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ficino last won the day on March 1

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About ficino

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  • Birthday February 26

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    New York, NY
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    literature, philosophy
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    ancient texts

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  • Still have any Gods? If so, who or what?

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  1. Hello Confused00, and welcome to Ex-Chr. I second what others have said. It's worthwhile hearing from people who have been through some of what you have been through. I have never met anyone from Nepal, however. One of the members of this board, Bhim, is Hindu. His family is Hindu. Bhim went through some years as an evangelical Christian but then got out of it for a number of good reasons. He now expresses support for attempts in India to curtail the influence of Christian missionaries. Bhim may see your message, or you could PM him if your membership here allows you that capability. As for being LGBT+, I'm gay and married to another man. For years as I Christian, I did what I now would call acquiescing in my own oppression, but back then I thought I was carrying the cross to look forward to a whole life of being single. Many things like unanswered prayer and the obvious injustice of Yahweh led me out of the cult. Hang around here and you will get more perspectives!
  2. I can think of at least two strategies that some Christians use to wave away Bible contradictions, falsehoods, absurdities, etc. 1. they'll say that the Bible is not God's revelation but is the record of the believing community's encounter with God. They may add that the Bible is not the Word of God but Jesus is the Word of God, and the Bible witnesses to Jesus. I think some liberal Protestants take this "it's a record of revelation, it's not revelation per se" approach. 2. sophisticated members of denominations that claim the Bible is inerrant (e.g. sophisticated Catholics) may say that the Bible is inerrant in all it asserts for our salvation, or that its assertions are for the sake of our salvation. So they try to bracket off some stuff that they find embarrassing and say either that it's not what the Bible is really asserting (e.g. the Flood story asserts truths about God's saving His people but is not asserting history), or that stuff in the passage that ISN'T for the sake of our salvation is not the inerrant assertion (e.g. stuff that is scientifically wrong). I still see no reason to believe what the Bible says about doctrine and precepts, which can't be tested, when what can be tested in the bible so often fails the test: e.g. consistency between authors, historical and scientific matters, etc.
  3. Wow, Jenni, you have been through a lot. A lot that you did not deserve to go through. I am glad you are in such a better position now. You have a lot to discover ahead of you! FWIW a thought about the anger: Aristotle says it's a response to a perceived injustice. There is a lot of injustice in the whole bundle of Christianity as a system. I think it's legitimate for you to be angry against that and the people who profit from its injustices. That is enough to explain your anger, so I don't think you have to feel that you are "mad at God," the way Christians like to accuse ex-Christians of being. And I think you can say something like, "I defend A's right to belief and practice her/his faith, but I deny that Christians have the right to control everyone else, and their attempts to control the rest of us make me angry - and my anger gives me energy to resist!" Or something like that. Hope to hear more from you, F
  4. Yes, I went through these stages, too. Toward the end of my time as a Christian, I had stopped praying "for" things. I dimly recall that the last thing I prayed for was for a 28 yr old guy in our Christian group to be healed of cancer. EVERYONE was praying, even little children. Rod died anyway. So eventually I got to the point where I would either just pray praise-type prayers or else "thy will be done" prayers. That faded away. Later I read on some online boards like this that a lot of people "learn" as mature Christians that prayer basically isn't answered. A good number of them wind up concluding there is no warrant for believing in the religion.
  5. TruthSeeker0, this is a good article. To me it's ironic that it is written by an evangelical and that the author approvingly cites people like Al Mohler and Ed Stetzer. Mohler opposed Trump in 2016 but quickly backpedaled when Trump became the darling of Mohler's own tribe. Anyway, I agree with the author, and also agree on how there are many elements of especially evangelical Christianity that promote openness to conspiracy theories. I see it in my own relatives.
  6. Hello Georgia, people like me who used to be Christians but are so no longer are often asked whether we left because of bad experiences in church, bad treatment from Christians, disappointment with failures of Christians, and so on. My experiences with people in the churches I attended were pretty much positive. It was the system of teachings and precepts itself that I came to see is not workable.
  7. Good point. I was thinking of how Thomistic types will usually say that faith is an act of the intellect, affirming that certain propositions are true, and then they'll talk about actions as coming from the will, choosing and doing certain things that the intellect has perceived (or falsely believes) are good. But they muddle things when they start talking about "the Mystery of evil" and such.
  8. Great analogy! ETA: though I guess a Christian apologist could say it doesn't hold because mysteries are not about precepts, telling you what or what not to do, but about doctrines.
  9. Hi IAM4TRUTH, a further thought: you might get something out of checking out Sheila C's blog, A Gift Universe, and even commenting and/or sending her a message: http://agiftuniverse.blogspot.com/ Sheila was raised and educated in a very traditional/conservative Catholic background, including college. She now has been blogging mostly about parenting and teaching her kids at home under COVID-19, but she used to post a lot about her reasons for leaving that Catholic system and what she has derived from leaving it. She has a lot of good perspectives, though I think she's younger than you - her kids are younger than yours. Best, F
  10. Yes, boy do I relate! I never heard of The Alpha Course, but I taught CCD, often served at mass, was often called on to be a lector... I was starting the process of joining a religious order. Good thing I didn't, lol. But like you, there was much I loved even just in the ritual. I loved the way time is structured - the liturgical year, the Hours of the Divine Office, the sense of arcs of nature and history and the mystery beyond those. From my perspective now, I agree with the former head of the Board of the school where I used to teach, who, being lapsed Russian Orthodox, said, "I don't believe in God, but I believe in ritual." I don't miss that sort of ritual now, though, despite how much I thought I would. And don't get me started on the political stances taken by the RCC, which I think are immoral.
  11. Hello IAM4TRUTH, hello from a fellow ex-conservative Catholic. Much about my story is different from yours, but probably much is the same. The night I realized I could not go on with the Church anymore, I wept for realizing I couldn't pray the Rosary anymore. How far away that seems now, and how not cool actually to pray the Rosary. One thing one Catholic aspiring priest told me, that I never forgot: "I am just trying to learn how to be a human being." And from the movie, The Devil's Playground, about seminarians: "A whole life is a long time to be unhappy." Rock on, all best for your relation (in love) with your son, and hope to hear more from you. Best, Ficino
  12. Hi Freedwoman, just my experience: I used to think that I could not go on if Christianity turned out to be false. I thought I needed God and Jesus just to exist. But events of life, and failures of the Christian system of thought, eventually brought me out of the cult. And after that, eventually hardships came, like my spouse's stroke and semi-paralysis, my father's disability, cognitive decline and death... and I just put one foot ahead of the other one and did what I had to do. I discovered I didn't need "God." What I needed was the strength within myself - which is what, I think, the God voice was all along - and the help of others. and that's the human condition. At this point it is much more comforting to think that the universe just is what it is, and shit happens, than to think that God is engineering THIS flawed outcome that we see before our eyes. All best, f
  13. Hello gents, no physicist am I, nor philosopher of science. But I thought a scientific theory is not, strictly speaking, proved. I thought it 'shows its mettle,' as Karl Popper put it, the more times it successfully predicts outcomes that are then verified. I.e. it's predicted outcomes of experiments that are verified, but it's not the theory that is verified. ???
  14. Hello Disgruntled, I think "sin" is a theological construct best left at the door. It is Christianity's tool to create a false need, i.e. "I am damned and need to be saved" so that Christianity can then offer [ETA: or "sell you"] the solution to the false need it created. We all do wrong things and we lead better lives as we grow in moral character. To do that does not call for the theological construct, "sin," and in fact I think one's moral character is much firmer when one acts because the thing is good rather than out of fear that God will get you.
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