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  1. In this corner, weighing in as an agnostic atheist, with several title debates under his belt, the Panther from South Florida.... @Joshpantera And in this corner, coming on strong as a longtime believer in something even he doesn't fully understand, from somewhere in "Don't Mess With Texas ".... @Edgarcito LET'S GET READY TO RUMBLE!!!!! The rules are simple: each of you must state your case for superior spirituality based on what you actually believe. Last man standing will be proclaimed the undefeated spritual champ (of this match, anyway). The rest of yo
    3 points
  2. Did it never occur to you to ask, as Mrjukes21: "Hey guys, I'm really struggling here; can y'all help me out?" Because that is exactly what we are here for. Not only would that have been a simpler solution; it would also not have been a betrayal of the community's trust. Next time, dude, just ask.
    3 points
  3. Yes, and when this was going on we did understand to some degree what was happening with you. And we also understand to some degree what similar episodes are happening right now to @JamesL they are different, but very similar. He joined under one name as a deconvert asking for help and then came back as JamesL. Possibly manic as well. This sort of thing happens. And can be part of someone's deconversion process. Note that as yet we have not banned JamesL. Instead we have kept the 'heat of debate' on him as he's going through whatever it is that he's currently going through.
    3 points
  4. I came here with an earlier account as a Christian. I read articles on the ex Christian website and later joined the forum. I had a different screen name, my own name, but paranoia caused me to ask florduh to delete the account for me. In retrospect it was irrational paranoia. I didn't know I could have changed my name without creating a new account. I went in and out of hypomania, mania, and depression. My medication was inadequate. I drove everybody crazy. I had a fear of hell and the Christian god. I started reading more about the inadeqacy of the bible. I read a lot of li
    2 points
  5. Haven't been on these forums in awhile, thought I'd login just for the hell of it. Glad to see the site is still around and acting as a resource for those in need. Also, congratulations everyone in the US we avoided a complete fascist theocratic take over of the Republican party and we're poised to make it through this pandemic, it's been a fucking crazy past few years. Cheers to everyone here at the Ex-C forums, stay strong and never stop questioning!
    2 points
  6. So no, then. I am genuinely curious why some people think life is a journey, that it has a destination, that you're supposed to be "better" each step of the way. Why do some assume we all have "lessons" to learn and should "advance" spiritually through certain exercises and disciplines. Why do those who think we are so much in need of fixing think we can fix ourselves with yoga, meditation or something? Again, where is the evidence that we are on a journey, and one with a purpose?
    2 points
  7. It’s not what Mark said, it’s Walter intentionally mining old conversations for ill intentions... Now, back to the broadcast previously in progress...
    2 points
  8. · To comment on this point from the debate thread, my view is that spirituality is about real connection, whether between people, or between people and a noumenal reality, that is with the world as it actually is rather than just as it appears. · The problem with the literalistic thinking of mainstream Christianity, that tends to make it distinctly unspiritual in any genuine way, is that it interposes a dogmatic belief structure between us and the noumenal, and thereby constructs an idol in place of reality. · There certainly is some genuine spirituality in conv
    2 points
  9. ED, "..becoming heartwood via the intercessor part of the tree supporting the new growth....believers becoming the Cross, the Staff, the Tree itself." This reflects the limitations of christian spirituality that Josh is speaking of. Biblically the only way to become the heartwood or advance in christ is to Deny ones very nature. You have to deny what makes a person unique. What makes us..... us. How can one truly be spiritual and one with everything if they feel they need to become someone else. (IE Christ) How can one become enlightened without realizing that you are you and
    2 points
  10. Ed: Christianity specifically provides a standard and mechanism to know the greater, "God", through the human condition, through Christ. Josh: (paraphrased) We ARE the greater God. We are the Christ. .... Eastern philosophy provides a standard mechanism as well, not just to chase after or worship God as a being separate from yourself but to realize yourself AS God, AS the multiverse, AS the All That Is. Buddhism employs koans and zazen to leap past illusion. Advaita Vedanta uses self inquiry as a mechanism to know thyself...or rather dispel the illusion of t
    2 points
  11. Endgarcito3 does not know what his own stance on spirituality is. He will not make an argument for christian spirituality because he doesn't really subscribe to it. He simply finds some small comfort in his own interpretation of certain christian doctrines. He will never actually take a firm stance on anything; he never has, and seemingly never will, because his own beliefs are predicated on word salads and hickledy-pickledy acceptance of selected scriptures. In this current shadow-boxing match, he will deliberately misunderstand, obfuscate, bluster, demand Josh make, remake, a
    2 points
  12. Josh: there is an evident distinction drawn between an historical-factual reading of religious literature versus what is considerably "spiritual." Spirituality is living, breathing, individual, creative ... not following the rules of some book and being afraid of the sky tyrant. One size of spirituality does not fit all.
