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Everything posted by Prestissimo

  1. Thanks for your responds. I am very affraid you are right. About "getting likes": I wrote this merely to use it as a way of measuring. And I would care to the level that I would find it brilliant that it would at some point in the future be just as great to people as some will receive when you write: "Jesus loves you".
  2. I have a bit of a difficulty expressing my feelings towards religion. I have no sympathy for religion, I think it's dumb, I don't respect people that practice it. And I'm totally ok with how that. What I struggle with is expressing myself. Some people on Facebook (friends(?), family) some of open about their believes. They invite you to a ceremony where their child is baptised (don't know how you call that in english) , or sometimes thank God for , whatever. While this is inoffensive, it's a freedom that is excepted. However, I can't express myself the same way! Whenever I make even the slightest assumption it's cool or ok to not believe in any God it's not accepted. It's easy to notice you'll receive a lot less likes, for other people probably also being afraid to let you know they agree. In real conversation it's even worse, you feel tension rise when the subject comes up and many people just stand back and keep their mouth shut. I tried just to ignore religion, stop talking about, stop talking about it, forget about it. But I can't. I'm constantly triggered by Xtians, or it's old frustration in my mind that needs to be released. It just piles up and I feel no space to regulate my negative feelings in an acceptable manner. The risks are big. It's not just about losing friends, but about job opportunities to. I work as a freelance composer. It's a very small world and I'm very reliant on my reputation. While it is ok to be a christian, it's not ok to be an atheist. I risk, with even the slightest of assumptions that I'm not considered 'to work with', just because of my worldview. Worse, I know I wrote for orchestra's of which some have over 50% believers. I can't even name a piece with a suiting title if that might be offensive, they'll refuse to play it (I know another composer that actually had this happen!). Also, to get jobs, you don't want to be in a position that might turn some people off. THis is what I find so hard. Because it's the wisest think for me to shut up, to only express myself to the people that will have no relation to work, or people I consider friends (and that can go to hell if they don't except me for being an atheist). I'm jealous to christians who can just say whatever they want and are forgiven. And maybe it's not as bad as I think it is, but I don't think I can risk it. I'm in no position that I can afford that people will me turn me down because of my anti-religious feelings. And because of it I feel so much frustration whenever people confront me with their religion in all openness and I can't. I have to be the person that is "open-minded" and 'respectful". but I'm not respectful, and I think it's because I'm open-minded.. Anyway, I can't regulate it now. A few weeks back I wrote about a party I was where a xtian just kept going on and on and I had to debate him to the ground. He was mocking atheists, I couldn't let it happen. In the past I lost friends for outsmarting them on stupid questions. I really don't know how to deal with it. I just don't want to hold it in all the time. I just like to curse whenever I want to, make religious jokes when I want to, mock, be me. And it's damaging if I do. I'm probably not the only one in this situation, I'm curious how other people deal with it. This forum sure is one way.
  3. @lunaticcheathen That's an hilarious turn of events ;-)
  4. Thanks, that was just what I needed. Thanks for putting it in perspective, both of you.
  5. [rant mode on] What does it take to make you shut up? I need to release some steam. I haven't been around on this forum because I wanted to stay clear a bit of religious debates. But it KEEPS BULLYING me. Christians don't ever shut up. Two weeks ago I was at a party, all was nice, after a few beers a christian comes up and starts bragging about his God and how he saved his live. I totally ignored it, not in the mood to debate. Then he was poking fun at atheist.. not really a choice, I had to give him some counter response. Whenever I came with an argument, he would resort to conspiracy theories (like how darwins research was totally funded just to destroy christianity and was all made up), bad science and straw man fallacies. When he was eventually backed into a corner he said he was just a 'simple man' and 'it's a party, I'm not in the mood for debate, I was just saying how great God is'.. ffs.. so frustrating. I watch a youtube video about sports, totally not related to religion whatsoever, and what's the first comment below the film: Bible verse X, Jesus loves you, come to christ.. [etc..]. I skip to another vid, same fucking thing!! The next day I get a flyer in the mail with an invitation to the Church!! A week later a f*cking Jehovah Witness.. I would be fine to NEVER have to think or talk about christianity EVER again, but you christians keep pushing and pushing. And when I debate you, you fall. Because I'm 10 times smarter than you, and did my research. Now fuck off. [/rant mode off]
  6. We should teach alchemy in chemistry class and the Flat-Earth theory in geography if we teach Intelligent Design in schools. I loved how Dawkins dedicated a chapter in "the great show on earth" showing how much "unintelligent" design there really is. There are books full of evidence showing life is not created by a designer, though.. possibly a retarded one.
