined us. You mentioned some great resources that helps deconversion. Fear is one of the greatest things to overcome. Never be afraid to reach out and ask for help.
  16. 1 point
    You are absolutely on your way out and carefully and thoroughly reasearching the topic as you're doing is the quickest way to distance yourself from all the fear christianity implanted in you to keep you from leaving. The very most shocking realization you are likely to uncover is that there is absolutely nothing about christianity that is compelling. It looks from every angle to be the man made fairytail that it is (along with bits and pieces of ignorance, wisdom, disgusting advice, beautiful poetry, you name it all thrown together pell-mell). If there's any chance the awful creature they came up with in the bible is a personal god then every human being aught to be very afraid irregardless of what they believe in. The life that we apparently have is so much better and simpler so really good for you Bug! You're young with a nice athiest partner and just starting the best part of your life. It is so very nice to have you with us.
  17. 1 point
    I do need to apologise for Ray Comfort on behalf of all New Zealander's - we exported him to you thus improving the IQ of both countries
  18. 1 point
    This is true lol This is also true. As a Christian, I believed I was "persecuted" because other people were like "You believe god killed himself to repay himself to save you from things he could just decide don't bug him? weird. Yeah, not gonna believe that." Now that I've left, I can see clearly how little people who aren't believers care about the Christian faith. We're not persecuting you just because you want the whole country run with the rules that you apply to your own life. We're not persecuting you by not converting or agreeing. Just don't get all up in our face about it with your faith, you know? _____ William ( @Christforums ), you were not actively persecuted here for your faith, you sought us out on our forum and made comments about "some" having "third grade level education on Christianity" without having any idea what some of us have been through. You can't come in, make comments like that, throw in a "God Bless" knowing how we'd probably feel about it, and then behave as though we've just victimized you without having done anything wrong. Just consider our side if only for a moment. It's easy, from your perspective, to say that you came in and gave a friendly invitation and "that's all" and we "just attacked you" for "no reason" which is not really what happened. We have this forum for ex-christians, one of which you are not; people to find healing and community among other people with similar paths and wounds. We also made a subforum for proselytizing, instead of banning you, because we don't want to be those kind of people. So we direct believers who wish to interact with us to the lion's den where some of our comfortably deconverted will tackle the "same ole, same ole" material. Very often, our refusal to "play along" turns into "an attack." But, we aren't seeking these people out to just bully or persecute them for their faith, we are defending our own beliefs and how we got there from "friendly greetings" that are often "you'll burn forever" messages wrapped up with an "I'm better than you" bow. We receive regular "friendly greetings" from people who "aren't here to evangelize" (nearly indistinguishable from your initial one) and then, after we ask questions that can be difficult to answer or give unexpected responses, our guests are "called away by God" (with or without some kind of warning about eternal torment). It starts to look really disingenuous in our eyes. With your greeting specifically, there was a condescending tone that we could not have known you meant as friendly until we interacted more with you. This really does appear to be miscommunication all around. Can't we just all agree to set aside some of the aggressiveness, put down the fists and dialogue?
  19. 1 point
    I'm also sorry to hear about your grandfather, but I'm so glad you got the closure you were seeking. I recently lost my Granny and I suspect soon my Grandfather may follow and I've been feeling quite anxious about how I will react to all this now that I no longer believe in prayer or an afterlife. Thank you for this post. I think it's beautiful that you were able to break down any walls and just be present in that moment to cherish your loved one, regardless of any differences. I hope I can find the courage to do the same when the time comes.
  20. 1 point
    I dunno, I really don't. I will heed this advice for strangers in general when it's a mild statement and brief on their part. But the way I see it, is when someone opens their mouth and talks about their personal beliefs (something which I believe we should keep to ourselves on the topic of religion), then I say it's a fair game to talk about mine. I cannot overstate how tired I am of the deference to religion and "oh they're religious so they're good people" mentality. I fight back against this. If you want to tell me about Christ you're also asking to hear why Christ likely didn't exist. If you want to talk about how Easter is important you'll hear about why it isn't important to me. I'm tired of not saying anything. I said nothing about my xtian fundie beliefs my entire life among regular society and ultimately that harmed me. Just not willing to continue with the pattern. The thing that gets to me the most is when Christians make statements that imply that everyone else present agrees with them. There's only one situation where I put up with this because silence is the best option, and that is with family. Anyone else, and I'm just so done with keeping my mouth shut.
