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  1. Hello, dearest Ex-C friends! I logged in the other day and responded to a few posts, I was so happy to see some familiar names and received a few messages of greeting from some old friends. For those of you I have not met or interacted with, this post will hopefully bring you some hope, peace, and encouragement. Here is my original post, so long ago. I have had years now to really sift through my upbringing and some of the lasting scars I will carry with me because of the brand of Christianity that was imposed on me. Everyone here was right, it gets so much better! If you are where I was so l
    8 points
  2. Hi all. I don't think I've told my story in full here, so now is as good a time as any. It's fairly long, but thank you for reading in advance and I hope it helps somebody. My Story - From a pastors kid to an atheist. Religious History I was a Christian from birth for 32 1/2 years of my life. When I was born my parents were in a non denominational church which followed the teachings of a Pentecostal (Ex Baptist) divine healing preacher. Several years after I was born my parents left the church over doctrinal disagreements and started house meetings. This continued for some yea
    7 points
  3. Seems everything in the Bible is the literal truth handed to us from the mouth of God, unless it's merely symbolic. Only the true elect among God's people have the ability to discern the difference. And it seems that none of them agree on which is which.
    5 points
  4. I'd have given anything to be like BAA when I first joined this website. He was so calculating, level-headed, and stoic; while I was (and still am) aggressive, abrasive, and brash. I talked about it with BAA once and he told me, "we all play our own roles." That has stuck with me throughout the years; and I've come to understand that the rapid-fire common sense approach I take is just a vital as the solid point-rebuttal approach of WalterP. All of the ground has to get covered. Walt can cover a veritable swath in a single post, while I run mini-sprints through a ha
    5 points
  5. The thing is, questioning atheism and the rest is largely due to your current lack of depth of understanding all the issues involved. You're new at it. You can't possibly have the experience to navigate all of the contributing factors involved. So it seems wide open. That can all be narrowed down over time to where it's much less mysterious and much more cut and dry, though. I can try and fast forward you through some of it. Many of us have contemplated god to the point where it finally boils down to some very glaring conclusions. That end with us coming to peace with it all.
    4 points
  6. Mrjukes21, Oh my goodness gracious, I can so relate with you (you can find posts on here where I battled with this same fear several years ago) and I PROMISE YOU this gets better. You just have to stick it out, you've been indoctrinated, other humans have told you things that they have NO WAY of verifying until they die and find out for themselves. Remember that. Anyone who claims to have an answer to this is full of shit. 1) I comforted myself a lot, in the beginning of my deconversion, by reminding myself that "If I really was saved, I couldn't go to hell by seeking t
    4 points
  7. Reading yet another argument between atheists and Christians about whether morality is subjective or objective and the Christian fell back on the old "if you only had subjective morals then you would rape and kill as you please. You could not say anything is wrong, because everything would be an opinion. Hitler wasn't wrong, he just had different subjective morals". The thing that I keep thinking, but never seeing raised is that there are different types of moral codes. There are personal moral codes, that is what we subjectively think is right and wrong, and there is societies moral c
    3 points
  8. Here's a new news site for you: Happy News mwc
    3 points
  9. The main difference, I think, is motivation. If someone makes bald claims and unfounded assertions, I'll point that out to them. If someone is using logical fallacies, I'll identify them. Certainly if someone is condemning, judging, or otherwise being rude, I'll throw back with an equal measure of aggression. But my motivation for doing so is not because I want, or need, to convince that person; I am simply observing the rules of engagement. I have neither the need nor the desire to convince anyone of anything. Even if I did, it is not my place to do so. We all walk our own
    3 points
  10. I have already received the Mark of the Breast.
    3 points
  11. While it is a good idea, it looks like moving toward evidence based christianity could be a very long drawn out process. Reading about how mass movements get started, I don't see the Factors needed to attract the masses. If anything, it looks like religion overall is slowly dying on the vine. How long do you think the trend will continue?
