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ficino last won the day on March 1 2020

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About ficino

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  • Birthday February 26

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    New York, NY
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    literature, philosophy
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    ancient texts

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  • Still have any Gods? If so, who or what?

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  1. Those of us who have been ex-Christians for some time usually run into one or more of these attempts by Christians to explain our deconversion: failed to understand the Gospel and or/wasn't trained right by parents hurt by mean people at church never truly gave heart to the Lord got involved with wrong lover/friends mad at God (usually because of unanswered prayer) trusted in own understanding in a few cases, something like failed to understand St. Thomas Aquinas But they'll say it always boils down in the end to Just Wanted T
  2. You mean the Navigators? Heh heh. I and my friends were in IVCF. Our campus also had Campus Crusade - I can't get my head around calling it Cru.
  3. To me as a gay man in my later twenties, living as a fully believing Christian, eventually God as depicted in Christianity seemed more and more unjust. It would be one thing if I had some unique defect, but for God to set up a world where there were millions of LGBT people and forbid them to find the kind of relationships that were allowed to straight people seemed unjust. Then, when I realized more and more how NT promises about prayer were false, I started to wonder why I believed in the whole system. Eventually the reasons for belief drained away. I probably would have reached disbelief eve
  4. Hello Confused00, and welcome to Ex-Chr. I second what others have said. It's worthwhile hearing from people who have been through some of what you have been through. I have never met anyone from Nepal, however. One of the members of this board, Bhim, is Hindu. His family is Hindu. Bhim went through some years as an evangelical Christian but then got out of it for a number of good reasons. He now expresses support for attempts in India to curtail the influence of Christian missionaries. Bhim may see your message, or you could PM him if your membership here allows you that capabilit
  5. I can think of at least two strategies that some Christians use to wave away Bible contradictions, falsehoods, absurdities, etc. 1. they'll say that the Bible is not God's revelation but is the record of the believing community's encounter with God. They may add that the Bible is not the Word of God but Jesus is the Word of God, and the Bible witnesses to Jesus. I think some liberal Protestants take this "it's a record of revelation, it's not revelation per se" approach. 2. sophisticated members of denominations that claim the Bible is inerrant (e.g. sophisticated Catho
  6. Wow, Jenni, you have been through a lot. A lot that you did not deserve to go through. I am glad you are in such a better position now. You have a lot to discover ahead of you! FWIW a thought about the anger: Aristotle says it's a response to a perceived injustice. There is a lot of injustice in the whole bundle of Christianity as a system. I think it's legitimate for you to be angry against that and the people who profit from its injustices. That is enough to explain your anger, so I don't think you have to feel that you are "mad at God," the way Christians like to accuse ex-Chris
  7. Yes, I went through these stages, too. Toward the end of my time as a Christian, I had stopped praying "for" things. I dimly recall that the last thing I prayed for was for a 28 yr old guy in our Christian group to be healed of cancer. EVERYONE was praying, even little children. Rod died anyway. So eventually I got to the point where I would either just pray praise-type prayers or else "thy will be done" prayers. That faded away. Later I read on some online boards like this that a lot of people "learn" as mature Christians that prayer basically isn't answered. A good number of them wind up con
  8. TruthSeeker0, this is a good article. To me it's ironic that it is written by an evangelical and that the author approvingly cites people like Al Mohler and Ed Stetzer. Mohler opposed Trump in 2016 but quickly backpedaled when Trump became the darling of Mohler's own tribe. Anyway, I agree with the author, and also agree on how there are many elements of especially evangelical Christianity that promote openness to conspiracy theories. I see it in my own relatives.
  9. Hello Georgia, people like me who used to be Christians but are so no longer are often asked whether we left because of bad experiences in church, bad treatment from Christians, disappointment with failures of Christians, and so on. My experiences with people in the churches I attended were pretty much positive. It was the system of teachings and precepts itself that I came to see is not workable.
  10. Good point. I was thinking of how Thomistic types will usually say that faith is an act of the intellect, affirming that certain propositions are true, and then they'll talk about actions as coming from the will, choosing and doing certain things that the intellect has perceived (or falsely believes) are good. But they muddle things when they start talking about "the Mystery of evil" and such.
  11. Great analogy! ETA: though I guess a Christian apologist could say it doesn't hold because mysteries are not about precepts, telling you what or what not to do, but about doctrines.
  12. Hi IAM4TRUTH, a further thought: you might get something out of checking out Sheila C's blog, A Gift Universe, and even commenting and/or sending her a message: http://agiftuniverse.blogspot.com/ Sheila was raised and educated in a very traditional/conservative Catholic background, including college. She now has been blogging mostly about parenting and teaching her kids at home under COVID-19, but she used to post a lot about her reasons for leaving that Catholic system and what she has derived from leaving it. She has a lot of good perspectives, though I think she's yo
  13. Yes, boy do I relate! I never heard of The Alpha Course, but I taught CCD, often served at mass, was often called on to be a lector... I was starting the process of joining a religious order. Good thing I didn't, lol. But like you, there was much I loved even just in the ritual. I loved the way time is structured - the liturgical year, the Hours of the Divine Office, the sense of arcs of nature and history and the mystery beyond those. From my perspective now, I agree with the former head of the Board of the school where I used to teach, who, being lapsed Russian Orthodox, said, "I don't belie
  14. Hello IAM4TRUTH, hello from a fellow ex-conservative Catholic. Much about my story is different from yours, but probably much is the same. The night I realized I could not go on with the Church anymore, I wept for realizing I couldn't pray the Rosary anymore. How far away that seems now, and how not cool actually to pray the Rosary. One thing one Catholic aspiring priest told me, that I never forgot: "I am just trying to learn how to be a human being." And from the movie, The Devil's Playground, about seminarians: "A whole life is a long time to be unhappy." Rock on, all best for y
  15. Hi Freedwoman, just my experience: I used to think that I could not go on if Christianity turned out to be false. I thought I needed God and Jesus just to exist. But events of life, and failures of the Christian system of thought, eventually brought me out of the cult. And after that, eventually hardships came, like my spouse's stroke and semi-paralysis, my father's disability, cognitive decline and death... and I just put one foot ahead of the other one and did what I had to do. I discovered I didn't need "God." What I needed was the strength within myself - which is
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