  7. I think this is an atheist trying to discredit Christians, I've seen it before. Neh, holy spirit told me he was a True Christian™, so it must be right.
  8. Exactly, either accept the OT or don't. If you do, then for the love of God, rape, torture, and murder me and my family as the bible tells you: http://www.evilbible.com/Murder.htm
  9. I had to look up the word "tithing". My God, what a joke. 10%!! How many corrupt people are running churches now? It's a lucrative way to make money! The pentecostal church I went to (in the Netherlands) did go round with a basket in which you could tribute financially to the church, but only if you had the means and felt like it. Nobody judged you for not paying. The average person would throw in €1,- and skip it sometimes. Only some of the richer people would tribute €20,-.. To them that's not even 1%...
  10. Hey, thanks to this topic being bumped I got a chance to read it now. Well written, sad story. Since the letter is now a bit dated, how have things changed for you? You do write about your believe in Jesus, your doubts regarding the existence of hell/heaven. Is that still the case? Are things getting easier?
  11. God is an excuse for everything. My niece couldn't get pregnant for years. Still she believed God wanted her to be a mother. Then she finally was pregnant, God heard her prayer. She lost her child after 24 weeks of pregnancy, hurt her really bad.. But God was confirming to her with this that she was going to get a baby (don't ask me why God had to kill the first one first) Took her awhile to get pregnant again, this time her body terminated the child 16 weeks in. Mean voice in my head telling me God was telling her she is not supposed to get children. Her interpretation: God wants her to have children through adoption. *sigh*
  12. As has been repeatedly shown on this forum, the New Testament is not in harmony with the Old Testament. The New Testament is revisionist theology which contradicts many of the precepts of the Old Testament. There is no salvation in an illegal human sacrifice, nor did Jesus fulfill the requirements of a king messiah. Exactly. @thumbelina I gave you the facepalm because of the above. I'm just not going to waste more energy on you if you are that blinded. It's been said over and over and yet you find it ok to ignore it. Maybe you should read "a history of God" by Karen Armstrong. She was a true Christian™, a nun, who committed her life to God.
  13. I guess my "truth"-filter is working Believer cause the url you posted cannot be found. Or should I not take it literally and follow the suggestions that were made? Twisting and turning to find your 'truth'. Sounds about right.
  14. Great topic! I still enjoy the voice in my head, I did believe once it was God even after the time I was sure the bible God didn't exist... some other God maybe. But mostly it supports a pantheistic idea that I like. To me it's a helpful voice, even if it's fake. It was my guide out of Xtianity.
  15. Sad story, sorry you have to go through this. I learned from cartoons that it's always the bad guys that want world domination and worshipping.. while the good guys are humble. Thus if God requires worship he is in fact evil! There you go, counter fiction with fiction :-)
  16. True, but I'm curious to know how to deal with it. If there is a method to help believers see they are deluded. How did you figure it out in your own experience. Why did you allow logic and reason in the first place?
