Realist

I am not being the devil's advocate here ... but I think End has said one or two things here that need some addressing. Whether we like it or not christianity DOES work for some people ... as obviously do other religions! I actually have a sister and brother in law I would feel quite sad if ever they de-converted. They have made it their whole life .... they DO get great joy out of it ... they ARE people who DO live what they preach. For that I admire them! Do I talk christianity with them? No, never! They know I can be as dogmatic with what I believe! (or don't believe would be more correct!) I think they actually have learnt to respect me for my differences too. I think that is maturity ... and those that have been deeply hurt by christianity ... the further one gets away from it .. the wounds do heal, even though the scars may still show. I was already on this site when End turned up ... I used to lock horns big time with him too! I respect him far more than the "hit and run" christians that seem to make it their mission to come here and evangelize and earn their gang patches then fuck off! Whether we like it or not ... End has been one of the VERY few to stick this site out and I am sure has appreciated some of the advice given by members in some of the struggles in life he has faced. Life's challenges can be like a game with no rules ... how we face it is up to the individual! If someone is making a go of it and basically letting you live ... in my opinion ... live and let live! But let some dick come and knock on my door and tell me I am a sinner and off to hell ... that is another story! Watch me react!!

End, Not trying to be picky but do your statements above hold true? The "Professor" has answered your first statement as copied below: "We don't have knowledge of Christ the person, though. We have, at best, third-hand information written hundreds of years after the fact. Nor do we have a "relationship" with the holy spirit, given that there is no compelling reason to conclude it exists." Your "spirit/memory" statement very quickly drops the "memory" equation in your paragraphs above which in reality it is. Why do people who develop Alzheimer's or Dementia often forget people who may even be close to them? I know that from personal experience! Because memory is a brain function purely .. spirit has nothing to do with it! Once you are dead, all those memories WILL be gone too! As to not knowing a person and having as you say a "spirit/memory" relationship? Once again, it is purely something generated in ones own brain. ALL religions generate these same relationships. It is not just special to christianity! By the way End, why do OP's regularly leave you to stand and fight statements they start? I respect you for that! The OP has made himself quite scarce on this posting even though he has been logged on the site very recently! Maybe he is starting to see his relationship IS just a religion after all?

... the problem with your scenario here End, comparing a "real" physical relationship ... a factual one which can involve ALL the human senses with a "belief" relationship is really in no way similar! One is undoubtedly FACT! What christians are NOT prepared (or want) to believe is that OTHER religions have and FEEL these same feelings from their "belief" relationships. Usually of course in christianity it is the "born agains" who keep pushing this "relationship" versus "religion" scenario. It does get a little tiring continually hearing it ... and once again ... being used as a statement of their christian superiority. Let's be plain simple on this ... keep the church (which some christians are stating is religion)out of this (relationship) comparison! The churches (bricks and mortar) just by themselves (just like firearms) are of no harm to society! With religion it is the individuals who "create" these relationships involving all their various faiths and practices that are! By the way I also feel your statement here "Whether or not you have to accept Christ in the end is not my call" comes across a little uppity in my opinion! Why? It is tainted with the christian dig that it is me that will have to account to christ on this! Of course that has no concern to me ... it will not happen ... but it is just the fact that line has been used in your reply!

end ... I would have thought stating one has a "relationship" rather than what is truthfully a "religion" comes across as pretty "uppity" in my opinion! "Us" who have "relationships" are truly in a superior category to those who merely have a religion! We are the truly "saved" ones! They are not!

Plus every other noted dictionary I have ever looked in!

... so if "relationship" is what separates you from being a religion or religious ... maybe some muslims have a closer "relationship" with their god because they are prepared to kill themselves for him! They therefore must have the "true" relationship! Not your lot!

Sugar coat it and call it a "relationship" or whatever they want to! It IS a RELIGION! FACT! The problem I have found, is that to argue with christians, their "beliefs" win over "facts" every time! Indoctrination is a very powerful tool!

.... do you guys REALLY take yourself seriously that you are not a religion??? This truly does show how limited your thinking process actually is! So the Pope is not a Catholic either! 😀

Bloody Protestants heh ... the Catholics ARE god's chosen people after all! 😀😀

... there are and have been a quite a few of us here over the years. I see I am coming up to 12 years on this site! Welcome to you both!

So End ... a question for you? What is the "purpose" in life for a chimp? A dog? A cat? It is absolutely NO different to ours! Once they lose consciousness, as with us, life's purpose is over! There is a vast difference though from "purpose" in life to giving life "meaning." I am copying shelleymak6376 details here. These are examples of what gives her "meaning" to life: "Family, running, hiking, swimming, and champagne"

What a shame now that he ceases to exist in any form or spirit he will not be able to come back and apologise to all the people whose lives he made hell!

... I think Einstein would love being compared to an instrument End! (As do I)

... so from your babble above you are saying to take out of it whatever you want ... you are an Einstein Ironhorse! No wonder we have 30,000+ interpretations of the same book!! Sorry, that was a slur to Einstein!

I have posted this before but to me it gives a good glimpse at why bad beliefs can remain locked in the human mindset: https://www.csicop.org/si/show/why_bad_beliefs_dont_die