    2 points
  13. I do intend to set a standard. Human spirituality is that standard. Meaning the collective whole of human spiritual thinking and various levels of enlightenment have to all be factored in. How christianity fares against a comparative religious outlook. Because the point here is that christianity can be demonstrably inferior from a human spiritual perspective. This has to be a comparative world mythology and religion debate to make any sense. And also, End is subject to an evaluation of spiritual standard OF christianity. He is substandard in demonstrable ways as a chr
    2 points
  14. You made a mistake by adopting a second persona and coming in hostile toward the people who wanted to help you. But I think we as a group are willing to let bygones be bygones. Because we understand the confusion and turmoil experienced by people who are starting to deconvert. We were there once, some just recently. Not everybody who starts to deconvert is able to get through the process. Some go back to Christianity, whether happily or unhappily, and some get stuck in a rather miserable in-between state. Those of us you see here are the ones who made it through the process to become “Fu
    2 points
  15. The debate hasn't even started. And it ends with you completely losing your end of it. God has to be the whole, you struggle with this. But sort of understand the concept more than a lot of christians. An omnipresent god can not be anything short of everything in existence or else you lose omnipresence. Because you struggle with this spiritual insight, known in many cultures as the mystical realization, you will always remain at least one rung below anyone else in this world on the human spirituality latter who does understand the mystical realization. So
    2 points
  16. My conclusion is that Christianity is fake based on how this world works and all the flaws I see with Christianity. But I'm still having a lot of recurring doubts. I'm just trying to look for really good refutations against Christianity and I figured I can do that by using this account and disguising as a Christian. I'm sorry I offended everyone. This was the only way I can think of.
    2 points
  17. Look guys i have a confession to make. Do you guys remember MrJukes21? That's me. I made this account because I wanted to be assured that a voice in the desert and habermas were false. I wanted to be assured so bad that what they were saying wasn't true so I decided to make this account in order to see what was wrong in their arguments for god so that i can be reassured that they're wrong. Before I deconverted I watched a lot of videos by those two and their videos got stuck in my head. When I found this website I noticed that when I went to the lion's den all Christian arguments no matter ho
    2 points
  18. I would like to draw everyone's attention to this Wiki page. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mens_rea This page deals with the mental element of a person's intention to commit a crime; or knowledge that one's action or lack of action would cause a crime to be committed. Please look closely at the Latin phrase... actus reus non facit reum nisi mens sit rea. This is translated as, 'the act is not culpable if the mind is not guilty'. Since I have already established that... (A) Adam and Eve were under god's law not to eat fro
    2 points
  19. Help theologians? Are you serious? They woukd probably not even read your book, let alone use it to reconfigure their beliefs. Do you imagine pope francis going...aaa yes...the gospels is just about stars in the sky? :))
    2 points
  20. I've only had brief episodes with anxiety, but the feeling of my mind not being right was genuinely scary. I'm so glad that you found good help and were able to navigate your way back out. Welcome back!