  17. When I'm discussing with my family about their christian believe, the topic of evidence is unavoidable. How else are we going to convince each other, right? Despite my evidence-based arguments, they always consider my claims are false. No logic and reason, no scientific evidence, nothing can shake their faith. And the reason? The reason is because they HAVE evidence.. Empirical evidence. They experienced God, Jesus or the Holy Spirit first handed. They felt his presence. That's all the evidence they need. How they counter my arguments? The idea's of science have been proven wrong over and over, changed over time, science doesn't give answers with 100% certainty. While the bible does. Every contradiction you find in the bible is just "my misinterpretation on the text". I seriously wonder how to deal with that. Antlerman just wrote a brilliant post about it. Antlerman suggests it's useless to fight a Christian's spiritual experience with logic and reason, but instead acknowledge their experience as real. Our goal should be to show Christians that there are other ways to explain their experience (correct me if I misinterpreted your words Antlerman). I'm curious how you all feel about this. To me this was an eye-opener. Let me start by bringing in my own spiritual experiences into the equation. Since all of you are (ex-)christians, I'm happy to learn your experiences and how you would view these experiences at this point in time. --- I like to start with my christian spiritual experiences. Although I already wrote about them in my testimony, I could put them in a slightly different perspective. In the last years I attended church (age 13-16, half a lifetime ago) I often imagined evil around me while in the church. I sometimes saw people's faces turn evil (as if possessed), and their dumbness was another sign of this evil. It gave me comfort in a weird way.. I was then already seeing what I still see today, empty sheep, followers of a lie. It scared me a little, but also gave me comfort I was not one of them. Sometimes this evil presence was very vivid. I was mostly aware this was my imagination but I enjoyed it too so I let it be.. only at a later age did I consider christians could "see" these kind of Evil in the faces of 'people in need'. The easiest targets for evangelists. To me this was very real, but I never considered for real that I was seeing beings from the spiritual realm. The other negative experience happened slightly before I finally broke with christianity. Easiest to just quote myself here: I was struggling to go to church and had a lot of arguments with my parents about not going to church. I had no choice. I already managed to convince my parents to go less to these Saturday-night meetings. Until one day there was this [christian] camp-thing again. I didn't want to go, I was furious. I explained my parents all my thoughts and they were supportive and still they wanted me to go! I didn't understand my parents. I had no choice, I went. People noticed my fury and tried to calm me. Actually they were quite nice. I heard a minister speak and I liked the guy, he seemed honest.. the entire camp had actually a positive vibe to it. I started singing (I always refrained from singing that crap). At some point I noticed my one hand raised. It felt good. I went home and felt a little changed. I talked to this with my mother and she explained that I felt God that day. Like lightning I awoke the day after more furious than before that camp. This circus had just mind-controlled me! Somehow in a weak moment these people managed to get me to become like them, even though it was all a fraud. The biblical God can't exist, Satan can't be real. What was I thinking?! I felt so stupid for falling into that trap. I refused to go to church since that day (age 16). That last experience is what still infuriates me when I have to deal with the "I experienced the holy spirit"-argument, because I know what it felt like and how someone could think it was a good experience. It's nice when you can stop thinking about the truth and accept the reality around you as the real thing. The easy way out. ... Somehow I have always been a little sensitive to spirituality. Since the christians around me believed that there were more powers out there, I was really curious about other forms of spirituality (although christians considered that occult). My journey went on and I've had way more (personally important) spiritual experiences since. But I keep it vague for now, I'll probably get to it in the discussion to follow. I suppose this is enough for a kick-start. I look forward to hear your stories.
  18. Thank you. I value that. You definitly should start that topic. I would love to have a full thread on this. Please do so. You're welcome. Ok, will do.
  19. @Antlerman Wow, that was a strong argument. I was just going to start a topic asking how to deal with the empirical factor. Most debates end with the Christian saying: "I have 'felt' Jesus, so it's true no matter what you say". You really showed an insightful view on the matter. Thanks!
  20. Have you read it AtoO? You mention the book written by LaVey right? It's quite an interesting read actually. What you should know on this subject: "Satanists do not believe in the supernatural, in neither God nor the Devil. To the Satanist, he is his own God. Satan is a symbol of Man living as his prideful, carnal nature dictates. The reality behind Satan is simply the dark evolutionary force of entropy that permeates all of nature and provides the drive for survival and propagation inherent in all living things. Satan is not a conscious entity to be worshipped, rather a reservoir of power inside each human to be tapped at will. Thus any concept of sacrifice is rejected as a Christian aberration—in Satanism there’s no deity to which one can sacrifice.|
  21. Exactly. Only the righteous will inherit eternal life. The wicked are mortal and WILL die. As BAA once pointed out, Christians don't agree with each other on this subject: http://www.ex-christian.net/topic/48624-the-cross-and-the-resurrection/page__view__findpost__p__721561
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