    3 points
  12. Sounds like you are really angry and depressed. Tell us some more about where you are in the process. Have you stopped going to church? Does you husband know how you feel? Do you see ANY avenue for making your situation temporarily more tolerable if you can't make any major changes right now? If there are any dangers of anyone getting hurt, please contact the proper authorities, a women's shelter, mental health center, etc. And the organization "Recovering from Religion" has counselors you can talk with. But if you just need to talk about the religious issues, this is a great
    3 points
  13. Recently I've come across a lot of examples of Christianity lacking definitions. Most recently was the discussion about being made in the "image of god" but no one really knows what that means. Is image a physical shape? A mental ability? Something about our personality? What do we have that animals do not? Similar to what exactly a soul is. Do only humans have one? What does one do? Why do our memories and personalities change if we are recorded on an immaterial soul? If they aren't recorded on the soul, then what exactly would transfer away at death? Then I came acr
    3 points
  14. I haven’t seen any of them. Remember, YouTube is VERY good at tracking your viewing and recommending similar material. If you watch a couple of videos about Zoroastrianism then YT will start recommending videos on Zoroastrianiam. You’ll start to think, wow there’s a big revival in Zoroastrianism going on - this is big! Uh, no. You’ve evidently watched several of these and now YT is summoning similar stuff up and bringing it to your attention.
    3 points
  15. I've only one good friend I feel comfortable talking with about my grievances as an atheist, but--even though they'd say they don't mind--I'd feel like a pest if I ranted to them every time I felt the need. I'm in a situation where I still have to rent a room in the same house as my devoutly religious parents. It's frustrating as a grown-ass adult, but what are you gonna do. I'm out as an atheist, so we generally try to keep our beliefs to ourselves. My dad and I, however, get together every week to eat lunch and discuss our differing beliefs. In the midst of the election, it's become incre
    2 points
  16. Perhaps it is time to stop trying to help them see what you see. The conflict makes it in your face all the time. Their imaginary view of reality is something they share with others and they feel like they belong to something bigger and more important than themselves, perhaps even with inside information on the super secret invisible warfare of angels and demons blah blah blah. Scams have been successful for centuries because people want so much to believe that they have found the answer to paradise, riches, fame, sex, etc. Once people have taken the bait and are on the hook, they are the forc
    2 points
  17. Wow Jess, that was terrific! What a good testimony of a life freed from religious shackles and refusing to be shackled by any replacement for religion. Glad to hear about Mr ag_NO_stic and his own journey: it’s great that you’re in the same place regarding religion as you prepare to bring some wee little ag_NO_stics into the world.
    2 points
  18. Seriously, Robert, I see the potential of you working this out into more and more of a cohesive position. It's been coming along over the years piece by piece. But the point of Davis's book about these dogmatic theological beliefs taking time to develop, is a factual statement. Centuries, in some of the cases. And if the disciples were historical (I'm doubful), they would not have known these later theological developments. People don't usually think about it that way - the way in which it would have been early on. This is a very interesting edition to what you've pioneered over th
    2 points
  19. Wow, wonderful summary! Thanks for giving us your path out, and the difficulties it presented.
    2 points
  20. Hey LF, thanks for taking the time to put this together. For many of us, our original introductions or “ex-timonies” were made at a time when we were still new and often insecure and scared in our non-belief. So it’s good to look back from the vantage point of a few years later. I think this can be reassuring to people in those early stages of deconversion. Our good friend @ag_NO_stic just posted a really good update on her ex-Christian life.
