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Llwellyn last won the day on February 13 2016

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About Llwellyn

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    Neither Athenian, nor Greek, but citizen of the world. ~Socrates
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    Pathei Mathos
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    Happy just the way I am.

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  • Still have any Gods? If so, who or what?

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  1. Praise Cheeses! Now you will have to be especially wise and responsible, as you will be part of the explanation of whatever novel behaviors and thoughts will follow.
  2. I don't think that the West is neutered -- the USA is the third most populous country in the world, and is bristling with armaments that could destroy the entire world. The USA has used them and will do it again. The USA has imposed a language and a way of thinking upon all other cultures. If the standard is "conquest and domination," the West has achieved this supremely. If there is anything like a lull, hiatus, accommodation, or sharing, it's only a further flexing of power in the form of doing what very few other cultures have been willing or able to do. ...and none of what I point out above is a compliment.
  3. Congratulations on your abortion! Congratulations on your divorce! There were no doubt good things about both of them, and they led to consequences that were good. Just because the world is uncertain does not mean that it is unsecure. What if uncertainty -- Quantum Uncertainty, perhaps -- is the fount out of which everything that you cherish, came? OCD sucks, but the route through this hell is carved by coming to welcome uncertainty as your source of comfort. John Dewey wrote: "Man finds himself living in an aleatory world; his existence involves, to put it baldly, a gamble. The world is a scene of risk; it is uncertain, unstable, uncannily unstable. Its dangers are irregular, inconsistent, not to be counted upon as to their times and seasons... Our magical safeguard against the uncertain character of the world is to deny the existence of chance, to mumble universal and necessary law, the ubiquity of cause and effect, the uniformity of nature, universal progress, and the inherent rationality of the universe. Those magic formulae borrow their potency from conditions that are not magical. Through science we have secured a degree of power of prediction and control ... But when all is said and done, the fundamentally hazardous character of the world is not seriously modified, much less eliminated."—Experience and Nature.
  4. Religious ideas don't connect with human experience. They are pure ideas,--vagabond thoughts that tramp the public roads without any human habitation. Any idea that will not enrich human experience can be considered a form of irrelevant, dissipating, and obsessive thought. Unless ideas give you hope, motivation and purpose, they tend toward being pathological.
  5. Aaaaaaaah, FARK. I'm pretty sure that that website had a big part in my deconversion as well. Fark.com is where God dies.
  6. I grew up as a "missionary kid" and went to a Christian university. Deconverting and telling my family about it was difficult, and I definitely don't have the intimacy with them that I used to have. I have new relationships with new honesty that never would have been possible before. I have no regrets, but there are tremendous costs and tremendous rewards. I have no habit of saying something that I don't believe or holding back what I do believe, so continuing in Christianity was simply not an option. I'm happy that I deconverted at age 25, as it was a perfect inflection point for new growth, pruning, and inevitable withering. This will be especially hard for your mother, as no doubt your deconversion will remind her of the divorce and her feelings of loss, etc. Whatever you tell her, say it in love. This is one thing that the best kind of Christians genuinely do, is refer to the ethos of every transmission of information. Every new peice of information demands a price from the person who hears it -- honor that price., e.g.: "Mother, I say this to you in love, there is no God."
  7. Welcome! Thank you for sharing your story -- you are extremely courageous to speak honestly now under the circumstances -- especially with your father. I imagine that if you had a candid conversation with him, you would find that he is not quite as scary as you thought, and maybe you would see him with fresh eyes as the old, limited man that he is. I don't know enough about your life to make concrete recommendations, but perhaps it would be worthwhile to initiated that conversation yourself rather than dread the day he takes the initiative. It could change the dynamic of how that conversation would go? I'm glad to see that you've read some of the posts on this forum, and we hope that you will contribute to our community as well! Happy Sunday!
  8. Shennette -- There's nothing supernaturally miracuolous about your story. I'm sorry, but it's just not remarkable. You are an able-bodied person who knows how to read and write, to reason, use your muscles, and show up at work on time. People like that are very useful in a modern economy, and it is pretty natural that some employer is going to know how to put you to work in order to make shemselves a buck and make you a buck. You are pretty seriously selling yourself short if you think that your relevance to the modern world is a miracle. And if your prior boss had such bad leadership that he couldn't develop you and your skills in order to benefit the company and its shareholders, then of course he fired you. And of course he himself was next out the door on his ass. That's how the economy works -- adapt and rationally manage, or perish. Both of you were recycled out of a disfunctional environment into one that would be more effective at engaging your productive abilities. This isn't a "big testimony" -- this is a commonplace. If you have "no other explanation" you aren't casting about to notic some very plausible explanatory hypotheses.
  9. Wish I had a gig where people would believe me when I told them that Yahweh would curse them if they didn't hand to me their cash. No wonder the churches don't want any of this taxed for other community purposes, like building roads, maintaining a Fire Department, Police Force. It's the biggest racket in America.
  10. Thank you for sharing your experiences! Some edited books collecting deconversion stories are the following. I've read both and can recommend them. "Beyond An Absence of Faith: Stories About the Loss of Faith and the Discovery of Self." "Leaving The Fold: Testimonies Of Former Fundamentalists" Please stick around and contribute to our humble little community. I'm sure your family will get over your rejection of Christianity and family intimacy will return. The Meme is not stronger than vulgar family affection. Even your father will get over it. Congratulations on removing the fetters from your mind. There is nothing so satisfying to a social mammal than to free other mammals that we see enslaved. We free one another: Empathy and Pro-Social Behavior in Rats http://www.researchgate.net/profile/Jean_Decety/publication/51868769_Empathy_and_pro-social_behavior_in_rats/links/02bfe510d7190ca5b9000000.pdf
  11. The solid meaning of life is always the same eternal thing,—the marriage, namely, of some unhabitual ideal, however special, with some fidelity, courage, and endurance; with some man’s or woman’s pains.
  12. Your post reminded me of the High School Prom poster recently being discussed in Social Media. There certainly is a cultural message that exits out there that a woman's personality lies in the hands of other people and not herself. It stands at risk and she depends on other people for the things that are most critical for her... and it all has something to do with a vulva and a penis. ??? I think it is really interesting what you said about your cureiousity about the secular world. I think it is a very human thing to want to understand and make sense of things that are most surprising to you. It is like being an amateur scientist who wants to collect evidence on a phenomenon that seems unexplainable. Your mind will puzzle on it as you wake, and as you sleep, until you develop a new conjecture about all those other (billions) of people. The information you collect will make "justification by faith" less relevant in comparison with "humanistic flourishing."
  13. Grounded -- your way of thinking is a lot like mine -- the thought that all of the infinite possibilities of existence means that we should stick to only the most basic fixation of belief. We believe in naturalism precisely because anything is possible. The key is to belief only those things that serve as devices that work a manageable structure into the flux of experience, and only to the degree that they do. Beliefs, then, are norms governing efficient logical regimentation, and not certainties or absolutes. I'm kind of amazed to hear that your household is such a diverse population in terms of God-belief. I guess it is working out relatively effectively -- glad to hear it! I'm also surprised to hear that your wife is not freaking out when you plant the seeds of critical thought in your 11 year-old. Welcome.
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