  21. 1 point
    That sounds wonderful Dexter! Good for you and your father and your grandfather. I’m positive the visit was very welcome on your grandfather’s part even if it was exhausting. How very thoughtful of you to spend time focused on your grandfather when he is going through what must at times be a confusing and disconcerting period of his life. Most importantly he felt your love for him. Probably the three of you were able to acknowledge the significance of the reunion and your love for one another through the prayer format when otherwise it would probably have seemed too awkward to attemp. i’m sure you’ll treasure the memory of your visit for the rest of your life.
  22. 1 point
    I’m sorry about your grandfather’s decline but I’m glad you were able to be there with him and other family members. You handled it well. We’re all on this rock together, believers and non-believers and sometimes it’s just best to link arms and support each other regardless of any differences. It’s good too to have an attitude of thankfulness even if we have no deity to thank. It was a bittersweet day I’m sure. Thanks for sharing it with us, Dexter!
  23. 1 point
    Hi HoneyBib and welcome to our little corner of the world here. I too am so sorry to hear that you are so sad and frightened. There are some possible similarities between experiences you briefly mention and events that occurred in my life when I was in my early twenties. The good news is that I did get better. It sounds likely that you experienced some kind of shift when you were 13 meaning your life sort of jumped track and you have moved along since in a different place on a different track with a different landscape. The shift occurred due to negative frightening events and you can never go back and get on the same track you were on but your train is still moving and the new landscape will not be all barren and sunless if you can just hang on one day at a time. Perhaps something in your mind was overwhelmed and temporarily lost it’s ability to produce a necessary feel good chemical or temporarily couldn’t make some - important to you mental well being - electrical connections. If your case is like mine was then these things will very slowly repair themselves to a large extent although you will not be just as you were before. Definitely you should not feel the emptiness you feel now but some of the intensity of feelings you previously had will probably be lost. Real easily identifiable happiness will return with greater and greater frequency and you can then put your new life together and with the wisdom of having seen what things caused you harm you can build in safeguards and protect yourself from ever being hurt like that again. You are so very young that the vast majority of your life is ahead. I get the impression that you are being careful and thoughtful with yourself and that is very important as is learning to be that good supportive patient parent to yourself the one that you may never have had. Those kind of panicked feelings that something horrible is just around the corner should become less frequent and less intense with time and although this is a slow process it should start happening so if it doesn’t you should probably seek out some professional help. The abilities and sincerity of mental health workers runs the spectrum so you have to be aware of that and use recommendations from people you trust and then trust your gut instincts which may well be better than most given you history. Hopefully you can get where you long to be with self help. That is the path that Mandy is traveling and it is the path that I was able to make work for me. Just keep monitoring yourself and seek some high quality help if you need it. Marlene Winell specializes in the damages caused by these cult like religions and can help you assess your state of mind and find a good path forward. http://marlenewinell.net/recovery-harmful-religion. Pease keep us posted regarding your journey and recovery.
  24. 1 point
    Isn't this question more like what would it take for me to believe again? In that case I don't really think there's anything. I've sort of crossed bible god off the list of plausible gods. I've actually gotten to the point where I don't even really know what a god really is or how I might actually identify one. Just because something says it's a god and does impressive (ie. miraculous) things does that really mean anything? What I mean is does that mean I should adore this thing? Worship it? Does that mean it's a god? Does that mean it somehow imparts a spirit in me and that there's an afterlife? Does that mean this thing can help me when it comes to this afterlife or does it only have power in the here and now? I really have no answers to these questions (and more) and it would take quite a bit for me to actually accept that some creature is a god in all these respects. mwc