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tropicalsq744

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About tropicalsq744

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    I'm a fence sitter

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  • Still have any Gods? If so, who or what?
    Don't know.

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  1. Hi guys. Sorry for being away for soo long. I feel bad for not replying and taking you guys for your concern and supportive postings. I've only been reading the ex-c blog occasionally. I haven't been to church since and feel much freer to "do my own thing". Hell doesn't bother me anymore, although there are still times when I think about it. I've come to realize that I'm a lonely person (ever since I "got serious" with god and neglected making REAL friends) and also that I have a problem with trusting my friends (i've been in the closet all my life) . I'm working on it now, instead of depending on some sky god to be my "best friend". Its funny now, when I recall the times when my christian friends were discussing whether we can live without any friends and only depend on god. I mean, like HELLO! Evolution has programmed us to be social creatures and its not like some guy up in the sky can talk back to you when you need advice amd comfort... I do still think quite a bit on religion and stuff although its much less compared to when I was deconverting.. I think you can call me a seeker.. of truth that is.. I'm still open on whether god exists or not, although i'm definitely not going to be a closed minded fundie like my church used to believe.
  2. Hi Sara. Welcome to ex-christian.net and thanks for posting. I'm going thru the same thing as you are right now. I'm really unsure what I believe/what to believe. It must have really hurt to be rejected by so many "believers" when jesus was the one who commanded us to love others as ourselves. I;m sorry for what you've went thru. Do you have any friends who are not believers who you know you can confide in?
  3. Hi Kurari. Thanks for posting your story. I too do feel weird sometimes armong people (especially strangers). I never really could fit in in church as much as I could with this group of friends from school even though they were quite friendly and stuff. Maybe it's because of my upbringing? I didn't have a partciularly happy childhood. My father would always grumble about our relatives. He wasn't very kind with his words about us (me and my mum) too. Sometimes I feel that has hindered my social life. I guess the most important thing to being accepted is to first accept yourself. I do struggle with low self esteem and at times it really sucks. But having my mum around really helps. I think we also need friends/family who we can talk about our problems and struggles freely without the fear of being looked down on. It really helps you accept yourself when you know that the people closest to you have already accepted you for who you are. Hi Kurari. Thanks for posting your story. I too do feel weird sometimes armong people (especially strangers). I never really could fit in in church as much as I could with this group of friends from school even though they were quite friendly and stuff. Maybe it's because of my upbringing? I didn't have a partciularly happy childhood. My father would always grumble about our relatives. He wasn't very kind with his words about us (me and my mum) too. Sometimes I feel that has hindered my social life. I guess the most important thing to being accepted is to first accept yourself. I do struggle with low self esteem and at times it really sucks. But having my mum around really helps. I think we also need friends/family who we can talk about our problems and struggles freely without the fear of being looked down on. It really helps you accept yourself when you know that the people closest to you have already accepted you for who you are.
  4. Approximately 14% of the population are christians (almost all are fundamentalists, like i meantioned earlier) but they weld a disporpotionate amount of influence in the government. The govt recieved quite abit of flak when it was revealed that they funded a christian ex-gay group under the banner of the freedom of choice. These groups were also invited to talk about sex education at national schools (not just mission schools, seculars ones do invite them). We singaporeans tend to be obedient/conservative. But the younger generation is getting more outspoken about their beliefs. Actually, it doesn't appear to me that the church is forcing me to make a decision. But inorder to move on, they need my decision. I used to help out quite abit in small/cell group meetings.I guess that's why. DOn't get what you mean (i'm coming from the perspective that christians should submit to their authorities). Are you referring to the fundies in america that are putting pressure on the chinese government to grant religious freedom to the christians there? I'll say its not always true. there are genuine ministers out there. Most ministers over here are well to do becuase the church pays them well. My mum once told me that methodists prechers here make the most money. Pentecostals/charismatics also are pretty well off. Almost all of the megachurches here are pentecostal in their theology. The pastor of the largest church here (20k) lives in a posh condo in the central shopping district and drives a BMW. The senior pastor of my church lives in a public apartment (where the majority of the population lives). I don't know about how much he earns though, but from the looks of it, he doesn't earnmuch more than the average churchgoer. My church has about 4000 members. It also surprised me how many lukewarm churchgoers are out there. By lukewarm, I mean those who don't accept all the tenets of christianity. I mean, if you can't fully accept a certian belief system, why continue to practice it? Unless its because of the fear of hell.. Thank you for your advice. I dont think im ready to start severing ties with the church but i definately wont get involved besides going for services. My mum was telling me that the lord told her that there would be a major earthquake that will hit indonesia soon (she didnt think it was the recent one, she felt the lord meant it would be over 9 on the ritcher scale) I don't doubt my mother's honesty, she's a genuine believer though not that well versed/exposed to alternative viewpoints to be skeptical about the bible. SO right now, the skeptical part in me wonders why god didnt tell her when its happenning but the cauious side is asking whDOat if its true. Some months ago my mum met someone on the street who gave her a bible verse which she felt was god speaking into her situation. she didnt know who the person was. i really don't know what to make of that incident. Do you guys think it was supernatural? anyways, i told my youth minister that i didnt want to make a decision yet.. and so another sunday goes by. I told him i'll call him up. Guess i'll be explaining my position to him then.
