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laura

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About laura

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    I am a recently deconverted Christian needing any help and support you can give.

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  • Still have any Gods? If so, who or what?
    no
  1. Except for psychopaths of course, who have no conscience. Thank you for your post, Dirac. I'm glad to see that we both share the same understanding. I am amazed to see how many responses my little ol' post recieved in such a short time. It just shows me that I am not alone here, and many people really do care and think about these isssues. Although I feel alone, I cannot logically say that I am. I did have one slight question about your above quote. If there is no right, wrong, or ethics (the same thing), then doesn't that mean that the conscience is driving force of all these ideas of morality and ethics? Afterall, If a person feels it is wrong in their conscience, then they deem it to be wrong (thus comes religion) while this may be different for different people, as I have already talked about. And on comes the conclusion that there is no right/wrong/ethics. This makes me think of another question for everyone to ponder: I there really then anything for anyone (even the crazzies) to feel guilty about? Isn't there some kind of logical contradiction here? -something to think about. Someone mentioned that I am still looking through Christian goggles, and I suspect that may be partially true, but I wonder when it is that I am doing it. I often get confused as to whether my thoughts are mine own, or someone (anyone) elses. I find myself mentally responding to thoughts and people that really aren't there, trying to constantly defend myself. I also find myself feeling constantly guilty about... anything, really...and it leads me to wonder what there really is to feal guilty about since there is no right or wrong. Maybe that's the goggles, or maybe those are my genuine thoughts. I think that I am what others have produced me to be, and I don't like that. I want to be what I would have been without the Christian brainwashing, if that's even possible now. It's all kinda crazy; does anyone else have these experiences?. I know that people change their viewpoint on different things from time to time, as they have the "right" to. I guess I am just struggling with who I am, and predominantly with figurring out who I am, and whether to accept or change it if even possible. Anyway, I'm blabbering again. I'll stop now
  2. Who is Francois, and why should he not read this post. I am ignorant, I am afraid.
  3. Correct. Inconsistencies are fine. I believe that smoking pot is perfectly okay, therefore I smoke pot. The government does not believe that smoking pot is okay, therefore I must hide it from them. Actually, no, you don't. You make the decision whether or not to follow the rules. Regardless of your beliefs, unless you have the personal power to stand against the government (which you don't), then you must abide by those laws... or just not get caught. I could murder another human being if given the reason to, however, since the right to take another human life legally has been reserved by the government, if I did so, I would go to jail. The fear of jail is enough to tip the scales towards society's view of murder rather than my own when given the choice to either murder my boss (a frequent fantasy of mine) or not. In the above example of smoking pot, I've made the decision to break the law because the fear of a $100 fine isn't enough to make my decision for me. I have a comfort-based view of "morality." That which makes me comfortable is good, that which makes me uncomfortable is bad. Going to jail = Bad Not going to jail = Good Hence why I follow some laws and not others. In the end though, you'll be the one who has to decide what your new, religion-free morality encompasses, no one can make that decision for you. One of the perks of being a Freethinker is thinking for yourself. I forgot to ask! *whispering * where and how (and how much$) would a person, oh, let's just say, i mean just out of curiousity.....get some pot?? Just out of curiousity...
  4. (Damn it! I did it again, and I was almost finished) Anyway, I considered "natures's rules" but then had to ask myself: "We are much more intelligent and socially somplex. How do we mix our animal nautres with our evolved animal natures?" And still it is hard to accept that murder, the most etreme therefore effective example, is okay. Maybe I simply fell like that because it is how I have been taught to feel. Afterall, society looks down upon one person killing another except in war when it is to our benefit, and those individula serial killers themselves and cannibalistic tribes apparently have no code against it. So, maybe we should all do whatever is in each's best interest, like most people do anyway. So, you basically see my confusion. I feel like this is the best "answer" I can or ever will come up with. Yet my heart is still not (and may never be) completely satisfied because I feel like there should be something more or better or something-that there must be an answer. I feel the compulsion to look for more. Yet, my brain tells me that there is no answer, or rather that the only answer is that there is no real right or wrong, just human perception-even extending to the extremes of murder. It tells me that this "answer" is the best I'll get. Both tell me a lot of things. I guess all I can do is block it from my mind and do whatever is in my best interest and do what I feel like-just like the animals. Or I may decide that the whole theory needs to be reworked. Still, I want to know what you're take is. Maybe you have something to offer that I have not thought of, or maybe I have made a logical error somewhere. Just keep in mind what I have already pointed out. So, what is your take? How do you solve the mystery of morality?