    2 points
  21. In Brothermario's defense, I'm the one who affixed the Braggadocio moniker to his account.
    2 points
  22. Tons of truth and wisdom in that one post. I wish I’d written it!
    2 points
  23. I saw a Christian online asked "If God gives objective morals, what are they? How do you know your choices are matching his objective standard?" the Christian replied "The holy spirit guides me, so I listen to the voice inside, the god given moral compass and know that I'm following god". So the objective moral standard is his personal instinct, but he believes his instincts are better than the majority of the world because god. So no one can know the moral code, you just rely on magic to give you the right answer. How do so many Christians get it wrong (see the brutal history of the c
    2 points
  24. When you figure something out - that Christianity is untrue, for example - it's natural to want to share it. It’s just that very few Christians are open to questioning their beliefs.. So if a Christian in the Lions Den is taking about Satan being real, I will jump in and point out that no, you can look in the Old Testament and see how the concept of Satan was developed gradually over the course of centuries and so there’s no good reason to believe Satan actually exists, I’m really doing it for the benefit of some deconverting person who didn’t know that and who may even be tormented by fears
    2 points
  25. Everything is impermanent, including your current situation.
    2 points
  26. Roman 16-20 "The God of peace will soon crush Satan" Rev 1:1 " the things which must soon take place..." Rev 1:3 "...for the time is near" Rev 22:7 & 12 & 20 "I am coming soon" Rev 22:10 "Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this book, for the time is near." Mark 13:27 "this generation will not pass away until all these things take place" So many claims that the end times are "soon", and every generation of Christians has believed they are living in them. Now two thousand years later the same claims are still being made. If you say to a Chr
    2 points
  27. This reminds me of the John Frum Cargo Cult of Vanuatu. I forget the book, but in it someone asked the cultists why they still believed John Frum would arrive after so many decades and they responded if the Christians can wait 2,000 years then they can wait at least 50 years. When you're finally on the outside looking in it's almost comical.
    2 points
  28. I did have a Christian lady say "The end times are near, Matthew talks about 'Wars and rumours of wars' and we have that now. He also mentions earthquakes and famine, which we see in the news. Its all as the bible claimed!" Talk about setting a low bar. Has there ever been a point in human history that was completely peaceful? Where there was no famine? Hell, there are something like 20,000 earthquakes every year, so that one is just a given.
    2 points
  29. I had to sit through an hour long talk about how current events are signs of the end. A customer down here wanted to vent the other day about it. The way I handled it was to first point out my history as an SDA. That my family is related to William Miller of the historical, "Great Disappointment of 1844." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Disappointment I told him to google it. And then I added that I knew a Herald Camping devotee who was absolutely certain that the rapture would take place in 2011, or whenever it was. He thought that he had loopholes in the bible tha
    2 points
  30. It will drive you mad hearing all the different interpretations. David Koresh thought he had it figured out, and Harold Camping, and on and on and on it goes.
    2 points
  31. I love the 2 Peter reference. It actually seems that the author goofed in revealing they were not actually Peter! "For ever since the fathers fell asleep...," would Peter not be one of the fathers of Christianity, therefore, 2 Peter is likely a forgery. Even conservative Christian scholars have said that if there is a forgery in the Bible, it is 2 Peter, but they will not go so far as to say that is actually is. Do not forget 1 John 2:18: "Children, it is the last hour; and just as you heard that antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have appeared; from this we know that
    2 points
  32. I understand your frustration, I too made decisions in my life that were centered around Christianity and what I thought Jesus would want me to do. You are in good company here. I say that for the fact that you should not be too hard on yourself. You made decisions at the time based on the information you had. It sucks, I know, but there is no going back in time and fixing it. I understand the desire, but unless we invent time travel, there is no undoing it. You are in a situation now and lingering on what could have been is honestly just going to eat you alive. One warning of advi
    2 points
  33. I was just about to reply to your tithing joke and you edited it before I could... was just gonna say that as a Catholic we don't tithe, we don't just give money for the hell of it, we give out of pure guilt
    2 points
  34. May as well admit, I am left-handed. And I'm an evil goofy misfit reprobate loser asshole with a bad attitude. And my mother doesn't like me. This being early Sunday morning though, I've decided to carry on anyway. Got stuff to do.