  5. Yeah. It has been enormously helpful that I have friends who I can talk to. I can't imagine going thru all this without them. (It's not as bad as what you guys have gone through but it ain't fun) Just got back from youth service a few hours ago. One of my friends asked me why I was not so involved in church nowadays and basically I just lied to him. I told him that my tests were coming up soon and I couldn't devote so much time to church activities. I guess it's not so hard to see the real reason why I'm shrinking back from being so involved since I tend to be unrestrained in posting my thoughts as MSN nicknames. It's only a matter of time before I have to be honest with him and everyone else in my church I guess. Frankly, right now, going back to believeing again does not seem so remote though it would be an irrational decision given my opposition to the unjustices of eternal punishment in hell. I mean, if it ain't broke, why fix it? Christianity has let me down in some areas but it hasn't harmed me a whole lot. It just seems like it all boils down whether I want to believe or not. And it seems like if I were not to I'll be damned for all of eternity which is really scary and I might say unjust/irrational. I like the way my church accomodated my questioning (maybe not initially, they really tried to persuade me to stop reading atheistic literature, not because it's demonic though). I felt really open and honest when I sat down with my youth minister and told him that I didn't want to lose my interllectual freedom and that it was unlikely that I could still return to belief since my faith has been erroded to this extent. They didn't judge me or bug me for a debate or treat me like I need all their prayers to straighten out my mind but merely asked me for a decision. That is precisely what I don't want to make right now. But I'm afraid I have to. Right now, I think I'll scout around for some liberal churches in Singapore.. though it's hard to find any in this fundermantalist stronghold. I posted a thread on a local christian forum to but it seems like no one knows. I doubt they have even come across a liberal christian. I think most liberals over here are lurkers. lol. I do know of a church here that affirms gays though.. but it isn't the best idea to join them since I'm not ready to come out to everyone yet.. (I'm gay, or at least am confused with my sexuality) SO tomorrow is sunday and yes, I guess I'll have to give an answer to my youth minister. Untill then, bye! Thanks for all your replies so far. You guys have been really understanding and supportive. I tink ex-christian.net rocks!
  6. Thanks for replying Well. I do have friends outside of church. Not that many but I'm closer to them than those in the church, ironically. They're not into religion though some of them are quite knowledgable on the subject so I can discuss about it with them. Its antagonising to decide whether I want to leave christianity because there are a few leaders in church who poured their life into mine and have been a great help to me. It feels like I'm leaving my family behind..