    2 points
  21. I just posted this article "Sexual Anguish of Atlanta Suspect is Familiar Thorn for Evangelicals" to FB along with my views on Christian purity. May have opened the barn door this time, time will tell. https://news.yahoo.com/sexual-anguish-atlanta-suspect-familiar-140929602.html
    2 points
  22. God equates to the greater thing all around us in my view. The greater existence of everything. "I am that I am." The name of god tends to outline this. So I don't look at it as a literal being of some type, like a person out there who is bigger than we are. Being connected some person outside of space and time which looks like us but is simply bigger or super in comparison, really doesn't make sense. If we get away from the personal god idea and go back towards the impersonal concept of infinite and eternal existence as a beginning-less, endless, and timeless realm, w
    1 point
  23. I think she may have fallen off the edge of the earth.
    1 point
  24. On Aug 4 2019, when the Christian calling herself Georgia was asked to provide evidence that she had obtained a university education, this is how she replied. https://www.ex-christian.net/topic/82423-my-pastor-denied-my-gender/page/5/ Your extremely rude. I asked kindly not to be called names, such a nutter, crack pot, someone also said I'm delusional with this topic and my disorder will effect other topics too. Attack my views but not me personally, that's absolutely not fair. Go away- for what ? Is this not a place to debate? Don't patronise me because I
    1 point
  25. So there we have it. Edgarcito and v_a_s_t promoting the cult of the self. How does it go? Ah yes, like this. I am the one having the spiritual experience, so I interpret as I want to because it's MY experience and nobody else's. I am the one reading MY holy book, so I interpret it as I want to because I'M the one reading it and that's MY experience and nobody else's. I, me, myself. How strange for the Christian Edgarcito that the bible he claims to be god's perfect and inerrant word tells
    1 point
  26. Edgarcito calls himself a Christian, v_a_s_t. So, who is it who calls the shots in Christianity? Would that be Christ or would that be Edgarcito? Or do spiritual experiences just 'happen' in Christianity and aren't dictated by god? Not much of a creator, king, lord and ruler of everything if stuff just 'happens' is he?
    1 point
  27. Reminds me of my all time favorite "testimony" on one Wednesday night at church. Young woman stood up to tell us how she went to her freezer to get the ice cube tray and her finger became stuck to it. She prayed fervently, and Praise The Lord, Jesus unstuck her finger from the ice tray! God is good!!! So no, not all "spiritual" experiences are valid just because someone says so. Sometimes they're just stupid. Besides, Christianity and Spirituality are natural enemies.
    1 point
  28. I don't think behaviors taken due to a mental illness (e.g. manic episode, clinical depression) qualify as a legitimate conversion or deconversion. It is a temporary manifestation of a current mental state rather than a reasoned or even an emotional decision.
    1 point
  29. This is because what you think of as spiritual doesn't even really classify as spiritual to the people in the world on the right side of the scale I've mapped out. Literalistic thinkers ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Symbolic thinkers Mainstream christianity-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------eastern and western mysticism So this is the very heart of the issue and debate. These people who don't read their script
    1 point
  30. Christianity works for some people. Some people seem to need to be part of the herd, to fit in with that group and follow the holy book of instruction. If it makes them happy, that's fine. Maybe some religious person will try to legislate their religion into law, but I'll vote against it. What does bother me is fanatical Christian parents causing misery for their children. Not much I can do about that. But knowledge is out there and easily obtained so the following generations will be less fooled by religion.
    1 point
  31. Thank you Josh. James 3 : 9 & 10. 9 With the tongue we praise our Lord and Father, and with it we curse human beings, who have been made in God’s likeness. 10 Out of the same mouth come praise and cursing. My brothers and sisters, this should not be. James 3 : 5 & 6. 5 Likewise, the tongue is a small part of the body, but it makes great boasts. Consider what a great forest is set on fire by a small spark. 6 The tongue also is a fire, a world of evil among the parts of the body. It corrupts the whole body, sets the whole cou
    1 point
  32. Per the Lunar Calendar, Mr. Pantera was born in the Year of the Dragon. I'm an Ox; Mrs. Prof is a Chicken.
    1 point
  33. I think if a person feels comfortable that a certain religion or form of spirituality works for them then they should strive to practice that religion or form of spirituality to the best of their ability, without interference from me; and extend to me the same courtesy of non-interference. If, after sincere questioning, you decide to return to christianity, you will still be welcome in this community, just as you would be welcome if you decide Buddhism, Hinduism, Judaism, or the 12 Steps is right for you. Each to their own; live and let live.