    2 points
  35. What I mean is that they think that they "know" god exists. You'll notice that the chart begins with, "Huh." Total ignorance. That applies to all of us who were born into christianity, like myself and others. We didn't know anything about it. Ground level ignorance. But as we matured as children we were lead towards the second point in the chart, which is the spike in question. We attended church and church school, some of us. We were told that our denominations were superior that of others. We believed what they were telling us. I was always told that we as adventist's had superio
    2 points
  36. My sister is a left-handed ginger. I assure you that her evil knows no bounds. mwc
    2 points
  37. I’ve been watching “The Rise of Rome” on The Great Courses and just learned that Roman infants and toddlers had their left hands sewn into their garments to force them to use their right hands, because being left-handed was so undesirable. I can’t believe you just handed me an opportunity to use this piece of trivia.
    2 points
  38. I've missed y'all too, didn't even realize how much until I logged in and saw some familiar names!! <3 Been a CRAZY ASS year, like it has been for everyone I'm sure, I have been mostly off social media which has done wonders for my mental health. 10/10 would recommend, lol! I'm doing really well actually, thinking of doing a post somewhere now that I'm 4-5 years in to the deconversion and in such a good place. How are you ll?! If I need to DM anyone instead of derailing OP, I can. :)
    2 points
  39. It’s very likely futile in terms of making any impression on our apologist visitors. But I try to tailor my comments to a potential audience of tentative ex-Christians or even wavering Christians who could be helped by my counter-apologetics. That’s really the only good reason to allow apologists a platform: to take advantage of them for our own ends, to be honest.
    2 points
  40. I’m inclined to agree with @LogicalFallacyin questioning whether the D-K effect really applies to apologists. It’s not so much that apologists don’t know enough but rather that they are typically starting with a belief that Christianity or theism is true and then coming up with supporting arguments. They very likely did not come to believe because of apologetic arguments but rather because of youthful indoctrination or a strong desire to believe. It’s been said that apologetics are not used to make believers out of non-believers but rather to keep existing believers from leaving the faith.
    2 points
  41. I can imagine this chart against something like many visiting apologists around here. In that case it seems to be everyone's goal to try and lead them forward towards a fuller realization and broader understanding of the bible, god, or whatever the case may be. With Brothermario, he's literally at the "I know everything" mark of this D-K effect sort of heroes journey. Members start interacting from a broader understanding themselves, coaxing BM towards the, "there's more to this than I thought" mark. He never made it that far apparently. Hypothetically,
    2 points
  42. I would say, "I've seen too many of them.." Of course, I could be totally wrong about what I would imagine a God to be. He/she could just have an evil nature and a really warped sense of humor.
    2 points
  43. Very insightful, for sure. I can relate to the order in which you began to see problems. First noticing the inconsistent and cherry picked beliefs of people at my church. And delving into the contradictions of the bible itself later on. And of course it all made sweeping sense across the board when I learned about textual criticism and how the personal opinions of the biblical writers diverge and illustrate how these contradictions came to be.
    2 points
  44. Well, look who came back to see us! Nice to see you @ag_NO_stic! How’ve you been? Missed ya!
    2 points
  45. Crove- This journey can be very painful, depending on how invested you were in your faith. My sympathies. If you're interested, you can search through older posts I've written, when I was a new ex-christian on this site, where I explore this pain more in depth. You can see my first posts where I'm angry or freaking out and you can read this one, most current, where I am literally at peace, SO grateful for the experience and people on this site. I can encourage you that (now that I'm on the other side of it) my life is infinitely better and more rewarding because I was willing to face it. I am
    2 points
  46. "How much of what I believe do I believe because I really believe it; and how much of what I believe do I believe because somebody else told me to believe it?" That is how the question presented itself to me.
    2 points
  47. I am ALWAYS down for these types of conversations, I don't always have the most popular opinion, but I don't care about that shit anymore really lol. It's like agree to disagree and give me something to think about. You should start it, I'd engage!
    1 point


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