-Laura Correct. Inconsistencies are fine. I believe that smoking pot is perfectly okay, therefore I smoke pot. The government does not believe that smoking pot is okay, therefore I must hide it from them. Actually, no, you don't. You make the decision whether or not to follow the rules. Regardless of your beliefs, unless you have the personal power to stand against the government (which you don't), then you must abide by those laws... or just not get caught. I could murder another human being if given the reason to, however, since the right to take another human life legally has been reserved by the government, if I did so, I would go to jail. The fear of jail is enough to tip the scales towards society's view of murder rather than my own when given the choice to either murder my boss (a frequent fantasy of mine) or not. In the above example of smoking pot, I've made the decision to break the law because the fear of a $100 fine isn't enough to make my decision for me. I have a comfort-based view of "morality." That which makes me comfortable is good, that which makes me uncomfortable is bad. Going to jail = Bad Not going to jail = Good Hence why I follow some laws and not others. In the end though, you'll be the one who has to decide what your new, religion-free morality encompasses, no one can make that decision for you. One of the perks of being a Freethinker is thinking for yourself. I see your point about being confined to the governements rules, and I agree that I too would not commit a crime if the punishment made me "uncomfortable". So, along the lines of murder, I see your point that the government makes the rules. But I wonder, just because they are the government's rules, does that make them the rules (Im speaking of morality) for everyone?
  5. (I accedentally posted before I was finished. Here is the rest:) So, this led me to start thinking that there really is no right or wrong or ethics, since codes by their definition are supposed to be absolute (meaning for everyone) but obviously are not. Besides, they are basically the same thing-both are codes, one simply being tied to religion and some kind of eternall damnation for not following to the letter. So, it seems very, completely, obviously apparent to me theat these codes are merely creations of the human imagination, and since they are all different there is no right or wrong. (by the way, I was taught that if you think it's wrong, it is. Then you could say that others beliefs about what is wrong means it is wrong for them, but not for me even though they are claiming it is wrong period. But that simply does not make since. Either it is or is not right, and it still does not account for numberous interpretations of the Bible. It is still all the same thing) This led me to start thinking that we are all just animals (a thought that doesn't really bother me) and that we likely evolved from lower life forms. Now, while the theory of evolution is a bit sketch, it utilizes far more scientific means of analysis and proof than any of the religions which are typically based on faith- a notion so completely illogical and rediculous, it almost makes me sick. What 'proof' they do probid eis pften poorly researched, studies and analyzed quick fixes for validation their beliefs. Anyway, if we are evolved animals, then that means we whould act as such. That caused me to llok at their behaviors. They are basically simple: survive and procreate at all costs. Survival of the fittest can be weell seen in nature.. Animals will do whatever is in their best interst, wheter it be a fox breaking into a chicken coop to steal chickens, to two animals fighting it to the death over posessions such as territory and girls. As far as procreation, animals have sex without regard to any sort of "animal marriage" in order to preserve the species which is a key component of surviving. Some animals mate for life, while others opt for the one night stand. I've even heard of homosexual acts in nature(which according to Christians is wrong because it is "not natural"-looks like their wrong), and I even saw a kangaroo masturbate!
  6. Hi everyone, my name is Laura, and I am fairly new to this fantastic site. I had been indoctrinated into the ridiculousness of Christianity since birth and went through Christain elementry and High School being brainwashed by non-sense as I went. I eventually left probably in October or November of 05 not only because of the incongruencies of the faith but also because of a need to maintain my sanity. There is still one gaping problem: How do I deal with morality? It is now obvious to me that Chirstianity and other religious beliefs do not solve the problem This is because opinions of what iss right and wrong ie morality change from indidvidual to indidvidual, form religious sect to sect and within the individuals among them, and from religion to religion. This leaves us with a multitude of opinions varying widely, slightly and all ranges in between. There are countless numbers of interpretations of biblical and likely other religious texts, and variances on even what the correct way to interpret them is. Therefore, how is one to know what is really right and wrong? Take lying for example. Some starch fundamentalists will say that it is always wrong no matter what even though they fail to realize that in the OT bible Rahab lies to help the Isrealite spies. Could not God made another way in which lying wasn't neccessary? But others will say that she wasn't lying, she was simply "not telling the truth"-a completely different thing. Please, don't make me throw up on you-serioiusly. Some will say it's okay under certain circumstances. So maybe she was lying in the name of Jesus. Some might say that it was something she chose to do out of free will, that while wrong, just happened to help god. That still doesn't completely line up. Another example is murder. Among Christians, some will say it's always wrong, others will say it's okay among certain circumstances (ooh, or maybe it's not called murder, it's called killing-which is okay). In the Old Testament OT, ther are countless writtings of God commanding the Isrealits to kill in his name even though he commands us not to kill. Surely a god that is truely just would not disobey his own rules. I mean, come on. The rules of killing are different among other religions, notably in certain tribes where cannibalism is considered okay. Many people in society will say that murder is wrong exept in war or self defense, while others will disagree. So who is right, and is it possible to tell? Im starting to think there is no answer because we make up the rules each for ourselves, therefore there is no true right or wrong. Then there is ethics-codes of conduct not tied to religion. Problem here is these codes change amongst people too. My mother, upon my questioning her about this mystery of morality, told me that people genereally do what they each see best. This is a true statement. But this means that right and wrong is up the mind of each individual, therfore being inconsistent. Along this line of reasoning, I could murder my boss if I decided it was okay-afterall, I make the rules, right? Stille, religion is not evenconsistant on this subject and many others, so it does not provide the answer.
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