    1 point
  34. lol two of them! i hadn't seen yours, but now i do. 1976?
    1 point
  35. This forward sets the stage for the scholarship that is to come from Joseph Campbell. Right away, there is an evident distinction drawn between an historical-factual reading of religious literature versus what is considerably "spiritual." Or going beyond the mundane experiences of time and space. And opening up to the transcendent factor. As in, reading through religious literature and agreeing or believing that it's historical and factually true never begins to even touch on anything "spiritual." and "transcendent" as it were. There's nothing "spiritual" about reading a history b
    1 point
  36. I can also throw a few links at ya if you would like to read about what they found concerning the exodus, and the books of Moses. There was one Jewish apologist that wrote an article trying to refute that there was no exodus by saying it was a smaller scale migration. Which I guess is fine for some people. But to people who had faith in what the Bible said it is a big issue. A small group of people as apposed to millions is a Big contradiction. There are also some good articles out there concerning the true ruling power at the time of the supposed exodus to Isreal. Egypt was in pow
    1 point
  37. Bad MrJukes! Rips off my mask. I'm really Gary Habermas!
    1 point
  38. Following real life laws in our society is generally good for our well-being. The Adam and Eve myth is a poorly designed story that Christians have to swallow in order to continue to be Christians. Now if I wanted to believe in Jesus I just would and would also ignore the bible. I wouldnt come to the Lions Den to debate obvious biblical nonsense. The Flying Spaghetti Monster is all I need. The Flying Spaghetti Monster is all I need.
    1 point
  39. Why would god want, or need, them to be holy? He didn't create them holy; and eating the fruit did not make them holy (or unholy, for that matter, since they weren't holy to begin with). So what was god's purpose in making unholy people when he wanted holy ones? And how did entrapping them into "sin" serve his purpose?
    1 point
  40. Your revelation is that god's intent was law leading to unthinking robotic obedience. How can law lead to holiness if its meaning isn't understood by the one it applies to? You can't achieve holiness without understanding how to get there.
    1 point
  41. I'm still trying to figure out what men's urea has to do with anything... Is it because they pissed out the parts of the apple they couldn't metabolize?
    1 point
  42. Isn't it a great feeling!! And the longer you are free, the more the whole system seems absurd.
    1 point
  43. Checks my watch. The library is closed...just about time for James to post something.
    1 point
  44. Hey @SerenelyBlue I’m so glad to hear you’re doing so well now! Thank you for letting us know. Sometimes we lose touch with people and wonder how they’re doing. I recall when you were much less clear-minded and more anxious. People here might not have been sure how to help you but we were sure you were not trolling us or trying to be that way. So good you got the help you needed. I trust this community helped you look at Christianity objectively once you were in a position to do that.
    1 point
  45. I think the problem with Christianity is that too many Christians are turning to the Occult and other religions and therefore are dabbling in all of them, including Satanism. So I guess it is to say, I was Christened at birth, I just left the church for other reasons, mainly indoctrination of facebook ...instead of bringing people to Christ, they are leading people to an organization of greedy billionaires who sold them out long before they even got there.
    1 point
  46. I have it on good authority that Heaven is a real, physical place. Several devout believers and ministers told me so.
    1 point
  47. P = Passing the buck R = Real people talking to imaginary beings. A = Asking for advantages over fellow human beings Y = Yearning for fantasies to be fulfilled E = Expecting God to violate the freewill of others R = Remaining inactive while believing you're actually doing something positive
    1 point


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