  7. Hi Mod. I've just posted here. Its not really an anti-testimony because I haven't decided that I don't believe totally. Its more of a rant. Is that ok? There's no preaching or anything of that nature. I'm just telling my lifestory up till where I am now, an agnostic/liberal christian. Or is there a better forum for people who are sitting on the fence? Please advice. Thanks
  8. Hi guys. I don't know if I should post this here but anyway here goes.. I'm really confused right now. Been talking to my church youth leader over the past few weeks but it's really pointless. It seems to me that all that matters right now is whether I want to believe or not. I'm from a fundamentalist pentecostal church (aog) so you can imagine how they reacted when I first told them I was questioning my faith (and leaning on the side of unbelief). I wouldn't say we're those extreme charismatic people who go crazy when the holy spirit "touches" them because I think my church is past that "phase". This is actually the second time I'm questioning my faith. The first time was about a year ago. At that time, I never once imagined myself leaving the church and deconverting. It just seemed such a remote possibility. I came out of that period believing that all I've believed so far was true. Of course, at that time, I was examining it from a skewed christian worldview. I read only popular apologetic books such as The case for a creator and so my faith was left pretty much intact. This time however, I fumbuled onto ex-christian.net and it opened my mind to a whole new perspective. Yeah. And I started reading books from the other side (The end of faith, a history of god) and it made a lot of sense. I'm finding myself questioning even the most fundermental of the faith such as the existance of god. Right now, I don't know if I can still call myself a christian but needless to say if I go back to belief, it will never be the same as it used to be. In the past, I took the creation story literally without questioning its validity but right now it seems more like a good story Moses told his kids to keep them entertained. It's been quite some time since I've been leaning towards the side of unbelief or at least liberal christianity. I had this chat with a presbyterian christian friend of mine some nights ago. He believes that evolution is true, although just microevolution and thinks that the creation story is to be read metaphorically. Throughout our conversation I kept thinking, what about those transitional fossils? I mean fine, god created us and other animals and stuff and let us evolve. But why did it take so long for us to come along? Weren't we created to have fellowship with him? If so, what was his purpose in creating all those unintelligent creatures in the past? And how could you account for the age of the earth? I asked him if he was a liberal christian but he just laughed it off and said he merely thought he was being flexible with bible. I guess people don't like the "liberal" label because it takes away what people think is the surest truth. So back to where I am now.. I was talking to my youth minister last week and I tried to honest with him by saying that I don't want to lose my interllectual freedom. He was like fine, although not in an offensive manner. he's more of the mild type. He refused to debate with me on my questions but merely asked me to tell him my decision on whether I still believe or not. To me, that's just the hardest thing to do. Sometimes, it feels as if I'm choosing whether I wanna be damned to burn in hell or not. I originally came out with my struggles about the faith to another youth minister of mine who was more much more emotionally charged than the one I'm talking to right now. At first, he just kept quiet and let me talk. Then, after a few weeks when it became apparent that I was close to losing my faith, he started taking a more aggressive stance towards me with regards with my curiosity with apostate literature. He started calling evolution crap etc. He's an engineer and thinks that evolution is totally nonsense and thinks that christian apologists who embrace even microevolution have been decieved by the devil. He claims to have read stuff up on evolution but dosen't seem to be that well imformed afterall. I mean, ok some fossils (or all?) are reconstructed according to what scientists think those creatures looked like, but that dosen't disprove evolution. Right now, going to church is just a routine. I only go because my mum wants me to and most of my friends are there. Which also means that if I don't turn up, I'll have many questions to answer. Its all meaningless. I used to enjoy going to church (praise and worship singing, the sermon and fellowship) but now it just seems like there's a great gulf between me and everyone in my church. It just dosen't feel like I'm part of their family anymore. I finally can understand how one my friends must have felt during his time in our church. I was assigned to assimilate him into the church so I'm quite close to him. He came to church with all these questions in his mind about God and all (he was a skeptical believer) but no one actually tried to answer any of them. He often mentioned that he didn't feel like he was part of us but I just dismissed that as a product of his upbringing. When he started to trash them I out with me, I realised that they were really valid and started to find answers for him. That's where I realised that apologetics is quite meaningless and fruitless. There was really no point trying to defend something that was meant to be believed in faith. It all comes down to whether you want to believe it or not. And like I said, thats just the hardest ting to do, or at least, after you've been exposed to so much skeptical literature. After reading many of your testimonies, I realised that maybe I wasn't so strong/deep in my faith after all. I mean, some of you guys went through a long period of trying to hang on to your faith but it surprises me that I didn't put up much of a fight to keep the faith. But I guess that's not the point, because I did believe everything christianity taught and held as true, though, without much questioning. I even did crazy stuff (christians call it radical) like sharing my testimony with my class. (My countrys education system is secular by nature but my school is founded by christian missionaries.) I guess this post is really pointless because you guys can't really decide for me whether I want to believe or not so just take it more as a rant/pity party. I'll end here. Thanks for reading. Just wondering, are any of you guys from singapore?
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